B&W Research Thread

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Hipmonlee

Could you test HJK missing against a lvl100 crobat or something. Since HJK would have done a great deal of damage to all of those pokemon, it makes some sense that the recoil would be high.

Have a nice day.

A very likely possibility. In fact, it may just be that HJK's recoil is capped at 50% of the max HP.

Originally Posted by Fat 0mastar

If someone actually has managed to get an Eccentric Ditto with a special ability flag and tried it, sorry for bringing it into question. It just doesn't make sense that Ditto can't pass something down while playing the female, when it can pass down IVs and Natures like others.

Yeah, it was Kaphotics who found the Dream World ability flag, and shared his results via PM. This is what he had to say:

Originally Posted by Fat Kaphotics

In the thread I didn't see the female having it and male not at the time of PM.

Female Smugleaf (DW) + Regular Male Chickorita = 50% DW Smugleaf

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It passed it down (Male Chickorita unflagged, Female Smugleaf Flagged), still ~~50% (just confirming again lol. I did have Sweet Scent on Chikorita, and it did give it to Smugleaf as an egg move!)

Ditto Tests:
Female Smugleaf (DW) + Regular Ditto = No DW offspring.
also
Male Smugleaf + Edited DW Ditto = No DW offspring

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I did edit a ditto the same way to make it dream world eccentric so that it would pass down dream world abilities if possible, but I didn't get any dream world offspring after 10 eggs.

That leaves it as:
Female Species (flagged + DW ability) + Any In Egg Group (doesn't need DW ability/flag) [Not Ditto] = 50% Dream World Ability of Female Species.

The flag for having a Dream World Ability is @ 42h being 01 instead of 00.

For some nonrelated - RNG things:

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I saw that the place (you mentioned in RNG Research) and 1 word before (Kazo's PRNG Start location) advance at a near constant rate with the CGear enabled, even if the overworld is paused (viewing pokemon, pokedex, etc0. When saving it changed once.

[Colonel M]

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Jump Kick and Hi Jump Kick crash damage now deal 1/2 of the user's max HP rounded down, regardless of:
_the user's Attack stat and level;
_the foe's Defense stat, level, weaknesses, resistances and immunities.

For Hi Jump Kick:
Test 1: lv.100 Sceptile used Protect, lv.100 Blaziken used Hi Jump Kick, missed and took away 150 of its 301 HP.

Test 2: lv.100 Blaziken used Hi Jump Kick vs a wild lv.4 Minezumi, it missed and took away 150 of its 301 HP.

For Jump Kick:
lv.100 Stantler used Jump Kick against a wild lv.26 Hitomoshi, naturally it missed and took away 141 of its 283 HP.

Could you test further on this? For example, what happens if you miss a second time? Would you be KOed or would you only take 25% instead of 50%? The only reason I ask is because it seems like you only used HJK once.

[Stellar]

The Jump Kick tests really need to be retested. In the past they have always done damage to the user equal to half of the damage that would have been dealt. This recoil capped at 50% of the users HP. It seems to be working in the same way. You need to test it against an opponent where you won't be doing such obscene damage (as Hipmonlee mentioned, a level 100 Crobat).

[the_artic_one]

If Kaphotics only did 10 eggs with an eccentric ditto, I wouldn't call that conclusive. Anyone who's bred pokemon with two abilities knows that going 10 eggs in a row with the same ability really isn't that uncommon. I'd imagine he's correct though because otherwise we'd get all DW abilities as soon as they release ditto. It still probably warrants retesting though.

[Team Rocket Elite]

Lv54 Ononokusu - 110 Def
Lv41 Kojofu - 81 Atk, 90HP

Wild Double Battle against Mamepato and Dokkoraa

Kojofu starts at 80 out of 90 HP.

Turn 1
Ononokusu uses Dig and goes underground.
Kojofu uses Jump Kick targeting Ononokusu and crashes.

Kojofu takes 45 damage from crashing. That's half of maximum HP not current.

Turn 3 of the same battle.
Ononokusu uses Dragon Dance
Kojofu uses Jump Kick. Hits. 37 damage done.

This is the only test I did. Also this was Jump Kick not Hi Jump Kick. It seems to knock off half your max HP even if you don't do much damage.

[MB Espeon]

Hm... just thought of something. I know Gale/Wind Storm hit 32 times out of 32 in that test, but I'm curious. Is it 100%... or is its accuracy like Swift's? Like Thunder in rain/Blizzard in hail.

[megamonk4]

Originally Posted by Fat Master Espeon

Hm... just thought of something. I know Gale/Wind Storm hit 32 times out of 32 in that test, but I'm curious. Is it 100%... or is its accuracy like Swift's? Like Thunder in rain/Blizzard in hail.

Its another move to abuse while under the effects of rain. It's 70% when there's no weather, and sunny day decreases the accuracy like Thunder.

