Victini - Page 3

HollowHead · Sep 25th, 2010, 9:12:11 PM

The problem is that, as a sweeper, it doesn't have high offensive stats, at least for this generation. =/ Name a popular sweeper from gen 4 that had stats at 100 or lower, that's also not bulky and has a x2 weakness to SR.

Thorhammer · Sep 25th, 2010, 9:20:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat HollowHead

The problem is that, as a sweeper, it doesn't have high offensive stats, at least for this generation. =/ Name a popular sweeper from gen 4 that had stats at 100 or lower, that's also not bulky and has a x2 weakness to SR.

100/100/100 defenses are plenty bulky.

Zennoth · Sep 25th, 2010, 9:41:52 PM

Umm, I've used a LO Shaymin to great effect for sweeping. And Victini has a lot more firepower to work with...so yeah.

Max Fightmaster · Sep 25th, 2010, 9:55:15 PM

Quick question about Victory Star, when it says it boost's the accuracy of it's teammates moves does that mean teammates for Double or Triple battles, or do other pokemon get a boost? (For example if Victini is on a team with Starmie and Starmie is currently out while Victini isn't, would Starmie still get an accuracy boost on moves like Thunder?)

Sphyxius · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat HollowHead

The problem is that, as a sweeper, it doesn't have high offensive stats, at least for this generation. =/ Name a popular sweeper from gen 4 that had stats at 100 or lower, that's also not bulky and has a x2 weakness to SR.

Minus the SR weakness, Flygon says hi. And Victini is bulky. I dunno where people got it into their heads that 100/100/100 defenses are not bulky. Thats more or less on par with pokemon like Heatran and Dusknoir and much better than pokemon that are considered bulky by UU standards (like Altaria)

Murkglow · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Max Fightmaster

Quick question about Victory Star, when it says it boost's the accuracy of it's teammates moves does that mean teammates for Double or Triple battles, or do other pokemon get a boost? (For example if Victini is on a team with Starmie and Starmie is currently out while Victini isn't, would Starmie still get an accuracy boost on moves like Thunder?)

It means Doubles and Triples battles.

Ulysses · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:10:21 PM

I'm thinking a set like this could work with Victory Star:

Victini@Life Orb
Hasty
Victory Star
100 ATK / 156 SATK / 252 SPE
-Fire Blast
-Flare Blitz
-Zen Headbutt/Focus Blast
-Thunder

Farukon_o_miru · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:21:43 PM

Victory star is a great ability with the appropiate moves, attacks like Thunder, Focus Blast and Fire Blast can be demolishers (especially the last) even coming from an acceptable (but not remarkable) 328 in special attack, if the accuracy increase is enough, it even can use Purgatory in some sets.

PS. Victini can´t learn V-Generate?

Naxte · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:25:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Farukon_o_miru

PS. Victini can´t learn V-Generate?

Not yet, or so it appears. It'll probably get it as a special event move in the third game or something like that, but for now, it seems no Pokemon, Victini included, can learn it.

Kizzy · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:50:26 PM

What about a Mix Victini set?

Mixtini
Leftovers
Naive (+ Spe - spD)
252 spA/82 Atk/176 spe

Cheer Up
Fire Blast
Thunder
Brick Break

176 speed Evs Outspeeds base 100s. With the attack stats distribution Victini has somewhat equal power, and Cheer up will boost both of them in one go.

Murkglow · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:51:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Farukon_o_miru

if the accuracy increase is enough

From testing it's pretty much confirmed to be less then 15% (I would assume 10%).

Lucalibur · Sep 25th, 2010, 10:57:13 PM

10%? there goes my support victini ideas for doubles...well, still work with fire blast i suppose.

Farukon_o_miru · Sep 25th, 2010, 11:45:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Murkglow

From testing it's pretty much confirmed to be less then 15% (I would assume 10%).

