IMPORTANT: LC Analyses on hold

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Sep 15th, 2009, 1:22:52 AM

Due to the changes implemented by HGSS, it is clear that any analyses written will have to be reqritten once the metagame settles. Considering that the HGSS changes should be added to Shoddy Battle soon, it makes no sense to continue to write antiquated analyses. Originally this was going to apply only to Pokemon who either:

1: had sets added or modified in HGSS

2: had largely different counters in HGSS

However, given jumpluff's latest revelation regarding Berry Juice, it is clear that some testing will be required. Therefore, LC analyses will be delayed while testing can occur.

Once HGSS' changes are implemented, we can get underway on some exciting work, such as tests/votes on the tiering of Gligar and Misdreavus, as well as more analysis work and potentially a Smogon University based LC Ladder on Shoddy Battle 2!

Heysup · Sep 24th, 2009, 9:55:48 AM

I think most Pokemon are ready for the hg/ss sets to be added, as they have all been tested (except for Berry Juice sets, but that will honestly just replace Oran). Especially on Pokemon like Paras who just one quick line in OO for his addition....

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Sep 24th, 2009, 11:52:25 AM

I think you don't realize just how important Berry Juice is. A lot of the metagame depends on "2ko through oran berry", which is a concept that no longer exists. As such, analyses remain on hold until Berry Juice is implemented and tested.

**Deck Knight** · Sep 27th, 2009, 9:50:05 PM

I just want some clarification here.

Currently we have HGSS implemented on CAP Server, where the LC Ladder resides. Berry Juice is not implemented and will, at the very least, be an immediate suspect item.

Take any Oran Berry analysis. Every single solitary pokemon with Oran Berry as an option will change to Berry Juice.

Berry Juice:

a) Heals twice as much HP, including the HP of pokemon that Oran could not get to 100%, notably Munchlax, Misdreavus, and Gligar, as well as lesser used High HP pokemon like Phanpy and Rhyhorn.
b) is not susceptible to Bug Bite or Pluck.
c) Requires a OHKO to bypass. Unlike Oran Berry, which would allow hits of 75-80% to KO through Oran Berry, Berry Juice will necessitate a OHKO. If you did 21 Damage to a 23HP Pokemon, Oran berry would leave them with 12 HP, within KO range. Berry Juice would restore them to 22 HP, allowing them to always survive another attack.

In short it has all the advantages of Oran Berry with twice the power and none of the situational drawbacks.

I do not believe this item deserves open play. As such I am asking for clarification on whether we can continue with HGSS analysis.

eric the espeon · Sep 28th, 2009, 3:58:33 PM

Berry Juice is being discussed in this thread, the decision about whether to test it and the results of any test will affect any delay in analysis restarting.

Banryu · Oct 18th, 2009, 1:21:27 AM

Now that Berry Juice has been officially banned, can we get back to this now...?

little gk · Oct 18th, 2009, 1:34:47 AM

They're still on hold as we still have to test our suspects from HGSS

Banryu · Oct 18th, 2009, 1:49:27 AM

Oh. Sorry. (delete these, I guess...?)

Heysup · Oct 18th, 2009, 1:52:17 AM

I think we should be able to continue too be honest, we have had plenty of time to play the regular HGSS metagame without Berry Juice before it was implemented.

Sep 15th, 2009, 1:22:52 AM	#1
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	IMPORTANT: LC Analyses on hold Due to the changes implemented by HGSS, it is clear that any analyses written will have to be reqritten once the metagame settles. Considering that the HGSS changes should be added to Shoddy Battle soon, it makes no sense to continue to write antiquated analyses. Originally this was going to apply only to Pokemon who either: 1: had sets added or modified in HGSS 2: had largely different counters in HGSS However, given jumpluff's latest revelation regarding Berry Juice, it is clear that some testing will be required. Therefore, LC analyses will be delayed while testing can occur. Once HGSS' changes are implemented, we can get underway on some exciting work, such as tests/votes on the tiering of Gligar and Misdreavus, as well as more analysis work and potentially a Smogon University based LC Ladder on Shoddy Battle 2! __________________

Sep 24th, 2009, 9:55:48 AM	#2
Heysup GO JETS GO Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,090 CanaJew	I think most Pokemon are ready for the hg/ss sets to be added, as they have all been tested (except for Berry Juice sets, but that will honestly just replace Oran). Especially on Pokemon like Paras who just one quick line in OO for his addition.... __________________ f u, v

Sep 24th, 2009, 11:52:25 AM	#3
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	I think you don't realize just how important Berry Juice is. A lot of the metagame depends on "2ko through oran berry", which is a concept that no longer exists. As such, analyses remain on hold until Berry Juice is implemented and tested. __________________

Sep 27th, 2009, 9:50:05 PM	#4
Deck Knight Jigen Makkoto Moderator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,843 Massachusetts	I just want some clarification here. Currently we have HGSS implemented on CAP Server, where the LC Ladder resides. Berry Juice is not implemented and will, at the very least, be an immediate suspect item. Take any Oran Berry analysis. Every single solitary pokemon with Oran Berry as an option will change to Berry Juice. Berry Juice: a) Heals twice as much HP, including the HP of pokemon that Oran could not get to 100%, notably Munchlax, Misdreavus, and Gligar, as well as lesser used High HP pokemon like Phanpy and Rhyhorn. b) is not susceptible to Bug Bite or Pluck. c) Requires a OHKO to bypass. Unlike Oran Berry, which would allow hits of 75-80% to KO through Oran Berry, Berry Juice will necessitate a OHKO. If you did 21 Damage to a 23HP Pokemon, Oran berry would leave them with 12 HP, within KO range. Berry Juice would restore them to 22 HP, allowing them to always survive another attack. In short it has all the advantages of Oran Berry with twice the power and none of the situational drawbacks. I do not believe this item deserves open play. As such I am asking for clarification on whether we can continue with HGSS analysis. __________________ [17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me? [17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner [17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol [17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either [17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages [17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod. [17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal. [17:57] <Birkal> >:\|

Sep 28th, 2009, 3:58:33 PM	#5
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Berry Juice is being discussed in this thread, the decision about whether to test it and the results of any test will affect any delay in analysis restarting. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Oct 18th, 2009, 1:21:27 AM	#6
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Now that Berry Juice has been officially banned, can we get back to this now...?

Oct 18th, 2009, 1:34:47 AM	#7
little gk [23:23] <&Bedkal> I will quit everything I do on smogon Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,494	They're still on hold as we still have to test our suspects from HGSS __________________

Oct 18th, 2009, 1:49:27 AM	#8
Banryu Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,506	Oh. Sorry. (delete these, I guess...?)

Oct 18th, 2009, 1:52:17 AM	#9
Heysup GO JETS GO Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,090 CanaJew	I think we should be able to continue too be honest, we have had plenty of time to play the regular HGSS metagame without Berry Juice before it was implemented. __________________ f u, v