Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

[Peterko]

almost too painful to even read, tripping on the forelast step in the factory ._.

Originally Posted by Fat Phiddlesticks

Peterko are you sure trainers 15-20 can't use set1 Pokemon? Maybe if you still have <7 swaps or something. I dunno I swear I've fought set1s in 15-20. Also Thorton can also use legendaries (obviously), but any non-legendaries he uses will always be set4

I am not sure, but I´m sure...ugh I mean I clearly stated I´m swapping each and every time, so the thing I posted is correct from my viewpoint...I have no clue at this point what I face if I hadn´t swapped all the time

if you give me proof, I´m fine

Originally Posted by Fat Phiddlesticks

ALSO Peterko I like how you complain about the factory being "all about the pokemon you get/swap" yet you got both Gyarados4 AND Salamence4 in your starting 6 in a 15-21 set as well as Weavile4/Nidoking3 in a different 15-21 set, not to mention the Sceptile4/Staraptor3 which is solid other than the Ice weak :p

yes I got them because I´m swapping like crazy, but that doesn´t change the fact that the statement is true lol, the factory is about what you randomly get

Originally Posted by Fat Phiddlesticks

In the set with Weavile/Nidoking/MysteryPKMN3 against Thorton I would have probably just traded Weavile for Mr. Mime3 or at least Metagross, but I'm sure you realized what you could have done differently and hindsight, 20/20, etc

I still lose because Thorton is a cheater / that milotic is awful for anyone, unless you hit it with a bolt or something before it goes on a DT marathon...I really thought I could win the round easily with those intimidaters, see I didn´t even get to Thorton...the skarmory battle was awful and noone can win against the QC wailord in "his" hands anyway (I remember he once beat my with whiscash getting 2 OHKOs I think)...

IMO everyone can call the fucktory whatever he/she wants

[Phiddlesticks]

Swapping like crazy gave you two set4 Pokemon in your 15-21 starting 6. Luck gave you two of the best set4 Pokemon in your 15-21 starting 6

Also I think you are getting two streaks mixed up. The one I was talking about was the one with Weavile/Nidoking/MysteryPKMN3 where Thorton was leading with Skarmory4 and it has nothing to do with Milotic. I'm just saying I would have traded for Mr. Mime because Skarmorys (sets 2 and 4 especially) are always a pain to deal with and I would have wanted to get rid of it ASAP.

[Jumpman16**]

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

That's good reasoning there - thanks for the advice. So I'm assuming you never had the situation of Garchomp dying and then having to start setting up Drapion against a QC OHKO poke? If so, that's pretty lucky by 1000. Then again, your posts have suggested that you almost try to set up Drapion over Garchomp, since in an emergency Chomp can still set up on non-Ice-move pokes enough to kill most things. So, against a Tricked Electric move would you still choose Drapion over Chomp?

nah i've never tried that because i'm confident enough that even if garchomp goes down mesprit will be able to hamper the offending poke enough to give drapion a good chance to win...i never lost fully setup chomp toanything though so oh well

So, is the Munchlax idea purely theorymon, or did you ever try that out? Probably not since you said "F**k the hall" somewhere.

theorymonunder the premise that you would fight NFEs but statistics are statictics, my starmie faced munchlax enough in battles 1-14 or whatever for me to see just how specially bulky that thing is

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

Yeah, that's the same reasoning I go by, but somehow Jumpman managed to get to 1000 with that move... I'm not sure how often he used it or what his average number of Flashes before dying/switching was...

i use it an awful, awful lot...like with cresselia most battles would go trick/attack, attack/tw, reflect/attack or flash/attack. im talking every signal beam, most shadow balls, most crunches, flash would always see use. and i never made it a point to switch cresselia out unless i was running out of "time" to get latios or scizor set up. now with team drapula, mesprit tricks things like surf and ice beam and paralyzes to get at least one flash off, still the best and most reliable way any team can deal with special attacks (i'm aware of memento but i wouldn't use it even if mesprit learned it.

physical attacks that would otherwise be a problem i just charm and make a non-issue because of drapion but stuff like double edge and wood hammer i would rather miss than hit so the pokemon doesnt do more damage to itself than i want it to. and stuff like hypnosis and leech seed and will o wisp that i lock them into, i have a chance to influence them with flash when trying to set up garchomp. i basically use flash in almost every battle, which is why i questioned peterko months ago about how often he used recover because i still think i get more mileage out of flash than he ever did with recover

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

who creates pokémon sets with zero attacking moves? that´s true pokétrolling at its finest

to be fair, i'm sure your tower AI felt the same way about your latias during your streak...

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

it fucking crits.













but sunny day was in effect so i won! HEH

lol well done, i had forgotten about sunny day entirely. sucks about 47 though...like, really sucks. "lol factory"

[Sixfortyfive]

I've had most of the following records for a while, so I've forgotten a lot of details regarding how I lost in most of the facilities. This team has a rather severe ice weakness though, so I'm going to bet that that had a big thing to do with most of those losses that I don't remember.

My goal when starting this streak was just to get the colored prints from each facility, the 100-streak star for my trainer card, and the 50-streak ribbons for my starter. I basically just copied Samhain Grim's team and strategy, as I had already bred a similar Gengar and Garchomp and could easily replicate his performance. Team info first, records below:

Togekiss
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Calm
IVs: 29/31/15/31/19/7
EVs: 255 hp, 255 spdef
~ Air Slash
~ Aura Sphere
~ Thunder Wave
~ Roost

Team lead for the Tower/Arcade/Castle (single). Paralyze, flinch, stall, win. If the opponent sends out an electric type, switch to Garchomp.

Gengar
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 28/27/31/30/31/31
EVs: 6 hp, 252 spatk, 252 speed
~ Shadow Ball
~ Thunderbolt
~ Focus Blast
~ Destiny Bond

Team lead 1 for doubles. Kill whatever possible, then Destiny Bond.

Garchomp
Item: Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 4/31/24/31/29/31
EVs: 6 hp, 252 atk, 252 speed
~ Aerial Ace
~ Earthquake
~ Outrage
~ Swords Dance

Team lead 2 for doubles. A fast Earthquake + Levitate combo wipes out so many CPU doubles teams that things really go by rather quickly. Outrage was usually only used as a last-shot desperation move when 'Chomp was at low HP. Aerial Ace and Swords Dance were hardly used at all, and if I were to do this all over again I'd probably replace them with something else.

Torterra
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 12/30/4/23/19/21
EVs: 252 atk, 6 spdef, 252 speed
~ Earthquake
~ Wood Hammer
~ Stone Edge
~ Crunch

My in-game starter converted to an adequate battler. He was only used for doubles games and in specific milestone streaks in the Tower in place of Garchomp. My goal was to collect all 39 possible Sinnoh ribbons for him including those earned from the Battle Tower, so I'd bring him in when facing the Tycoon or when reaching the relevant 50-streak milestones. While his speed is a significant drawback, he didn't do so bad.

Records (all on Platinum):

Battle Tower Single: 116 (Togekiss, Gengar, Garchomp/Torterra)
Battle Tower Double: 61 (Gengar, Garchomp, Togekiss, Torterra)
Battle Tower Multi w/CPU: 67 (Garchomp, Torterra)
Battle Tower Multi w/Friend: 50 (Gengar, Garchomp, Togekiss, Torterra)
Battle Tower Wifi: 15 win streak + Rank 5 (Togekiss, Gengar, Garchomp/Torterra)
Battle Factory Single/Open: 51
Battle Arcade Single: 50 (Togekiss, Gengar, Garchomp)
Battle Castle Single: 50 (Togekiss, Gengar, Garchomp)

Notes:

Tower Doubles - In my loss, the opponent used a Latias and I kind of panicked, focusing too much on killing it quickly as possible and not thinking things through very clearly. The match was over once the opponent's Starmie froze my Togekiss before it was able to do anything. Video of this battle: 76-46244-32839

Tower Multi w/CPU - I basically just go for the Earthquake + Levitate combo with either Mira (Special Attack) or Marley (Speed). EDIT: Just finished this streak at 67 wins. Video ID is 14-97385-47262. Highlights of this loss include: me forgetting to put Life Orb on Torterra, me forgetting that one of my two teammates did not have an EQ immunity, my ice weakness catching up to me again, and Mira basically playing like an idiot.

