Beginner's Luck

Felerial · Jun 4th, 2010, 1:25:39 PM

Hello everyone! I am extremely new to the competitive battling scene, but have been playing the franchise since I was a little boy playing Blue Version. I recently got back into Pokemon after a friend had bought me Soul Silver for my birthday. Needless to say I got hooked immediately. I was referred to smogon's pokemon guides to help me assemble my team, and well...here I am! The plethora of things smogon has to offer it's battlers is pretty astounding and I am very grateful to those who put the effort in to create this all.

A little bit about my team. Being completely new to the metagame I had no idea what to expect in the OU scene, or even what Player vs. Player battles would feel like. With that in mind, I literally took a look at the top used OU characters from doug's stat reports and tried to create a balanced team from that. Lots of thinking and Notepad usage later, I came up with this team that has done pretty well for me. I've gotten up to 1200 CRE so far and will keep rising hopefully!

My team at a glance:
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SURPRISE! *An OU Warstory*
Down to the wire! *An OU Warstory*

I have been reading quite a few Warstories (the good and the bad) to learn the thought process of battlers better than myself, and never enter a fight without the Pokemon Guide and Damage Calc pages open to act as my beginner's crutch.

Keep in mind i'm still glaringly new, but I'm not retarded. I've been battling competitively for about a week now (as of June 4th). I'm still learning the metagame, and would love all the feedback I can get from you guys about my team.

I also plan on enrolling in the Battle Tutor program the next time it opens.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Roar/Protect

My lead, my SR user, my Bulky Water, and my Electric Immunity. A carbon copy of the Mixpert Lead from Smogon, though I put the 4 attack EV's into Speed to break possible speed ties with opposing Swampert should it ever come to that.

I opted for Protect over Roar to have a way to ward off Explosions without exposing my Gengar, and to gather up all the safe extra leftover recovery I can get, and the scouting is nice too. I'm currently torn on the topic however, as two phazers would be nice in the instance something happens to Skarmory.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/60 Atk/176 Def/20 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Tried and Failed:
Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind

Skarmory is my Wall, my Spiker, my Phazer. A carbon copy of the Spiker Skarm from Smogon, but I boosted its speed by 4 EV's to outspeed Opposing Skarmory trying to phaze me (which happens fairly often actually).

Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Currently testing:
Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Taunt
-Dragon Dance

Carbon Copy of the DD Gyara from Smogon. I wanted a boosting sweeper on my team, but loved my Mixmence, so I picked Gyarados. I've been thinking about trying out the Bulky DD Gyara, but having EQ on Gyara has really been helpful in some win or lose situations. I dont know how much a Taunt/2nd Phazer would help the team though. Food for thought I guess.

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage

Carbon copy of New Mixmence from Smogon. God I hope this guy doesn't get banned. This is the funnest pokemon i've ever played with. Not much to say other than he likes crushing people, heh. I've tried the DD Mence but like the feel of Mixmence on this team much more.

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Currently Testing:
Tyranitar@Choice Band
252 HP/42 Atk/216 Spd
Careful
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Pursuit
-Aqua Tail/EQ

Scizor covers a plethora of threats against my team, is my Alternate Revenge killer, and is my only Pursuit user. Very fun when used properly, but i'm still learning. Another carbon copy, so i'll stop at that.

Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt

Currently Testing:
Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Trick
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunderbolt

Tried and Failed:
Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf
Timid 38 HP/252 spA/220 Speed
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Trick
HP Fighting / Will-o-Wisp

Gengar is a major trump card of sorts on my team. Most people don't expect a Scarfgar, and it's very easy to play mindgames on people with him. It always makes me smile when I outspeed a Starmie who tried to land a kill on me after I block its attempt at a Rapid Spin. He's also great against Trick users like Jirachi. He uses HP Fire over Ice, as the Steel's in OU give me more trouble than Salamence whom I can kill quite easily when playing smart. He's my second explosion counter and more importantly my RSpin blocker. He's been and is a vital part of my team.
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Here's some random Notepad notes I had written during the few days it took me to build this team (remember, i'm brand new, only having 1 week of Competitive playing experience. Team Building is very hard for me, heh.)

Move Coverage
Steel
Water
Rock
Ground x3
Ghost
Electric
Fighting x2
Ice
Bug
Steel
Dark
Dragon x2
Fire x2
Flying

Missing Move Coverage
Normal
Poison
Grass
Psychic

Current Unresolved OU Weaknesses
HP Grass Zapdos (LO/Subs) - Not too bad, I beat the few teams that used it. It was just a pain in the you know what.
HP Grass Jolteon (LO/Specs) - I've never had a problem with Jolteon so far, but a friend on IRC gave me dire warnings about it.

Current Questionable Wants
Rapid Spinner - SR wrecks Gyara and Salamence, and it would be nice to be able to spin it away, but I don't know if Starmie or Forretress would really fit right on this team. It's not a major need, just something that would be nice.
Trick - For the sole reason that it looks really fun, has very crippling effects on the recipient, and is great in War stories.
Taunt - Unsure as to how much this would really help me. Feedback would be appreciated.
Explosion - Easymode you die now button. Torn feelings on this one, as i'd rather not be killing my pokes if theres another way around it. Curious as to how much success this move has given to experienced players.

greenstreet · Jun 4th, 2010, 2:26:22 PM

You might want to add in a few more words in your descriptions.

On to the team, I would suggest running a scarfed rotom in place of your gengar to block spins better due to its over all bulk and resistance to electric and steel since most teams really wants to get rid of swampert early in the game. I suggest running running roar in place of protect since you can switch into skarmory against the predicted earthquakes and just roost off the damage. Gyarados really likes Leftovers over LO since with all the hazards that plague today, Gyarados would die too quickly.

