RNG Research

[Angel-Senshi]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

Pokéwalker Info

The Pokéwalker itself does not store the IVs/PID of captured Pokémon. They are generated when the Pokémon is transferred to HG/SS. This means it is abusable through more or less standard methods.

Seeding

The seed is created the usual way, with one major difference: it is created as soon as HG/SS is started, rather than when the Connect to Pokéwalker option is selected. This means the seconds value will be different (I get about 12 seconds less), and the delay is always 0. On the flip side, it makes hitting the correct seed very easy, as you only have to worry about the seconds (not the delay).

IVs

IVs are created the usual way (two LCRNG calls). This means the Wondercard IVs method in RNG Reporter will also work for the Pokéwalker.

However, on the Pokéwalker menu, there is no way to advance the frame manually (no radio, Elm calls etc). Thus, the only way to get a higher-frame spread is to capture and transfer multiple Pokémon from the Pokéwalker without exiting the Pokéwalker menu. Each transferred Pokémon advances the RNG by 2 frames. This means only odd-numbered frames are reachable. If multiple Pokémon are transferred at once, IVs are generated in the order the Pokémon were captured; assuming no frame advances, the first Pokémon captured is on frame 1, the second is on frame 3, and the third is on frame 5. As mentioned earlier, there is no other known way to advance the RNG; this means if you transfer a few Pokémon, the frame will stay the same until another transfer takes place (i.e. it does not reseed upon transfer).

If I undertood...
For the Seed 52140289 (All IVs 31) one of the dates is 11/01 at time 20:59:12 but if you say that the delay is always 0. Always the year of this seed is 2649?? o_o
And...
The frame required for this seed is 116, so... Can I tranfers 58 Pokemons from the Pokewalker to advance 116 frames??

Ops, Sorry if my English isn't 100% correcty, I'm Brazilian and not speek very well =x
Thanks

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Angel-Senshi

If I undertood...
For the Seed 52140289 (All IVs 31) one of the dates is 11/01 at time 20:59:12 but if you say that the delay is always 0. Always the year of this seed is 2649?? o_o
And...
The frame required for this seed is 116, so... Can I tranfers 58 Pokemons from the Pokewalker to advance 116 frames??

Ops, Sorry if my English isn't 100% correcty, I'm Brazilian and not speek very well =x
Thanks

The DS is limited to years 2000-2099. We'll have to find a different seed that can hit that 31\31\31\31\31\31 spread.

Wichu, am I correct in understanding that you can only hit seeds whose least significant bits range from 00-63, for each year between 2000 and 2099?

Assuming this is correct, all the spreads listed in the attached .zip file should be reasonably easy to obtain. All the spreads listed are limited to frames 1-100.

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

The DS is limited to years 2000-2099. We'll have to find a different seed that can hit that 31\31\31\31\31\31 spread.

Wichu, am I correct in understanding that you can only hit seeds whose least significant bits range from 00-63, for each year between 2000 and 2099?

Assuming this is correct, all the spreads listed in the attached .zip file should be reasonably easy to obtain. All the spreads listed are limited to frames 1-100.

Yeah, sorta. The High IV Spreads usually lie between 2-6V, that's why it can operate only between this bit range (as I understoodf)

Still don't get about the Natures stuff and where I can check on which Frame it is which Nature though.

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

Yeah, sorta. The High IV Spreads usually lie between 2-6V, that's why it can operate only between this bit range (as I understoodf)

Still don't get about the Natures stuff and where I can check on which Frame it is which Nature though.

2-6V?

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

2-6V?

Yeah that's how the Japanese author says it.
He says that due to the fact that High-IV spreads lie between 2-6V, the 2 bitrange equals 00-63.
What exactly 2-6V are about I can't tell though. But that's somehow the reason for the bitrange.

[Wichu]

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

-> Abilities are tied to your ID, but not to your nature. (see VM)

I thought that as well, but looking at the PID generation formula, this doesn't seem to be the case. Could you give me your ID/SID so I can check if the natures are any different?

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

-> Just to make sure I got that right. So the first Pokemon that I transfer will have the Nature of Frame 192, the second the Nature of 577.
But as Wondercard IVs don't give out Natures, do you refer then to the method 1 frames? Explanation please.

