Part II of the Breeding Guide

[Peterko]

OK first egg today hatched after 1530 steps, so it´s normal again...so it only occurs on a particular day, but what´s the logic behind this?

after searching through this topic, the first time that this happened to me was on july, the 7th

[freaktron]

Let's go through another breeding attempt i'm at now: a Timid Gastly with a 31 Sp Atk and 31 Speed DV. Currently, I have a Male Gastly with those DVs, but its Attack is also 30, its HP and Sp Def are extremely low (but its Defense is close to flawless), and most of all, it's Adamant. So I just caught a Timid Female Gastly with a 31 Speed DV. That said...

Timid Female Gastly 24/16/19/(27/28)/14/31 + Male Gastly 2/30/28/31/2/31 = ?/?/?/31/?/31 Timid Gastly (? eggs average)

So, how many eggs on average would it take to hatch a Timid Gastly with a 31 Sp Atk and 31 Speed DV if both parents have the 31 Speed and 1 parent has the 31 Sp Atk?

[X-Act]

Originally Posted by Fat freaktron

So, how many eggs on average would it take to hatch a Timid Gastly with a 31 Sp Atk and 31 Speed DV if both parents have the 31 Speed and 1 parent has the 31 Sp Atk?

Part 3 of the breeding guide was written explicitly to answer such questions.

[Flashstorm1]

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

PART II
The Breeding guide

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

B) Running method (E)

Using this method, Pokémon are hatched and checked regularly while having five eggs in your team.

The exact process for Pokémon having egg counter 40 (see the previous section):
1. Take the first egg
2. Bike 66 steps to the left, to Verdanturf town (1)
134 steps to the right, to the stone at Route 118 (2)
134 steps to the left (3)
134 steps to the right (4)
134 steps to the left (5)
134 steps to the right (6)
134 steps to the left (7)
134 steps to the right (8 )
134 steps to the left (9)
134 steps to the right (10)
3. Take another egg, now repeat the process until you have five eggs.

As you start, some of the eggs will hatch before you have five eggs, but after a while, the first egg will then always hatch after you hit (10), exactly two steps before the boy standing on route 118 (seven steps away form the right end of the Breeding route). This is exactly 1279 steps after taking the fifth egg.

Now, go to the MauvilleCityPokémonCenter, choose the option "Deposit" in Lanette´s PC and check the baby (use you level 5 max stats paper) and either release it or, if it looks promising, save in front of the PC and Rare Candy it to get a better view of the IVs.
If the baby has better IVs than one of its parents, deposit the four eggs, get the fifth, switch the baby with the appropriate parent, go to the PC in the Day Care, release the old parent, get the other 4 eggs and continue.

The process for Pokémon having egg counter 20:
Bike 66 steps to the left (1)
134 steps to the right (2)
134 steps to the left (3)
134 steps to the right (4)
134 steps to the left (5)
134 steps to the right (6)

After a while, the first egg will always hatch 31 steps away from the right end of the Breeding route, which is a few steps before the Pokémon Center in Mauville City.

The process for Pokémon having egg counter 10:
Bike 66 steps to the left (1)
134 steps to the right (2)
134 steps to the left (3)
134 steps to the right (4)

Take the next egg. The first few eggs will hatch before you have five in your team, but you have to ride those four lengths (1), (2), (3) and (4) nonetheless. After a while, the first egg will always hatch at the same place. When you´re done with the four lengths, go straight to the MauvilleCityPokémonCenter. The egg will hatch two steps away from the PC.

Using this method, you breed:
-> Around 25 to 26 eggs an hour for egg counter 40 Pokémon. One egg takes approximately 137-140 seconds (2 minutes 20 seconds) to hatch.
-> Around 34 to 35 eggs an hour for egg counter 20 Pokémon. One egg takes approximately 102-105 seconds (1 minute 45 seconds) to hatch.
-> Around 42 to 43 eggs an hour for egg counter 10 Pokémon. One egg takes approximately 82-85 seconds (1 minute 25 seconds) to hatch.

Pros:
1. A large number of eggs is bred.
2. A newly hatched baby can be used as one of the new parents immediately.

Cons:
1. Sometimes, the eggs are not created when you're ready to take another egg. The result is that the next few eggs will hatch earlier than you want. This means you have to oversee the number of lengths you ride, like at the beginning.
2. There is no fix number of lengths for egg counter 5, 15, 25 and 35 Pokémon, so you may find it a bit more difficult to breed those Pokémon using this method.

Don´t use this method when the parents don´t like each other much, as you won´t get eggs at regular intervals. This method is best suited for the final stages of breeding, when you breed for 3 or more perfect IVs using at least parents with 2 flawless IVs (one overlaps), when you don´t need to get a particular nature/ability combination. Most of the time it´s worth even then, as you can get parents with awesome IVs who can then pass IVs to other Pokémon.