Hope I helped.

jgiovanni89 · Jun 4th, 2010, 5:38:46 PM

run taunt on gyarados in place of SE... you can't kill other gyara but it stops phazers and forces a switch on them... allowing you a free dragon dance... meaning fairly easily you can get a +2 boost

Felerial · Jun 4th, 2010, 8:52:46 PM

So Taunt and Leftovers on my Gyara? Should I then in turn change the EV's to a bulky variant? Or leave as is?

Rotom might actually help me with my Zappy and Jolt Weaknesses, but Jolt sometimes runs SBolt, so im not so sure it would completely resolve the problem. I really love my ScarfGar though...I guess it can't hurt giving it a try. Can't really be shooting down advice as a new player =p

jgiovanni89 · Jun 5th, 2010, 1:24:51 AM

here is the gyarados i run... works very well and has what we are talking about

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Earthquake

hope that helps

Aeron Ee1 · Jun 5th, 2010, 5:00:39 AM

Waterfall + EQ doesn't get very good coverage whereas Water+Rock is only resisted by Empoleon... By the way, even though you aren't running the bulky set, with an Adamant nature, you might as well only run 184 Spe. You never know when those HP EVs might come in handy, especially on something as bulky as Gyarados. So basically:

Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge
-Taunt
-Dragon Dance

Felerial · Jun 5th, 2010, 12:07:32 PM

So I tried running Scarf Rotom over Scarfgar....didnt work at all. I use my Scarfgar to revenge a lot, and outspeed anything fast. Rotom simply doesnt fill that roll, and while trick is fun, I need gengar to be my outspeeder. Using him for his immunities is mearly a plus.

On another note, i've been using Taunt Gyara with some mixed success...Stone Edge missing definately sucks horribly, and not having EQ really hurts sometimes...I'm going to try and run EQ over Stone Edge and see how that pans out.

EDIT: I'm thinking of removing Gyarados all together to help me with my Zapdos/Jolteon weaknesses, as they have been wrecking me and showing up a lot today. Any ideas for something that would fit nicely on this team and counter them at the same time?

EDIT EDIT: I also seem to be having some trouble with Wish Vaporeon. *sigh* Any solutions? Ideas?

***Delko**** · Jun 6th, 2010, 7:22:41 AM

Hello

I suggest a slightly more specially defensive EV spread on Skarmory as you don't really have a special wall.
I suggest 252 HP, 88 DEF, 16 Spe, 152 SDef. It will still take physical hits like a champ but now special hits can't dent it either.

I also agree with the Bulky Gyarados suggested by Aeron Ee1 as it will help you against stall teams. You might want to go for the bulkier spead perhaps; 156 HP, 72 Atk, 96 Def, 184 Spe.

You are quite weak to Ghost types, especially ones like Rotom-h and Substitute Gengar. Therefor I suggest Choice Scarf Tyranitar instead of Scizor:

Tyranitar @ choice scarf/ jolly/ sand stream
4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

- Pursuit
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Standard Scartar. With Scarftar dealing with pokemon such as Rotom-a, your Gyarados will have an easier time to set up and sweeping. Earthquake is prefered over Superpower as it lets you deal with opposing Tyranitar and CM Jirachi all the same.

Hope this helped (can I get my free cookie now? ^^)

Felerial · Jun 6th, 2010, 11:56:35 PM

Scizor and Gengar wreck ghost types. I've literally never had problems with them.

Wish Vaporeon is turning out to be a big nuisance for me, and T-Tar would only exacerbate that problem I would think. I'll try out the bulkier Gyara. I was thinking of actually trying him out as a rest talker to counter Brelooms spore a bit, but i'm worried that I would be giving up too much offensive power from my team. *shrug* More testing to be done.

Felerial · Jun 7th, 2010, 11:28:48 PM

24 Hour bump. Opinions and advice heavily desired!

Pokethan · Jun 7th, 2010, 11:57:01 PM

I am not an expert at OU but it seems like Electivire could help you out here because it gives you another pokemon immune to electricity and doesn't make you too vulnerable to EQ since you also have 4 pokemon already on the team that are immune. Electivire can absorb the electric moves from Jolteon and Zapdos if you set it up right and then with the speed boost it can sweep an entire team. I think a the physical moveset could work best but its up to you because then it can STAB Thunderpunch through Vaporeon too.

Eggbert · Jun 11th, 2010, 11:03:51 PM

Just a nitpick: Scarfgar is great, but timid should be used, as modest fails to outspeed +1 salamence. Yes, you can play around salamence, but having a back-up option to simply outspeed should be more important than some extra power considering salamence is on 20% of all teams and can really cause some problems with magnezone. For this reason, a shed shell on skarmory might be a good idea.

HP Fire is your opinion, but CBzor can "outspeed" anyway. HP nails salamence where shadow ball only manages 53.5% - 62.8%, never KOing even with rocks up.

Also, like skarmory, you could up scizor's speed to get the first superpower in 1v1.

Like said above, your team is massively weak to jolteon. But instead of electivire a bulky CBtar could be used to trap jolteon with pursuit, and deal with rotom.

Tyranitar@Choice Band
252 HP/42 Atk/216 Spd
Careful
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Pursuit
-Aqua Tail/EQ

Venser · Jun 12th, 2010, 1:50:40 AM

Quote:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect

My lead, my SR user, my Bulky Water, and my Electric Immunity. A carbon copy of the Mixpert Lead from Smogon, though I put the 4 attack EV's into Speed to break possible speed ties with opposing Swampert should it ever come to that.