Tower Multi w/Friend - I did this streak by myself using a friend's DS and his copy of Diamond with my Platinum copy serving as the host. Same exact strategy as my Tower Doubles run, but I purposely ended the streak after the 50th match because I was afraid of losing the streak to a communication error, which had already happened twice in prior attempts.

Tower Wifi - This team really doesn't fare too well against the wifi teams, so I'd rarely win more than 1 streak in a row. I quit after reaching Rank 5.

Factory - Worthy of its reputation as the most frustrating facility in the frontier. I finished this record a long time ago so I don't remember how I lost, but I do remember that I got lucky by receiving a Latios at the very beginning of my 7th streak and basically just demolishing almost everyone including Thornton with it. After obtaining the colored print, I stopped painstakingly using the reference material in the OP to research my opponents' teams and just played blind to a quick loss.

Arcade/Castle - Basically used the same strategy for the Tower, stopped caring once I got to 50 and started playing sloppy. I think I was way too conservative with CP in the Castle.






Again, sorry that these descriptions are light on details. I didn't bother posting them when most of these were recent because they were just retreads of Samhaim's team and strategy. I only just noticed that there aren't many records for some of the Tower game styles and decided I may as well just post mine to put something up there.

[DrDimentio]

Platinum Battle Tower Single Record: 293 - Unfortunately 20 wins short of my previous record, but this time using a more 'unique' team.

Typical video of the loss (in my usual style): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGhu3pdv40U - the video's YouTube URL starts with 'GG' - that's the second time the site has paid me out (one of my other videos starts with 'Ass')

Team: Togekiss, Registeel, Garchomp



1. Togekiss (shiny)
Name: CritMagnet
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
IVs: 31-x-31-31-31-31
Level 50 Stats: 192-54-127-140-135-132
- Trick
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- Charm


*Even before Jumpman's brief mention of Togekiss when he discussed why he chose Mesprit over other potential Trick leads, I had thought of Togekiss and knew it had potential.
*Jumpman in particular is an advocate of his Trick/TW/Flash/Charm set which got him over 1000, but for various reasons I don't trust that move - against powerful lead moves, and particularly early critical hits or freeze/para hax, you'd be lucky to even get off one Flash, and in the case of physical attackers (note: basically all high CH-ratio moves are physical) it's much more effective to Charm before dying to their next attack... sure his streak speaks for itself, but trying to use hax against the game doesn't often end well, for me at least (read: Factory)
*Yes, I did use Wish instead of Flash. In most cases Roost would be more effective at stalling super-effective moves, but Wish did occasionally help against crits on Garchomp/Registeel's switch-in turn
*The main reason for Wish over Roost is that this was sort of another 'test run' which surprised me with how far it got, as once you replace Wish, it's gone for good. That's a stupid game mechanic based on Togekiss only having 4 level-up moves. So I'm hesitant to replace it knowing I can't undo that decision - anyone got advice about this? Remember that my loss had nothing to do with either of these moves, so maybe I could have got much further with either of the two moves
*I was expecting to lose to critical hax like I did last time, as evidenced by the name CritMagnet... didn't happen
*I don't know why I wanted it shiny, I guess I just like random sparkles or something



2. Registeel
Name: HardNess
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 140 Defense, 100 Attack, 16 Sp. Defense
IVs: 31-31-31-x-30-31
Level 50 Stats: 187-108-188-79-189-70
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- Curse
- Amnesia


*Still does the job well
*Though it doesn't get the Ghost (never does, due to the immunity of Togekiss), Dark and Bug moves to set up on as much as with a Psychic lead, it still has no trouble with most Tricked moves, resisting Rock (although Garchomp usually switches into those), Ice and... well, those two of the common weaknesses of Togekiss that Registeel can setup on. Sure there are freezes from Ice attacks ,eg. Togekiss got frozen and then Registeel was frozen for 9 turns - it sucks, but still managed to set up
*Togekiss occasionally draws in Fighting moves (but most fighters have Rock moves which they go for instead), but there's a way to deal with that...



3. Garchomp
Name: Draco II
Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
IVs: 16-31-24-x-21-31
Level 50 Stats: 176-182-112-81-101-169
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Substitute


*Without Garchomp, Electric moves would be troublesome - Togekiss draws them very often, allowing for more Garchomp sweeps than with a Psychic lead
*Thanks to the useful advice from Peterko regarding how I nearly lost once, I almost always switch in Garchomp once a 5 PP move has been wasted, rather than letting Registeel face the second poke with only some of the boosts - obviously with moves like Blizzard I wait for the fifth one to be used, but Stone Edge depends on whether Togekiss managed to get in a Charm/Thunder Wave or not
*I know, I should probably replace it with a flawless Garchomp, but as I said, this team was still a 'test' of sorts that went further than I expected, and I'm almost certainly using a different poke in my next team
*Sand Veil is a useless ability even when given the chance to do something (see the battle description further down)

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

OK what? why did you trick it after reading about #2364?

You only assumed I Tricked it, but that's not the case:

I think my loss was caused by psychological issues relating to the fact that I'd seen how you lost very recently - I was against Parasol Lady Sami, who uses only Set 3 pokes. I was scared enough seeing lead Gliscor appear, but then seeing on the list that the Guillotine set from hell was indeed Set 3, I almost resigned myself to losing right there and then. Of course, if you hadn't encountered Gliscor and discussed that in your post (even it had missed you a few times and had let you win), I would have Tricked it as I always used to, expecting the 'usual' choice of Counter. But no, I Charmed it......... my Togekiss lead does not run Flash, so that was my only option. As for why I Charmed it - obviously Thunder Wave would be useless, and Wish is useless against OHKOs, so Charm had a 50% chance of working... but no, it just had to be a Hyper Cutter one (but this trainer had a Hippowdon so maybe Sand Veil could have been just as bad). Due to my lead and Peterko's both being Flash-less, it's interesting that we both lost to this poke, but for me it was different since I knew it was 'safer' to not Trick it. This may have proven to be my downfall, but knowing the odds were 'high' at 1 in 123 for a 4-for-4 Guillotine haxfest, I didn't want to let that happen and then, much worse than the loss itself, get bashed by Peterko upon revealing how I lost! Then again, I'm sure you, Peterko, will find other decisions throughout my battle criticizable, but here I go anyway:


Parasol Lady Sami sends out 713 | Gliscor | Jolly | Focus Sash | Guillotine | Earthquake | U-turn | Counter | HP/Spe

Turn 1: Togekiss Charms, Hyper Cutter prevents Attack loss ("f**k, I've lost") - uses Guillotine (come on, why not Counter like you always used to!??) but misses... "what a relief - I feel much better now"

Turn 2: I don't want to switch Registeel (would've been stupid since Earthquake would beat it anyway) in, and definitely not Garchomp in since he's often the last ray of hope in near-death situations. So, I remain in with Togekiss, once again Charming with futility. Gliscor uses Guillotine... it's a one-hit KO! (suddenly Trick seemed appealing for that Focus Sash, but considering the whole 1 in 123 thing I passed that thought)

Turn 3: I send out Garchomp, obviously since he's faster and can Sub to stall Guillotines, but since this Gliscor hasn't been Tricked, I'd probably lose anyway since the low HP after Subs would make Chomp susceptible to an easy kill from Gliscor's EQ. Substitute I do, but interestingly the French scorpion uses U-Turn, thankfully not breaking my Sub as it didn't crit at the perfect time.

Turn 4: Out comes 755 | Salamence | Modest | Wise Glasses | Draco Meteor | Hydro Pump | Flamethrower | Ominous Wind | SpA/Spe

That explains the choice of U-Turn. No Intimidatation due to Sub, so that was a good move. Now, I believe my decision here was the most crucial one for deciding whether I'd win or lose... would I risk trying to Swords Dance, or just go for the kill with Outrage? At least I knew in advance which Mence set it was - trouble is, I had no idea whether it would go for Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump or Ominous Wind. After all, we became accustomed to Gliscor using Counter but then it changed its mind, so why not expect something unusual from Salamence? I didn't think of this at the time, but I'd say it probably would have chosen Ominous Wind, because A: The damage the Sub took from U-Turn would place the Sub in easy KO range for OW. B: It's 100% accurate unlike DM and HP, and instead of wasting Draco Meteor on a Sub, causing a Sp. Atk drop, I'm 'sure' it would have gone for OW. I didn't think of this at the time. But, supposing I had indeed taken a chance on Swords Dance - it would have broken my Sub, and "probably" would have got the boost to all stats from OW. Then it would easily get rid of Chomp and Registeel. So anyway, I went for Outrage. After all, the hit would definitely KO Mence, and after that there aren't many things that survive two Outrages...

