Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - VGC edition

makiri · Apr 19th, 2010, 9:31:49 PM

Its the VGC edition of everyone's favorite thread, the VGC often has very specific questions that may get lost in the usual Stark SQSA thread, so use this for anything VGC related.

The rules:

1. Your answers should contain at least a brief explanation, even if it was the simplest of questions.
2. While answering Yes/No question, please quote the question you're referring to. It gets confusing otherwise.
3. At least do a simple google search before asking the question here.
4. We have a lot of excellent resources on our site. Be sure to check our articles, and not just for DP, before asking here. Our item and move descriptions are also a handy resource. You may be able to answer your own question with those resources faster than it would take for someone to respond to your question in this thread.
5. On a related note of #4. If you answer an extremely simple question such as "What does the Yache Berry do?", instead of just answering the question direct them to the appropriate link (in this case http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/yache_berry) so they will know where to find that type of information in the future without coming to this thread. Likewise, if a member asks for a damage calculation link them to a damage calculator.
6. This isn't the thread for "Look At This Pokemon" or "Should I keep it with these IVs" etc., use this thread (forgive me if I forget to update this link if a new thread is created, I'll try to keep up with it).
7. This is already in the Smogon and Stark forum rules, but I will reiterate again do not discuss ROMs or other illegal things. Also, don't ask for AR codes here. Use google for that. And do not ask how to beat hack checks.

J-Man27 · Apr 19th, 2010, 9:36:27 PM

Oh wow, this will be a great help.

Anywho, is a Trick Room/Rain Dance team a viable option? If so, could I please have some insight on how it could be pulled off? I already have a few ideas. Thanks in advance

tr4q · Apr 19th, 2010, 10:04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat J-Man27

Oh wow, this will be a great help.

Anywho, is a Trick Room/Rain Dance team a viable option? If so, could I please have some insight on how it could be pulled off? I already have a few ideas. Thanks in advance

I'm currently using something along the lines of:

TR Dialga
Fake Out lead (Toxicroak, Smeargle)
Kyogre
Filler (Slowking, Abomasnow, and more)

I've tested it and it has had some success.

drcossack · Apr 19th, 2010, 10:05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat J-Man27

Oh wow, this will be a great help.

Anywho, is a Trick Room/Rain Dance team a viable option? If so, could I please have some insight on how it could be pulled off? I already have a few ideas. Thanks in advance

Yes. Weavile for Fake Out to ensure it goes off, or Brave Metagross with Hammer Arm to 2HKO Dialga. Partner them with a Dialga, and put Kyogre and something else in the back. Make sure your other backup Pokemon doesn't have Swift Swim.

Ferrouswheel · Apr 19th, 2010, 11:28:22 PM

Out of curiosity, how do they hack check? Not in terms of what do they check for, but how does it work? Do we trade our pokes over to them and they have a special cartridge, or what?

Feathers · Apr 19th, 2010, 11:36:16 PM

Quote:

Out of curiosity, how do they hack check? Not in terms of what do they check for, but how does it work? Do we trade our pokes over to them and they have a special cartridge, or what?

They take your cartridge from you and put it in a separate box like thing. Takes a few seconds. I think some places had DS systems with a strange GBA insert.

ultimatedra · Apr 19th, 2010, 11:42:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ferrouswheel

Out of curiosity, how do they hack check? Not in terms of what do they check for, but how does it work? Do we trade our pokes over to them and they have a special cartridge, or what?

This thread will explain everything you need to know about hack checks:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announc...hp?f=127&a=125

Ferrouswheel · Apr 19th, 2010, 11:47:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Feathers

They take your cartridge from you and put it in a separate box like thing. Takes a few seconds. I think some places had DS systems with a strange GBA insert.

Thats cool, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ultimatedra

This thread will explain everything you need to know about hack checks:
http://www.smogon.com/forums/announc...hp?f=127&a=125

...

Maybe if you read the post you are linking me to and what I had posted, you'd realize that I was neither asking how to beat a hack check, or what they look for. I was asking what a hack check looked like, so I can understand how someone who doesn't entirely take the time to read thinks might get confused. For next time, reading is good for you.