No offense, but the EV's are put into attack for a reason. Would you mind explaining why this would ever need to outspeed another Swampert? I'm pretty sure the extra 1 attack point will be more useful in most situations than outspeeding other Swamperts.

Doctor Who? · Jun 12th, 2010, 2:27:51 AM

I hate to reiterate what has already been suggested and you have rejected, but run Rotom-A>>Gengar. You easily lose Gengar to Scarftar very easily. Also you need the Electric resistance for what I'm about to suggest. Don't run a Scarf set because anything with Pursuit that resists your move can beat you up. Instead run a bulky set with Will-o-wisp and Thunderbolt. This is to counter Gyarados better as any Scarftar with Gyarados combination really sweeps this team without a bulky Rotom set. The third and fourth moves are your choice.

Run Scarftar>>Swampert and Skarmory in the lead position with Stealth Rock>>Brave Bird. I never found Brave Bird useful since a move that hurts a tank/wall seems pretty redundant no matter how much power it has.

Scarftar also helps with the Ghost-type weakness you have, which was previously mentioned by Delko.

Run Stone Edge>>EQ on Gyarados because of the poor coverage which your current set has. Sometimes I miss EQ but mostly I am happy with SE.

Hope I helped.

Phantom_IV · Jun 12th, 2010, 12:33:11 PM

A while back, someone made a suggestion to replace Gengar with Scarfed Rotom-A, and I would agree with this. Rotom hits harder than Gengar due to a higher BP STAB and is bulkier. Not to mention it has superior coverage with the help of its second STAB. In the absence of Tyranitar, scarfed Rotom becomes very hard to stop with its 2 neutral STABS and good bulk. It's a great Lucario check and isn't as Scizor weak. Use the following set:

Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf
Timid 38 HP/252 spA/220 Speed
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Trick
HP Fighting / Will-o-Wisp

It outruns jolly Kingdra/Gyara/Dragonite after a DD (not that important of a benchmark, but good enough), and can survive a scarf Heatran Fire Blast even after SR. (Which is important, as many Heatrans are either scarfed or hold a non boosting item like Shuca Berry). Max speed could be used to force a tie with other scarfed Rotoms, though I usually prefer the extra hp, as Rotom-A is pretty bulky.

Final move is for Tyranitar or Scizor switch-ins. HP Fighting 2HKOs non bulky tyranitar (like scarftar) and both Tyranitar and Scizor dislike WoW.

HeiSe · Jun 14th, 2010, 12:49:59 AM

Change Scizor's Spe EV's to 4 and put the extra ones in SpD. Being out sped by other Scizor means that you will OHKO them after their Superpower fails to OHKO you and puts them at -1 Defense, and having a slower U-Turn is much better for scouting.

Your extreme weakness to LO Starmie is also unsettling, as you have absolutely nothing to switch into him while he OHKO's Gyara, Mence, Skarm, Sciz (100% OHKO with Hydro Pump after two SR switchins) and Gengar. Smart players will be suspicious once you switch in Gengar after their Starmie has fainted something and will switch to scout your set. For this reason I'd like to recommend Lanturn. Besides acting as one of the best Starmie checks in existence, it also counters many problem pokemon for your team, such as most forms of Jirachi, checks SpecsJolt, and pairs very nicely with Gyarados, taking Elec attacks while Gyara takes Ground type attacks. I would recommend you replace your Swampert with this set, while moving Skarm to the lead position as someone else has suggested. The set is 52 HP/ 56 Spe/ 148 SpD/ 252 SpA with a Modest nature with Substitute/ChargeBeam/IceBeam/Hydropump with Leftovers.

And yeah, Stone Edge over EQ on Gyara. Otherwise he gets ruined by other Gyarados and fails to do jack to Mence

Lucien Lachance · Jun 14th, 2010, 1:03:34 AM

you have 2 defence walls, swampert and skarmory, and you have nothing to wall special attack. If you want to keep skarm, dump EV's into SpD and give it a careful nature. Or, if you will, dump swampert and get a blissey. Have blissey know SR though, cuz they seems important. Then you need a new lead... Gyara as a lead seems insane, but since no common leads use T-bolt, you're safe from electric attacks. Taunt can be helpful to stop set-ups in their tracks while DD, waterfall and either EQ or SE destroy the opponents team.

Hope I helped!

Felerial · Jun 17th, 2010, 8:17:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Eggbert and HeiSe

Advice

Seeing as I've gotten conflicting reviews on Scizor's speed EV's, I'm not sure to boost it or lower it. I've honestly in all my time on Smogon never been stuck in Superpower against opposing Scizor. The opponent would only bring scizor in to revenge me if he was certain he could out speed my scizor, meaning he probably has boosted Speed EV's, so I wouldn't have out sped either way.

Also, in regards to Gengar's speed Eggbert. Choice Scarf lets me outspeed +1 Salamence, unless you mean I'll outspeed a +1 as Timid if and when I trick my Scarf onto something else?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Starkiller

Swampert anger

Breaking he Roar speed tie vs. other Swampert has helped quite a few times actually. Pretty much EVERY time i've faced opposing Swampert actually. So no, the .3% extra damage on EQ really hasn't come in much handy in almost any situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Doctor Who?

More rotom love

As I said earlier, Scarfgar takes care of quite a few prevalent threats in the OU Meta, and is my main revenger. Simply replacing him with a tanky ghost (and one without Scarf no less) severely weakens my team. I tried it quite thoroughly and just couldn't survive without my Scarfgar.

