np: UU - Rain Drops Keep Falling on my Head - Page 96

Thund91 · May 2nd, 2010, 4:49:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lonewolf9196

Huh, never thought of using Return. What do you use it over? I use Sucker Punch, Shadow Sneak, Pursuit, and Trick. Maybe over Pursuit, but that is probably the most important move on the set for getting rid of Chansey and Psychic-types. I guess Spiritomb would be better on a defensive team for its good typing and Skuntank would be better on an offensive team for its brute force.

I use it over Shadow Sneak. I never found that move useful since Mismagius can't OHKO with +2 Shadow Ball anyway if you're healthy, and Pursuit OHKOs. Without Return Spiritomb gives Houndoom an easy time to set up and sweep. It was also useful against SubCM Raikou, and hitting Fighting-types like Hariyama and Hitmontop/Lee harder.

GMLW · May 2nd, 2010, 4:51:04 PM

I guess, but reliable priority comes in handy quite often. I'll have to give Return a try though.

Rolf · May 2nd, 2010, 5:14:45 PM

Quick post to say that mono-normal + pursuit support (cbtomb on my team) absolutely rapes. Cosmic Power/Belly Drum Toxic Orb Facade Clefable, Tauros, Miltank, Licky, SWELLOW, so on... All of them work together to weaken steels then win.

Speaking of which - the ultimate steel lure: SubEndeavor Swellow! Sub on the switch to steelix/aggron/regi, endeavor as they break sub, then U-turn to something fun. Facade to keep your endgame power, flame orb as item. Works like a charm, especially with pursuit support.

GMLW · May 2nd, 2010, 5:22:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rolfkip

Speaking of which - the ultimate steel lure: SubEndeavor Swellow! Sub on the switch to steelix/aggron/regi, endeavor as they break sub, then U-turn to something fun. Facade to keep your endgame power, flame orb as item. Works like a charm, especially with pursuit support.

This may be the best gimmick set ever. Now lets watch as every other team on the ladder will have one after five minutes.

Thund91 · May 2nd, 2010, 5:28:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rolfkip

Speaking of which - the ultimate steel lure: SubEndeavor Swellow! Sub on the switch to steelix/aggron/regi, endeavor as they break sub, then U-turn to something fun. Facade to keep your endgame power, flame orb as item. Works like a charm, especially with pursuit support.

Lol I used SubPass Endeavor a while back and it was really effective. Works really well with things that can set up on Swellows counters like Rhyperior and Registeel (hint, use Torterra).

And this running gag of the mega thread influencing the ladder isn't going to end, is it? ;_;

MegaKick · May 2nd, 2010, 5:43:33 PM

Bulky Lass+Swellow+Moltres+Raikou is one of the most broken cores right now. Add in a donphan to set up stealth rock, spin, revenge things like swellow with ice shard, giving you more priority and letting you revnge without revealing swellow or raikou, plus an anti-lead, and you have a solid team. Bulky Lass makes a great pivot outside of the lead position. Say for example I have moltres in, and milotic comes out. I need to get raikou in to revenge. But if it's offensive, raikou could take a big hit from hydro pump. Just go to lass! Set up a layer or two of spikes, die, and bring in the revenger.
Swellow also does awesome with spikes, since donphan can setup on it's counters, and moltres can force out it's counters and since most hate spikes (registeel, steelix, aggron) with a little prior damage (which is easy to get, since these like to switch into raikou who can weaken with t-bolt) next time it comes in, Swellow can just muclse through some, like registeel, while others can be easily forced out again. Seriously, swellow does like 24% to registeel with facade after toxic orb activates and easily 2hkos donphan, but it has ice shard, so you should switch. (based on experience). While swellow is easily walled on it's own (not broken) moltres can easily switch in and fire off flamethrowers to kill (offensively broken) and shares a lot of checks and counters with other dangerous pokemon which it can weaken and stops their other counters. (Support Characteristic). Froslass can set up spikes to easy, everyone and their mothers prepare for it, yet, when used outside of lead (which only i seam to be doing) can easily get up many layers of spikes (support). Raikou, while coming close to offensive and defensive characteristics, is only broken with spikes support-provided by lass.
I've never used dugtrio.