The first will have a frame of 193, and the second will have a frame of 194. The 577 was referring to if you 'Receive Gift' twice before catching the Pokémon. If you just catch two Pokémon, then choose 'Receive Gift' to get both, you'll get 193 and 194.

Originally Posted by Fat Angel-Senshi

The frame required for this seed is 116, so... Can I tranfers 58 Pokemons from the Pokewalker to advance 116 frames??

No, as the starting frame is 1; transferring 58 Pokémon will get you to frame 117. You can't reach frame 116.

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Wichu, am I correct in understanding that you can only hit seeds whose least significant bits range from 00-63, for each year between 2000 and 2099?

Assuming this is correct, all the spreads listed in the attached .zip file should be reasonably easy to obtain. All the spreads listed are limited to frames 1-100.

Yes, that's correct. Catching 100 Pokémon is no easy task, though :P
I got similar csv files by modifying PokéRNG slightly, although I used less rigorous conditions. For example, seed 16170050 gives 31/31/30/1/29/31 on frame 1.

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

Yeah that's how the Japanese author says it.
He says that due to the fact that High-IV spreads lie between 2-6V, the 2 bitrange equals 00-63.
What exactly 2-6V are about I can't tell though. But that's somehow the reason for the bitrange.

I believe '2-6V' refers to frames 2, 4, and 6 (the Japanese refer to our frame 1 as frame 0) - the frames obtainable through a single Pokéwalker connection.

EDIT: Actually, that doesn't make much sense. I don't know what 2-6V stands for :P

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

I thought that as well, but looking at the PID generation formula, this doesn't seem to be the case. Could you give me your ID/SID so I can check if the natures are any different?

ID: 31333
SID: 43903

But that is also a question: WHERE I can actually look which nature it will be on Frame 193/194?
Method 1/DPPt Egg PID Normal, DPPT Egg PID International, where actually?

[Arranf]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

I thought that as well, but looking at the PID generation formula, this doesn't seem to be the case. Could you give me your ID/SID so I can check if the natures are any different?



The first will have a frame of 193, and the second will have a frame of 194. The 577 was referring to if you 'Receive Gift' twice before catching the Pokémon. If you just catch two Pokémon, then choose 'Receive Gift' to get both, you'll get 193 and 194.



No, as the starting frame is 1; transferring 58 Pokémon will get you to frame 117. You can't reach frame 116.



Yes, that's correct. Catching 100 Pokémon is no easy task, though :P
I got similar csv files by modifying PokéRNG slightly, although I used less rigorous conditions. For example, seed 16170050 gives 31/31/30/1/29/31 on frame 1.



I believe '2-6V' refers to frames 2, 4, and 6 (the Japanese refer to our frame 1 as frame 0) - the frames obtainable through a single Pokéwalker connection.

EDIT: Actually, that doesn't make much sense. I don't know what 2-6V stands for :P

Possibly volts?

[Romsstar]

The first will have a frame of 193, and the second will have a frame of 194. The 577 was referring to if you 'Receive Gift' twice before catching the Pokémon. If you just catch two Pokémon, then choose 'Receive Gift' to get both, you'll get 193 and 194.

So logically if I did Receive gift twice before and transfer the pokemon it will be Frame 1 with Nature of 577 and Frame 3 with Nature of 578, is that correct?

Possibly volts?

Possible but in what context that would stand to the Resetting of a Seed?

[Wichu]

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

ID: 31333
SID: 43903

But that is also a question: WHERE I can actually look which nature it will be on Frame 193/194?
Method 1/DPPt Egg PID Normal, DPPT Egg PID International, where actually?

There's a separate method for PID generation of Pokéwalker Pokémon which is currently not in RNG Reporter.
Nature is definitely independent from TID/SID; assuming no communication errors/frame advances, everyone should get the same nature on each spread.

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

So logically if I did Receive gift twice before and transfer the pokemon it will be Frame 1 with Nature of 577 and Frame 3 with Nature of 578, is that correct?

Yep, that's correct.

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat Wichu

There's a separate method for PID generation of Pokéwalker Pokémon which is currently not in RNG Reporter.
Nature is definitely independent from TID/SID; assuming no communication errors/frame advances, everyone should get the same nature on each spread.



Yep, that's correct.

Taking that into account, it means for every spread that you could use on pokewalker you have a set nature which you can manipulate witch receive message, so that if you don't want to do that you'd have to look for spreads with correct nature beforehand, did I got that right?