Also, I run EQ on Gyara for two reasons. The first being Stone Edge misses quite a bit. RNG hates me. A lot. I can't tell you how many games i've lost because of multiple Stone Edge misses. Most people also expect SE on a Taunt Gyara, so I can use that to my advantage. Not to mention Gyara is my best Heatran counter while carrying EQ as Waterfall fails to OHKO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Lucien Lachance

Extreme team changing advice

I tried a SpD Skarm to be a Special Wall for my team, and I have to say it wasn't nearly as helpful as a Physical Wall Skarm. In a metagame plagued with Blissey, not many people run Special Sweeping teams that I just cannot handle. Being able to survive Scizor Superpower's and being able to Roost off the damage and survive subsequent Superpower's is one example of the ways in which Physical Wall Skarm has come in more use for me.

Gyara as a lead just makes no sense to me at all...and I'd rather not change my Balanced team to a Gimmick team. Taunt wouldn't do anything to an SR user that outspeeds me (Aero/Azelf/ScarfUxie) which is quite a bit as those leads are very popular.

As an Aside, as many have recommended, I will try running Scarf/Band Tar today and see how things pan out.

Eggbert · Jun 17th, 2010, 9:28:45 PM

Quote:

Also, in regards to Gengar's speed Eggbert. Choice Scarf lets me outspeed +1 Salamence, unless you mean I'll outspeed a +1 as Timid if and when I trick my Scarf onto something else?

+1 Naive 252 Spe Salamence outspeeds modest scarfgar. Salamence reaches 492 Spe at +1, where modest scarfgar only reaches 478. Timid hits 525. Gengar still hits pretty hard with 130 base SpA. I would strongly suggest HP Ice, as not only does this take mence down, but you also get the surprise kill on flygon, who think they can outspeed you.

Nick1103 · Jun 18th, 2010, 3:41:49 AM

Really good team, sorry to say you can be completly walled by a vaporeon with toxic and a standard scarfgon.

I recomend using a subgengar to help you, even though you lose your speed if they switch out or protect ect. You have sub to Hide behind and can attack while being safe, because of gengars pitiful defences

Felerial · Jun 19th, 2010, 4:04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Eggbert

+1 Naive 252 Spe Salamence outspeeds modest scarfgar. Salamence reaches 492 Spe at +1, where modest scarfgar only reaches 478. Timid hits 525. Gengar still hits pretty hard with 130 base SpA. I would strongly suggest HP Ice, as not only does this take mence down, but you also get the surprise kill on flygon, who think they can outspeed you.

I'll try Timid Gengar out then, though Salamence is never really a problem at all to my team. I feel anxious about switching to HP Ice though, as Gengar is one of my main answer to annoying Steels and my best answer to Magnezone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nick1103

Words

As I've said earlier in the thread, Vaporeon Walls prove to be quite annoying, and i've had to play around them a bit to win (Phazing for more hazard damage etc.). However, your completely random suggestion of switching to Sub Gengar for no reason at all (and all the does is create quite a few more threats for my team) leads me to believe you're not really a qualified rater.

If you feel you are, please add more information to your (Double) Post as to why Sub Gengar would help me in any way at all. Otherwise, please don't relay random information to help as it serves no purpose. Thanks.

PI-Dimension · Jun 19th, 2010, 1:30:36 PM

Seeing that you have 2 SR weak pokemon, AND scizor, I highly recommend a Rapid Spinner. Now, everyone loves the LO Starmie, so if you want to go with the fad, I'd recommend

1. Rid of Swampert
2. Give Skarm SR over Brave Bird
3. Move Skarm to the lead position
4. Add Starmie

Timid Starmie @ Life Orb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam/Recover
- Rapid Spin

In reference to Lead Skarm, taken from the Smog #9 (http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue9/featured_rmt_ou)

Quote:

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 SpD
Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Intro to the set

So, Skarmory was the candidate best suited to lead off the match for our team. At first, I was worried about its potential effectiveness. When we made the team, Skarmory's usage stats as a lead were "25 | Skarmory | 10101 | 1.23%." I even got one comment from an opponent I was facing on the leaderboard, "Skarmory, the worst of leads." I soon found out that it is a great lead. Two of the most popular leads in the Metagame are Swampert and Metagross, and they allow me to set up a free layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock because they can't touch Skarmory and its high defenses.

Basically, Skarmory is such a great lead, that if it does its job, and gets a up a layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock, my opponent can rarely ever come back in the match unless they have a spinner, which isnt the most difficult thing to play around. I am also not afraid to sacrifice Skarmory to get these aforementioned layers, and they are a critical part of the teams success.

Moves, set and spread

To me, the 4 moves for this set were fairly obvious. I chose Stealth Rock because I wanted to start the match with it, and I didn't want to waste another of my team member's moveslots with it. Spikes were a given, and the sole reason Skarmory makes an appearance on the team. Roost is an excellent move that allows me to switch in effectively and counter strong attackers like Agiligross, Tyranitar, Gyarados without Taunt, and the ever popular Scizor. Whirlwind is another effective move, and with some prediction, it can be hell for my opponent to get a counter in without it being sent away and taking Stealth Rock and Spikes damage. One other overlooked benefit of Whirlwind is that it makes Wish passing incredibly difficult. Vaporeon has to make a choice whether or not to stay in and heal itself, or just take a risk and hope the wish benefits the switch in that Whirlwind just brought in. Also, CM Wish Jirachi is rendered pretty useless before it gets a CM or two, as odds are, it won't be able to pass its Wish to the intended target.