Salamence goes down, and what comes out next??????

.... Turn 5:

....

Hippowdon.

732 | Hippowdon | Adamant | White Herb | Superpower | Fire Fang | Ice Fang | Fissure | HP/Atk

Now that is a 'mixed blessing' as they say - providing a sandstorm which Garchomp enjoys, but also being one of the most physically defensive pokes in the game. Enough that Outrage won't 2HKO (question for anyone who's good with damage calculations - is there any possibility at all for Jolly Garchomp to 2HKO this HP but not Defense EV'ed Hippowdon?), and being Set 3, this hippo has Ice Fang.

Garchomp Outrages again, doing less than 50% ("yep, this is the battle where I lose") - Ice Fang hits, breaks Sub.

Turn 6: Garchomp isn't confused and Outrages again... come on, why not give me a crit when I need it for once? No such luck, and Hippowdon remains with a small amount of red HP. Come on Sand Veil, prove that you're not a useless ability on an otherwise awesome dragon... - naturally Ice Fang hits again (75% accuracy with Sand Veil) and Garchomp is down.

Rest of the battle:

It's easier if you just watch the video, but to put it simply it hardly matters what I did with Registeel, as there's no way he's going to beat a full health Gliscor with Focus Sash, Earthquake and Guillotine, even if he somehow pulled off maybe 2 or 3 Curses. I Subbed to avoid Fissure, which missed, but if I Curse now I'll then be slower that the hippo, allowing to Fissure me before I Sub again. So no Curse, and after some Fire Fangs (critical hit, how amusing) and Superpowers, I still didn't have a chance to setup on a -2 Attack Hippowdon, if only for Fissure's existence and the likelihood of critical hits.

Anyway, I killed the hippo with Iron Head and was then promptly obliterated (Registeel had 69 HP left) by Gliscor's Earthquake. And apparently YouTube says 'good game' to that, in the URL it generated for the video.


Gliscor 3, the bane of Trick teams... how can we possibly Counter you? (SEE WHAT I DID THERE!? I said 'counter' because that's a clever pun!!!!)

the danger I see by not tricking gliscor (when I don´t know the set), is coming from sets 2 and 4 (maybe)

441, Gliscor 1, Adamant, Yache Berry, 150, 161, 177, 58, 95, 115, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, Swords Dance, Baton Pass, Attk/Def
577, Gliscor 2, Jolly, Razor Fang, 150, 147, 145, 58, 95, 161, Earthquake, Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Ice Fang, Attk/Speed
713, Gliscor 3, Jolly, Focus Sash, 182, 115, 145, 58, 95, 161, Guillotine, Earthquake, U-turn, Counter, HP/Speed
849, Gliscor 4, Adamant, Expert Belt, 150, 161, 177, 58, 95, 115, Earthquake, Aerial Ace, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Attk/Def

set 1 - I actually don´t remember facing this one much hmm, at least I don´t remember being baton passed out turn 1 lol...so it probably uses AA or SD, which means I can reswitch and move from there

set 2 - uses ice fang against latias, obviously, which freezes ocassionally, like the majority of ice moves do, obviously

if I charm and it´s hyper cutter and gliscor freezes latias turn 1 hmm...I could switchstall quake/ice fang and when there´s no quake I might get defrosted by FF hmm - OK this should work

set 4 - mostly uses x-scissor and a CH has a shot at OHKOing my latias, which would suck...I´d have to set up chomp naked...well, not the worst thing in the world, but not fun either...oh a CH quake has a shot at getting rid of garchomp in 1 turn as well, wow and that´s just 1/256 probability :( (as CHes ignore potential attack drops from charm)
I should always win if he doesn´t CH turn 1

set 3 scor I can´t give a scarf anymore, which leaves me with charm...
- if charm works, garchomp should be able to set up
- if charm doesn´t work...well, hopefully he won´t spam quakes on chomp (wishful thinking)

still, what a beast gliscor is :)

- Interesting observations, and it's worth noting that against my Togekiss, Set 2 has a 50% chance of using Thunder Fang which is good... in my Togekiss streak, when facing the same pokes which have both Ice Beam/Thunderbolt or Ice Punch/Thunderpunch, they seem to choose it randomly, as I'm pretty sure they don't 'know' about other team members - ie. Garchomp.

Set 4 would use Stone Edge on Togekiss, which is nice since it's non-STAB and 5 PP - Garchomp would be able to set up even if Charm failed.

kingler and gliscor, the new battle tower ubers? oh well rhydon4 can still pull it off better than those two lol

EDIT: oh yes, flash > recover against gliscor

Indeed, but I'm still not so scared of Kingler leads since you can 'just' Thunder Wave it and be 'relatively safe'. I won't underestimate the power of its Crabhammer though, as it did just over 50% to unboosted Drapion when I was using him that time.

I agree, that's the only thing that would ever sell Flash to me over recovery moves like Recover on your Latias and Wish/Roost on my Togekiss. But I still don't get how Jumpman got so far with that move...

Originally Posted by Fat Phiddlesticks

DrDimentio and others can you please stop calling it the "Fagtory" or the "Haxtory"? All it does is make you look dumb, honestly.

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

also yeah stop putting the factory down please it is a great facility

Hey, no need for that hostility (by the way, calling someone dumb is actually far worse in my book than using common vulgar phrases, so please don't treat me like that just because I'm fairly new here and obviously quite a dumb little kid) - I'm not saying anything bad about people who play the Factory, I'm not at all saying they're inferior or anything to those like me who prefer the Tower any day, I'm saying that I, and others like Peterko, personally hate the place because of what it's done to me/us. Especially the 'that time went down the drain' concept which is more prevalent there. So please don't assume I'm dumbing down the Factory... I just have to express my hatred for it. And if you look at my signature you'll see that I have negative titles for all the Frontier facilities. All 5 facilities are breeding grounds for hax, it's just that it seems far more common in the Factory since you have to rely on often unreliable movesets (eg. inaccurate moves) and especially because the Factory is home to Thorton, the biggest cheater in the history of video-games. Like when I tried level 50 and got up to him with stuff like Murkrow, Buizel, etc, he leads with Togekiss and other far more powerful pokes. And on Open Level he uses legends when you can't choose any yourself. Anyway, that's what I dislike about the Factory. Also, Glen, it's a very impressive achievement that you got so close to 49... getting that far there is probably harder than getting up to my record in the Tower, so that's quite awesome for you. As you can see, I respect Factory records as much as those in any other facility.

[Peterko]

good post Dr.D, that wasn´t an easy battle

I would´ve swords danced against salamence (probably) hmmm, wait maybe I would´ve analyzed the roster of sami first (lol it took me over 2 hours to make the move, when that torterra case happened)

oh I just remembered my salamence approach when I charm it...so there was another way, to try setting up registeel or even garchomp semi-full

let´s see

garchomp behind a sub, vs salamence
garchomp uses swords dance, salamence uses something to break sub, chomp at 132
switch, draco meteor 41-48 dmg, (-2), lefties, min 150 HP left
switch, flamethrower 17-21 dmg (111-115 HP left)
switch, draco meteor 21-24 dmg, (-4), lefties, min 137 HP left
switch, flamethrower 11-14 dmg (97-104 HP left)
switch, draco meteor 14-17 dmg, (-6), lefties, min 131 HP left (even shorter/better if he used DM to break chomp´s sub)

at this point, salamence does 20, 22 or 24 damage to your registeel, which is at 70% of its HP (min)

unless he CHs you right now (or later 2 in a row), you should beat it

20-22-24, sub (min 61, +11 = 72)
20-22-24, amnesia (83)
10-12, amnesia (94)
8-10,
- sub breaks if he did max damage with each of the 3 throwers (very improbable), amnesia
- sub doesn´t break, amnesia (105), now he does 6 or 8 damage with thrower, yeah, registeel is that good)
6-8, sub breaks (or doesn´t), sub
curse up + sub to be safe
recover HP when fully set up by PP wasting with amnesia and sub
1hko salamence

if he sends out gliscor and doesn´t counter or hit with guillotine, you´re behind a sub, which means you win the battle (note that quake from that particular gliscor 3hkos your sub, 2HKO only if he does max damage both times...so maybe I´d consider PP wasting guillotine here as well, depending on the # of subs you have and gliscor´s behaviour)

if he sends in hippo and doesn´t kill registeel (2 fissures in a row), you should be behind a sub before gliscor comes in, which means you win the battle

I didn´t do the calcs, but maybe you would have been able to even set up garchomp (like a SD and sub) after PP wasting draco meteor by switching

still a very hard battle, but you have to be able to win these kinds of battles to get to where I did


now I wanted to comment on one particular comment, but I won´t, because I already got used to the fact that they still occur and I find them amusing, some people just can´t get over / accept some things...

