Infernape

[Barilzar]

Couldn't we still suicide with 'Nape or has he become to slow for that?

[shipship]

Here are my suggestions:

Infernape @ Life Orb
Timid, Blaze
252 SpAtk, 6 SpDef, 252 Speed
~ Nasty Plot
~ Fire Blast
~ Vacuum Wave
~ Focus Blast / HP Ice

Nasty Plot is something Blaziken can't do, which makes it a solid option. I'm not suggesting Close Combat because you have to split EV's to make it work, at which point just use Blaziken honestly. Plus a big selling point of this set is having Nasty Plot and priority on the same set.

Explanation as to why I put the leftover 6 EV's in SpDef: download Porygon-Z, rofl. I mean that 1 point won't make a difference anywhere else anyway, so why not?

Infernape @ Choice Band
Jolly, Blaze
252 Atk, 6 SpDef, 252 Speed
~ Flare Blitz
~ Close Combat
~ U-turn
~ Stone Edge

Why Choice Band? Because Infernape is a better Choice Bander than Blaziken due to higher initial speed, and the ability to U-turn. Because Blaziken has Speed Boost, he does not want to be locked into 1 move, making Infernape a better user of Choice Band.

[Sir_Lu]

Originally Posted by Fat joker120

I still don't think Blaziken has outclassed Infernape because speed boot requires a turn to set up. this means you have to have good prediction skills and come in on a NFE move. It is that or sacrifice move slot for protect or substitute. Infernape still has immediate damage upon switch in going for him along with immediate speed. Infernape has a better movepool as well.

I feel you have some veracity in that statement. Blaziken needs a turn to really do something; Infernape needs none. I feel although that fast, readily available power could find him a nice niche in some teams.

[Wafflez]

Originally Posted by Fat General Tso

Infernape will still have its uses.

Yah in BL.


Only thing i can see Infernape doing now is something like Cheer Up,Fire Blast,Close Combat,Grass knot which is kinda scary for stall.Sorry the days of the ugly monkey are long gone....Now the Gangstar Chicken shall reign supreme.

[soul_survivor]

blaziken and infernape both are going to be outclassed but i can see BOTH of them in the ou because they'll be to good for UU.

[sundy]

Originally Posted by Fat timejirachi

blaziken and infernape both are going to be outclassed but i can see BOTH of them in the ou because they'll be to good for UU.

Yep I agree.

[TickingSeedotBomb]

I'm kinda angry that Blaziken got Speed boost while Infernape gets Iron Fist which doesn't help much. He still has better lead qualities and movepool but other than that Blaziken does a much better job (to my dismay)

[soul_survivor]

yea what i say is who was ou in the 4th gen. it was obviously infernape. so infernape has a better chance of ending up in ou or bl.

[HiddenDragon72]

hmm infernape hasn't had a lot of the updates other poke have in the new gen so he might have a hard time keeping up. I hope he stays in OU but it wouldn't be a surprise to find him BL ;)

[some hero]

Originally Posted by Fat joker120

I still don't think Blaziken has outclassed Infernape because speed boot requires a turn to set up. this means you have to have good prediction skills and come in on a NFE move. It is that or sacrifice move slot for protect or substitute. Infernape still has immediate damage upon switch in going for him along with immediate speed. Infernape has a better movepool as well.

Well not really.Blaziken can run a mixed set that would outclass the Monkey.

A simple set like this:

Blaziken@ LO
Naughty
Speed Boost
252 Atk/100 SpA/152 Spe
-Hi Jump Kick
-Fire Blast
-Stone Edge
-Baton Pass/Vacum Wave/Thunderpunch/Hidden Power [Ice]/[Grass]


The EV's give these stats: 301/372/176/281/158/234.This set outclasses Infernape.

Both can switch into basically the same thing, let's say Forretress.You can either use Fire Blast,Hi Jump Kick or Stone Edge.Whatever is up to you.

Now, since this isn't looking to set up, you attack with Fire Blast.If they switch you just hurt something with a 120 Stabed attack.But now your speed is at 352..Meaning this Blaziken is already faster than the Monkey after scaring something away.Now if your faster you can Baton Pass a +1 speed to whatever you want.

