OverPower - The Reason why Average Pokés are going to lose space in Gen V teams.

[KokoaKiwi]

I love playing with my favorite pokes. If they're outclassed in some way, I'll just abuse their niche.
Sadly, Shanderaa is hands down my favourite pokemon from Gen V. Based on its desing, I loved it. Then, I found out about Shadow Tag and 145 SpA, which made me happy but at the same time I'm mayorly hoping it won't get banned. At the very least, ban ST, but not the pokémon itself. :3

[Sandstreamer]

I love playing with my favorite pokes. If they're outclassed in some way, I'll just abuse their niche.

Most interestingly, it seems like GF does too. Hence, Butterfly Dance and Shell Break and stuff like this. I mean, I expected the new generation to have pokemon that just look insanely powerful (like every new generation had) and bring some additions and new niches to old pokemon (like every generation did), but that we are now talking about using Ninetails, Politoed, Ditto, Cloyster and Blaziken in OU (again) is just great. =)

[Fisdunction]

Originally Posted by Fat Mien.

A generic tourneyfag will always choose the best, that's nothing new from this generation.

ftfy

[Örly]

You don't even know what you are talking about.

[Granstafer]

I'm still trying to comprehend all of this. I spent the past two days comprehending onokusu. That's one of... 140 ish pokes.

[Arc Tech]

With the intoduction of new good pokemon and the buffing of other old pokemon, it means that these "average" pokemon are no longer average- they are now below average.

Also, please remember there is more than one tier. If these new/buffed "over"powered pokemon come to dominate OU, you can always play uu or a lower tier.

[SHUCKLE MAN]

That was a rather interesting OP! :D

But I was thinking, if sweepers do become dominant, and tanks rare, then I was thinking surely all the best sweepers would be OU and UU, leaving the best tanks and the poor sweepers in NU, etc. So whilst one tier might be offensively orientated, I'm not sure they'll all be.

[diamondfan1910]

I sort of wanted to stop reading when you put E-vire and Shanderaa in the same sub-section. Sorry, but Shanderaa is in a different class to E-vire and a hell of a lot more Pokemon besides.

[Omnipresent]

It's going to be like a river after a hurricane. Everything is gonna be stirred up, but things will calm down and have a central balance.

On another note I've been looking at stats too much. The weather channel was on and I saw 92 95 100 86 89 89 and I was like meh, decent stats.

[Rhiehn]

Garchomp is better than every single new poke besides the >600 BSTs, except maybe shanderaa.

[Karpi]

Originally Posted by Fat NeoSeth

The most used are versatile and can perform many jobs, often at once.

For an example, Heatran. It can be defensive or offensive, or a lead, and perform many tasks at once. It can attack with Fire Blast, set-up Stealth Rock, lure special walls and blow up on them, all with one set. Then look at Tyrannitar. What CAN'T Tyrannitar do? It can go Special, Physical, Mixed, Defensive (Both ways), set-up sweeper, Choice Scarf, etc. These Pokemon are common for a reason: They do a lot of stuff.

You are forgetting the other half of the top used pokemon. Gyarados does exactly two things: sweeps with dragon dance/waterfall/stone edge/ice fang or earthquake OR phazes with Rest/sleep talk/waterfall/roar

those are virtually the only sets gyarados used throughout all of 4th gen. Granted, you can play with his EV spread, but that hardly counts as versatile.

Then we have scizor, who nearly always runs a choice ban set with the same moves.

Swampert's list of frequently used moves is incredibly tiny too, as it is simply a bulky water stealth rock user.

Lucario, well, if you take a look at usage stats you will see that nobody uses specs. It uses a grand total of five moves.

That is all these pokemon NEED to do well. The number of pokemon with an obvious use balances out the diverse pokemon

[ItemsGuy]

Hey look it's Rhyperior again.