[christopher_ 1942]

Not to be a nerd. But would Hypno be a good Pokemon in the Battle Frontier because it learns Thunder Wave, Flash and Switcheroo holding a Choice Scarf. Plus, it's bulky.

[Destiny100]

I have a question, would Ninjask be useful in the Battle Tower? The boost in speed and access to substitue + protect. Then it can baton pass the boosted stats onto another bulky sweeper which is now very fast.

[Bozo]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Bozo you´re wrong, from my exp. lv.50 1-21 is way harder, I mean there´s at least fully evolved pokés in open level with not such heavy stat differences (of course there are dif.), there´s the difference in moveset when you battle trainer 7, 14, 21...but try to compare that to NFE´s (first stage, second stage) and imagine those differences, I mean if you get a porygon lead in the first set of 7, you´ll probably not gonna lose, but what if you get crap and have to face fully evolved pokés (happens often) in battle #7 and upwards

the difference between round 1 and round 2, also round 3 (thorton uses fully evolved set1 from open level IIRC) is huge, lv.50 early rounds is hell on earth, you´ll often find yourself losing at 5 or 9 or 13 lol


this is info from TRE and added stuff that´s been mentioned/I got from my recent exp.

BATTLE FACTORY OPEN LEVEL

ROUND 1
1. Before the first battle in this round, you get a choice of 6 set 1 Pokémon and they all have 0 IVs
2. In battles 1-6 you face trainers who use set 1 Pokémon with 0 IVs
3. In battle 7 you face a trainer who uses set 2 pokémon with 4 IVs
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-
ROUND 2
1. Before the first battle in this round, you get a choice of either
a) five set 2 Pokémon with 4 IVs and one set 3 Pokémon with 8 IVs, if you swapped 7 times, or
b) six set 2 Pokémon with 4 IVs, if you swapped 6 or fewer times
2. In battles 8-13 you face trainers who use either set 1 pokémon with 0 IVs or set 2 pokémon with 4 IVs
3. In battle 14 you face a trainer who uses set 3 pokémon
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-
ROUND 3
1. Before the first battle in this round, you get a choice of either
a) two set 4 Pokémon with 12 IVs and four set 3 Pokémon with 8 IVs, if you swapped 14 times,
b) one set 4 Pokémon with 12 IVs and five set 3 Pokémon with 8 IVs, if you swapped 7 to 13 times, or
c) six set 3 Pokémon with 8 IVs, if you swapped 6 or fewer times
2. In battles 15-20 you face trainers who use either set 2 pokémon with 8 IVs or set 3 pokémon with 12 IVs
3. In battle 21 you face Thorton, who uses set 4 pokémon with (?) flawless / 16 IVs (?)

"sets" are here
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...36&postcount=2

EDIT: congrats on 300

i'm definitely not trying to say that is fact. ive only had one "streak" in the platinum factory. got to 14 with hardly any swaps. in emerald i found that battles 1-21 were probably harder in level 50 and 22-42 harder in open. so i figured why not try and do the hard ones first - once you get up to 22 in level 50 its basically equivalent to starting open level from scratch (and because i didnt swap, i didnt have to face the high powered opponents which the AI got as well as you - apparentlythis is different in platinum).

but if, as you say, there is a far bigger problem of stat-inequities, then i guess that could make it more difficult. my 14 streak was put to an end when, after having swept battles 8-13 almost single-handedly with gligar (swords dance + aerial ace) i faced a dragonaire with dragon pulse which just obliterated me (my backups were of the calibre of seaking lol).

thanks for the edit :)

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Yeah level 50 is definitely harder for 1 - 21. I tend to think after 21 lvl 50 is easier than after 21 for Open Level though.

Anyway, I played lvl 50 Factory once today and lost at 18, 3 trades. I dunno. I didn't feel like trading. Saves time.

then i reckon the easiest way to go for a 49 streak is to do level 50's. do the hard yards first, rather than always cruising through 21 (lol like that would ever happen) only to get stuck on something difficult in the next 28.

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

Come on Peterko, you know the Fagtory isn't worth your time. Plus the game is pissed off at you completely breaking the Tower with 2363, so it's getting revenge via the Fagtory. I honestly don't know why you're putting yourself through that pain - other than Jumpman suggesting it. If some random says "omg i pwn u at pokemon i hav 5 gold print" you can show them your Tower record and they'll faint.

By the way, I lost at 284 to a lead French Gliscor.

That's right, Guillotine..... the post is coming once my video has been made - at least a day you'll have to wait. And yes, this was my new team with the 'mystery lead' nobody has used on a Trick team yet.

quoting this instead of the longer post below.

i have been trying very hard to guess what your mystery lead would be! but to be honest, i completely overlooked wish, since i know latias learns it, and i thought you said it was a move that only your new pokemon can learn ;) to be honest, ive toyed with the idea of wish, but figured once salamence/registeel gets set up, they're not going to want to switch out even to get some hp back. still, would be nice to switch into an attack and know you'll be at full health, even with a nicely timed CH. and i dont recall latias really needing to use recover too many times in a row.....

i like the idea of togekiss though - its a really cool pokemon :)

so, do you think you'll change to flash now? and sucks about the battle you lost. very unlucky :(

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

but sunny day was in effect so i won! HEH

oh SO GOOD!!!!!!! pity about 47 :(

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

the video's YouTube URL starts with 'GG' - that's the second time the site has paid me out (one of my other videos starts with 'Ass')

actually yeah the lines the trainers give you when they win are frustrating, but they would be worse if they just said "GG" lol. personally, i'd consider deleting the video from youtube and reposting it! maybe not. will watch in a sec.....

im "pretty sure" he would have used draco meteor on the sub, based on everything ive observed in the battle castle (not that ive used sub there, but every time they use a SE effective move unless they can KO you). but i'll resist jumping in on the "another thing you could have done" discussion.

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

oh I just remembered my salamence approach when I charm it...so there was another way, to try setting up registeel or even garchomp semi-full

etc.....

i now trick all dragon leads figuring that if they get locked on a special dragon move, registeel easily sets up - even draco meteor because of the SA drop (although i had a scare against a sniper kingdra that got a crit). whereas if it uses outrage and KO's latias, then i switch to salamence and then immediately switch again to registeel - it ends up with one attack drop (so it may as well be using an unboosted dragon claw) and is most likely confused by this point.

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny100

I have a question, would Ninjask be useful in the Battle Tower? The boost in speed and access to substitue + protect. Then it can baton pass the boosted stats onto another bulky sweeper which is now very fast.

it is fun, but not terribly reliable. i once used it with things like metagross in emerald way back. it leads to many easy battles - if the oppoent chose a status move, they will usually continue to do it against your sub while you get your metagross set up with a sub and +6Atk / +6Spe. but sooner or later it will die to QC or some kind of hax, and if your sweepers absolutely need the stat boosts, you will find yourself in trouble.

