Infernape

[General Tso]

Surprised no one has made a thread about one of the most used pokemon in Gen IV. This thread is intended to stir up discussion of Infernape's uses in Gen V.




Name: Infernape

Type: Fire/Fighting

Base Stats: 76/104/71/104/71/108

Ability: Blaze - When this pokemon's HP hits below 1/3, it's Fire power increases by 1.5
Iron Fist - The power of punching moves are increased 20%.

Movepool:

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Level Up - Lv1: Scratch, Lv1: Leer, Lv1: Ember, Lv1: Taunt, Lv7: Ember, Lv9: Taunt, Lv14: Mach Punch, Lv16: Fury Swipes, Lv19: Flame Wheel, Lv26: Feint, Lv29: Punishment, Lv36: Close Combat, Lv42: Fire Spin, Lv52: [M512], Lv58: Calm Mind, Lv68: Flare Blitz

Egg Moves - Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Double Kick, Encore, Heat Wave, Focus Energy, Helping Hand, Fake Out, Blaze Kick, Counter, Assist, [M501]Fast Guard, Focus Punch, Submission

TM/HM - TM01 - Claw Sharpen, TM04 - Calm Mind, TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM08 - Bulk Up, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM12 - Taunt, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM26 - Earthquake, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM31 - Brick Break, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM39 - Rock Tomb, TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM41 - Torment, TM42 - Facade, TM43 - Nitro Charge, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM47 - Ankle Sweep, TM48 - Troll, TM50 - Overheat, TM52 - Focus Blast, TM56 - Fling, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM61 - Will-O-Wisp, TM62 - Acrobat, TM65 - Shadow Claw, TM67 - Get Even, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM71 - Stone Edge, TM75 - Swords Dance, TM78 - Smooth Over, TM80 - Rock Slide, TM83 - Cheer Up, TM84 - Poison Jab, TM86 - Grass Knot, TM87 - Swagger, TM89 - U-Turn, TM90 - Substitute, TM94 - Rock Smash, HM01 - Cut, HM04 - Strength

New Move Descriptions:

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Move Name Category Type PP Power Acc Additional Effects
[M501]Fast Guard Other Fighting 15 --- --- Protects your team from priority moves. Will fail if used in succession.
[M512]Acrobat Physical Flying 15 55 100 Allows the user to hit the opposite opponent in a Triple Battle.
[M526]Cheer Up Other Normal 30 --- --- Raises the user's Atk and SpAtk.

Comments:

Well it seems my favorite pokemon has been usurped thanks to Speed Boost Blaziken, but fear not fellow Infernape fans! Infernape will still have its uses. For one, it has the immediate speed advantage over Blaziken and it also still has a much wider movepool. Iron Fist now makes Fire Punch base 90 power giving Infernape a much more non-self destructive STAB albeit at a lower base power and without Blaze. Let's not forget the new Cheer Up which boosts Atk and Sp Atk, furthering Infernape's mix attacking capabilities. It's not all easy for Infernape though. New pokemon like the new ghosts Shanderraa and Burunkerru resist both his STABs as well. Infernape though is still a menacing threat that is hard to predict, tread wisely when you face it.

Potential Movesets:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
Nature:Naive (+Spd, -Sp Def)
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Sp Atk / 192 Spd
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast/Flamethrower
-Close Combat
-Grass Knot

Set Up MixApe, something Infernape can still over Blaziken. Nasty Plot could be dropped for something like HP Ice for Salamence and the like but you'd sacrifice the stat up. Fire Blast is preferred over Flamethrower because of the sheer power it provides in conjunction with Nasty Plot. Shanderra unfortunately walls every move and just like last gen, Tentacruel and Starmie will still give you problems as well. Speed can be adjusted accordingly, this will allow Infernape to tie neutral max EV +1 Tyranitar.

I would like to include sets that Infernape does uniquely and not outclassed by Blaziken.

Speed tiers can be found here: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...CJWez7gB#gid=0

Conclusion: What role will Infernape have in Gen 5? Will it be totally replaced by Blaziken? Can it still be viable in OU? What will it now counter? What will it now be countered by?

[pokemon]

Its more like this:

Infernape@Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/ 244 SAtk, 200 Spe
Nature: Hasty/Naive
Moves:

Cheer Up
Fire Blast
Close Combat
Hidden Power Ice


Cheer Up is your mixed stat sweeper boost thing. Fire Blast and Close Combat hit for STAB and different sides of the spectrum. HP ice is to rape Randorosu the 101 base speed Ground/Flying poke, which is also why I run 200 Spe with Naive/Hasty.


