B&W Research Thread

[Naxte]

Originally Posted by Fat Philip7086

I also did more research on multi-hit moves, and it turns out that each hit will activate whatever reactive ability it's facing multiple times. For example, against Breakable Armor, if I hit it 4 times with Arm Thrust, the opposing Pokemon would sit at +4 Spe, -4 Def -- the ability activates each time the Pokemon is hit. From all my tests with multi-hit moves, I think we can draw the conclusion that in this gen, each hit is treated as separate attacks which are contingent on the previous hits successfully making contact. Pretty neat.

Hmm... That's definitely neat and poses an interesting question then:
-Does a Pokemon still take Life Orb damage only once for a multi-hit move, as in Gen IV, or does it now take 10% damage each time it hits the opponent?

[Ditto]

This might not be that important and I think is already assumed by most, but I remember someone asking about it on IRC so I thought I'd post it to be safe.

Justice Heart does not receive a boost when being targeted by non-attacking Dark-type moves such as Taunt.

[Afti]

Encourage: Does it also block the flinch from King's Rock, but subsequently boost damaging attacks without a side effect?

It does NOT. Tested with an Encourage Hihidaruma holding King's Rock using Earthquake.

[The Shadow Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat treex

Dunno if this belongs here but some confirmation about Sturdy.

I was using my Axeface (pure Dragon) with +4 ATK on the Elite Four's Fighting member.
I used Dragon Claw on the blue guy and his Sturdy kicked in. Full Restore and Sturdy activated again. Full Restore and Sturdy activated AGAIN.

So it appears that Sturdy works indefinitely as long as you can recover the Pokemon's HP to a full bar.

Just to be sure, is that a Rivalry Ononokusu? Because I had my Mold Breaker Ono smash through Sturdy unhindered.

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Afti

It does NOT. Tested with an Encourage Hihidaruma holding King's Rock using Earthquake.

So there's no boost. Just to confirm: were you able to get a flinch with Earthquake?

[Afti]

I tested until flinching something, yes.

EDIT: Also, after some preliminary testing, I believe Bark Out has a 100% effect rate, making it like Icy Wind/Frozen World.

[MeroMero]

Directly taken from here http://www.smogon.com/dp/items/choice_scarf (the same goes for Choice Band and Choice Specs)

If the holder of this item uses Sleep Talk, it will select a random move for the first turn, and receive the boost as usual, but all subsequent uses of Sleep Talk or the move chosen by Sleep Talk will fail until the holder switches out.

This is no longer the case. I slapped a Choice Scarf on a sleeping Exploud with Flamethrower, Sleep Talk, Earthquake and Ice Beam (it was for testing purpose), used Sleep Talk twice without switching, Earthquake was selected twice by Sleep Talk and both Earthquakes were successful.

It works as well when different moves are selected by Sleep Talk, for example here Exploud used Choice Scarfed Sleep Talk twice, the first one selected Earthquake and hit the target, the second one selected Flamethrower and also hit the target.
Obviously the 1,5x speed boost still applies.

It also works for Choice Band and Choice Specs, and their respective boost still applies.

[mien]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

If you have Wide Lens and Focus Blast on hand, that should be the next test. If it's actually 1.3x (implying 66% accuracy with Zap Cannon), then it will never miss. If not, it's probably 1.2x.

Tested this against a bunch of wild pokemon

My Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide lens hit 28 out of 30 times with Focus Blast(93.3% hit rate) -> Not a 33% accuracy boost or 1 Stage
Gengar with Victory Star without any item hit 48 of 50 times with Fire Blast(96% hit rate) -> Not a 20% accuracy boost
Aerodactyl with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 48 out of 50 with Stone Edge(96% hit rate) -> Not a 15% accuracy boost
Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 100 of 100 times with Fire Blast (100% hit rate)-> at least 10% accuracy boost

I suppose if my calculations are correct one can conclude the fellowng:
A pokemon with the ability Victory Star and his teammate receive an accuracy boost of 10% on their moves

In other words in single battles this ability is basically Wide Lens, pretty terrible if you ask me.