Uberiffic's final verdict:
Moltres: broken
Raikou: If lass stays, broken, otherwise, very close but not broken
Froslass: Fun to abuse, but we need to ban this bitch. Broken
Dugtrio: N/A, but from what ive seen, not broken. Too weak.

P.S. @ roflkip: while usefull for mono-normal, swellow has no business running a set just to stop steels, it can u-turn away, and there are much better steel killers; donphan, moltres, magneton, etc.

P.S.S. I find it funny that when theorymoning, everyone thought dugtrio would be broken and donphan would eventually fall into obscurity. When they came down, donphan ruled, dugtrio sucked. Now, dugtrio is suspect, and I never see donphan. Of course, with yanmega gone, and moltres will probably be gone soon, he has little to spin for. Especielly when he cant touch swellow with the standard (as I see) set of ice shard, earthquake, spin, stealth rock.

P.S.S.S. damn that was a long post.

M BLADE · May 2nd, 2010, 5:48:48 PM

I always think that those Swellow/Froslass/Moltres cores are easily taken off by RP Aggron. Come in on Swellow, RP, good game.
Donphan? Well, unless it has Roar, it won' do much against RP Magnet Rise Aggron (hello people: that's the best RP Aggron set).

**capefeather** · May 2nd, 2010, 6:22:34 PM

^Swellow used U-turn.

M BLADE · May 2nd, 2010, 6:28:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat capefeather

^Swellow used U-turn.

Yeah, like i wouldn't know when Swellow uses it...
It's, like, always. Just wait for a opening (a sacrifice, maybe), and voila!
Never blind switch Aggron on Swellow. That's too obvious.

Besides: Froslass is in. Aggron switches. Free Head Smash. Hurt.

Bluewind · May 2nd, 2010, 6:47:27 PM

Hi my name is Milotic/Blastoise/Fighting-type and I'm supporting those other 4 pokés (By the way I really don't know why Blastoise isn't used more often, I gotta say it's the most reliable spinner I've ever used, except maybe for Hitmontop, who doesn't have the awesome Water-typing).

M BLADE · May 2nd, 2010, 6:50:45 PM

Hi, i don't have a name. But i'm a friend of Aggron's and i'm on his team.
He's cranky but i like him.

Bluewind · May 2nd, 2010, 6:54:44 PM

Hi, that post made no sense at all because the way you talk it sounds like your support can trap and kill all of Aggron checks; as if your opponent didn't know he'll get swept if you remove his Blastoise, Registeel and Torterra (just listing the teams I see everywhere).

M BLADE · May 2nd, 2010, 6:59:37 PM

No, i'm saying there's a whole 5 pokes for you to worry about. You say like a fighting poke/Blatoise is Aggron's bane and he's lost once they came in.
Like Aggron can't switch out...

Don't try to deny it.

shrang · May 2nd, 2010, 7:25:53 PM

Saw the Growth Venusaur set on the last page, and I do think it's quite interesting. Like the SD set, it will get walled by something (At least if you're carrying Sleep Powder). This makes me wonder, would it be worth it dropping Sleep Powder for an extra coverage move?? Something like Growth/Energy Ball/Sludge Bomb/HP Ground or similarly on the SD set: SD/Power Whip/EQ/Return or Outrage. Yes, Venusaur probably lost one of its assets in Sleep Powder, but now it can hit so many more targets.

IronBullet93 · May 2nd, 2010, 7:30:29 PM

Interesting, but the problem is it loses out on the practically free set-up that Sleep Powder provides, which is what makes Venusaur so dangerous in the first place.

M BLADE · May 2nd, 2010, 7:30:46 PM

Does anyone here tried Curse Venusaur once?

Just asking.