(Damn I just like to be sure)

And off topic: Just a tip from me but you maybe know that.
I personally hate walking 10000 steps for fly/surfchu just to lose the steps the next day. now every time a pokemon comes home from pokewalker pokewalker synchronizes with DS Clock.

So you could rewind your ds clock constantly some hours back and keep your steps till you get the surf/flychu. So you got the chance not only once a day but can repeat without having to do 10000 steps again.

[Wichu]

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

Taking that into account, it means for every spread that you could use on pokewalker you have a set nature which you can manipulate witch receive message, so that if you don't want to do that you'd have to look for spreads with correct nature beforehand, did I got that right?

(Damn I just like to be sure)

Yeah, that's right. You can get any nature on any spread (other than Quirky), but you have to choose the nature and do the frame advances before catching a Pokémon (unless you have a second Pokéwalker to do the advances with).

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

And off topic: Just a tip from me but you maybe know that.
I personally hate walking 10000 steps for fly/surfchu just to lose the steps the next day. now every time a pokemon comes home from pokewalker pokewalker synchronizes with DS Clock.

So you could rewind your ds clock constantly some hours back and keep your steps till you get the surf/flychu. So you got the chance not only once a day but can repeat without having to do 10000 steps again.

I get at least 10000 steps on an average day anyway, but this is useful for people who don't ;)

[Showsni]

In case people are crazy enough to go for higher frames, there's a flawless HP Ice 70 spread at frame 677, seed 4206003B (that's 2059) and a hex flawless spread at frame 389, seed 540E0062 (that's 2098). Fancy catching 339 Pikachus?

[Romsstar]

Pokewalker information ( to be confirmed/disposed)

Apparently, sending a Pokemon back (returning home)
advances the IRNG by 40,
which results in a total animation of 232.

Which means, if you transfer two pokemon and have one returning home,
the first returning pokemon will have the nature of 233 and the second of 234.

Not clear:

Either sending a Pokemon in advances the IRNG by a total amount of 116 which results in total animation of 308
or sending a pokemon home which followed you.
To be exact it is not clear if a followed pokemon (not pokeradar) or sended in pokemon will advance the IRNG at all.

If anyone could confirm these points that would be nice

[Romsstar]

OK apparently a new way to verify your Seed

http://oupo.github.com/tools/metronome-pickup.html

It's called "Metronome Seed Verifying"

So far it seems to work with wilds.
While using Metronome and Pickup,
it seems to be able to confirm your Initial Seed by the Item obtained and Technique used.

This is all I can tell so far, anyone who's interested in this check it out

[mingot**]

Releasing a beta of RNG Reporter and posting it here, since I think you guys will be the most interested. Added a new screen called "Researcher". This lets you pick any rng (rng, reverse rng, irng, alternate rng, or even a custom to mimic some of the others in the game) and to generate the results in a grid + some common pokemath that the game applies to rng results, such as: mod3 (elm calls), mod100 (encounter slots), mod25 (nature), and others.

Also, it lets you do custom math on the results (you might want to do a mod 24 column to check out pokewalker results) for things that you are checking into. Results can also be chained, so that could be helpful.

anyhow, here (edit, updated to beta 2):

http://users.smogon.com/mingot/rngre...r_830beta2.zip

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

Releasing a beta of RNG Reporter and posting it here, since I think you guys will be the most interested. Added a new screen called "Researcher". This lets you pick any rng (rng, reverse rng, irng, alternate rng, or even a custom to mimic some of the others in the game) and to generate the results in a grid + some common pokemath that the game applies to rng results, such as: mod3 (elm calls), mod100 (encounter slots), mod25 (nature), and others.

Also, it lets you do custom math on the results (you might want to do a mod 24 column to check out pokewalker results) for things that you are checking into. Results can also be chained, so that could be helpful.

anyhow, here (edit, updated to beta 2):

http://users.smogon.com/mingot/rngre...r_830beta2.zip

Damn cool stuff for trying out.