[MeroMero]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/status#sleep

The implementation for sleep is that sleeping Pokemon have a hidden counter between 2 and 5 (which is always set to 3 for Rest). When the sleeping Pokemon attempts to do anything, the counter is first reduced by 1, and if the number becomes 0, the Pokemon wakes up and takes its normal action. If the counter is not 0, the "fast asleep" message is displayed. Early Bird causes this counter to be reduced by 2 instead of 1, meaning Pokemon sleep for 1 turn under Rest, or 0-2 turns from normal sleep.

In 5th gen Sleep acts like in 4th gen, but with a new characteristic reminiscent of Toxic poison:
_each time a sleeping Pokémon (even if it is self-induced via Rest) switches its "sleep counter" will be reseted to the same value that was chosen by the game when the sleeping move hit the Pokémon (it will reset to 3 if the sleeping move was Rest);

For example:
_Turn 1: Doredia used Sleep Powder against Machamp, Machamp fell asleep, its sleep counter is now 4 (it will sleep during 3 turns);
_Turn 2: Machamp's sleep counter is now 3 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 3: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, its sleep counter will reset to 4;
_Turn 4: Machamp is sent out again;
_Turn 5: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 6: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 7: Machamp's sleep counter is 1 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 8: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, its sleep counter will reset to 4;
_Turn 9: Machamp is sent out again;
_Turn 10: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 11: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 12: Machamp's sleep counter is 1 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 13: Machamp's sleep counter is 0, Machamp awakes and uses whatever move he'll use (for example DynamicPunch)

EDIT: Modified my example a bit because it seems now Pokémon stay asleep 3 turns max (if anyone can confirm or refute here because I'm not sure)

[mien]

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/status#sleep

In 5th gen Sleep acts like in 4th gen, but with a new characteristic reminiscent of Toxic poison:
_each time a sleeping Pokémon (even if it is self-induced via Rest) switches its "sleep counter" will be reseted to the same value that was chosen by the game when the sleeping move hit the Pokémon (it will reset to 3 if the sleeping move was Rest);

For example:
_Turn 1: Doredia used Sleep Powder against Machamp, Machamp fell asleep, its sleep counter is now 5 (it will sleep during 4 turns);
_Turn 2: Machamp's sleep counter is now 4 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 3: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, it's sleep counter will reset to 5;
_Turn 4: Machamp is sent out again;
_Turn 5: Machamp's sleep counter is 4 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 6: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 7: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 8: Machamp switches to another Pokémon, it's sleep counter will reset to 5;
_Turn 9: Machamp is sent out again;
_Turn 10: Machamp's sleep counter is 4 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 11: Machamp's sleep counter is 3 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 12: Machamp's sleep counter is 2 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 13: Machamp's sleep counter is 1 and it's still asleep;
_Turn 14: Machamp's sleep counter is 0, Machamp awakes and uses whatever move he'll use (for example DynamicPunch)

I confirm this,
I've put a Venusaur asleep and switched it out and back in after every 2 sleep turns.
After a total of 20 sleep turns venusaur was still asleep.

This sounds so terribly broken...

[SupremeDirt]

Originally Posted by Fat Mien.

I confirm this,
I've put a Venusaur asleep and switched it out and back in after every 2 sleep turns.
After a total of 20 sleep turns venusaur was still asleep.

This sounds so terribly broken...

This sounds so terribly useful, combined with the new information on Choice items. Choiced sleep absorbers, anyone? Of course, they'd have to be shifted over, Sleep Talk isn't a TM any more.

[Peterko]

Originally Posted by Fat Mien.

Thanks for those calculations, i wouldn't be able to it myself.