This is a win/win because the Blaziken user did not waste anything.The speed boost was for free for the user but not for the opponent since they took a stabbed/LO attack and have to deal with a 352 speed Pokemon.

Also, don't say that the Blaziken is weak to priority.Since i am comparing this to the Monkey, and the Monkey is also weak to priority.

Basically after one turn(if you switched into a defensive steel) Blaziken becomes a faster Monkey with higer attacking stats...That has the option to automatically pass a +1 speed to a teamate.

[Tobes]

That's actually a really cool set hero, although I would prefer running 244 speed to beat Scarftar.

[Lee]

I would like to include sets that Infernape does uniquely and not outclassed by Blaziken.

Did this bring a tear to anybody elses eye? :')

If you're going to use Infernape without being 'outclassed' your best options are probably LeadApe or ScarfApe.

LeadApe's success will depend on how the 'lead metagame' develops but he proved himself to be a reliable lead throughout most of DPPt so I'm sure he'll do just fine in that role.

Although the popularity of the set probably contradicts me, I always thought ScarfApe was one of the best (Scarf) revenge-killers in all of DPPt.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Naive
68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderpunch / U-turn

In the 4th gen, he was a reliable revenge killer to ScarfChomp, DDTyranitar, DDMence, AgilaGross, DDGyarados, NPAzelf, SDWeavile, SDScizor, AgilityEmpoleon and many more.

In the 5th Gen, you can add the likes of Uragamosu, SDTerakion, Ononokusu, Shell-Break Cloyster, Speed Boost Blaziken etc to that list.

Blaziken can't do this. When it comes to revenge-killing, he's too slow on the turn that counts most.

[Wynought]

Infernape @ Leftovers
Iron Fist
Jolly
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
~ Substitute
~ Focus Punch
~ Mach Punch - If able
~ Stone Egde / Thunderpunch - If Able

STAB'd Iron Fist boosted Focus Punch sounds nice.

[lmitchell0012]

Why does everyone keep saying that infernape is outclassed by blaziken?? If anything, it's the other way round! Sure, blaziken got speed boost but as stated previously by many others it takes time for blaziken to get set up. Infernape can come in and start tearing up the metagame as soon as he gets in. Also, blaziken lacks the ability to damage ground and water types, which infernape can do very well (grass knot). Blaziken also has no means of boosting his special attack, whereas infernape can boost his attack or special attack 2 stages in 1 turn! Also, infernape gets priority attacks from both sides of the spectrum (blaziken does get vacuum wave, but he doesn't get mach punch) Finally, infernape has stealth rock, which blaziken does not have access too. Blaziken did get a few cool new toys to play with in black/white, but when it comes to overall usefulness infernape's got him beat.

[General Tso]

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

Did this bring a tear to anybody elses eye? :')

Are you crying because you don't want to believe Infernape is outclassed or because that was a ridiculous statement because Infernape is outclassed in almost every way :(

[some hero]

Originally Posted by Fat -Life-

That's actually a really cool set hero, although I would prefer running 244 speed to beat Scarftar.

The speed would differ from person to person.I guess less Special attack might be an option since the things that are weak to fire get ko'ed anyways.Also being faster than ScarfTar means being faster than Starmie.

So with a few more EV's in speed, Blaziken really won't fear Starmie..at all.It can just Batton Pass or just KO with Hi Jump Kick if it took a Stone Edge or a Stabbed attack.

Only Choice Scarf Starmie would scare Blaziken.

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

Did this bring a tear to anybody elses eye? :')

If you're going to use Infernape without being 'outclassed' your best options are probably LeadApe or ScarfApe.

LeadApe's success will depend on how the 'lead metagame' develops but he proved himself to be a reliable lead throughout most of DPPt so I'm sure he'll do just fine in that role.

Although the popularity of the set probably contradicts me, I always thought ScarfApe was one of the best (Scarf) revenge-killers in all of DPPt.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Naive
68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
- Fire Blast / Overheat
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power Ice
- Thunderpunch / U-turn

In the 4th gen, he was a reliable revenge killer to ScarfChomp, DDTyranitar, DDMence, AgilaGross, DDGyarados, NPAzelf, SDWeavile, SDScizor, AgilityEmpoleon and many more.