Muse · Apr 20th, 2010, 12:18:52 AM

Although I'm pretty sure on the "correct" answer, but i'll ask regardless. Which is more effective, Anti-leading, then bringing out weather, or leading with weather? I'd like to hear a variety of opinons.

viperGTS · Apr 20th, 2010, 1:27:32 AM

I'd say being anti weather first, especially if you don't have a backup weather inducer.

Collardragon · Apr 20th, 2010, 1:37:19 AM

I'm a noob when it comes to competitive battling so I was wondering... Is sending out two walls first that spam effects a good idea or should I have at least one Attacker out?

Muse · Apr 20th, 2010, 1:58:32 AM

Well to be honest, you're looking at the whole idea of leading in the wrong way. you need to have a strategy, not just go out there and say "i want to run the bulkiest of walls which will leave me undefeated". Now I know thats a pretty _extreme_ way to put it but, you see my point right? Look at it more like this.

Ask yourself these three key questions:

What do I want accomplished?

How will I aqquire what I desire?

What could prevent me from obtaining sucess?

Use those and you can be sucessful, with many many things, both inside and outside of pokemon. :p

And to answer the question more directly; You need a balance of bulk, pace and offense. For example, leading with something like CM Gira-O + Dual Screens Mewtwo. The only thing that could beat that combo as a lead is hax itself.

Collardragon · Apr 20th, 2010, 2:44:53 AM

Well I was thinking of a Great Wall Lugia spamming reflect, toxic and whirlwind while a Mixpert Swampert spams stealth rock and earthquake to start... is that in any way viable or am I trying to hard to make something work that cant?

Firestorm · Apr 20th, 2010, 2:53:45 AM

I don't think there's enough switching in 4v4 doubles for Stealth Rock to be worth the turn.

Collardragon · Apr 20th, 2010, 2:58:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Firestorm

I don't think there's enough switching in 4v4 doubles for Stealth Rock to be worth the turn.

Thats why I have whirlwind, but like I said this will be my first time competing so if this is not a good idea I will switch my team line up again... I have just been stressing over what to run for a rain dance team lead that I really don't know what to do

drug_duck · Apr 20th, 2010, 3:09:16 AM

Your team idea and your terminology which is coming from the Smogon 1on1 analyses is an incorrect approach to the VGC. Smogon's analyses do not provide information for VGC at the moment.

Also, Stealth Rock IS viable. There are times when you can get down Stealth Rock. That is all I will say.

What do you guys think about Giratina-O?

~~Epic Cherubi~~ · Apr 20th, 2010, 4:09:16 AM

I'm not sure how effective my VGC team is.

Palkia + Latios. It could make heavy hits early on with dual Surf (hurting most Smeargle combos) and crush shit with dual-Draco Meteors. My other two pokes are Brave Metagross (so I'm not completely buttfucked by Trick Room) and a Brave Giratina. Protect stalling Trick Room isn't impossible but I'm afraid of Smeargle.

** Latios takes just 19.60% - 23.26% from Palkia's Surf.

SupremeDirt · Apr 20th, 2010, 10:29:40 AM

Trying to get myself into the proper mindset for the tournament, any generic teams that someone could direct me to?

Wichu · Apr 20th, 2010, 11:17:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Epic Cherubi

I'm not sure how effective my VGC team is.

Palkia + Latios. It could make heavy hits early on with dual Surf (hurting most Smeargle combos) and crush shit with dual-Draco Meteors. My other two pokes are Brave Metagross (so I'm not completely buttfucked by Trick Room) and a Brave Giratina. Protect stalling Trick Room isn't impossible but I'm afraid of Smeargle.

** Latios takes just 19.60% - 23.26% from Palkia's Surf.

Just watch out for Sun teams, which weaken your Surfs. Also, if the opponents double Protect, you're only hurting yourself.
Without a Scarf or Lum/Chesto Berry, Scarf Smeargle screws you over. Also, have you got a way to beat Abomasnow/Mewtwo leads? Fire Blast or Flamethrower on Palkia could come in useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Death Incarnate

Trying to get myself into the proper mindset for the tournament, any generic teams that someone could direct me to?

Kyogre/Ludicolo/Palkia/Kingdra.

SupremeDirt · Apr 20th, 2010, 11:28:14 AM

Thanks. I'll start testing as soon as I can.