[DrDimentio]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

good post Dr.D, that wasn´t an easy battle

I would´ve swords danced against salamence (probably) hmmm, wait maybe I would´ve analyzed the roster of sami first (lol it took me over 2 hours to make the move, when that torterra case happened)

oh I just remembered my salamence approach when I charm it...so there was another way, to try setting up registeel or even garchomp semi-full

let´s see

garchomp behind a sub, vs salamence
garchomp uses swords dance, salamence uses something to break sub, chomp at 132
switch, draco meteor 41-48 dmg, (-2), lefties, min 150 HP left
switch, flamethrower 17-21 dmg (111-115 HP left)
switch, draco meteor 21-24 dmg, (-4), lefties, min 137 HP left
switch, flamethrower 11-14 dmg (97-104 HP left)
switch, draco meteor 14-17 dmg, (-6), lefties, min 131 HP left (even shorter/better if he used DM to break chomp´s sub)

at this point, salamence does 20, 22 or 24 damage to your registeel, which is at 70% of its HP (min)

unless he CHs you right now (or later 2 in a row), you should beat it

20-22-24, sub (min 61, +11 = 72)
20-22-24, amnesia (83)
10-12, amnesia (94)
8-10,
- sub breaks if he did max damage with each of the 3 throwers (very improbable), amnesia
- sub doesn´t break, amnesia (105), now he does 6 or 8 damage with thrower, yeah, registeel is that good)
6-8, sub breaks (or doesn´t), sub
curse up + sub to be safe
recover HP when fully set up by PP wasting with amnesia and sub
1hko salamence

if he sends out gliscor and doesn´t counter or hit with guillotine, you´re behind a sub, which means you win the battle (note that quake from that particular gliscor 3hkos your sub, 2HKO only if he does max damage both times...so maybe I´d consider PP wasting guillotine here as well, depending on the # of subs you have and gliscor´s behaviour)

if he sends in hippo and doesn´t kill registeel (2 fissures in a row), you should be behind a sub before gliscor comes in, which means you win the battle

I didn´t do the calcs, but maybe you would have been able to even set up garchomp (like a SD and sub) after PP wasting draco meteor by switching

still a very hard battle, but you have to be able to win these kinds of battles to get to where I did


now I wanted to comment on one particular comment, but I won´t, because I already got used to the fact that they still occur and I find them amusing, some people just can´t get over / accept some things...

I agree, Swords Dance would have probably been safer... but of course I was hoping that the next poke would not be one of the very few who can survive 2 Outrages. I suppose I should've analyzed the roster like you have done, but it still would've come down to chance.

Um okay then, Registeel is Uber.... those calculations you did there are evidence of it! I had no idea that Registeel would be able to take the hits that well, then again I have a justifiable paranoia of critical hits, which in the case of DM may have been troublesome.

Yeah in that case I would've PP wasted Guillotine since I never take chances with OHKOs.

And I can only imagine how true that is that you had to win many tough battles like that to get to 2363 - of course, lead Guillotine Gliscor didn't do its thing to you before then, so that's the main difference.

Originally Posted by Fat christopher_ 1942

Not to be a nerd. But would Hypno be a good Pokemon in the Battle Frontier because it learns Thunder Wave, Flash and Switcheroo holding a Choice Scarf. Plus, it's bulky.

Main reason to not use Hypno is the lack of Ground immunity, which is bad due to high power and distribution of Earthquake, and other issues that arise from that. Other than that, he doesn't really take physical hits quite as well as most of the other common Trick leads.

Originally Posted by Fat Bozo

quoting this instead of the longer post below.

i have been trying very hard to guess what your mystery lead would be! but to be honest, i completely overlooked wish, since i know latias learns it, and i thought you said it was a move that only your new pokemon can learn ;) to be honest, ive toyed with the idea of wish, but figured once salamence/registeel gets set up, they're not going to want to switch out even to get some hp back. still, would be nice to switch into an attack and know you'll be at full health, even with a nicely timed CH. and i dont recall latias really needing to use recover too many times in a row.....

i like the idea of togekiss though - its a really cool pokemon :)

so, do you think you'll change to flash now? and sucks about the battle you lost. very unlucky :(

Yup, and you can see why I wasn't that exciting, lol. About that - at first I thought Wish was unique to Togekiss as a Trick lead, hence why I said 'unique move' I think, but then I checked Latias' movepool and was like ".................". Oh. But still, I like the difference in Tricked moves that comes from the Normal/Flying combination - especially Electric attacks. I think I might try Roost in my next attempt, since it will make it 'easy' to PP stall super-effective attacks and such. Also, unlike Wish it makes it easier to survive powerful hits where an extra turn of survival never comes.

Indeed, I have been a Togekiss fan for a long while despite the stupid name (hi, my toughest pokeman is togekiss), weird cry and lame shiny colours (someone dipped a normal one in a yellow puddle?). In fact, I use one as my Flying slave - have been doing so since my noob days in Pearl. But in the end, it's the rather awesome non-legendary base stats that make me like him.

Togekiss frequently survived 2 Ice/Thunder Punches from Metagross with a few HP remaining - definitely like having the Bold nature. I'll change to Flash if Roost isn't effective enough.

Originally Posted by Fat Bozo

actually yeah the lines the trainers give you when they win are frustrating, but they would be worse if they just said "GG" lol. personally, i'd consider deleting the video from youtube and reposting it! maybe not. will watch in a sec.....

im "pretty sure" he would have used draco meteor on the sub, based on everything ive observed in the battle castle (not that ive used sub there, but every time they use a SE effective move unless they can KO you). but i'll resist jumping in on the "another thing you could have done" discussion.



i now trick all dragon leads figuring that if they get locked on a special dragon move, registeel easily sets up - even draco meteor because of the SA drop (although i had a scare against a sniper kingdra that got a crit). whereas if it uses outrage and KO's latias, then i switch to salamence and then immediately switch again to registeel - it ends up with one attack drop (so it may as well be using an unboosted dragon claw) and is most likely confused by this point.

Just by coincidence, all the high streaks in which I've lost, have been to the few trainers who don't say annyoying, "ima best" kind of quotes. Doesn't matter though because in all these streaks (196, 313, 283) I've had the Peterko reaction - "oh, I lost".

Lol, I don't want to lose views and comments, plus it's funny when the site has hidden messages in the URLs. So 'GG' it will remain.

Indeed, what really matters is that I learned something from my loss. Mainly that Registeel is awesome, as Peterko's calcs showed, and next time I'd switch to him in that situation, probably.

Still, it sucks that Sand Veil fails when you need it most. For that reason, ability-wise - Salamence > Garchomp.

Now this is a 'short' post by my standards!

[Jumpman16**]

Originally Posted by Fat Destiny100

I have a question, would Ninjask be useful in the Battle Tower? The boost in speed and access to substitue + protect. Then it can baton pass the boosted stats onto another bulky sweeper which is now very fast.

it would have to have sub itself or it would eventually fall victim to QC or brightpowder, ninjask's subs arent going to hold up. not too many bulky sweepers have the coverage to sweep everything with three moves for hundreds of battles at a time

Originally Posted by Fat christopher_ 1942

Not to be a nerd. But would Hypno be a good Pokemon in the Battle Frontier because it learns Thunder Wave, Flash and Switcheroo holding a Choice Scarf. Plus, it's bulky.

too slow even with a scarf, it needs a beneficial speed nature and 252 EVs to be able to outspeed most of the stuff in the tower and then it won't have the durability to take hits on its 85HP/70Def physical defenses. it's not really that bulky at all btw, even with 115 base SpD. im not going to tell everyone to use cresselia or mesprit over anything else, but hypno's lone selling point over those pokemon is its Forewarn ability that will almost always tell you what set you're facing, which is a significant advantage over Levitate but not hands-down

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

now I wanted to comment on one particular comment, but I won´t, because I already got used to the fact that they still occur and I find them amusing, some people just can´t get over / accept some things...

if you're referring to my comment you may have misinterpreted it, your latias has no attacking moves just like the milotic you lost to and you have the record with latias so you're accusing the ai of the same trolling youve been guilty of, but if you werent referring to my comment then okay

[Bozo]

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

Um okay then, Registeel is Uber.... those calculations you did there are evidence of it! I had no idea that Registeel would be able to take the hits that well, then again I have a justifiable paranoia of critical hits, which in the case of DM may have been troublesome.

registeel totally is uber actually. and although it is a little nerve wracking to switch back and forth, hoping they will pick the "obvious" move, it might have been the best thing to do in that situation.

btw, i was thinking about registeel the other day. once it has +6/+6 defenses, a substitute is basically a whole registeel. very amusing!