In the 5th Gen, you can add the likes of Uragamosu, SDTerakion, Ononokusu, Shell-Break Cloyster, Speed Boost Blaziken etc to that list.

Blaziken can't do this. When it comes to revenge-killing, he's too slow on the turn that counts most.

Yes, my second favorite Pokemon finally stopped being the underdog.

Choice Scarf Monkey is viable...But if everything comes true about Ditto, then he will have competition.Though i'll admit that having U-Turn is amazing for a choiced Pokemon.

Also note that Blaziken is in higher demand than the Monkey.An auto baton passer is rare, and only Ninjask can compete.

The Monkey on the other hand has huge amounts of competition.All the new Fighters plus all the other revenge killers.

[Lee]

Are you crying because you don't want to believe Infernape is outclassed or because that was a ridiculous statement because Infernape is outclassed in almost every way :(

I'm crying because I've been a huge Blaziken fan for years and was getting sick of acknowledging that he was trash in comparison to Infernape. But how the tables have turned! :)

Originally Posted by Fat lmitchell0012

Sure, blaziken got speed boost but as stated previously by many others it takes time for blaziken to get set up. Infernape can come in and start tearing up the metagame as soon as he gets in.

A MixApe will only have the edge on MixKen if he comes in on something with over 80 base Spe. If not, MixKen has every advantage in the world (higher Atk, higher SpA, a 130 BP STAB move and the promise of shooting up to almost 400 Speed at the end of the turn).

Originally Posted by Fat lmitchell0012

Also, blaziken lacks the ability to damage ground and water types, which infernape can do very well (grass knot).

Gonna quote myself from the OP of the Blaziken thread:

MixBlaziken

---

Blaziken @ Life Orb
Rash
60 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe

- Fire Blast
- Hi Jump Kick
- Hidden Power Grass / Electric
- Stone Edge

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

Fire Blast + Hidden Power vs 252/0 Slowbro = 96.7% minimum
HJK + HJK vs 252/252+ Vaporeon = 94.4% minimum
Hidden Power Grass vs 252/0 Swampert = 105.94% minimum
HJK + Hidden Power vs 252/252 Def+ Suicune = 78.46% minimum
Fire Blast + -1 Stone Edge vs 252/0 Gyarados = 78.68% minimum

So that's 5 of the toughest bulky waters on the game all getting obliterated on the switch in unboosted.

Here's the parallel calculations, showing how much standard MixApe (259 Atk / 307 SpA) deals to those Water types with his relevant moves.

Fire Blast + Grass Knot vs 252/0 Slowbro = 93.15% minimum
Close Combat + Close Combat vs 252/252+ Vaporeon = 78.02%
Grass Knot vs 252/0 Swampert = 105.94% minimum
Close Combat + Grass Knot vs 252/252+Def Suicune = 82.92% minimum
Fire Blast + Grass Knot vs 252/0 Gyarados = 64.72%

So as you can see, Blaziken deals more damage to Slowbro, Vaporeon and Gyarados, whilst dealing identical damage to Swampert. Infernape deals slightly more to Suicune. So with that in mind, there's no way you can claim Blaziken 'lacks the ability to damage Water types.'

Blaziken also has no means of boosting his special attack, whereas infernape can boost his attack or special attack 2 stages in 1 turn!

Even if Blaziken did learn Nasty Plot, I'm sure he'd just use Swords Dance, Cheer Up or even Claw Sharpen 99 times out of 100 instead so 'meh.'

I used Infernape a whole ton during DPPt and grew to love him but I'd be hard-pressed to argue that he's generally better than Blaziken, now that Speed Boost and 130BP Hi Jump Kick are on the scene.

[probationsmack]

I run an encore ape pretty damn successfully, and it may make me sound like a noob, but its often a cornerstone of my team when it comes to successfully countering things like breloom, calm minders, recovery stallers, etc. Can blaziken do that. NO
...
I'm aware that there are mischevious heart pokemon with encore now. That being said, i think a choice banded mach punch is nothing to scoff at. I mean, iron fist is essentially a technician boost for mach punch right? Doesn't get the BEST coverage, but neither did bullet punch did it?