I chose a Special Defensive spread for Skarmory because its defenses are high enough to switch in and counter what I need it to, and it is able to take on many Special Attackers at the same time. If I remember, a Specs Latias' Surf does only 50% to this Skarmory variant, and when used with Leftovers, I can Roost off damage effectively. Skarmory is also a great switch in to Draco Meteors, and with the Special Defense spread, it is able to shrug of the damage with roost. I chose Leftovers over Shed Shell because it gives me that extra little boost in recovery, which rarely goes unneeded. Suddenly, threats like Agility Metagross with Life Orb ThunderPunch can be stalled out with Roost because it can only do about 55% damage with its attacks.

Game plan

Skarmory is not the easiest Pokémon to use. It requires a fair amount of intuition to wield effectively. Knowing whether to take advantage of the opposing Pokémon as setup bait and knowing when to Whirlwind the switch in is a skill that maximizes Skarmory's effectiveness. Typically, I will set up 1 or 2 layers of Spikes along with Stealth Rock before I try to do any Whirlwinding. Occasionally, if I can see the opponent switching his lead Celebi out from a mile away, I'll Whirlwind just to rack up some free damage. There are certain Pokémon that I will not take any chances with that attempt to threaten Skarmory. Salamence is one of those Pokémon. I will always Whirlwind it when it comes in if I don't know the set, because if it manages to get a DD as I switch, I'm in deep trouble. Dragonite is another Pokémon that I like to just get rid of, and deal with later because DD requires some effort to stop.

Rayquaza2233 · Jun 19th, 2010, 1:47:57 PM

Another spinning option is Tentacruel. It spins, sets up Toxic Spikes (really messes up bulky waters like Vaporeon), and it is a pretty decent special wall.

Felerial · Jun 19th, 2010, 4:52:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PI-Dimension

Seeing that you have 2 SR weak pokemon, AND scizor, I highly recommend a Rapid Spinner. Now, everyone loves the LO Starmie, so if you want to go with the fad, I'd recommend

1. Rid of Swampert
2. Give Skarm SR over Brave Bird
3. Move Skarm to the lead position
4. Add Starmie

Timid Starmie @ Life Orb
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam/Recover
- Rapid Spin

In reference to Lead Skarm, taken from the Smog #9 (http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue9/featured_rmt_ou)

I've always wanted to try a Rapid Spinner as that would really clear the way for Salamence, but Swampert feels so invaluable to me. With the ridiculous amount of Azelf leads around, I'm afriad i'd be Fire Blasted all too often. Swampert's tankiness also allows him to act as a necessary buffer to opposing teams, and I can't count the number of times i've made use of the Elec Immunity. I've always been tempted to use a Starmie, but I figured i'd replace Gyarados if I were to do that.

Instead of getting rid of Swampert altogether, do you think it would be viable to sub Gyara out for Starmie? I lose my only boosting sweeper if I do, and I lose taunt...what are your thoughts?

Eggbert · Jun 19th, 2010, 5:30:34 PM

Starmie makes a great lead. (LO) You can destroy the other lead, then spin while you break their sashes. However, you would need to replace either swampert or skarmory. Considering how weak your team is to specs jolt and another electric weak, I would make this over skarmory.

Azelf: Hydropump, then rapid spin while you break their sash
Swampert: You could run grass knot, or 2HKO with hydropump
Metagross: Even surf 2HKOs.
Heatran: lol
gliscor:lol
Aerodactyl:lol, but if they rock slide first, you have to switch to scizor and u-turn.
Machamp:switch to gyarados
Roserade: this is a problem.
ape:lol

You don't have to run it as a lead though. I would strongly advise a tyranitar at this point, because specs jolt runs through most of this team.