Vakama3 · May 2nd, 2010, 7:42:06 PM

I'm looking foward to the next round as a good restarting point. I've been a little too busy lately for Shoddy and haven't really sat down and played since the days of Crobat (</3). Since my schedule is slowing down a bit and I finally found my old team (why did it HAVE to be in the temp folder? :\) I guess I should get back to work.

Hopefully at least Froslass manages to get outed this round. Most of my teams had Electrode leads (or Crobat when he was around) and I'm starting to get just a liiiiitle bored of always having the same plan all the time: Taunt to stop spikers, trickers, and status mons, Rain Dance/Light Screen to set up, Explosion so Electrode hopefully damages something, and Thunder/Thunderbolt if Electrode actually manages to live.

shrang · May 2nd, 2010, 7:44:02 PM

Quote:

I'm looking foward to the next round as a good restarting point.

Hopefully Heracross stays in OU, heh??

Bluewind · May 2nd, 2010, 7:53:50 PM

@M Blade: Same for the other team.

And yeah, playtesting Heracross sounds quite reduntant to me when we've banned Gallade; so I suppose the only things we'll be getting is Tentacruel (not too soon though).

Vakama3 · May 2nd, 2010, 7:56:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

Hopefully Heracross stays in OU, heh??

The entire metagame would suddenly be overfulling with Heracross(es?), Heracross counters, and Pokemon that function as a weaker NU Heracross used by people who are "too cool to use Heracross". Every other post would be "THAT HERACROSS SURE IS BL" and "HERACROSS IS FORCED OUT ONCE BY A SINGLE POKEMON UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS IT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT BROKEN".

The metagame would be RUINED FOREVER (again) and we'd have to wait a whole month to have a chance to attempt to kick it out (which would probably fail multiple times). Right after we do, some other overpowered Pokemon drops down and we repeat the process.

yondie · May 2nd, 2010, 8:03:44 PM

I really want to play test Heracross, and maybe this isn't supposed to be discussed here, but what are we looking at for possible OU pokemon dropping down.

Tentacruel? Heracross?

Folgorio · May 2nd, 2010, 8:11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Vakama3

The entire metagame would suddenly be overfulling with Heracross(es?), Heracross counters, and Pokemon that function as a weaker NU Heracross used by people who are "too cool to use Heracross". Every other post would be "THAT HERACROSS SURE IS BL" and "HERACROSS IS FORCED OUT ONCE BY A SINGLE POKEMON UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS IT IS OBVIOUSLY NOT BROKEN".

The metagame would be RUINED FOREVER (again) and we'd have to wait a whole month to have a chance to attempt to kick it out (which would probably fail multiple times). Right after we do, some other overpowered Pokemon drops down and we repeat the process.

Can you teach me how to be psychic?

Insomniac. · May 2nd, 2010, 8:11:04 PM

Tentacruel seems like it would fit in well. Duskinoir? Hippodowon?

Yuggles · May 2nd, 2010, 8:33:13 PM

Tentacruel and Dusknoir would probably be fine. If Hippowdon dropped in then Venasaur and Milotic would be even more centralized...I don't think anyone would like that. and Hippowdon himself would just be a pain in the ass.

Yuggles · May 2nd, 2010, 8:34:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Yuggles

Tentacruel and Dusknoir would probably be fine. If Hippowdon dropped in then Venasaur and Milotic would be even more centralized...I don't think anyone would like that. And Hippowdon himself would just be a pain in the ass, considering his great attack power and ability to take special hits surprisingly well thanks to his huge HP.