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

Yup, and you can see why I wasn't that exciting, lol. About that - at first I thought Wish was unique to Togekiss as a Trick lead, hence why I said 'unique move' I think, but then I checked Latias' movepool and was like ".................". Oh. But still, I like the difference in Tricked moves that comes from the Normal/Flying combination - especially Electric attacks. I think I might try Roost in my next attempt, since it will make it 'easy' to PP stall super-effective attacks and such. Also, unlike Wish it makes it easier to survive powerful hits where an extra turn of survival never comes.

i'll definitely be interested to see how far you can make that team go. it obviously has a lot of potential (and with roost, togekiss becomes very similar to peterko's latias). definitely an interesting idea to try and draw more electric attacks. sure the others get a few thunderwaves, but i hardly ever see any electric attacks apart from say PP wasting cross chop and then getting a machamp stuck on thunderpunch.

Originally Posted by Fat DrDimentio

Still, it sucks that Sand Veil fails when you need it most. For that reason, ability-wise - Salamence > Garchomp.

if garchomp had intimidate.......!!

Originally Posted by Fat Jumpman16

if you're referring to my comment you may have misinterpreted it, your latias has no attacking moves just like the milotic you lost to and you have the record with latias so you're accusing the ai of the same trolling youve been guilty of, but if you werent referring to my comment then okay

i thought the "who would be so lame as to use a pokemon with no attacking moves?" comment coming from a person who uses a lead with no attacking moves would be a candidate for the most obviously sarcastic thing in this thread ;)

[Atlas]

uhh...i guess...

Platinum Battle Factory Double Record:16

bleh, i didnt have many good rentals this time around. in the first round i mostly swept with arcanine and tentacruel, and 2nd round i had a arcanine and muk. and this round i ended up with...arcanine, crobat and thick clubmarowak. i beat the first and second round and traded out marowak so i went into battle 17 with...

arcanine - flare drive/crunch/extreme speed/thuderfang
crobat - air slash/sludgebomb/dark pulse
salamece - draco meteor/flamethrower/hydro pump

so first things that come out are a froslass and an espeon. i wasnt too worried at this point although i thought i should take out froslass first since my team doesnt fare well against ice. also i wasnt confidant that crobat could ohko so i had arcanine help with a double attack. crobat starts off and dark pulses froslass down to 30% andstarmie ohkos crobat with psychic. next froslass uses destiny bond and takes out arcanine :/ salamence now has to deal with starmie and the incoming blastoise. mence takes blastoise only down to like 25% with draco meteor and gets hit back with an avalanche and psychic.

[Chinese Dood]

After reading your post, I decided to give Double Battle Factory a try too!

I lost at 18 with 8 swaps. Of all the things I could have lost to in the factory, I lost to the good old freeze hax. :( I would have been happier if I lost because of a lack of good pokemon to pick from or something.

Ah well, here's a medium length summary:

Oh, and I didn't look up the pokemon database (if you're wondering why I don't even remember all the moves my pokemon had).

Streak 1 - 7:
I started with:
Lead 1: Yanmega(Speed Boost with DETECT, Signal Beam, Air Cutter, and something I never used)
Lead 2: Quagsire(Earthquake, Aqua Tail, Brick Break, and something I never used)

Had different things for 3rd pokemon... don't remember anymore. I just remember most of the time it was Cradily.

Strategy should be ridiculously obvious. Quagsire EQs while Yanmega attacks or Detect if I suspect it's going to be attacked.

Had a couple close calls, just because I didn't really care about losing with the low streak anyway.

Streak 8 - 14:
I just had random things. I started with:
Lead 1: Snorlax (punches and chesto rest)
Lead 2: Infernape (Blaze Kick, Shadow Claw, Thunderpunch, Gunk Shot)
3rd pokemon: I don't remember, but after first battle I got a DD Gyarados with iron head.

There wasn't much strategy to be had with this streak. I just tried to switch whenever I thought something might be useful, but I think in the end I only swapped like twice. I had Espeon (Psychic, Charm, Attract, Swift) as my lead with Infernape for at least 3 of the 7 battles. Charm was surprisingly useful.

Streak 15 - 18:
I had the best team so far, but yah, that's usually when I lose.
Lead 1: Salamence (@Wise Glasses with Draco Meteor, Hydro Pump, Flamethrower, Ominous Wind that I never used)
Lead 2: Blissey (@ Bright Powder <that never worked> with Calm Mind, Boltbeamthrower)

3rd pokemon was Magezone (@ forgot with Charge Beam, Twave, Flash Cannon, Magnet Rise)

After battle 17, I swapped Blissey out for the Choice Scarf Tyranitar (punches + aerial ace), because I figured Tyranitar is a pretty good special wall, and... more importantly I thought having a physical attacker might be a good idea.

Battle 19 Summary:
I was facing Starmie, Dewgong, Skarmory. I thought my Ttar outspeeds Starmie (yah, I looked it up just now, my bad. 180 speed for Ttar, 183 for Starmie), but nope, Starmie Blizzard KOs Salamence and freezes Ttar for 7 turns. Magnezone put up a good fight, but got confused from Dewgong's Signal Beam.

I might try this again. This seems less annoying than Single Factory. I've always liked Double more though.

[Roy]

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

ugh dude ive lost at ~40 so many times losing to thorton has become considerably less upsetting :(

but basically the battle factory is like an abusive husband, you know it's just going to keep hurting you but you continually convince yourself to go back to it

i completely agree. it is tough for me to break 28 these days. and even when i do, i realize four hours have passed. thank god for winter break!!

[Groombridge]

DP Doubles, 112 wins

A semi-decent run. I think this version of my team is the best so far, but I've yet to break my record...

Battle 113

One of the PIs. You all look the same to me.

Meta 4, QC boom
Gliscor 3, Countersash, French
Walrein 3, Restalk OHKO
Kingler 2, French

(The DP list has these guys only using Gliscor 2, but I definitely went up against G3. Not a huge problem since nobody plays DP!)

PI: Metagross and Gliscor
Me: Starmie and Toxicroak

Fantastic. Since the end of Peterko's streak and the posts that followed, I now have a deathly fear of Gliscor - even though this is doubles and three of my team have Ice Beam. Obviously Metagross is a huge problem, and the two at once is incredibly bad.

I'm going to have to sacrifice Croak. I'll Fake Out Meta and use Rain Dance, and see what Gliscor does. I'm expecting Guillotine...

Turn 1

Croak used Fake Out!
Starmie used Rain Dance!
Rain began to fall!

Gliscor used Counter!
But it failed!

Meta flinched!

Lucky break there - free setup for me. Now, Meta will definitely go for Croak. Not sure about Gliscor. I'll Helping Hand Surf - it easily 2HKOs Meta, and it'll kill Gliscor if it doesn't have a Sash. (Didn't realise it did.)

Turn 2

Croak used Helping Hand!
Starmie used Surf!
~ 100% Gliscor, Sash
~ 70% to Meta

Gliscor used Guillotine!
But it missed!

Meta used Zen Headbutt!
Croak fainted!

Me: Kingdra

Here come the OHKOs, and so far luck is on my side. I bring Kingdra in, planning to double Surf.

But what if Meta booms on me?

If Meta gets no QC activation, Kingdra Surfs first. It can't crit Starmie to death due to Sash, and both foes die.

If Meta QCs me, it'lll probably explode - but again, Starmie lives and it's 2-2.

Turn 3

QC: Meta used Explosion!
~ KO Kingdra
~ 100% Starmie, Sash
~ KO Gliscor

Starmie used Surf!
But there was no target...

And there it is. I'm glad I didn't try to switch in Ludicolo there. But my main sweeper is down without having attacked.

PI: Kingler and Walrein
Me: Ludi

Here's a dilemma. Both of these are OHKO jokers, but here's the rub: I can't OHKO either of them. Best bet is to focus fire and reduce the number of attacks incoming. I really didn't see much difference between them at this point - but in retrospect Kinger could have Endured and really fucked up my Christmas.