C) Mass hatch method

This method consists of three separate stages. First you get a large number of eggs, then you hatch all of them and check them at the end.

Stage One: Getting a number of eggs
You take an egg as soon as it is created. When you have five eggs in your team and the next one is created, deposit all five in a box. Repeat this process until you have at least 25 eggs in a box. Take the parents from the daycare and leave the Pokémon you want to level up there instead.

Stage Two: Hatching all eggs
Withdraw five eggs having approximately the same number of steps walked before deposit (for example #5, #10, #15, #20 and #25) and ride the bike unless all of them hatch. Then deposit the Pokémon, withdraw another five eggs (#4, #9, #14, #19, #24) and hatch them. Repeat the process until all eggs hatch.

Stage Three: Checking all eggs
If you want, first save in front of the PC. This helps if you release the wrong Pokémon by mistake. In the PC, choose the "Move Pokémon" option and go through all of the babies quickly to check if there are any shinies. Get your level 5 max neutral stats paper and check the babies. If you see one that you're aiming for, mark that baby (for flawless IVs I use ring = HP, square = Attack/Defense, triangle = Special Attack/Special Defense, heart = Speed). After you´re done, release all the unmarked babies. Now withdraw five of the marked babies, and save in front of the PC. Rare Candy all five to Level 10 and check their IVs. Continue to Rare Candy the ones that look promising. When you´re done, soft reset, release the ones that didn´t pass the check, and deposit the rest. Repeat the process until you check all of the marked babies.

Pros:
1. A large number of eggs (about the same amount as for the running method) are bred.
2. Other Pokémon can level up during this process.
3. You are able to do other things while riding your bike (like watching TV or surfing the Smogon boards).
4. You don´t lose as much time as with the running method while going to your PC and back - around 30 seconds. For 25 eggs, this means there will be five deposits and five withdrawals. For the running method, you would make 25 deposits. On the other hand, the mass hatch method wastes time while waiting for egg creation and because of some of the eggs being left in the PC.

Cons:
1. The time it takes to complete this method relies a lot on how often an egg is created. That´s why it´s only suited for when the parents get along very well, or get along. Sometimes, it takes around three minutes to get five eggs, sometimes even more than five.
2. Switching parents during this process is impossible. You´ll have to wait until you have hatched and checked all the babies before doing so.

This method is suited for the final stages of breeding, where you go for 3 or 4 flawless IV babies while you have both parents with at least 2 flawless IVs. You can also level up two other Pokémon while you ride the bike.

After reading the guide, I am still having trouble as to which method to use for breeding for my perfect Starmie.

So far my parents are as follows:

Ditto (Timid): 31 SpAtk
Staryu: 31 HP, Spd

After reading this part of the guide, bith suggest that both parents need at least two flawless IVs, and that is not the case. I'm figuring method C is the best option, but would it be better is I caught another Ditto with two perfect IVs? If so, what method should I use then?

Also, please PM me your answer, as I probably won't be going back to this thread very often.

[Edge Of Pain]

nice shiny latias dunk.


Anyway, thanks for the breeding guide, i used to get confused but now it is easy to understand. Awesome!

Now i can start breeding, clone the best stat pokemon i choose on emerald, migrate to d/p, then trade over wifi. Thanks!

by the way, if you have a non shiny pokemon and you breed it, does the baby have a chance of being shiny(and vice verca)?

And, if you have a pokemon with the pokerus virus and you breed it, can you get a baby with the pokerus virus.

i can only imagine a shiny pokemon with pokerus.

thanks for the guide *prints*

[scorchedsky]

Were there any more conclusions about the 230 steps thing? It's been happening to me, only today though. Although I have bred ~100 magikarp in the past week or so...

[X-Act]

So far, no. We're still looking at what might be causing this phenomenon.

[Peterko]

the only thing I´m sure of is that it only lasts a day, which means it won´t happen to you tomorrow

[Orion]

I just wonder something.
I bred a Female Relaxed Pineco with a Ditto, where the Pineco held Everstone. I bred about 20+ Eggs, and none were Relaxed. Then I switched Ditto with a Male Scizor, and got plenty Relaxed (I have managed to breed with the Ditto previously, so it can't be that it's from another region.)
So, my question is; Won't the female Pokemon pass on natures if it's breeding with Ditto? (and, the ditto was NOT holding an Everstone of it's own.)

[X-Act]

This is written explicitly in the guide, but let's repeat for posterity.

Whenever you're breeding with Ditto, Ditto is considered to be the female Pokemon irrespective of the gender of the Pokemon it is breeding with. That means that Everstone will not work if the female Pokemon holds it and breeds with Ditto (but it would work if held by Ditto itself).