Also, you're forgetting that creative teams and clever trainers play a big role in this. If these threats are as big and common as you say they're going to be, they'll be a lot easier to predict, and a lot easier to prepair for. Remember when Bullet Punch Scizor came out? There was a Scizor counter on every team.

The metagame sorts itself out. Also, I've lost count of how many Blisseys (among the other "best" OU special walls) I've demolished with my Torkoal because lol people don't know Torkoal explodes olololol

[R.B.G.]

In the OP, you forgot to mention Garchomp, who undoubtedly will be top 5 OU. The "shadow tag candle" known as Shanderaa isn't a gimmick. That shit is deadly.

[FelGrand]

If Shadow Tag Candle is gimmick, imma label Dugtrio and Wobb as gimmick.

[heroic poke]

All I can say about the OP is...

DERP DERP DERP

No, I don't mean to flame. I just want to state my lack of words for the OP because...well...

DERP DERP DERP

Now kidding aside, Ononokosu, is just another Salamence without the 4x weakness but without Intimidate and slightly worse defenses and troll-slow speed. My Focus Sash Weavile can smack this thing around with Ice Punch even before the Sash breaks. Or a Life Orb Ice Shard after Ono gets +1. And Weavile's one of the lesser OU pokes. Oh did I mention ScarfStar's Ice Beam?

There are so many other examples, like Sazando--SLOW AS HELL. Super Sweeper Firefly? Say hello to Stealth Rock. Or beg for mercy as my SUBROOST Aerodactyl Rock Slides you to oblivion (and that's a suboptimal Aero set).

These new specialized pokes are good, and I like them a lot, it's a step in the right direction of the game's evolution. It's healthy. It's good. And IT'S NOT BY ANY MEANS BROKEN AT A FIRST, SECOND, AND THIRD GLANCE. We've all been there before, and the reason we still enjoy competitive battling is not just because of the evolving design of game mechanics, but because the players simply find ways to adapt--movesets, play styles, or even something as simple as TIERING.

It's all good guys. Don't overhype the changes. It'll still be fun, just different. It could even be more fun than you think.

[NeoSeth]

Originally Posted by Fat Karpi

You are forgetting the other half of the top used pokemon. Gyarados does exactly two things: sweeps with dragon dance/waterfall/stone edge/ice fang or earthquake OR phazes with Rest/sleep talk/waterfall/roar

those are virtually the only sets gyarados used throughout all of 4th gen. Granted, you can play with his EV spread, but that hardly counts as versatile.

Then we have scizor, who nearly always runs a choice ban set with the same moves.

Swampert's list of frequently used moves is incredibly tiny too, as it is simply a bulky water stealth rock user.

Lucario, well, if you take a look at usage stats you will see that nobody uses specs. It uses a grand total of five moves.

That is all these pokemon NEED to do well. The number of pokemon with an obvious use balances out the diverse pokemon

I don't think I defined versatility well enough in my post, or at least as I was thinking of it at the time.

Gyarados can be tweaked to beat on defensive teams with that Taunt set, or go all-out LO sweeper. It does a fair job of countering other threats too, like Infernape, Heatran and Scizor. It also beats other Bulky waters without HP Electric, since Taunt prevents status and most other waters can't really hurt it back.

Right there I listed several different jobs one Pokemon can do with one set. it counters several Pokemon by setting up on them and thereby can really patch up a team. That's more versatile than, say, using Quagsire in Ubers to beat Kyogre, since Quagsire doesn't really do much else. A "Specialized" Pokemon as I was defining it is one that counters a very small group of Pokemon and is used as sort of a utility counter against those Pokemon. It doesn't see much use since it only really does that one thing.

Scizor was specialized, but still widely used simply because of the raw power of Dragon Dancers in OU and the fact that Scizor (being Steel) resisted Outrage. Once Salamence was removed, Scizor did drop in usage. I feel like Scizor's massive popularity was because it's job (Countering Dragon Dancers) was currently something that most players really needed done on their team. Then to counter that you had Magnezone, who is really a niche Pokemon. But in this metagame, that niche is incredibly relevant and useful, since many Pokemon are far harder to stop without Steels to resist their attacks. Scarftar also become popular in this way, as Latias became more powerful, and people wanted to stop it.