Assuming an accuracy increase of 10%, Purgatory in Victini is going to be a 55% move, Thunder and Focus Blast 77%, Will-o-wisp 83%, Fire Blast 94%, Toxic, Overheat, Zen Headbutt and Charge Beam of 99%, but if the accuracy increase is of 15%, Purgatory have 58% acc., Thunder and Focus Blast 81%, Will-o-wisp 86%, Fire Blast 98%, and Toxic, Overheat, Zen Headbutt and Charge Beam 100% (really 104%), i hope it will have 15% of increase, because 10% isn´t really great.

Murkglow · Sep 25th, 2010, 11:52:26 PM

Oh if it's done like that then I'm unsure. Here is the report:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mien.

My Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide lens hit 28 out of 30 times with Focus Blast(93.3% hit rate) -> Not a 33% accuracy boost or 1 Stage
Gengar with Victory Star without any item hit 48 of 50 times with Fire Blast(96% hit rate) -> Not a 20% accuracy boost
Aerodactyl with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 48 out of 50 with Stone Edge(96% hit rate) -> Not a 15% accuracy boost
Gengar with Victory Star holding Wide Lens hit 100 of 100 times with Fire Blast (100% hit rate)-> at least 10% accuracy boost

I'm unsure about the conclusions if it's a multiplier rather then a flat boost.

Shimrit As · Sep 26th, 2010, 2:05:22 AM

If I'm not wrong, Thunder's accuracy is 50% in the sun. Soooo using it alongside Ninetails as the OP suggested isn't that spectacular an idea :x but Victini is a good Pokemon; offensively it has good 100/100 stats and enough coverage moves to work and defensively it can help against Infernape, Birijion etc.

Xing · Sep 26th, 2010, 2:32:24 AM

This thing will wreck once it gets V-Generate. A Banded V-Generate (over 600 in BP) in the sun with decimate everything without Flash Fire.

Minjo Master · Sep 26th, 2010, 4:15:56 AM

I'm rather disappointed in the low accuracy increase. Even 81% is a little low for my tastes, I prefer to get closer to 90, around there you're able to legitimately bitch about it if it misses.

Rayquaza_ · Sep 26th, 2010, 4:58:35 AM

V-Generate is just asking for Aqua Jet Kabutops or just about any pokemon with that move to come in and OHKO Victini, really.
The new 100 BP, 100% accuracy Fire move seems much more reliable.

Arktos · Sep 26th, 2010, 5:15:29 AM

I really see some potential here - it has access to awesome moves, especially V-Generate... But yet another Pokemon that, without Substitute or any priority move, will be eliminated by my favourite Pokemon - Dugtrio :D I believe the metagame will look completely different from all those predictions now. People don't seem to realize that a whole bunch of threatening new and old pokemon could really boost some completely ignored pokemon of the former generation (especially those who once were considered as OU), since some are capable of stalling / countering the new threats almost perfectly.

Thorhammer · Sep 26th, 2010, 5:36:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Murkglow

I'm unsure about the conclusions if it's a multiplier rather then a flat boost.

Those calculations were assuming a modifier. All boosts are modifiers, including accuracy.

HollowHead · Sep 26th, 2010, 10:38:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sphyxius

Minus the SR weakness, Flygon says hi. And Victini is bulky. I dunno where people got it into their heads that 100/100/100 defenses are not bulky. Thats more or less on par with pokemon like Heatran and Dusknoir and much better than pokemon that are considered bulky by UU standards (like Altaria)

Flygon also has immunity to all forms of spikes, an immunity to ground, and only two weaknesses. Heatran has an immunity to toxic spikes, two immunities, TEN resistances, and only three weaknesses.

As for Dusknoir, again, he's meant to be a wall.

The point is, as great as 100/100/100 defenses are, stat-wise, it doesn't mean much if typing's not perfect. Look at Regice.

I will admit though, you did get me on Shaymin, although, arguably, Seed flare is a better offensive move then Fire Blast/Blaze Judgement.

Corrupted · Sep 26th, 2010, 11:04:29 AM

Rash, 48 Atk/208 Spe/252 SpAtk
V-Generate
Fire Blast
Grass Knot/Wild Bolt
Focus Blast/U-Turn

Murders stuff

Epichammerbro · Sep 30th, 2010, 9:38:13 PM

For a base 100 across the board pokemon, it's pretty good. The accuracy boost, although it may be small, could be a real game-changer. I'm probably gonna run a set of psycho shock, fire blast, thunder/focus blast, and substitute.

porky · Sep 30th, 2010, 9:45:56 PM

Would having two status moves on victini be beneficial?