EDIT: Quoting from the guide itself:

Originally Posted by Fat Breeding Guide

To be perfectly clear, these are the four different ways to transfer a nature 50% of the time to the baby:

1. A Male Pokémon breeding with a Female Pokémon holding an Everstone results in the baby having a 50% chance of having the same nature as the Female Pokémon.
2. A Male Pokémon breeding with a Ditto holding an Everstone results in the baby having a 50% chance of having the same nature as Ditto.
3. A Female Pokémon breeding with a Ditto holding an Everstone results in the baby having a 50% chance of having the same nature as Ditto. (Even if both the female Pokémon and Ditto hold Everstone, it will still be a 50% chance of the nature being transferred, and it will always be the Ditto nature that is transferred to the baby.)
4. A Genderless Pokémon breeding with a Ditto holding an Everstone results in the baby having a 50% chance of having the same nature as Ditto.

[Orion]

Ah, I see. Well, I read the guide, but that exact point was very unclear, really. That's why I had to ask.

[X-Act]

Okay, I edited that part of the breeding guide to be absolutely clear. :)

[Phoenix_21]

I can't find anything on this subject in the guide, so i thought I'd mention it in case its worth adding to the 'moveset breeding' section.


If you have a really good male parent but you think you might be able to do better, I was under the impression that you have to either keep it and raise it or use it as a parent because if its in the daycare for breeding it will forget the egg moves it has.


Similarly, if you have a really good male with an egg move that you want to breed with two different species of pokemon in its egg group, by the time you've finished breeding the 1st pokemon it will have forgotten that move and be useless for breeding it onto the 2nd pokemon.

However, the pokes in the daycare always forget the moves at the top of their movelist 1st, so if you just periodically remove the parent from the daycare & move the egg move(s) to the bottom of their movelist they continue to forget the useless moves first.

For example, I am currently breeding Eevees with Wish. If get a Triple flawless male but it has 20ish HP/def and I use it to keep breeding, it will forget Wish for Bite @lvl 30. If at any time between lvl 23 (Quick att) & lvl 30 I take the Eevee out of the daycare and move Wish to the bottom of the movelist, it won't ever forget Wish because it only learns 3 moves from lvl 30 onwards.

I think this could be useful when you want to:
A) Keep the moves of a parent that would be borderline-useable for competitive play in tact but still use it to breed, like a back-up plan.
B) Use a Male parent to breed in more than two projects whilst still passing IVs.

Taking an example for (B): If you have a male bulbasaur with 31 sp.att/sp.def/speed + leech seed, you could use this method to breed its IVs and Leech seed onto Abomasnow, Sceptile, Tangela and anything else in its egg groups without having to rebreed the male (thus saving time) regardless of how high the bulba's level gets.


There are other implications for this – I don’t know if this pattern of forgetting the top move is the same in D/P (i don't see why it wouldn't be), but it would be even easier to preserve moves there because you can use the poketech app to tell what level the male parent is and take it out/re-order its movelist when necessary.
Also, even if the moves that are being forgotten would be in the pokes final moveset, you can re-teach them with a Heart scale, which obviously you can’t do with egg/TM moves.
This also works for preserving more than one move; you just have to remove the parent from the daycare centre more often when its at low levels.

[Lorak]

I have heard that recent testing with a male Togetic holding a Light Ball and a female Pikachu with an Everstone had Everstone breeding effects, allowed passing down of Togetic-to-Pichu Egg moves, and Volt Tackle presence, a correction to your Volt Tackle rule.

[The Walrus]

Thank you very much for making this.

I'm currently trying to bring up a good Stallrein, I trained it to level 46, EV'd and everything, modest natured. I thought it was a good poke until I found out that his Attack IV (the stat I didn't need) was 30. His Sp. Atk was like 4 or something. I'm definately going to put more effort into breeding now

[-k0Mbo]

`I've been running into a problem lately,

(D/P) Usually when I breed I get to the man at 510 steps, meaning that the step counter resets. So when I receive an egg, it doesn't reset the other counters because they are reset from the 510. I had a thought that my game is messed up, but someone said no. This only started happening recently, usually I reset my counter every 510 steps, or when I touch the man. Eggs would usually hatch at 255 and 510. Now, I am seeing then hatch at weird numbers like: 230, 360, and 460.

So I ran a test:
Breeding Heracross, your guide said that it will hatch in 3570 steps with Flame Body.
So I took my Magmortar and received a new egg. I reset my step counter and keep walking til it hatched. When the Pokemon hatched, the counter read 3220 (not divisible my 255). I didn't receive any more eggs, and I only had one egg in my party.

Anybody know what happened...?

-----

EDIT: Sorry I didn't read up, so is it just that the Step Counter has changed to 230 for a day...?