As the metagame shifts, some specialty Pokemon will become vastly popular because their specialty is currently needed to counter a dominant force in the metagame. If that force remains dominant, then the specialty Pokemon remains popular, like Scizor. But I wouldn't call Lucario a specialty Pokemon, since it does have those key resistances that allow it to patch up many holes on your team. Swampert does the same, although more defensively and without nearly as much offensive presence.

So I see what you're saying, I just don't think those Pokemon were "specialty". They still do a lot with a little when you really get break them down and look at them.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Fisdunction

ftfy

You're not a unique snowflake just because you use "your favorites". It does not make you a better, more skilled or whatever else person just because someone else likes to "play to win", or any other "negative" quality you think a competitive player would have.

[Johnny_Darko]

Garchomp is an excellent check to the meta this time around when equipped with a Choice Scarf. He can basically guarantee a revenge kill against any setup sweeper people seem to think counts as a threat. Shanderaa trapping will also be an effective way to counter certain threats, but is honestly a bit over-hyped. Choice Scarf Ditto can also be utilized, though people might work around this in their own ways. There's more checks where that came from. Sweepers aren't going to be too terribly good in this gen, to be completely honest. From what I've seen, it will be about trading KOs more than ever before.

[bubbly]

I think the OP is mostly a combination of overhypea and fear that his favourite pokemon will get knocked out of OU (possibly! no offense meant).

You can go AHAHAHAH WE'RE GOING TO DIE all you like at the ridiculous offensive stats but they also need to be coupled up with other stats. Ononokusu should not really be hyped - in fact it looks like being considerably outshone by a number of other pokemon, such as Sazando (which has defenses and mixed offense, e.g. these ARE still useful), Doryuuzu which admittedly focuses on extreme power and speed and thats about it, Shanderaa which abuses its abilities and massive SpAttack/typing, and the legendaries which may be in OU. The one I'm thinking about is Kyuremu which has the stats, even with its poor typing, to tear through unprepared teams.

This has happened before, of course. Each generation has created a set of powerful offensive pokemon. I actually like the way the metagame's going - its no longer "shove Blissey in front of a special attack" endless boredom, you have to be constantly alert and prepared to sacrifice.

[Bloodbath]

To be honest I don't feel threatened... Mainly cause 1) Ditto gets awesomeness! 2) T-Tar is still a bad ass (considering that it can smack out Shanderaa indefinably) and There's a few new pokes I'm itching to try that I liked before I knew thier abilities.. eg: Fully evolved Smugleaf with Perversity from the Dream World might be pretty decent from it's defense and speed plus with you getting plus 2 every leaf storm...... Then there's Shanderaa who I liked for it's cuteness.

[Murkglow]

Originally Posted by Fat Omnipresent

The weather channel was on and I saw 92 95 100 86 89 89 and I was like meh, decent stats.

I laughed.

Anyway, yeah, I'm not that worried. At least not regarding this kind of stuff. There are other things that bother me more about the coming gen then this (like the potential team reveling).

[Kyreth]

Originally Posted by Fat JSND

hmm you are missing one interesting pokemon.
The great offensive terror that is cloyster

Folks I think were reserving their opinion until we were sure Shell Break worked the way we thought- a +2 offense, -1 defense deal.

But like I said, sweepers now have a risk, and that risk is Choice Scarf Ditto. Talk about Generation I Pokemon who took that level in butt kicking...

[thisguy]

aight errbody ima use seeking and sweep all yalls team peace

[red12345]

I think what he's trying to say is stuff like Clefable are going to lose their place. Stats matter a lot more is what he's saying.

I, on the other hand, see the meta diversifying. The sheer amount of options is my reason.