Turn 4

Ludi used Grass Knot!
~ 70% Kingler

Starmie used Thunder!
~ KO Kingler

Walrein used Fissure!
~ KO Starmie

No Endure, so now it's one on one. Ludi can't OHKO Walrein without a crit, so I basically need it to miss in order to win. I'm screwed, in other words.

Turn 5

Ludi used Grass Knot!
~ 65% to Walrein

Walrein used Fissure!
~ KO Ludi

And that's that. A classic 'hax battle', with an irritating Focus Sash, Quick Claw, Explosion and a couple of OHKO moves. There were three real 'hax events' here: Meta's QC activating, and Walrein's two OHKOs. If any one of them hadn't happened, I would have won. The odds of all of them happening in one game aren't too ridiculous compared to some of the other stuff we've seen (0.2 x 0.3 x 0.3 = 0.018).

I could have focus fired on Walrein, as Kingler *might* have used something other than Guillotine, whereas that Walrein could only use OHKOs.

Of course, had I done that, then Kingler would have finished off Starmie on turn 4. It could then Endure on turn 5, getting the Salac boost as the Rain ran out, outspeeding and Flailing Ludi for the KO.

This was simply one of those games where the AI 'decided' to win. Like before, the game was decided when Meta exploded.

This exposes a weakness in the team. Only Starmie can survive a QC boom if it has its Sash. I get the feeling that dropping attacks for Protect would lose me more games than I'd win, however.

I'll probably go back to it, as I think this team can beat 200 with a little luck.

I tried Multi again for laughs (Latios and Metagross). Went well until I came up against Shedinja - my guys can't touch it. So I used Meta's Ice Punch on my partner's Dragonite to force him to bring out Stone Edge Lucario. After all the times my 'partner' has used spread moves on me, that felt good :)

- -
Rain offence team

Starmie @ Focus Sash ** Mersenne
Timid, Natural Cure
6 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Rain Dance/Surf/Thunder/Ice Beam
- Rain setup, sweeper

Toxicroak @ Expert Belt ** Cerenkov
Adamant, Dry Skin
252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Spe
Fake Out/Helping Hand/Low Kick/Sucker Punch
- support, physical coverage

Kingdra @ Life Orb ** Vela
Modest, Swift Swim
200 HP, 252 SpA, 56 Spe
Rain Dance/Surf/Draco Meteor/Ice Beam
- sweeper, secondary Rain setup

Ludicolo @ Leftovers ** Zeeman
Bold, Swift Swim
134 HP, 252 SpA, 124 Spe
Leech Seed/Surf/Grass Knot/Ice Beam
- sweeper

[Darth Kaiser]

Hi I'm darthkaiser and I would like to know something for example for two years I've been exahustively trying to get the battle tower star to no luck on Diamond always lost at 50 or before but a couple of days back I finally decided to give the tower some of what it has given me extreme HAX so I got ready my togekiss with king rock and air slash and tri attack and I started winning and winning and winning I also used some OHKO moves that helped me a lot. The thing is taht I finally conquered it after battle no 100 and I was hoping I could put my record here, I don't know how exactly this works I was like oh good I rock but then I saw the guy with 2363 and I'm hoping I could reach 1000 in the battle tower doing 100 a day my streak currently rests at 245 don't know how could I put it here? or who do I have to talk to? so any help here?
Also If I leave the battle tower in diamond will my streak gets reset back to 1? or only if I lose
Thanks

[Jumpman16**]

just follow the format of any of the people who have posted records so far, post your full team with items, EVs, natures, abilities and moves and share your strategy with us

Originally Posted by Fat deuteronopia

Battle 113

One of the PIs. You all look the same to me.

Meta 4, QC boom
Gliscor 3, Countersash, French
Walrein 3, Restalk OHKO
Kingler 2, French

sucks that you lost, again your team is probably my favorite doubles team ever. like last time, i'm going to offer some 20/20 hindsight advice that may be off since i don't know too much about doubles, but...what if you had surfed with starmie first turn instead of used rain dance, while still telling meta to FO (fake out, get it, etc)? i know your priority is to get rain up, but you could almost rest assured that meta would be targeting toxicroak regardless of move and that your FO would preempt its QC no matter what. and even though starmie's surf wont kill gliscor (85-101% to the one you thought it was, won't ever kill the sash one for obvious reasons), you yourself have a sash and there's no way starmie is dying turn 1.

so when you surf and FO, meta flinches and gliscor uses counter, you can surf again, killing gliscor, doing ~35% again to metagross and have faster croak use low kick on king idiot's heavy ass for the kill since turn 2 isn't where oyu got QCed after all (42-50%). then you're up 4-2, and, though without rain, stand a great chance of winning since starmie's sash is untouched and you can no longer fall victim to QC. there like isnt even a PI poke that can stop sash starmie from getting rain up "probably", i'm not going to check the DP list to confirm but like ony duggy can outspeed starmie, ok i cheated and peeked and reminded myself that i didnt have to cause natures aren't listed which means the usual 16% chance duggy could even fissure your timid starmie. as it would have played out with a turn 1 surf, you could RD against walrein/kingler (and be thankful that kingler doesnt have swift swim like it "could"), starmie survives no matter what, and you can thunder either one (especially dumbass walrein with its stupid brightpowder starmie doesnt care about) even if they kill toxicroak.

alternately, if you play it the way you did, you could have surfed kingler on turn 4. *the* reason, as i look at kingler's stats right now, that it is NU is the fact that it has 55HP/50SpD, which is even worse than i thought. if you add a very reasonable 25 points to both, you have 80/130/115/50/75/75 that still doesn't exactly make it a great pokemon, but its Special Defense is absolute shit. i dont blame you for not knowing this, but surf does 30% on average even to the incredibly self-conscious, HP/SpD EVed Kingler, meaning that it could have died to Surf+GK since GK did ~70%. you would then have been able to thunder walrein's gay ass back to the north pole the next turn since starmie would have been alive no matter what thanks to sash, and also kingler doesn't outspeed starmie even after salac because of all its special overcompensation (unlike in Plat).

so even if you didn't get rain up turn 1, i think you are ultimately going to feel pretty good about these words here because they mean your team is still awesome and you just need to get used to it more.

Originally Posted by Fat Bozo

i thought the "who would be so lame as to use a pokemon with no attacking moves?" comment coming from a person who uses a lead with no attacking moves would be a candidate for the most obviously sarcastic thing in this thread ;)

well he did say "create", not use, so i think he was talking about the tower in general having such sets because they can be very annoying to face especially in the factory (if anything he is hating on glen for creating glenscarfing in the first place)

[Groombridge]

Originally Posted by Fat Jumpman16

sucks that you lost, again your team is probably my favorite doubles team ever. like last time, i'm going to offer some 20/20 hindsight advice that may be off since i don't know too much about doubles, but...

Cheers, dude. Analysis of a loss is always appreciated, though...

what if you had surfed with starmie first turn instead of used rain dance, while still telling meta to FO (fake out, get it, etc)? i know your priority is to get rain up, but you could almost rest assured that meta would be targeting toxicroak regardless of move and that your FO would preempt its QC no matter what. and even though starmie's surf wont kill gliscor (85-101% to the one you thought it was, won't ever kill the sash one for obvious reasons), you yourself have a sash and there's no way starmie is dying turn 1.

Fake Out/Surf is something I haven't really used so far, so I could certainly try it. My usual opening move is Fake Out/Rain Dance, or sometimes Helping Hand/Surf if Rhydon shows its face (if you don't have an irrational hatred of Rhydon you haven't played BT enough). Either setup or all-out attack - I don't normally 'go halves' like that. In this situation, that's a nice move to make. On turn 2, though, I'd still be at risk from Meta's QC. It would probably Zenbutt Croak (it's always gone for Croak, every time so far), but I'd be worried it would Explode. I'd probably Helping Hand/Surf to ensure Croak got to move before being killed.

so when you surf and FO, meta flinches and gliscor uses counter, you can surf again, killing gliscor, doing ~35% again to metagross and have faster croak use low kick on king idiot's heavy ass for the kill since turn 2 isn't where oyu got QCed after all (42-50%). then you're up 4-2, and, though without rain, stand a great chance of winning since starmie's sash is untouched and you can no longer fall victim to QC.