May 2nd, 2010, 5:14:45 PM	#2378
Rolf Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 898 Dangerous Mercenary	Quick post to say that mono-normal + pursuit support (cbtomb on my team) absolutely rapes. Cosmic Power/Belly Drum Toxic Orb Facade Clefable, Tauros, Miltank, Licky, SWELLOW, so on... All of them work together to weaken steels then win. Speaking of which - the ultimate steel lure: SubEndeavor Swellow! Sub on the switch to steelix/aggron/regi, endeavor as they break sub, then U-turn to something fun. Facade to keep your endgame power, flame orb as item. Works like a charm, especially with pursuit support. __________________ <%Reyscarface> Be a user that makes people think "man imagine what would happen if he quit" and try not to make the answer "thanks god" Awesome avatar by Fatecrashers

May 2nd, 2010, 5:48:48 PM	#2382
M BLADE Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,226 On a fairy tale. Not cool	I always think that those Swellow/Froslass/Moltres cores are easily taken off by RP Aggron. Come in on Swellow, RP, good game. Donphan? Well, unless it has Roar, it won' do much against RP Magnet Rise Aggron (hello people: that's the best RP Aggron set). __________________ M-BLADE: Saying nonsense since 1988. Owner of the best signatures ever. Ditto.

May 2nd, 2010, 6:47:27 PM	#2385
Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fear into the hearts of any sane battler and my thorny vines drop the opposing forces just an iron ball plowing into a man's genitals. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,302 Bloo's fancy mansion	Hi my name is Milotic/Blastoise/Fighting-type and I'm supporting those other 4 pokés (By the way I really don't know why Blastoise isn't used more often, I gotta say it's the most reliable spinner I've ever used, except maybe for Hitmontop, who doesn't have the awesome Water-typing). __________________

May 2nd, 2010, 6:50:45 PM	#2386
M BLADE Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,226 On a fairy tale. Not cool	Hi, i don't have a name. But i'm a friend of Aggron's and i'm on his team. He's cranky but i like him. __________________ M-BLADE: Saying nonsense since 1988. Owner of the best signatures ever. Ditto.

May 2nd, 2010, 6:54:44 PM	#2387
Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fear into the hearts of any sane battler and my thorny vines drop the opposing forces just an iron ball plowing into a man's genitals. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,302 Bloo's fancy mansion	Hi, that post made no sense at all because the way you talk it sounds like your support can trap and kill all of Aggron checks; as if your opponent didn't know he'll get swept if you remove his Blastoise, Registeel and Torterra (just listing the teams I see everywhere). __________________

May 2nd, 2010, 4:51:04 PM	#2377
GMLW Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 874 ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD	I guess, but reliable priority comes in handy quite often. I'll have to give Return a try though.

May 2nd, 2010, 5:43:33 PM	#2381
MegaKick Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,452 Out getting milk	Bulky Lass+Swellow+Moltres+Raikou is one of the most broken cores right now. Add in a donphan to set up stealth rock, spin, revenge things like swellow with ice shard, giving you more priority and letting you revnge without revealing swellow or raikou, plus an anti-lead, and you have a solid team. Bulky Lass makes a great pivot outside of the lead position. Say for example I have moltres in, and milotic comes out. I need to get raikou in to revenge. But if it's offensive, raikou could take a big hit from hydro pump. Just go to lass! Set up a layer or two of spikes, die, and bring in the revenger. Swellow also does awesome with spikes, since donphan can setup on it's counters, and moltres can force out it's counters and since most hate spikes (registeel, steelix, aggron) with a little prior damage (which is easy to get, since these like to switch into raikou who can weaken with t-bolt) next time it comes in, Swellow can just muclse through some, like registeel, while others can be easily forced out again. Seriously, swellow does like 24% to registeel with facade after toxic orb activates and easily 2hkos donphan, but it has ice shard, so you should switch. (based on experience). While swellow is easily walled on it's own (not broken) moltres can easily switch in and fire off flamethrowers to kill (offensively broken) and shares a lot of checks and counters with other dangerous pokemon which it can weaken and stops their other counters. (Support Characteristic). Froslass can set up spikes to easy, everyone and their mothers prepare for it, yet, when used outside of lead (which only i seam to be doing) can easily get up many layers of spikes (support). Raikou, while coming close to offensive and defensive characteristics, is only broken with spikes support-provided by lass. I've never used dugtrio. Uberiffic's final verdict: Moltres: broken Raikou: If lass stays, broken, otherwise, very close but not broken Froslass: Fun to abuse, but we need to ban this bitch. Broken Dugtrio: N/A, but from what ive seen, not broken. Too weak. P.S. @ roflkip: while usefull for mono-normal, swellow has no business running a set just to stop steels, it can u-turn away, and there are much better steel killers; donphan, moltres, magneton, etc. P.S.S. I find it funny that when theorymoning, everyone thought dugtrio would be broken and donphan would eventually fall into obscurity. When they came down, donphan ruled, dugtrio sucked. Now, dugtrio is suspect, and I never see donphan. Of course, with yanmega gone, and moltres will probably be gone soon, he has little to spin for. Especielly when he cant touch swellow with the standard (as I see) set of ice shard, earthquake, spin, stealth rock. P.S.S.S. damn that was a long post.