Jun 4th, 2010, 1:25:39 PM	#1
Felerial Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	Beginner's Luck Hello everyone! I am extremely new to the competitive battling scene, but have been playing the franchise since I was a little boy playing Blue Version. I recently got back into Pokemon after a friend had bought me Soul Silver for my birthday. Needless to say I got hooked immediately. I was referred to smogon's pokemon guides to help me assemble my team, and well...here I am! The plethora of things smogon has to offer it's battlers is pretty astounding and I am very grateful to those who put the effort in to create this all. A little bit about my team. Being completely new to the metagame I had no idea what to expect in the OU scene, or even what Player vs. Player battles would feel like. With that in mind, I literally took a look at the top used OU characters from doug's stat reports and tried to create a balanced team from that. Lots of thinking and Notepad usage later, I came up with this team that has done pretty well for me. I've gotten up to 1200 CRE so far and will keep rising hopefully! My team at a glance: ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- SURPRISE! An OU Warstory Down to the wire! An OU Warstory I have been reading quite a few Warstories (the good and the bad) to learn the thought process of battlers better than myself, and never enter a fight without the Pokemon Guide and Damage Calc pages open to act as my beginner's crutch. Keep in mind i'm still glaringly new, but I'm not retarded. I've been battling competitively for about a week now (as of June 4th). I'm still learning the metagame, and would love all the feedback I can get from you guys about my team. I also plan on enrolling in the Battle Tutor program the next time it opens. Swampert (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Torrent EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd) - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Ice Beam - Roar/Protect My lead, my SR user, my Bulky Water, and my Electric Immunity. A carbon copy of the Mixpert Lead from Smogon, though I put the 4 attack EV's into Speed to break possible speed ties with opposing Swampert should it ever come to that. I opted for Protect over Roar to have a way to ward off Explosions without exposing my Gengar, and to gather up all the safe extra leftover recovery I can get, and the scouting is nice too. I'm currently torn on the topic however, as two phazers would be nice in the instance something happens to Skarmory. Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Keen Eye EVs: 252 HP/60 Atk/176 Def/20 Spd Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Brave Bird - Roost - Spikes - Whirlwind Tried and Failed: Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Keen Eye EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Brave Bird - Roost - Spikes - Whirlwind Skarmory is my Wall, my Spiker, my Phazer. A carbon copy of the Spiker Skarm from Smogon, but I boosted its speed by 4 EV's to outspeed Opposing Skarmory trying to phaze me (which happens fairly often actually). Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Dance - Waterfall - Stone Edge - Earthquake Currently testing: Gyarados@Leftovers Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe -Waterfall -Earthquake -Taunt -Dragon Dance Carbon Copy of the DD Gyara from Smogon. I wanted a boosting sweeper on my team, but loved my Mixmence, so I picked Gyarados. I've been thinking about trying out the Bulky DD Gyara, but having EQ on Gyara has really been helpful in some win or lose situations. I dont know how much a Taunt/2nd Phazer would help the team though. Food for thought I guess. Salamence (M) @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate EVs: 16 Atk/252 Spd/240 SAtk Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Draco Meteor - Earthquake - Fire Blast - Outrage Carbon copy of New Mixmence from Smogon. God I hope this guy doesn't get banned. This is the funnest pokemon i've ever played with. Not much to say other than he likes crushing people, heh. I've tried the DD Mence but like the feel of Mixmence on this team much more. Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Ability: Technician EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Pursuit Currently Testing: Tyranitar@Choice Band 252 HP/42 Atk/216 Spd Careful -Crunch -Stone Edge -Pursuit -Aqua Tail/EQ Scizor covers a plethora of threats against my team, is my Alternate Revenge killer, and is my only Pursuit user. Very fun when used properly, but i'm still learning. Another carbon copy, so i'll stop at that. Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Shadow Ball - Focus Blast - Hidden Power [Fire] - Thunderbolt Currently Testing: Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Shadow Ball - Trick - Hidden Power [Fire] - Thunderbolt Tried and Failed: Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf Timid 38 HP/252 spA/220 Speed Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Trick HP Fighting / Will-o-Wisp Gengar is a major trump card of sorts on my team. Most people don't expect a Scarfgar, and it's very easy to play mindgames on people with him. It always makes me smile when I outspeed a Starmie who tried to land a kill on me after I block its attempt at a Rapid Spin. He's also great against Trick users like Jirachi. He uses HP Fire over Ice, as the Steel's in OU give me more trouble than Salamence whom I can kill quite easily when playing smart. He's my second explosion counter and more importantly my RSpin blocker. He's been and is a vital part of my team. --- Here's some random Notepad notes I had written during the few days it took me to build this team (remember, i'm brand new, only having 1 week of Competitive playing experience. Team Building is very hard for me, heh.) Move Coverage Steel Water Rock Ground x3 Ghost Electric Fighting x2 Ice Bug Steel Dark Dragon x2 Fire x2 Flying Missing Move Coverage Normal Poison Grass Psychic Current Unresolved OU Weaknesses HP Grass Zapdos (LO/Subs) - Not too bad, I beat the few teams that used it. It was just a pain in the you know what. HP Grass Jolteon (LO/Specs) - I've never had a problem with Jolteon so far, but a friend on IRC gave me dire warnings about it. Current Questionable Wants Rapid Spinner - SR wrecks Gyara and Salamence, and it would be nice to be able to spin it away, but I don't know if Starmie or Forretress would really fit right on this team. It's not a major need, just something that would be nice. Trick - For the sole reason that it looks really fun, has very crippling effects on the recipient, and is great in War stories. Taunt - Unsure as to how much this would really help me. Feedback would be appreciated. Explosion - Easymode you die now button. Torn feelings on this one, as i'd rather not be killing my pokes if theres another way around it. Curious as to how much success this move has given to experienced players. Last edited by Felerial; Jun 17th, 2010 at 8:29:20 PM.

Jun 4th, 2010, 2:26:22 PM	#2
greenstreet Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 75	You might want to add in a few more words in your descriptions. On to the team, I would suggest running a scarfed rotom in place of your gengar to block spins better due to its over all bulk and resistance to electric and steel since most teams really wants to get rid of swampert early in the game. I suggest running running roar in place of protect since you can switch into skarmory against the predicted earthquakes and just roost off the damage. Gyarados really likes Leftovers over LO since with all the hazards that plague today, Gyarados would die too quickly. Hope I helped. __________________ "The fatal flaw in every plan is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

Jun 4th, 2010, 8:52:46 PM	#4
Felerial Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	So Taunt and Leftovers on my Gyara? Should I then in turn change the EV's to a bulky variant? Or leave as is? Rotom might actually help me with my Zappy and Jolt Weaknesses, but Jolt sometimes runs SBolt, so im not so sure it would completely resolve the problem. I really love my ScarfGar though...I guess it can't hurt giving it a try. Can't really be shooting down advice as a new player =p __________________ RMT's - Beginner's Luck War Stories - SURPRISE! An OU Warstory , Down to the wire! An OU Warstory

Jun 5th, 2010, 12:07:32 PM	#7
Felerial Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	So I tried running Scarf Rotom over Scarfgar....didnt work at all. I use my Scarfgar to revenge a lot, and outspeed anything fast. Rotom simply doesnt fill that roll, and while trick is fun, I need gengar to be my outspeeder. Using him for his immunities is mearly a plus. On another note, i've been using Taunt Gyara with some mixed success...Stone Edge missing definately sucks horribly, and not having EQ really hurts sometimes...I'm going to try and run EQ over Stone Edge and see how that pans out. EDIT: I'm thinking of removing Gyarados all together to help me with my Zapdos/Jolteon weaknesses, as they have been wrecking me and showing up a lot today. Any ideas for something that would fit nicely on this team and counter them at the same time? EDIT EDIT: I also seem to be having some trouble with Wish Vaporeon. sigh Any solutions? Ideas? __________________ RMT's - Beginner's Luck War Stories - SURPRISE! An OU Warstory , Down to the wire! An OU Warstory Last edited by Felerial; Jun 6th, 2010 at 9:19:52 AM.