Also, what are people running on Lugia? I've seen a CM set or two from watching vids, but I'm sure there must be a bunch of other things. I'm thinking perhaps Icy Wind and Dual Screen...

Also, viability of Muddy Water over Surf? Probably unnecessary unless I build some team where I don't want to hit my partner Pokémon, but any thoughts on that? The lower accuracy could hurt.

drcossack · Apr 20th, 2010, 12:04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

Kyogre/Ludicolo/Palkia/Kingdra.

Hope you got a Fire or status attack (ie Toxic/Leech Seed), otherwise it's "Hi, I'm Shedinja."

Wichu · Apr 20th, 2010, 12:07:35 PM

I was only half-serious; that's pretty much the state of the metagame. Anyway, it should still be pretty solid; you could run Fire Blast on Palkia, or HP Fire on Kyogre (beats lead Abomasnow too).

drcossack · Apr 20th, 2010, 12:16:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

I was only half-serious; that's pretty much the state of the metagame. Anyway, it should still be pretty solid; you could run Fire Blast on Palkia, or HP Fire on Kyogre (beats lead Abomasnow too).

Oh, I know, and I agree, it'll work. Still, it has a few glaring weaknesses...but there's no such thing as a perfect team.

Purimpopoie · Apr 20th, 2010, 1:03:26 PM

Since I may run into other people from this website at whatever event I end up going to...

How do you pronounce "Smogon"?

DaRealPlayaa · Apr 20th, 2010, 5:12:43 PM

Do you think that Groudon and Ho-Oh is a good lead for a sun team?

Apr 19th, 2010, 9:31:49 PM	#1
makiri La-li-lu-le-lo Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 4,160 SHARK ATTACK	Ask a simple question, get a simple answer - VGC edition Its the VGC edition of everyone's favorite thread, the VGC often has very specific questions that may get lost in the usual Stark SQSA thread, so use this for anything VGC related. The rules: 1. Your answers should contain at least a brief explanation, even if it was the simplest of questions. 2. While answering Yes/No question, please quote the question you're referring to. It gets confusing otherwise. 3. At least do a simple google search before asking the question here. 4. We have a lot of excellent resources on our site. Be sure to check our articles, and not just for DP, before asking here. Our item and move descriptions are also a handy resource. You may be able to answer your own question with those resources faster than it would take for someone to respond to your question in this thread. 5. On a related note of #4. If you answer an extremely simple question such as "What does the Yache Berry do?", instead of just answering the question direct them to the appropriate link (in this case http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/yache_berry) so they will know where to find that type of information in the future without coming to this thread. Likewise, if a member asks for a damage calculation link them to a damage calculator. 6. This isn't the thread for "Look At This Pokemon" or "Should I keep it with these IVs" etc., use this thread (forgive me if I forget to update this link if a new thread is created, I'll try to keep up with it). 7. This is already in the Smogon and Stark forum rules, but I will reiterate again do not discuss ROMs or other illegal things. Also, don't ask for AR codes here. Use google for that. And do not ask how to beat hack checks. __________________ Last edited by Solace; Aug 11th, 2012 at 4:06:17 PM.

Apr 19th, 2010, 9:36:27 PM	#2
J-Man27 Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 839 AZ....too hot.....	Oh wow, this will be a great help. Anywho, is a Trick Room/Rain Dance team a viable option? If so, could I please have some insight on how it could be pulled off? I already have a few ideas. Thanks in advance __________________ FC: 3308 1529 3332. *http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37612* The Goodwill^^^^^^^^ Avatar goes to Phox. Brawl FC: 0258-9968-8446

Apr 19th, 2010, 11:28:22 PM	#5
Ferrouswheel Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 805 Riding a Ferriswheel	Out of curiosity, how do they hack check? Not in terms of what do they check for, but how does it work? Do we trade our pokes over to them and they have a special cartridge, or what? __________________ There is nothing to fear, but fear itself, and the ghost of FDR.