100% accurate toxic, and accurate will-o-wisp, and throw an accurate thunder wave in the mix, 2 of these together might be viable.

Toxic anything immune to will-o-wisp, along with any special attackers or stallers. Thunder wave fast sweepers, or anything in general.

Kind of sounds like a waste of two moveslots, but possibly usable.

Screw-On Head · Sep 30th, 2010, 10:17:42 PM

Starmie only has 100 special attack stat and can be a very effective sweeper. Manaphy has 100 sweeping stats and was considered too powerful for standard. Celebi has 100 stats and could run effective offensive and/or defensive sets despite having a whopping 7 weaknesses and one of those a 4x weakness to U-turn. Jirachi Can also run effective Sweeping or tanky sets with base 100 stats. Venusaur only has 82/100/80 offensive stats and was one of the top UU sweepers and even saw a little OU play; it also only has 80/83/100 defenses and is considered to have decent bulk. Kindra has only 95/95/85 offensive stats and could be one of the most scary sweepers in the metagame. Just a few examples.

Also, what is with people saying things that are bulkier than Swampert "aren't very bulky" this generation. Considering 75/75/75 defenses are "average" to "acceptable" 100/100/100 is very bulky. I remember when D/P came out everyone said Heatran would be trash because 4x Ground weakness and Fighting weakness and Water weakness. Just silly.

Sep 25th, 2010, 9:41:52 PM	#53
Zennoth Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 9	Umm, I've used a LO Shaymin to great effect for sweeping. And Victini has a lot more firepower to work with...so yeah. __________________ Friend Code:2922 0095 8932

Sep 25th, 2010, 10:10:21 PM	#57
Ulysses Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 375 Antiquity	I'm thinking a set like this could work with Victory Star: Victini@Life Orb Hasty Victory Star 100 ATK / 156 SATK / 252 SPE -Fire Blast -Flare Blitz -Zen Headbutt/Focus Blast -Thunder __________________ Ladder peaks: Smogon Little Cup (4th generation, Shoddy): #1

Sep 25th, 2010, 10:21:43 PM	#58
Farukon_o_miru Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 76	Victory star is a great ability with the appropiate moves, attacks like Thunder, Focus Blast and Fire Blast can be demolishers (especially the last) even coming from an acceptable (but not remarkable) 328 in special attack, if the accuracy increase is enough, it even can use Purgatory in some sets. PS. Victini can´t learn V-Generate? __________________ English isn't my first language, but I make the effort to write it well. Please excuse my gramatical errors.

Sep 25th, 2010, 10:50:26 PM	#60
Kizzy Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 30	What about a Mix Victini set? Mixtini Leftovers Naive (+ Spe - spD) 252 spA/82 Atk/176 spe Cheer Up Fire Blast Thunder Brick Break 176 speed Evs Outspeeds base 100s. With the attack stats distribution Victini has somewhat equal power, and Cheer up will boost both of them in one go. Last edited by Kizzy; Sep 25th, 2010 at 11:06:05 PM.

Sep 25th, 2010, 10:57:13 PM	#62
Lucalibur Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,091 WARE WA KURENAI NO WYVERN!	10%? there goes my support victini ideas for doubles...well, still work with fire blast i suppose. __________________ EmissaryofDarkness: is u only won beacuse u u use some strange ass tar EmissaryofDarkness: u do realize i am one of the best players on here EmissaryofDarkness: ur a terrible player luke EmissaryofDarkness: any one can win with the element of suprise

Sep 25th, 2010, 9:12:11 PM	#51
HollowHead Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 21	The problem is that, as a sweeper, it doesn't have high offensive stats, at least for this generation. =/ Name a popular sweeper from gen 4 that had stats at 100 or lower, that's also not bulky and has a x2 weakness to SR.

