Cyclohm Analysis Workshop - Page 3

Beej · Jun 12th, 2009, 8:11:57 PM

Okay, let me just say that I think there should be absolutely NO physical sets in the analysis. Even mixed is stretching it. There is no reason to resort to Volt Tackle at all, considering its only benefit is that it does more damage to Blissey while Thunderbolt basically hits everything else harder and is a much more reliable attack in general. The Curse set sacrifices a tremendous amount of attacking freedom entirely for the sake of gimmick.

Volt Tackle should be OO and Curse probably shouldn't be mentioned at all.

Umbreon Dan · Jun 12th, 2009, 9:14:59 PM

Seconding what Beej said; I've had zero success with a Dragon Dance set (any bulky Ground walls it) while if you start cursing then your opponent can easily switch in their own Cyclohm and Draco Meteor your ass off. Mixed sets are sort of "meh", as they don't break any serious walls.

Plus · Jun 13th, 2009, 1:06:40 AM

I don't see why people are really getting all shits and giggles about taking down Blissey. A shitload of things deal with Blissey in OU; it's a complete waste of potential on cyclohm.

benthenoob · Jun 13th, 2009, 3:06:22 AM

I haven't tested since the first week - and I know it can't pressure stall - but I really liked sub/slackoff/toxic/thunderbolt sets when paired w/ something like Dugtrio.

404 subs w/ plenty of EV's to spare to invest into whatever stat you'd like.
I think it's at least other options worthy

Umbreon Dan · Jun 13th, 2009, 3:08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat benthenoob

I haven't tested since the first week - and I sub/slackoff/toxic/thunderbolt

This sounds decent enough now, but I don't think it will be viable at all when Fidgit comes back on the ladder, so I don't believe it deserves a set.

zarator · Jun 13th, 2009, 5:30:03 AM

Should we implement other CAPs in Cyclohm's Team Options and Counters sections?

**Stellar** · Jun 13th, 2009, 11:28:45 AM

I noticed that the Bulkohm EVs were pretty bad and tried to achieve certain things that aren't exactly "feasible", so I'm working on engineering better EVs for the set atm. Everyone on IRC agreed with the EV change and the removal of Surf in favor of Flamethrower, so I'll update this post in a bit once I get everything sorted out.

[SET]
name: Bulklohm
move 1: Discharge / Thunderbolt
move 2: Dragon Pulse
move 3: Flamethrower
move 4: Slack Off
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Shield Dust / Static
evs: 188 HP / 204 Def / 108 SpA / 8 Spe

Is the new bulkohm spread and set. I'll write up comments later.

benthenoob · Jun 13th, 2009, 11:49:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Umbreon Dan

This sounds decent enough now, but I don't think it will be viable at all when Fidgit comes back on the ladder, so I don't believe it deserves a set.

That may be true. Stupid Fidgit =p

Caelum · Jun 16th, 2009, 12:37:01 PM

Eh, I'm bored right now.

I'll fix grammar issues later if no one else comes along (I'd prefer to just edit it in myself, but I can't heh. I'm not used to reading analysis without being able to edit them =/). Anyway, you don't actually list both abilities with an ability tag if they are both viable (particularly if you have a discussion section in the analysis). That's if you're trying to mimic the Smogon style anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat First Set

evs: 200 HP / 56 SAtk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Cyclohm's bulk, Speed, and type coverage work well together on this set. The 212 EVs invested in HP allow Cyclohm to reach an HP stat of 407, an excellent number for Life Orb since the recoil damage is rounded down, as well as allowing Cyclohm to better take various hits. On the other hand, the 252 Speed EVs allow Cyclohm to outspeed Adamant Lucario, and let Cyclohm speed tie with max Speed Mamoswine. The rest of the EVs go into Special Attack, which, though not receiving the heavy investment given to HP and Speed, is still enough to deal plenty of damage. Draco Meteor, Thunderbolt, and Hydro Pump provide Cyclohm with excellent neutral coverage, allowing Cyclohm to keep itself healthy by packing Slack Off as well.</p>

These EVs seem incredibly arbitrary. Since Cyclohm is utilizing Slack Off for some survivability, the Life Orb recoil number isn't that significant. There are bizarre scenarios that could probably justify it, but you should be using Slack Off before you get to the point where the minute HP difference from Life Orb recoil even makes a difference. It would be more useful to find a special attack number that guarantees a few important KOs and put the rest in HP. With Life Orb, this is primarily offensive and the EVs should really reflect that.

Also, your set comments should justify why Hydro Pump is necessary. Why are we foregoing a 95-base power, 100% accurate move? You need to address if it guarantees some KO like against Heatran, Tyranitar etc.