May 2nd, 2010, 6:22:34 PM	#2383
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,611 especially internet pirates	^Swellow used U-turn.

May 2nd, 2010, 6:59:37 PM	#2388
M BLADE Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,226 On a fairy tale. Not cool	No, i'm saying there's a whole 5 pokes for you to worry about. You say like a fighting poke/Blatoise is Aggron's bane and he's lost once they came in. Like Aggron can't switch out... Don't try to deny it. __________________ M-BLADE: Saying nonsense since 1988. Owner of the best signatures ever. Ditto.

May 2nd, 2010, 7:30:29 PM	#2390
IronBullet93 And we lived beneath the waves, in our yellow submarine Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,311 England	Interesting, but the problem is it loses out on the practically free set-up that Sleep Powder provides, which is what makes Venusaur so dangerous in the first place. __________________ <iconic> i just cheered for eo <iconic> fml <Eo Ut Mortus> lol smd

May 2nd, 2010, 7:30:46 PM	#2391
M BLADE Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,226 On a fairy tale. Not cool	Does anyone here tried Curse Venusaur once? Just asking. __________________ M-BLADE: Saying nonsense since 1988. Owner of the best signatures ever. Ditto.

May 2nd, 2010, 7:42:06 PM	#2392
Vakama3 Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	I'm looking foward to the next round as a good restarting point. I've been a little too busy lately for Shoddy and haven't really sat down and played since the days of Crobat (</3). Since my schedule is slowing down a bit and I finally found my old team (why did it HAVE to be in the temp folder? :\) I guess I should get back to work. Hopefully at least Froslass manages to get outed this round. Most of my teams had Electrode leads (or Crobat when he was around) and I'm starting to get just a liiiiitle bored of always having the same plan all the time: Taunt to stop spikers, trickers, and status mons, Rain Dance/Light Screen to set up, Explosion so Electrode hopefully damages something, and Thunder/Thunderbolt if Electrode actually manages to live.

May 2nd, 2010, 7:53:50 PM	#2394
Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fear into the hearts of any sane battler and my thorny vines drop the opposing forces just an iron ball plowing into a man's genitals. Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,302 Bloo's fancy mansion	@M Blade: Same for the other team. And yeah, playtesting Heracross sounds quite reduntant to me when we've banned Gallade; so I suppose the only things we'll be getting is Tentacruel (not too soon though). __________________

May 2nd, 2010, 8:03:44 PM	#2396
yondie the Hero Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,631	I really want to play test Heracross, and maybe this isn't supposed to be discussed here, but what are we looking at for possible OU pokemon dropping down. Tentacruel? Heracross? __________________

May 2nd, 2010, 8:11:04 PM	#2398
Insomniac. Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 282	Tentacruel seems like it would fit in well. Duskinoir? Hippodowon?

May 2nd, 2010, 8:33:13 PM	#2399
Yuggles hey that second guy isn't too bad Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 230	Tentacruel and Dusknoir would probably be fine. If Hippowdon dropped in then Venasaur and Milotic would be even more centralized...I don't think anyone would like that. and Hippowdon himself would just be a pain in the ass.