I've updated the list of results with those you requested

Snorlax(460kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Giratina-O(750kg): 38-36-36-35-39-38-41-37-39-41 damage
Snorlax(460kg): 36-34-37-38-35-38-35-41-39-38 damage
Torterra(352kg): 40-38-36-36-40 damage
Dragonite(210kg): 60-59-54-53-54 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 81-75-73-76-77 damage
Venusaur(100kg): 91-96-85-101-87-96-88-89-101-96 damage
Flygon(82kg): 105-102-106-109-108-112-106-113-110-104 damage
Togekiss(38kg): 107-104-114-112-106-107-112-110-102-111-102 damage
Altaria(20kg): 102-104-111-110-106-121-107-108-112-118 damage
Mew(4kg): 114-111-104-113-108 damage
Mesprit(0.3kg):115-112-116-114-117-107-108-119-121-108 damage

Emboar(150kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Torterra(352kg): 35-38-37-36-38-38-35-36-38-34 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 35-36-36-41-39-35-38-38-37-38 damage
Mesprit(0.3kg): 111-118-117-112-106-106-114-116-112-108 damage

Hariyama(253.8kg) with 256 attack using Heavy bomber on all these pokemon having exact 216 def

Torterra(352kg): 38-37-36-37-34-37-39-34-38-38 damage
Mewtwo(122kg): 58-54-54-58-57-56-59-52-57-56 damage
Mesprit(0.4kg): 119-116-117-107-108-111-114-107-116-117 damage

snorlax (460kg) heavy bomber: 

vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 120-127
vs mew (4kg) 	 	BP = 120-122
vs altaria (20kg) 	BP = 120 (Mien. got both max dmg 121 and min dmg 102)
vs togekiss (38kg) 	BP = 113-120
vs flygon (82kg) 	BP = 112-120
vs venusaur (100kg) 	BP = 100 (Mien. got both max dmg 101 and min dmg 85)
vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 80-86
vs dragonite (210kg)  	BP = 59-62
vs torterra(352kg)    	BP = 40-42
vs snorlax (460kg) 	BP = 40 (Mien. got both max dmg 41 and min dmg 34)
vs giratina-o (750kg) 	BP = 40-41

hariyama (253.8kg) heavy bomber: 
vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 118-126
vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 58-61
vs torterra (352kg) 	BP = 37-40

emboar (150kg) heavy bomber: 
vs mesprit (0.3kg) 	BP = 117-124
vs mewtwo (122kg) 	BP = 40-41
vs torterra (352kg) 	BP = 37-41

OK, according to the above results:
1. heavy bomber´s lowest base power is definitely 40
2. heavy bomber´s highest base power seems to be 120 (try to get that 102 or 104 damage against mesprit with snorlax)
3. heavy bomber has 5 base powers, namely 40, 60, 80, 100 & 120
4. the formula doesn´t depend solely on the target´s weight (doesn´t work as a reverse GK/LK)

don´t shoot me Mien. :)

next tests (just a few hits, 2-3 will be enough against each, maybe even just one hit against each)

snorlax heavy bomber

vs camerupt (220kg, 1/2 damage)
vs gyarados (235kg, 1/2 damage)
vs hariyama (253.8 kg)
vs rhyperior (282.8kg, lightningrod, 2x damage)
vs hippowdon (300kg)

<- to find where the BP jumps from 40 to 60

vs machamp (130kg)
vs lickilicky (140kg)
vs kingdra (152kg, half damage)
vs milotic (162kg, half damage)
vs regice (175kg, double damage)
vs suicune (187kg, half damage)
vs tyranitar (202kg, double damage)

<- to find where the BP jumps from 60-80

vs salamence (102.6kg)
vs dusknoir (106.6kg)
vs spiritomb (108kg)
vs shelgon (110.5kg) if possible
vs rhyhorn (115kg, 2x dmg) if possible
vs scizor (118kg, 1/2 dmg)
vs exeggutor (120kg)

<- to find where the BP jumps from 80 to 100

vs exploud (84kg)
vs tauros (88.4kg)
vs charizard (90.5kg, 1/2 damage)
vs garchomp (95kg)

<- to find where the BP jumps from 100 to 120

they don´t have to have 216 defense (less is OK, more is not) for a damage calc., just able to survive the hit...if you start with the lightest (test in the order I wrote them, start with garchomp...or with camerupt, doesn´t matter) and
see a jump in damage, you don´t have to test heavy bomber on the following pokémon in that group, skip them and start with the first pokémon in the next group

example: the damage jumps between shelgon and spiritomb, skip dusknoir and sala and continue with tyranitar

good luck

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Modified my example a bit because it seems now Pokémon stay asleep 3 turns max (if anyone can confirm or refute here because I'm not sure)

This is interesting news on sleep. What I'd like to know now is the distribution of the initial seep counter.