[Peterko]

could you tell me what the exact date was when this occurred to you?

anyway, now it´s clear that the 255->230 step counter thing happens on particular calendar days

the first time this happened to me (where I noticed it) was on july 7, 2007, I posted about it in this topic

one year later, a few days ago, it happened again on july 7, 2008, which means that this can´t be a coincidence

other dates where I noticed it during the last 12 month were september 28, 2007 (also posted in this topic) and april 1, 2008 (yeah lol)

whoever else noticed or will notice this, could you please give me the exact date so we can finally clear this thing up and mention it in the guide?

[Toby]

So, we could just abuse the date change and lower the steps required?


Improvement suggestion;

For the repeat balls to unlock, one must: talk to the CEO of the Devon corporation to say you deleiverd the package (and gain exp share) and then, travel to the end of route 116 and talk to the Devon man there to unlock purchasable Repeat Balls in Rustburo.

Just clarifys that up, a few mates of mine who had sped run through the game had skipped that and looked for ages for repeat balls :s

[Vlaric]

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

How many Ditto you need to catch

It actually turns out that the average amount of Ditto you need to catch in order to get six Dittos with one perfect IV, one Ditto for every stat, is 85. You might need less than this, or more, but 85 is the average number of Dittos you'll need to catch. This is slightly less than 3 full boxes of Ditto. To get these six Dittos, all with the nature you want, you’ll need to catch twice this number, or an average of 170 Dittos. You might think that 170 Dittos are a lot, but remember that you need to do this only once (it only takes a few hours) and then always use these Ditto whenever you need to breed.

I'm kind of unclear on this. Is it catch 170 Dittos=done with catching Dittos for IVs+all natures, or do I have to catch 170 dittos with a synchronize pokemon to get the IVs I want with that nature?

[RavageX9]

I've just started the whole IV breeding thing, and this guide has been immensely helpful! Thanks so much.

[X-Act]

Originally Posted by Fat Vlaric

I'm kind of unclear on this. Is it catch 170 Dittos=done with catching Dittos for IVs+all natures, or do I have to catch 170 dittos with a synchronize pokemon to get the IVs I want with that nature?

You need to catch an average of 170 Ditto using a Synchronised Pokemon.

[Arcaseven]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

could you tell me what the exact date was when this occurred to you?

anyway, now it´s clear that the 255->230 step counter thing happens on particular calendar days

the first time this happened to me (where I noticed it) was on july 7, 2007, I posted about it in this topic

one year later, a few days ago, it happened again on july 7, 2008, which means that this can´t be a coincidence

other dates where I noticed it during the last 12 month were september 28, 2007 (also posted in this topic) and april 1, 2008 (yeah lol)

whoever else noticed or will notice this, could you please give me the exact date so we can finally clear this thing up and mention it in the guide?

I fast-forwarded my in-game clock to July 7th, 2009 and then bred a Magikarp. Using the step counter in-game, I got approximately 1,020 steps (with a Magcargo in my party). 1,020/255 = 4 cycles, down from the base egg step count of 1,280 steps as listed by Serebii (5~ cycles). I presume this would be because of the Magcargo, nothing more - although I honestly don't know if Magcargo is factored into the Serebii step counter.

I then re-wound the game clock back to July 7th, 2008 and did the exact same thing again. I got the exact same number - 1,020.

I couldn't find the number of steps required to hatch a Magikarp with a Magcargo, and quite frankly I'm a "C-average" math student, so if someone could provide me with the number of steps required to hatch a Magikarp egg with Magcargo in your party that would be fantastic.

[Peterko]

well I´ve changed to clock back to one of those days, took an egg which was alredy created and hatched it, nothing unusual in the number of steps needed...I have to research this a bit more this weekend, maybe the egg has to be created on the day or I have to take more than a number of eggs...I don´t know

well, magikarp is egg step counter (ESC) 5 so it goes like this in DP:
- take egg, ESC = 5
- walk/ride 255 steps, game checks if ESC is 0 or lower (nope) -> ESC -2 (if magma armor/flame body is in effect, otherwise -1), current ESC = 3
- walk/ride 255 steps, game checks if ESC is 0 or lower (nope) -> ESC -2, current ESC = 1
- walk/ride 255 steps, game checks if ESC is 0 or lower (nope) -> ESC -2, current ESC = -1
- walk/ride 255 steps, game checks if ESC is 0 or lower -> ESC equals to or is lower than zero, egg hatches

1020 steps with a magma armor/flame body pokémon in your party
1530 steps without

if the "230 step thing" applies

920 steps with a magma armor/flame body pokémon in your party
1380 steps without

[Dunk]

I plan on breeding a Modest PorygonZ with a Relaxed Porygon2.

I have two questions:

1) Is this even possible?

2) If it is possible, would making the Modest Porygon-Z hold an Everstone have any effect on the nature of the offspring?