Infernape@Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Nature: Jolly
Moves:
Swords Dance
Fire Punch
Mach Punch
Close Combat/Stone Edge


This set takes advantage of Iron Fist, boosting Fire Punch and Mach Punch to insane levels. Now Mach Punches do 64 Damage with STAB and Fire Punches do 120 Damage with STAB. Close Combat is your best move, 120 BP with Swords Dance and STAB hits like a truck against anything that doesn't resist/immune to it. Stone Edge takes care of Flying types.

[-Manaphy--]

Infernape, for the most part, is outclassed by Blaziken. He has higher Attacking stast(120/110), Sowrds Dance, and Speed Boost, which make up for the lack of coverage that Infernape has over him.

Infernape has one thing though; He can lead a Team Better.


Infernape @ Focus Sash Blaze
64 Attack / 252 Sp.Atk / 192 Speed Naive (+Speed -Sp.Def)
~Fake Out
~Close Combat
~Fire Blast
~Stealth Rock

Speed Boost and SR is an Illegal combo on Blaziken, and Infernape also gets Fake Out, which lets him stop Focus Sash Leads better than Mach Punch due to it's Flinch.

[General Tso]

^I'm hearing different things about breeding Dream World Abilities.

If it's true, I just realized that Infernape would not be able to use Iron Fist with Fire Punch and Thunder Punch which makes the ability redundant...

[iruchii]

I guess Infernape sets will all have to use Thunderpunch/Grass Knot, or else Burunkeru will wall it to no end.

Anyway, I agree with Manaphy that it's still a potent lead- specially since it can OHKO Erufuun. It will have a few problems with the Espeon and its new ability, though.

[Thorhammer]

Breeding Dream World abilities hasn't been fully tested yet, but everything points to it being possible.

[-Manaphy--]

My Bad; Blaziken doesn't even learn Stealth Rock.


So Infernape would be a better lead no matter what. :<

[manav95]

Infernape sucks now. It is outclassed.

[joker120]

Originally Posted by Fat -Manaphy--

My Bad; Blaziken doesn't even learn Stealth Rock.


So Infernape would be a better lead no matter what. :<

I still don't think Blaziken has outclassed Infernape because speed boot requires a turn to set up. this means you have to have good prediction skills and come in on a NFE move. It is that or sacrifice move slot for protect or substitute. Infernape still has immediate damage upon switch in going for him along with immediate speed. Infernape has a better movepool as well.

[Subzer0]

Infernape had its fun this gen, but its new and improved big brother, Blaziken is back to take its crown this gen! Though still, he is still a force to be dealt with. he can now use mixed sets better now, with Cheer up.

[General Tso]

I read somewhere Speed Boost doesn't activate upon switching in, is that right?

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat joker120

I still don't think Blaziken has outclassed Infernape because speed boot requires a turn to set up. this means you have to have good prediction skills and come in on a NFE move. It is that or sacrifice move slot for protect or substitute. Infernape still has immediate damage upon switch in going for him along with immediate speed. Infernape has a better movepool as well.

What does that have to do with Infernape being a better lead? >.>


Infernape's better movepool is rather subsided by the fact that Blaziken has much better offensive stats(120/110 compared to 104/104), and that goes even further with Swords Dance. The immediate damage you talked about would make Infernape more of a revenge killer, since any switch-in Infernape has(if any, with his frailness) is easily done better by Blaziken.(who is also Bulkier) After that, the opponent would most likely switch out, letting Blaziken get to +1 Speed and immediately be better than Infernape in all aspects.

[bludhoundz]

I think he has more value as a Choice Scarfer, since he'll initially have higher speed he can revenge kill threats more easily than Blaziken, who has to wait a turn to speed up.

Also Close Combat is far more reliable for late game cleaning than Superpower or High Jump Kick

@manaphy -- Blaziken's superior bulk to Infernape's is so miniscule that it's hardly worth mentioning

[IcyMan28]

Infernape@Choice Scarf
Naive; 6 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

HP Ice
U-Turn
Fire Blast
Close Combat

This Infernape takes advantage of its initially higher speed, mixed offenses, access to U-Turn, and a solid fighting move in the form of CC to distinguish itself from Blaziken. HP Ice lets it revenge the many dragons scampering about, while U-Turn lets it scout its switch-ins. Fire Blast is powerful STAB that allows it to deal consistent damage, and has the advantage of revenging fast Steels that other Scarfers have trouble with, such as Jirachi and Metagross. Close Combat is in the last slot as an excellent fighting attack to punish a wider variety of opponents such as Blissey and Sazandora, but should be used carefully.

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat bludhoundz

I think he has more value as a Choice Scarfer, since he'll initially have higher speed he can revenge kill threats more easily than Blaziken, who has to wait a turn to speed up.

Also Close Combat is far more reliable for late game cleaning than Superpower or High Jump Kick

@manaphy -- Blaziken's superior bulk to Infernape's is so miniscule that it's hardly worth mentioning

Doesn't High Jump Kick have like 140 or something Base Power now?