For instance, it used to be:
2 turns - 25%
3 turns - 25%
4 turns - 25%
5 turns - 25%

What is it now? Can the sleep counter now start at 1 (aka the Pokemon wakes up immediately? Do all counts still have equal probability or are some more likely than others?

EDIT: If somebody does test this, please always use the same sleep-inducing move. It's possible, however unlikely, that different sleep-inducing moves now last for differing numbers of turns.

[Joel]

Just curious if anybody has tried to couple Sing-a-Round with Technician.

I was looking through the new movedex, and seen Persian gets Sing-a-Round via TM. It's a Normal type SpAtk with a BP of 60, but if used in succession, it gains power.

If Sing-a-Round gets a boost from itself, will it still get a Technician boost on the second useage (or third useage)?

If it does still get the Technician boost, with Nasty Plot, as well as the Sing-a-Round boosts, this could be big news for Persian in NU.

[MetalKid]

Looks like there is some sort of new experience equation. The higher level a Pokemon is, the less experience they get from fighting the same Pokemon of a given level. Has anyone looked into this yet?

[MeroMero]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

This is interesting news on sleep. What I'd like to know now is the distribution of the initial seep counter.

For instance, it used to be:
2 turns - 25%
3 turns - 25%
4 turns - 25%
5 turns - 25%

What is it now? Can the sleep counter now start at 1 (aka the Pokemon wakes up immediately? Do all counts still have equal probability or are some more likely than others?

What I can recall is that my Exploud never woke up immediately after being put to sleep by Churine aka Pokémon always sleep at least 1 turn.

In fact it just also refused to sleep 4 turns so far, it caped at 3 turns max but I could've been "unlucky" here, though right now it seems that the sleep counter can now choose a number between 2 and 4 (1 to 3 turns of sleep).

The sad thing is that when I done the tests I didn't thought at taking notes about the probability of each event, but I remember that Exploud was less likely to sleep only 1 turn, being asleep 2 or 3 turns seems to have higher (and equal) probability however.

I'll record the percentages later though, because right now I'm tired lol.

[jumpluff*]

Philip7086 and I tested this together and here is what we worked out, using multiple Pokémon to test.

Here is what happens when you attack a mon holding Rough Helmet with the ability Iron Barb:

- Attack does damage to the holder
- Iron Barb kicks in and does 1/8 damage rounded down
- Rough Helmet kicks in and does 1/6 damage rounded down (for example, my terrier has 100 HP, and it took 16 damage; 1/6 of 100 is 16.6666667)

Rough Helmet and Iron Barb work even if the attack KOes the holder.

The damage values are fixed whether you use them in conjunction or not. Rough Helmet still did 1/6 even without Iron Barb.

[Deck Knight]

Could anyone test if Reckless is actually 200% recoil, 200% damage this Gen rather than its old ability decription, which was just a 20% boost on recoil moves? It's not listed as an updated Ability effect, yet it still has the same description on their abilitydex.

[Philip7086]

Originally Posted by Fat OmegaDonut

Tentative (Moves in black are untested) Snatch steals NOT Conversion, Wish, Recycle, Imprison, Healing Wish, Power Trick, Lucky Chant, Aqua Ring, Magnet Rise, and Lunar Dance (note: does not KO the Snatcher, just prevents Lunar Dance's execution) (Philip7086, jumpluff)

I also reported that Recycle was successfully stolen in my previous post.