Btw for Elm Stuff:
I think you should add something like a Radio Button, Check Box, etc.
Label it "Irwin" so people can switch from Elm to Irwin.
Irwin is a Juggler on Route 30, no requirements to get his three messages and I think it would be nice to make a Radio Button or something similar to switch to Irwin Responses.
They are as the follows

A: Adventures (He tells you how thrilling he finds your adventures)
C= Call (He wanted to call you sooner)
H= How are you? (Very much "how" questions but starts with this one)

Now, A,C and H correspond to known Elm Method as the following:

A= E (Evolutions)
C=K(Kanto)
H=P (PKRS)

If you can work with that mingot^^
(Actually you could just make a replace on click operation to make it really easy, too bad I have no clue about C#)

Also: Could you make the Adjacent Finder to go higher than Delay 99? (in both directions)
Also: Could you implement the possibility of a Delay -10 input for Method 1 Search? (Useful for Pokewalker)

[mingot**]

What do you mean by delay - 10?

Need to figure out where i want to put a checkbox for irwin since there are now like 5 different screens where there are elm results, so it will be a royal pain to actually make that change.

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

What do you mean by delay - 10?

Need to figure out where i want to put a checkbox for irwin since there are now like 5 different screens where there are elm results, so it will be a royal pain to actually make that change.

I figured, but you know this would be quite useful as it makes RNGing the Roamers before E4 quite possible. (And nearly everything else)

Forget about the -10 Delay I just was stupid and didn't take into account that I could just change the year to 2000.lol

But it would be still nice for the Adjacent Finder to go higher than Delay +- 99 as it doesn't always find the corresponding seed and it just would be nice to know how much you were off.

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

What do you mean by delay - 10?

Need to figure out where i want to put a checkbox for irwin since there are now like 5 different screens where there are elm results, so it will be a royal pain to actually make that change.

Just replace all instances of "Elm" with "Irwin" and switch the response letters. Having both Irwin and Elm is redundant, especially since Irwin is gotten earlier, and therefore better.

EDIT: Hmm, except for the whole "Irwin calls you for rematches thing", which screws up using him to advance the RNG.

[Romsstar]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Just replace all instances of "Elm" with "Irwin" and switch the response letters. Having both Irwin and Elm is redundant, especially since Irwin is gotten earlier, and therefore better.

EDIT: Hmm, except for the whole "Irwin calls you for rematches thing", which screws up using him to advance the RNG.

Yeah that's why Irwin is good for RNGing Roamers and Legends before Kanto (Like Lugia, Sudowoodo, etc)
but for after that Elm would be your best bet.
But I guess you can use him to verify your seed though.
At least most of the time.

[mingot**]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Just replace all instances of "Elm" with "Irwin" and switch the response letters. Having both Irwin and Elm is redundant, especially since Irwin is gotten earlier, and therefore better.

EDIT: Hmm, except for the whole "Irwin calls you for rematches thing", which screws up using him to advance the RNG.

And the fact that calling irwin requires scrolling and elm is right at the top of the list. If you could delete callers out of your list I might do that.

Might just bite the bullet and make the choice of which to use a global setting.

Originally Posted by Fat Romsstar

I figured, but you know this would be quite useful as it makes RNGing the Roamers before E4 quite possible. (And nearly everything else)

Forget about the -10 Delay I just was stupid and didn't take into account that I could just change the year to 2000.lol

But it would be still nice for the Adjacent Finder to go higher than Delay +- 99 as it doesn't always find the corresponding seed and it just would be nice to know how much you were off.

Well, you can do it now, you just need to know how to map the responses to irwin. I might end up with a global setting at some point, though.

As for adjacents -- it's possible, but I tend to see people using 999 and getting shitloads of false positives. Maybe until it is narrowed down folks should catch something and use the "custom" mode of the seed finder.

[Saints Fan]

Originally Posted by Fat mingot

And the fact that calling irwin requires scrolling and elm is right at the top of the list. If you could delete callers out of your list I might do that.

Might just bite the bullet and make the choice of which to use a global setting.

A small point here, you can sort your phone book. Click their name, then sort, then move, and move it to where you want, like the first pate.

[mingot**]

Originally Posted by Fat Saints Fan

A small point here, you can sort your phone book. Click their name, then sort, then move, and move it to where you want, like the first pate.

Ok, did not know this.

Omega/Whoever knows -- whats the mechanic with calling for a rematch? Does it "break" the phone call responses until you actually go and have a rematch or what?

[Pehu]

I believe that if you try to call him on the day of week when he accepts rematches, it won't work for checking the seed or advancing it, as it will give different results.