Quote:

[SET]
name: SpecsOhm
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
move 4: Flamethrower / Overheat
item: Choice Specs
nature: Modest
ability: Shield Dust / Static
evs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spe

On a Choice Specs set you should either be constantly spamming Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt; unless you predict what is coming and you know something that resists it. In the case of the Fire-move, you are basically just looking to take out Steel-types (Pyroak is neutral to it and Celebi just barely takes a Specs Draco Meteor), and you nearly OHKO or do OHKO every Steel-type (252 HP Metagross can survive like 12% of the time after SR) with a Specs Flamethrower; so why use Overheat with it's less than perfect accuracy and -2 drop? From your comments, it appears the Water-move is dependent on your choice of fire move so I see no moveset issues with just removing it since it has no obvious value.

tennisace · Jun 16th, 2009, 1:37:46 PM

Quote:

On a Choice Specs set you should either be constantly spamming Draco Meteor / Thunderbolt; unless you predict what is coming and you know something that resists it. In the case of the Fire-move, you are basically just looking to take out Steel-types (Pyroak is neutral to it and Celebi just barely takes a Specs Draco Meteor), and you nearly OHKO or do OHKO every Steel-type (252 HP Metagross can survive like 12% of the time after SR) with a Specs Flamethrower; so why use Overheat with it's less than perfect accuracy and -2 drop? From your comments, it appears the Water-move is dependent on your choice of fire move so I see no moveset issues with just removing it since it has no obvious value.

Spamming Hydro Pump when it first comes out is usually the best strategy imo, I've swept entire teams like that because nobody switches in Grass/Water types first. People go straight to TTar or a steel type like Scizor (not counting Blissey, but you can't do much about Blissey).

**Stellar** · Jun 16th, 2009, 2:03:18 PM

Just letting everyone know that I'm planning to go back through and make sure everything is corrected and such when all the comments have been somewhat finalized.

TAY · Jun 16th, 2009, 2:33:32 PM

Closed at the request of some CAP bigwigs.

Jun 12th, 2009, 8:11:57 PM	#51
Beej Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 574	Okay, let me just say that I think there should be absolutely NO physical sets in the analysis. Even mixed is stretching it. There is no reason to resort to Volt Tackle at all, considering its only benefit is that it does more damage to Blissey while Thunderbolt basically hits everything else harder and is a much more reliable attack in general. The Curse set sacrifices a tremendous amount of attacking freedom entirely for the sake of gimmick. Volt Tackle should be OO and Curse probably shouldn't be mentioned at all. __________________ http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...000/carsig.png Current high score in Robot Unicorn Attack: 93112

Jun 12th, 2009, 9:14:59 PM	#52
Umbreon Dan Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,184 kiss my ass, this is a holy site.	Seconding what Beej said; I've had zero success with a Dragon Dance set (any bulky Ground walls it) while if you start cursing then your opponent can easily switch in their own Cyclohm and Draco Meteor your ass off. Mixed sets are sort of "meh", as they don't break any serious walls. __________________ 9.9 dan likes to ramble <@Fatecrashers> im really gay <@Fatecrashers> and i might fart rainbows

Jun 13th, 2009, 1:06:40 AM	#53
Plus EAT A DICK Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 956 New Jersey	I don't see why people are really getting all shits and giggles about taking down Blissey. A shitload of things deal with Blissey in OU; it's a complete waste of potential on cyclohm. __________________

Jun 13th, 2009, 3:06:22 AM	#54
benthenoob Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 57	I haven't tested since the first week - and I know it can't pressure stall - but I really liked sub/slackoff/toxic/thunderbolt sets when paired w/ something like Dugtrio. 404 subs w/ plenty of EV's to spare to invest into whatever stat you'd like. I think it's at least other options worthy Last edited by benthenoob; Jun 13th, 2009 at 11:12:54 AM.

Jun 13th, 2009, 5:30:03 AM	#56
zarator Don't cry, little one Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,450 Italy	Should we implement other CAPs in Cyclohm's Team Options and Counters sections? __________________ http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...st-d3bs11p.png

Jun 13th, 2009, 11:28:45 AM	#57
Stellar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,264	I noticed that the Bulkohm EVs were pretty bad and tried to achieve certain things that aren't exactly "feasible", so I'm working on engineering better EVs for the set atm. Everyone on IRC agreed with the EV change and the removal of Surf in favor of Flamethrower, so I'll update this post in a bit once I get everything sorted out. [SET] name: Bulklohm move 1: Discharge / Thunderbolt move 2: Dragon Pulse move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Slack Off item: Leftovers nature: Bold ability: Shield Dust / Static evs: 188 HP / 204 Def / 108 SpA / 8 Spe Is the new bulkohm spread and set. I'll write up comments later. Last edited by Stellar; Jun 14th, 2009 at 11:49:55 AM.

Jun 16th, 2009, 2:03:18 PM	#61
Stellar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,264	Just letting everyone know that I'm planning to go back through and make sure everything is corrected and such when all the comments have been somewhat finalized.

Jun 16th, 2009, 2:33:32 PM	#62
TAY You and I Know Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,543 San Diego, CA	Closed at the request of some CAP bigwigs. __________________ ...said the Mock Turtle, "why, if a fish came to me, and told me he was going a journey, I should say 'With what porpoise?'" "Don't you mean 'purpose'?" said Alice. "I mean what I say," the Mock Turtle replied in an offended tone. And the Gryphon added `Come, let's hear some of your adventures.'