Anyways, we (jumpluff and I) went and tested Power Trick and it was successfully stolen, and then re-tested Lunar Dance. So the first time we tested Lunar Dance, the Snatch Pokemon was able to prevent its opponent from executing it, but didn't die itself. I later realized that it might have been because the Snatch Pokemon was the only one in my party. This time when we tested it, it worked. This leads to two discoveries:

1. Snatch does indeed steal Lunar Dance
2. Lunar Dance will fail if the Pokemon using it is the last surviving Pokemon in your party.

We will test Aqua Ring and Healing Wish (I also want to re-test Conversion, because there might have been a translation mishap the first time) soon.

[mien]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

This is interesting news on sleep. What I'd like to know now is the distribution of the initial seep counter.

For instance, it used to be:
2 turns - 25%
3 turns - 25%
4 turns - 25%
5 turns - 25%

What is it now? Can the sleep counter now start at 1 (aka the Pokemon wakes up immediately? Do all counts still have equal probability or are some more likely than others?

EDIT: If somebody does test this, please always use the same sleep-inducing move. It's possible, however unlikely, that different sleep-inducing moves now last for differing numbers of turns.

Tested this 20 times by using Hypnosis with the fellowing results(refering to the turn Venusaur woke up):

1 turns: 0 (immediate wake up)
2 turns: 8
3 turns: 2
4 turns: 10
5 turns: 0

It seems that sleep indeed only lasts 3 turns anymore. Quite interesting is the fact that 2-turn sleeps only happened twice, though it's possible this is just coincidence.

[CPU]

Originally Posted by Fat jumpluff

Philip7086 and I tested this together and here is what we worked out, using multiple Pokémon to test.

Here is what happens when you attack a mon holding Rough Helmet with the ability Iron Barb:

- Attack does damage to the holder
- Iron Barb kicks in and does 1/8 damage rounded down
- Rough Helmet kicks in and does 1/6 damage rounded down (for example, my terrier has 100 HP, and it took 16 damage; 1/6 of 100 is 16.6666667)

Rough Helmet and Iron Barb work even if the attack KOes the holder.

The damage values are fixed whether you use them in conjunction or not. Rough Helmet still did 1/6 even without Iron Barb.

Thanks for retesting Rough Helmet; I found it odd that it took 7 hits to KO. Since damage in Pokémon is always rounded down, low HP couldn't be an explanation as to why something that supposedly dealt 1/8 health only took 7 hits to KO.

The Item's pretty scary, particularly in conjunction with Iron Barbs/Rough Skin. Dealing 7/24 from a contact move is no joke.

[Philip7086]

Originally Posted by Fat jumpluff

Philip7086 and I tested this together and here is what we worked out, using multiple Pokémon to test.

Here is what happens when you attack a mon holding Rough Helmet with the ability Iron Barb:

- Attack does damage to the holder
- Iron Barb kicks in and does 1/8 damage rounded down
- Rough Helmet kicks in and does 1/6 damage rounded down (for example, my terrier has 100 HP, and it took 16 damage; 1/6 of 100 is 16.6666667)

Rough Helmet and Iron Barb work even if the attack KOes the holder.

The damage values are fixed whether you use them in conjunction or not. Rough Helmet still did 1/6 even without Iron Barb.

I wanted to add that we tested this against more than one Pokemon, and the ratios were always the same (1/8 for Iron Barb, 1/6 for Rough Helmet).

[deluge]

If a pokemon behind a substitute attacks a Pokemon with RoughSkin/Rugged Helm using a contact move does the sub take damage or the attacker?

If it's the case that the sub does not take damage and the attacker takes enough damage to faint while the sub is still in tact is the sub passed on the next Pokemon or does it disintegrate?

I have my own suspicions of what will happen but can anyone confirm?

[thelaytonmobile]

What kind of items does Embargo prevent from activating, all items or just single use ones?
Specifically, would a Pokemon with Shed Skin be able to switch?

[Payton64]

how much extra damage does the ghost move "evil eye" do when the opponent has a status ailment?