[Thorhammer]

Originally Posted by Fat probationsmack

That being said, i think a choice banded mach punch is nothing to scoff at. I mean, iron fist is essentially a technician boost for mach punch right? Doesn't get the BEST coverage, but neither did bullet punch did it?

Iron Fist is x1.2, Technician is x1.5.

[Santa_Clauz]

Damn, was planning to Ninja Lee's post and refer to him, but he beat me too it. Anyway, in everything but leading and being a choice user, Blaziken now out classes infernape. Higher attacking stats, higher BP if slightly less reliable fighting STAB move, same fire STABs, and effectively higher speed. Also, now that breeding dream world abilities has been confirmed, he can also use a Baton Pass set. Though for those people who absolutely have to use infernape, yes you can use the elemental punches on it.

You people are also claiming Blaziken needs a turn to set up... What. Are. You. On. Attacking isn't setting up. Speed boost is just a bonus. You bring it in on something slower than you, KO it or scare it out, and bam, you got a speed boost too. Infernape on the other hand, needs to set up to sweep, as it lacks the pure power of Blaziken without Nasty Plot or SD.

[Bombkirby]

Originally Posted by Fat Noble Cactus

I find it odd Gamefreak didn't give 'Nape Limber. I mean, he is a monkey/ape mix after all. It would've given him a little edge over Blaziken too, as both are stopped cold by Paralysis. Then again, this is Gamefreak logic.

Then again they aren't keeping Meta Game in mind when creating this stuff. Limber sounds so random. "Its a monkey! Those are limber!" That is awful logic. I think Hitmonchan looks pretty limber, and Medicham and slew of others, but they didnt get those did they?

[Prownage89]

I think that he shud use Cheer Up instead of Nasty Plot.

Infernape w/ life orb
Naive Nature
252 Speed/ 164 Sp.A/ 94 Att
-Cheer Up
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast
-Thunder Punch/Stone Edge/ HP Ice

Cheer up is for a TRUE wall breaking move since it boosts on atk and sp.a which means that its wall breaking capablities are even stronger. Neither Blissey or Skarm can take it on. further more 252 speed to outrun Gen V's new faster pokemon. Close Combat and Fire Blast for 2 equally destructive STABS and HP Ice (recommended) for the Dragons. Stone Edge is for the Gyarados if you find it a threat.

[Sheaz]

Speed Boost Blaziken is obnoxiously over-hyped, and I fully believe that it will end up being the Electivire/ Weavile of this generation. Don't get me wrong, speed boost is a huge boon to Blaziken, but that doesn't mean it outclasses Infernape. Blaziken doesn't have very much variety in his movesets, and a speed boost doesn't mean much when someone can switch in a scarfer/ aqua jet user fairly easily; this is even more of a problem when taking into account Ken's fragility.

Infernape is great because he forces so many switches, and people don't know if Nape will NP, SD, U-turn, or fire off an extremely high powered STAB on the switch. I won't really argue that Ken is now a better sweeper, but IMO Infernape best sets weren't geared towards all out sweeping.

[Barilzar]

Originally Posted by Fat Sheaz

Speed Boost Blaziken is obnoxiously over-hyped, and I fully believe that it will end up being the Electivire/ Weavile of this generation. Don't get me wrong, speed boost is a huge boon to Blaziken, but that doesn't mean it outclasses Infernape. Blaziken doesn't have very much variety in his movesets, and a speed boost doesn't mean much when someone can switch in a scarfer/ aqua jet user fairly easily; this is even more of a problem when taking into account Ken's fragility.

Infernape is great because he forces so many switches, and people don't know if Nape will NP, SD, U-turn, or fire off an extremely high powered STAB on the switch. I won't really argue that Ken is now a better sweeper, but IMO Infernape best sets weren't geared towards all out sweeping.

I agree, I always enjoyed my Suicide lead ape. Always lots of fun and most people are not prepared for it.

[sensible]

At least infernape still has Grass Knot! Yay!

Nasty Plot Ape is still as gamebreaking as it ever was (or not maybe? lol). Don't forget that Blaziken can't do that. Although it can SD, now that I think about it.

Nevermind; Infernape to BL everyone!