And Yeah, Infernape does seem like a good Choice Scarfer. The Scarf Set seems like a good check to Blaziken.

[Raptorg]

Infernape could take care of Shanderaa by using Earthquake and Stone Edge, both are super effective, essentially nullifying the fact that it resists both its stabs, because it will like get OHKO'd anyway if running an offensive set.

Sooo..

Infernape @ Choice Band/Scarf.
Ability: Iron Fist.
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe.
Jolly/Adamant Nature.

-Fire Punch.
-Close Combat.
-Thunder Punch/Stone Edge.
-U-turn.

Coverage should be perfect with so many moves, U-turn to scout, especially with Shadow Tag Shanderaa threatening you as it can come in on both STABs.
Stone Edge vs Thunder Punch.. Basically, depends on what you hate the most. Unless I'm forgetting something, you'll have perfect neutral coverage.

This is based on the assumption that Infernape can use its Egg moves and Dream World ability.

I realize it might not be ideal, but I've always been a fan of physical Infernape.

[The King of Harts]

@Icyman

I don't think you need to invest the full 252 in Speed. 212 puts him at 501, which is faster than ScarfChomp, and that's all he really needs to out speed unless those handful of 105's decide to Scarf it up. Thanks to that you can put the rest in Attack to boost U-Turn and Close Combat.

[Raptorg]

Originally Posted by Fat General Tso

I read somewhere Speed Boost doesn't activate upon switching in, is that right?

Currently it happens at the end of every turn, so if you come in after something on your team faints, it won't happen, but if you come in by switching, it does happen.

[DropTheNuke]

How viable would a Focus Punch + Iron Fist set be? Focus Punch becomes a 180BP move with STAB, which would wreck quite a few Pokemon outright. Switch in on something like the Grass/Steel, who can't do much to Infernape, and start firing FPs at anything that moves.

[-Manaphy--]

Originally Posted by Fat DropTheNuke

How viable would a Focus Punch + Iron Fist set be? Focus Punch becomes a 180BP move with STAB, which would wreck quite a few Pokemon outright. Switch in on something like the Grass/Steel, who can't do much to Infernape, and start firing FPs at anything that moves.

Blaziken does that better thanks to Speed Boost, and higher attack to overcome the added Iron Fist damage.

[Raptorg]

Originally Posted by Fat DropTheNuke

How viable would a Focus Punch + Iron Fist set be? Focus Punch becomes a 180BP move with STAB, which would wreck quite a few Pokemon outright. Switch in on something like the Grass/Steel, who can't do much to Infernape, and start firing FPs at anything that moves.

Well, ideally you would have to run substitute, which in itself demands leftovers, so you will lose the boost from Life Orb or Choice Band.
Meaning that the difference between Close Combat and Focus Punch isn't that big.

LO Close Combat + STAB = 234 BP.
Focus Punch + STAB + Iron Fist = 270 BP.

So you're actually trading the reliability of Close Combat and an additional coverage move for 36 BP on your main STAB move.

You could run without Substitute and Leftovers and go for a 351 BP Focus Punch, but if your opponents decides to stay in and attack.. You're screwed because Infernape just isn't that sturdy and will likely die soonafter.

[domeface]

Shouldn't 'Nape be running max speed now there are so many base 108s?

[IcyMan28]

Originally Posted by Fat domeface

Shouldn't 'Nape be running max speed now there are so many base 108s?

Definitely. It can hit 3 of the 4 Base 108 fighting types for SE damage, and will want to get the jump on Denchura to avoid being stricken by Thunder.

I don't think you need to invest the full 252 in Speed. 212 puts him at 501, which is faster than ScarfChomp, and that's all he really needs to out speed unless those handful of 105's decide to Scarf it up. Thanks to that you can put the rest in Attack to boost U-Turn and Close Combat.

I went with the full 252 EVs because we aren't exactly sure what speeds will be important in the metagame these days. Sand Throw Doryuuzu, Speed Boost Blaziken, ScarfKojondo, etc are all viable threats. Agility sweepers with lower speeds (ie Agiligross) will be trying to outpace new threats...so to be safe max speed to start with seems like the way to go. The spread can be adjusted in the future.

[The King of Harts]

Originally Posted by Fat domeface

Shouldn't 'Nape be running max speed now there are so many base 108s?

I don't see any of the other 108's other than maybe Kerudio running Scarf sets. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't see it. If I'm wrong, well, switch up the EVs, but I think for now it's safe to not max out speed.

[Noble Cactus]

I find it odd Gamefreak didn't give 'Nape Limber. I mean, he is a monkey/ape mix after all. It would've given him a little edge over Blaziken too, as both are stopped cold by Paralysis. Then again, this is Gamefreak logic.