Apr 20th, 2010, 1:27:32 AM	#10
viperGTS Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 744 California	I'd say being anti weather first, especially if you don't have a backup weather inducer. __________________ All FC's are on my profile. If you're one of the few bass players on Smogon, copy and paste this into your signature– Started by Rezon Pokemon Video Game Regional Championships 2010 Phoenix Top 16

Apr 20th, 2010, 2:53:45 AM	#14
Firestorm I did my best, I have no regrets! Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 7,261 Vancouver, BC	I don't think there's enough switching in 4v4 doubles for Stealth Rock to be worth the turn. __________________

Apr 20th, 2010, 12:18:52 AM	#9
Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 92 I Hunger! Run! Run! Run!	Although I'm pretty sure on the "correct" answer, but i'll ask regardless. Which is more effective, Anti-leading, then bringing out weather, or leading with weather? I'd like to hear a variety of opinons.

Apr 20th, 2010, 1:37:19 AM	#11
Collardragon Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	I'm a noob when it comes to competitive battling so I was wondering... Is sending out two walls first that spam effects a good idea or should I have at least one Attacker out?

Apr 20th, 2010, 1:58:32 AM	#12
Muse Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 92 I Hunger! Run! Run! Run!	Well to be honest, you're looking at the whole idea of leading in the wrong way. you need to have a strategy, not just go out there and say "i want to run the bulkiest of walls which will leave me undefeated". Now I know thats a pretty _extreme_ way to put it but, you see my point right? Look at it more like this. Ask yourself these three key questions: What do I want accomplished? How will I aqquire what I desire? What could prevent me from obtaining sucess? Use those and you can be sucessful, with many many things, both inside and outside of pokemon. :p And to answer the question more directly; You need a balance of bulk, pace and offense. For example, leading with something like CM Gira-O + Dual Screens Mewtwo. The only thing that could beat that combo as a lead is hax itself.

Apr 20th, 2010, 2:44:53 AM	#13
Collardragon Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 11	Well I was thinking of a Great Wall Lugia spamming reflect, toxic and whirlwind while a Mixpert Swampert spams stealth rock and earthquake to start... is that in any way viable or am I trying to hard to make something work that cant?

Apr 20th, 2010, 3:09:16 AM	#16
drug_duck Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 325 Erlangen, Germany	Your team idea and your terminology which is coming from the Smogon 1on1 analyses is an incorrect approach to the VGC. Smogon's analyses do not provide information for VGC at the moment. Also, Stealth Rock IS viable. There are times when you can get down Stealth Rock. That is all I will say. What do you guys think about Giratina-O? __________________ German VGC Runner-up 2009 VGC Germany 2011: Qualified for Worlds

Apr 20th, 2010, 4:09:16 AM	#17
~~Epic Cherubi~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 239	I'm not sure how effective my VGC team is. Palkia + Latios. It could make heavy hits early on with dual Surf (hurting most Smeargle combos) and crush shit with dual-Draco Meteors. My other two pokes are Brave Metagross (so I'm not completely buttfucked by Trick Room) and a Brave Giratina. Protect stalling Trick Room isn't impossible but I'm afraid of Smeargle. ** Latios takes just 19.60% - 23.26% from Palkia's Surf.

Apr 20th, 2010, 10:29:40 AM	#18
SupremeDirt Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 552	Trying to get myself into the proper mindset for the tournament, any generic teams that someone could direct me to?

Apr 20th, 2010, 11:28:14 AM	#20
SupremeDirt Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 552	Thanks. I'll start testing as soon as I can. Also, what are people running on Lugia? I've seen a CM set or two from watching vids, but I'm sure there must be a bunch of other things. I'm thinking perhaps Icy Wind and Dual Screen... Also, viability of Muddy Water over Surf? Probably unnecessary unless I build some team where I don't want to hit my partner Pokémon, but any thoughts on that? The lower accuracy could hurt.

Apr 20th, 2010, 12:07:35 PM	#22
Wichu ACUPRESSURE Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,508 Cambridge, England	I was only half-serious; that's pretty much the state of the metagame. Anyway, it should still be pretty solid; you could run Fire Blast on Palkia, or HP Fire on Kyogre (beats lead Abomasnow too). __________________

Apr 20th, 2010, 1:03:26 PM	#24
Purimpopoie Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 346	Since I may run into other people from this website at whatever event I end up going to... How do you pronounce "Smogon"?

Apr 20th, 2010, 5:12:43 PM	#25
DaRealPlayaa Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7 Mtl,QC	Do you think that Groudon and Ho-Oh is a good lead for a sun team?