Jun 7th, 2010, 11:28:48 PM	#10
Felerial Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	24 Hour bump. Opinions and advice heavily desired! __________________ RMT's - Beginner's Luck War Stories - SURPRISE! An OU Warstory , Down to the wire! An OU Warstory

Jun 4th, 2010, 5:38:46 PM	#3
jgiovanni89 Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19	run taunt on gyarados in place of SE... you can't kill other gyara but it stops phazers and forces a switch on them... allowing you a free dragon dance... meaning fairly easily you can get a +2 boost

Jun 5th, 2010, 1:24:51 AM	#5
jgiovanni89 Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 19	here is the gyarados i run... works very well and has what we are talking about Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers Ability: Intimidate EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Dragon Dance - Waterfall - Taunt - Earthquake hope that helps

Jun 5th, 2010, 5:00:39 AM	#6
Aeron Ee1 Don't forget me, I beg Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 729 Selangor, Malaysia	Waterfall + EQ doesn't get very good coverage whereas Water+Rock is only resisted by Empoleon... By the way, even though you aren't running the bulky set, with an Adamant nature, you might as well only run 184 Spe. You never know when those HP EVs might come in handy, especially on something as bulky as Gyarados. So basically: Gyarados@Leftovers Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe -Waterfall -Stone Edge -Taunt -Dragon Dance

Jun 6th, 2010, 7:22:41 AM	#8
*Delko at the end of the game, the king and the pawn go into the same box Super Moderator** Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,961 Belgium Mentor	Hello I suggest a slightly more specially defensive EV spread on Skarmory as you don't really have a special wall. I suggest 252 HP, 88 DEF, 16 Spe, 152 SDef. It will still take physical hits like a champ but now special hits can't dent it either. I also agree with the Bulky Gyarados suggested by Aeron Ee1 as it will help you against stall teams. You might want to go for the bulkier spead perhaps; 156 HP, 72 Atk, 96 Def, 184 Spe. You are quite weak to Ghost types, especially ones like Rotom-h and Substitute Gengar. Therefor I suggest Choice Scarf Tyranitar instead of Scizor: Tyranitar @ choice scarf/ jolly/ sand stream 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe - Pursuit - Crunch - Earthquake - Stone Edge Standard Scartar. With Scarftar dealing with pokemon such as Rotom-a, your Gyarados will have an easier time to set up and sweeping. Earthquake is prefered over Superpower as it lets you deal with opposing Tyranitar and CM Jirachi all the same. Hope this helped (can I get my free cookie now? ^^)

Jun 6th, 2010, 11:56:35 PM	#9
Felerial Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 28	Scizor and Gengar wreck ghost types. I've literally never had problems with them. Wish Vaporeon is turning out to be a big nuisance for me, and T-Tar would only exacerbate that problem I would think. I'll try out the bulkier Gyara. I was thinking of actually trying him out as a rest talker to counter Brelooms spore a bit, but i'm worried that I would be giving up too much offensive power from my team. shrug More testing to be done. __________________ RMT's - Beginner's Luck War Stories - SURPRISE! An OU Warstory , Down to the wire! An OU Warstory Last edited by Felerial; Jun 7th, 2010 at 11:25:28 AM.

Jun 7th, 2010, 11:57:01 PM	#11
Pokethan Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 528 Wyncote, PA	I am not an expert at OU but it seems like Electivire could help you out here because it gives you another pokemon immune to electricity and doesn't make you too vulnerable to EQ since you also have 4 pokemon already on the team that are immune. Electivire can absorb the electric moves from Jolteon and Zapdos if you set it up right and then with the speed boost it can sweep an entire team. I think a the physical moveset could work best but its up to you because then it can STAB Thunderpunch through Vaporeon too.

Jun 11th, 2010, 11:03:51 PM	#12
Eggbert Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,072	Just a nitpick: Scarfgar is great, but timid should be used, as modest fails to outspeed +1 salamence. Yes, you can play around salamence, but having a back-up option to simply outspeed should be more important than some extra power considering salamence is on 20% of all teams and can really cause some problems with magnezone. For this reason, a shed shell on skarmory might be a good idea. HP Fire is your opinion, but CBzor can "outspeed" anyway. HP nails salamence where shadow ball only manages 53.5% - 62.8%, never KOing even with rocks up. Also, like skarmory, you could up scizor's speed to get the first superpower in 1v1. Like said above, your team is massively weak to jolteon. But instead of electivire a bulky CBtar could be used to trap jolteon with pursuit, and deal with rotom. Tyranitar@Choice Band 252 HP/42 Atk/216 Spd Careful -Crunch -Stone Edge -Pursuit -Aqua Tail/EQ

Jun 12th, 2010, 2:27:51 AM	#14
Doctor Who? Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 136	I hate to reiterate what has already been suggested and you have rejected, but run Rotom-A>>Gengar. You easily lose Gengar to Scarftar very easily. Also you need the Electric resistance for what I'm about to suggest. Don't run a Scarf set because anything with Pursuit that resists your move can beat you up. Instead run a bulky set with Will-o-wisp and Thunderbolt. This is to counter Gyarados better as any Scarftar with Gyarados combination really sweeps this team without a bulky Rotom set. The third and fourth moves are your choice. Run Scarftar>>Swampert and Skarmory in the lead position with Stealth Rock>>Brave Bird. I never found Brave Bird useful since a move that hurts a tank/wall seems pretty redundant no matter how much power it has. Scarftar also helps with the Ghost-type weakness you have, which was previously mentioned by Delko. Run Stone Edge>>EQ on Gyarados because of the poor coverage which your current set has. Sometimes I miss EQ but mostly I am happy with SE. Hope I helped. __________________ I have retired from competitive battling after a (not so) successful two years. I might check back up here on occasion so if you want me to rate then drop me a pm but try not to get your hopes too high :/