I like the idea of this, but you can see how lucky I got before Meta exploded: 'next time' this happens, Gliscor might U-turn on Starmie on turn 1, its Guillotine might hit, or Meta could even QC explode right away. I went for the Rain fully expecting Starmie and Croak to die, preparing for Ludi and Kingdra to revenge kill and sweep from there. When facing two threatening leads like this, I adopt a kind of scorched earth policy: get Rain and let my leads die, but inflict as much damage as possible first. Sometimes I do sweep whole teams with Croak and Starmie, but infequently.

Low Kick is pretty great against Meta, but I'm loathe to use it on its shiny metal ass simply because two of the DP Metas have QC. I went into this battle fearing that Meta would QC me every turn, and that every OHKO would hit (actually only 1 of 2 turns did QC activate, and 2 of 3 OHKOs hit). But getting Meta off my screen with Starmie's Sash intact would be gravy.

there like isnt even a PI poke that can stop sash starmie from getting rain up "probably", i'm not going to check the DP list to confirm but like ony duggy can outspeed starmie, ok i cheated and peeked and reminded myself that i didnt have to cause natures aren't listed which means the usual 16% chance duggy could even fissure your timid starmie.

Dugtrio would have to OHKO Starmie then Kingdra to prevent Rain Dance from this situation; not impossible. Things like this are the reason I always go for Rain - without Brightpowder hax, Dugtrio dies every time to Ludi and Kingdra. When it's raining, I don't have to bother thinking about speeds with those guys, since they outspeed everything in the BT!

as it would have played out with a turn 1 surf, you could RD against walrein/kingler (and be thankful that kingler doesnt have swift swim like it "could"), starmie survives no matter what, and you can thunder either one (especially dumbass walrein with its stupid brightpowder starmie doesnt care about) even if they kill toxicroak.

alternately, if you play it the way you did, you could have surfed kingler on turn 4. *the* reason, as i look at kingler's stats right now, that it is NU is the fact that it has 55HP/50SpD, which is even worse than i thought. if you add a very reasonable 25 points to both, you have 80/130/115/50/75/75 that still doesn't exactly make it a great pokemon, but its Special Defense is absolute shit. i dont blame you for not knowing this, but surf does 30% on average even to the incredibly self-conscious, HP/SpD EVed Kingler, meaning that it could have died to Surf+GK since GK did ~70%. you would then have been able to thunder walrein's gay ass back to the north pole the next turn since starmie would have been alive no matter what thanks to sash, and also kingler doesn't outspeed starmie even after salac because of all its special overcompensation (unlike in Plat).

I had no idea Kingler's HP/SpD were so lame when I was playing - I would have used Surf/GK if I had, you're right. Ludi could possibly have finished Walrein on turn 5. Walrein is on my 'kill list' from here on in, along with Lati@s, Metagross and Golduck. Seriously - just before this battle, I nearly got beaten by a Golduck. Cloud Nine really fucks me up, and it can have Psychic attacks to threaten Croak to boot.

so even if you didn't get rain up turn 1, i think you are ultimately going to feel pretty good about these words here because they mean your team is still awesome and you just need to get used to it more.

Kind words indeed. I'm still learning how to get the most from this team. Specifically, how to best deal with hax monsters...

QC Explosions are a big problem still. This team is all offense, so no Protects or Subs (Sub is kind of useless in doubles anyway). There's no slot for a Ghost on the team either. I did look at Kabutops, though:

Kabutops @ Liechi Berry
Adamant, Swift Swim
200 HP, 252 Atk, 50 Spe or thereabouts

Endure
Waterfall
X-Scissor
Rock Slide

The idea being that it Endures while the foe Explodes or whatever and/or its partner Surfs, activating Liechi. In the Rain, it outspeeds everything, and its +1 Rain Waterfall is fucking fierce. High risk, but I'm not sure the reward is greater than Ludi or Kingdra. Once it's Endured, a single Mach Punch and it's gone. The fact that most things with a Quick Claw also have Earthquake is a problem too.

That said, it gives the team something else to smack Blissey around with. Currently, if Croak dies, then Blissey is a huge problem. Blissey 1, Counter/Toxic/Softboiled/DT @ Lefties, is horrific - it can wipe out the rest of the team easily. Luckily for me, only Collector Kelton uses that one, so I'm extra paranoid with Croak until I've seen his whole team.

Thanks for the feedback - I'm sure this team can crack 200 wins eventually...

[lildragon]

Long time reader, first time poster.

I just wanted to share my pokemon diamond doubles team. I don't currently have an image to show my streak, but i have so far reached 217 wins and have yet to lose. If anybody can suggest to me a place to host images, i can show proof later. So here is my team:

Infernape @ choice band
jolly 252 atk, 252 spe, 4 hp
flare blitz
close combat
thunderpunch
mach punch

Zapdos @ life orb
modest 252 spa, 252 spe, 4 hp
thunderbolt
heat wave
hidden power (grass)
roost

Metagross @ leftovers
adamant 252 hp, 252 atk, 4 def
iron head
earthquake
thunderpunch
bullet punch

Garchomp @ yache berry
jolly 252 atk, 252 spe, 4 hp
outrage
earthquake
swords dance
protect

Infernape and zapdos work well together. Infernape can one hit kill a LOT of things with closecombat or flareblitz with the help of choice band. Zapdos takes care of many annoying water types especially the hax sheer colders. Together, so long as there are no quick claw activations, infernape and zapdos take care of all sheer colders.

One of the biggest reasons i decided to use zapdos is because i've previously had trouble with trick room, especially from slowbro and slowking. Modest zapdos and life orb takes care of them almost guaranteed. Only slowking with 252 evs in special defense has a chance of not getting one hit killed.

If either infernape or zapdos dies, i usually switch to metagross who has saved me countless times. Metagross is my biggest tank and often takes care of lati@s, which is very useful to me because they have the potential to beat my team otherwise. Infernape usually dies first and when i switch in, metagross joins zapdos to form the great partnership that Peterko had mentioned before.

With the combination of fire/fight, electric, and steel type pokemon, ice types are surely eliminated. With ice types properly taken care of, the few times garchomp actually goes into battle, he is left to kill unhindered with a yache berry just in case a non-ice type uses an ice type move. Protect on garchomp acts as a great lure because if i am stuck with garchomp and metagross and i face a dragon or an ice type, i know they will attack garchomp so i protect to block the incoming attacks and metagross manages to kill one of their threats leaving me with 2 on 1.

EDIT: I reached 224 wins and I have proof now

[CBshuckle]

Hey everybody, I'm amazed by all these high streaks and I'm inspired to go for something. I was wondering, in Battle Tower Singles if I don't really want to use a trick team (even though I know that they are the best), are all-out or mostly all-out offensive teams viable to get 100 or 200+?

[Head Honchkrow]

I've got a question about using Registeel.

When the opponent's lead gets locked into a low-PP move (like Stone Edge, Draco Meteor, etc.), what is the best course of action to take? Obviously it would be impossible for Steel to fully set up, so what's the most important thing to do?

[ungulateman]

Actually, Steel can setup on a lot of weaker Pokemon's Struggles, Latias and other special attackers in particular. Generally having your other pokemon setup is more effective against physical attackers.

[lildragon]

Originally Posted by Fat Head Honchkrow

I've got a question about using Registeel.

When the opponent's lead gets locked into a low-PP move (like Stone Edge, Draco Meteor, etc.), what is the best course of action to take? Obviously it would be impossible for Steel to fully set up, so what's the most important thing to do?

What i would do in that situation is count how many times the opponent has used that move. As soon as it has been used 5 times, that means the next time it attacks will be struggle. So the strategy is to set up sub on registeel to prevent any crits and increase whichever stat is needed to take less damage, basically just stalling. As soon as struggle is about to be used, you switch in garchomp, sub, and then swords dance up. Garchomp should have enough time to set up before your opponent struggles to death.

Of course, this is only assuming garchomp can't set up initially.

[Bozo]

only quick, and no time to read everything since i was here last, but i went past 413 a couple of days ago. not much since then... hope you're all having a great Christmas!