Sep 26th, 2010, 2:05:22 AM	#65
Shimrit As Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 270 Singapore	If I'm not wrong, Thunder's accuracy is 50% in the sun. Soooo using it alongside Ninetails as the OP suggested isn't that spectacular an idea :x but Victini is a good Pokemon; offensively it has good 100/100 stats and enough coverage moves to work and defensively it can help against Infernape, Birijion etc. __________________ ...

Sep 26th, 2010, 2:32:24 AM	#66
Xing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 125	This thing will wreck once it gets V-Generate. A Banded V-Generate (over 600 in BP) in the sun with decimate everything without Flash Fire.

Sep 26th, 2010, 4:15:56 AM	#67
Minjo Master Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 25 A Wonderful Place	I'm rather disappointed in the low accuracy increase. Even 81% is a little low for my tastes, I prefer to get closer to 90, around there you're able to legitimately bitch about it if it misses. __________________ Greetings, fellow humans! It's a good day to be a human, isn't it? What's that? Zoroark? Never heard of him. What say you and I engage in some human activities together, such as browsing Facebook, consuming large quantities of junk food, Nasty Plot, and... Oh, wait, scratch that last one.

Sep 26th, 2010, 4:58:35 AM	#68
Rayquaza_ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 694	V-Generate is just asking for Aqua Jet Kabutops or just about any pokemon with that move to come in and OHKO Victini, really. The new 100 BP, 100% accuracy Fire move seems much more reliable.

Sep 26th, 2010, 5:15:29 AM	#69
Arktos Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9	I really see some potential here - it has access to awesome moves, especially V-Generate... But yet another Pokemon that, without Substitute or any priority move, will be eliminated by my favourite Pokemon - Dugtrio :D I believe the metagame will look completely different from all those predictions now. People don't seem to realize that a whole bunch of threatening new and old pokemon could really boost some completely ignored pokemon of the former generation (especially those who once were considered as OU), since some are capable of stalling / countering the new threats almost perfectly.

Sep 26th, 2010, 11:04:29 AM	#72
Corrupted Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 248	Rash, 48 Atk/208 Spe/252 SpAtk V-Generate Fire Blast Grass Knot/Wild Bolt Focus Blast/U-Turn Murders stuff

Sep 30th, 2010, 9:38:13 PM	#73
Epichammerbro Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 16 I'm too stealthy to stay in one place for more than an hour	For a base 100 across the board pokemon, it's pretty good. The accuracy boost, although it may be small, could be a real game-changer. I'm probably gonna run a set of psycho shock, fire blast, thunder/focus blast, and substitute. __________________ WE ARE QUEER AND WE ARE HERE!!!

Sep 30th, 2010, 9:45:56 PM	#74
porky Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,523 Lut Gholein	Would having two status moves on victini be beneficial? 100% accurate toxic, and accurate will-o-wisp, and throw an accurate thunder wave in the mix, 2 of these together might be viable. Toxic anything immune to will-o-wisp, along with any special attackers or stallers. Thunder wave fast sweepers, or anything in general. Kind of sounds like a waste of two moveslots, but possibly usable. __________________ try and be a cynic for once.

Sep 30th, 2010, 10:17:42 PM	#75
Screw-On Head Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 92	Starmie only has 100 special attack stat and can be a very effective sweeper. Manaphy has 100 sweeping stats and was considered too powerful for standard. Celebi has 100 stats and could run effective offensive and/or defensive sets despite having a whopping 7 weaknesses and one of those a 4x weakness to U-turn. Jirachi Can also run effective Sweeping or tanky sets with base 100 stats. Venusaur only has 82/100/80 offensive stats and was one of the top UU sweepers and even saw a little OU play; it also only has 80/83/100 defenses and is considered to have decent bulk. Kindra has only 95/95/85 offensive stats and could be one of the most scary sweepers in the metagame. Just a few examples. Also, what is with people saying things that are bulkier than Swampert "aren't very bulky" this generation. Considering 75/75/75 defenses are "average" to "acceptable" 100/100/100 is very bulky. I remember when D/P came out everyone said Heatran would be trash because 4x Ground weakness and Fighting weakness and Water weakness. Just silly.