Jun 12th, 2010, 12:33:11 PM	#15
Phantom_IV Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 651 University of Maryland	A while back, someone made a suggestion to replace Gengar with Scarfed Rotom-A, and I would agree with this. Rotom hits harder than Gengar due to a higher BP STAB and is bulkier. Not to mention it has superior coverage with the help of its second STAB. In the absence of Tyranitar, scarfed Rotom becomes very hard to stop with its 2 neutral STABS and good bulk. It's a great Lucario check and isn't as Scizor weak. Use the following set: Rotom-A @ Choice Scarf Timid 38 HP/252 spA/220 Speed Thunderbolt Shadow Ball Trick HP Fighting / Will-o-Wisp It outruns jolly Kingdra/Gyara/Dragonite after a DD (not that important of a benchmark, but good enough), and can survive a scarf Heatran Fire Blast even after SR. (Which is important, as many Heatrans are either scarfed or hold a non boosting item like Shuca Berry). Max speed could be used to force a tie with other scarfed Rotoms, though I usually prefer the extra hp, as Rotom-A is pretty bulky. Final move is for Tyranitar or Scizor switch-ins. HP Fighting 2HKOs non bulky tyranitar (like scarftar) and both Tyranitar and Scizor dislike WoW. __________________ "Paper working as intended. Nerf rock." -Scissors "Give a man a fish, you'll feed him for a day. Give him access to the internet and he won't bother you for weeks."

Jun 14th, 2010, 12:49:59 AM	#16
HeiSe Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4	Change Scizor's Spe EV's to 4 and put the extra ones in SpD. Being out sped by other Scizor means that you will OHKO them after their Superpower fails to OHKO you and puts them at -1 Defense, and having a slower U-Turn is much better for scouting. Your extreme weakness to LO Starmie is also unsettling, as you have absolutely nothing to switch into him while he OHKO's Gyara, Mence, Skarm, Sciz (100% OHKO with Hydro Pump after two SR switchins) and Gengar. Smart players will be suspicious once you switch in Gengar after their Starmie has fainted something and will switch to scout your set. For this reason I'd like to recommend Lanturn. Besides acting as one of the best Starmie checks in existence, it also counters many problem pokemon for your team, such as most forms of Jirachi, checks SpecsJolt, and pairs very nicely with Gyarados, taking Elec attacks while Gyara takes Ground type attacks. I would recommend you replace your Swampert with this set, while moving Skarm to the lead position as someone else has suggested. The set is 52 HP/ 56 Spe/ 148 SpD/ 252 SpA with a Modest nature with Substitute/ChargeBeam/IceBeam/Hydropump with Leftovers. And yeah, Stone Edge over EQ on Gyara. Otherwise he gets ruined by other Gyarados and fails to do jack to Mence

Jun 14th, 2010, 1:03:34 AM	#17
Lucien Lachance Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 669 HIAL UNREALCOMMIE!!!!1	you have 2 defence walls, swampert and skarmory, and you have nothing to wall special attack. If you want to keep skarm, dump EV's into SpD and give it a careful nature. Or, if you will, dump swampert and get a blissey. Have blissey know SR though, cuz they seems important. Then you need a new lead... Gyara as a lead seems insane, but since no common leads use T-bolt, you're safe from electric attacks. Taunt can be helpful to stop set-ups in their tracks while DD, waterfall and either EQ or SE destroy the opponents team. Hope I helped! __________________ Aaron Traylor (Unreality) is in a relationship with Jenny Berman (Solace). <Unreality> like i just ooze asexuality or something <JRank> guys more people from smogon posted on fb than irl people <JRank> like a lot more <JRank> what does that say about me

Jun 18th, 2010, 3:41:49 AM	#20
Nick1103 Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3	Really good team, sorry to say you can be completly walled by a vaporeon with toxic and a standard scarfgon. I recomend using a subgengar to help you, even though you lose your speed if they switch out or protect ect. You have sub to Hide behind and can attack while being safe, because of gengars pitiful defences __________________ GO GENGAR XD Last edited by Bloo; Jun 19th, 2010 at 11:51:42 AM.

Jun 19th, 2010, 1:47:57 PM	#23
Rayquaza2233 Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 573 Mississauga	Another spinning option is Tentacruel. It spins, sets up Toxic Spikes (really messes up bulky waters like Vaporeon), and it is a pretty decent special wall.

Jun 19th, 2010, 5:30:34 PM	#25
Eggbert Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,072	Starmie makes a great lead. (LO) You can destroy the other lead, then spin while you break their sashes. However, you would need to replace either swampert or skarmory. Considering how weak your team is to specs jolt and another electric weak, I would make this over skarmory. Azelf: Hydropump, then rapid spin while you break their sash Swampert: You could run grass knot, or 2HKO with hydropump Metagross: Even surf 2HKOs. Heatran: lol gliscor:lol Aerodactyl:lol, but if they rock slide first, you have to switch to scizor and u-turn. Machamp:switch to gyarados Roserade: this is a problem. ape:lol You don't have to run it as a lead though. I would strongly advise a tyranitar at this point, because specs jolt runs through most of this team.