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat megamonk4

Its another move to abuse while under the effects of rain. It's 70% when there's no weather, and sunny day decreases the accuracy like Thunder.

No, they're asking if Gale always hits in Rain or if it just has 30 more accuracy. For example, if the opponent used Double Team while Rain was up, would Gale still always hit or would it have the same chance of hitting as something like Thunderbolt (75%)?

Edit: Also, Gale keeps the 70% Accuracy in all other weather conditions, including Sun.

[megamonk4]

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

No, they're asking if Gale always hits in Rain or if it just has 30 more accuracy. For example, if the opponent used Double Team while Rain was up, would Gale still always hit or would it have the same chance of hitting as something like Thunderbolt (75%)?

Edit: Also, Gale keeps the 70% Accuracy in all other weather conditions, including Sun.

Hmm...Bulbapedia says that it decreases under the sun, xD. Not saying that you're wrong.

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat megamonk4

Hmm...Bulbapedia says that it decreases under the sun, xD. Not saying that you're wrong.

Well I just went with the OP, which says it stays as 70%. I'm not sure how many trials they did in the test, but the percentage of hits was right around 70%.

[megamonk4]

Here's the link to Bulbpedia's Page about it, just in case someone wanted to see.

Windstorm

[MINSC]

I tested move 'Trickery'



English : Trickery
Japanese : イカサマ
Korean : 속임수

Base Power : 95 (Strongest Dark type physical move)
Accuracy : 100
PP : 15



[Pokemon for test]

1. Zoroark - Lv.50 - Attack 103
2. Registeel - Lv. 85 - Attack 120 / Defense 282
3. Armaldo - Lv. 83 - Attack 306 / Defense 200


[How test]

1. Calculate expectation Value of damage when Zoroark use 'Dark type Base power 95 physical move' to Registeel or Armaldo.
2. In a Triple battle, Zoroark use Trickery to Registeel, and check damage. and Zoroark use Trickery to Armaldo, too.



[Result]

1. Expectation Value of damage when Zoroark use 'Dark type Base power 95 physical move' to Registeel or Armaldo

to Registeel - 10 ~ 12
to Armaldo - 28 ~ 34


2. Experimental Value

to Registeel - 12 ~ 14
to Armaldo - 82 ~ 97 (!!)




[Conclusion]

Trickery use opponent's attack and opponent's defense to calculate damage. So, User's attack is not influence in Trickery's damage.

[Jayceja]

would that take boosts and items into account as well?, my guess would be yes

if so thats yet another check on people setting up in addition to ditto

[RotatingAtom]

Hi, I read on bulbapedia yesterday that Frozen World lowers the targets Speed by 1 stage; I'm assuming that's a mistake, right?

[mien]

Could you test HJK missing against a lvl100 crobat or something. Since HJK would have done a great deal of damage to all of those pokemon, it makes some sense that the recoil would be high.

I have tested both Jump Kick and High Jump Kick against a max defensive lvl 100 Crobat(who used protect) and the results of a miss are the same:
Hitmonlee lost 50% of it's max HP

I suppose this confirms Meromero's theory.

[SupremeDirt]

We hadn't tested trickery yet? Huh.

Also, Lugia in a battle I just recently had seemed to have taken damage from Spikes. Stealth Rock wasn't up. I'll record it so other people can see it later. Also, Free Fall fails against a Substitute.

[Sol64]

Originally Posted by Fat Slipperjeans

Tested Encourage.
Its boost is 1,3x (average of 100 dmg will now be average of 130 dmg)

I recorded a test using Flare Blitz (which is boosted, BTW). With the damages in this video it doesn't become clear whether the boost is of 1,2x or of 1,3x, but after I recorded it I did some more damages and they definitely put it into 1,3x range.

All-Max Hihidaruma Flare Blitz
vs All-Max Hihidarma
117-139

If boost is 1,2x:
140-165

If boost is 1,3x:
152-179

If boost is 1,4x:
164-193

Damages with boost:
161, 164 (video), 172, 169


Video is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4OZiOpW0dM
(it's still processing as of now)



Also, on further testing, both of these Hihidarumas did the same damage to each other when using Strength. So, only moves that have secondary effects are boosted.

Question: Wargle with encourage using brave bird, Does encourage boost that? Or must there be a secondary effect such as burn or paralysis rather than pure recoil?

[Elliot Gale]

On the topic of free fall - descriptions of it have been pretty vague. It's supposed to keep a picked up Pokémon from attacking, but... when exactly?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd assume it means during the turn it would attempt to attack and is picked up. This means that if it were faster on the second turn, it wouldn't be able to attack, but if it were slower, it would. Vice versa on the first turn so it wouldn't be possible to be locked out of both.

[Colonel M]

Originally Posted by Fat Sol64

Question: Wargle with encourage using brave bird, Does encourage boost that? Or must there be a secondary effect such as burn or paralysis rather than pure recoil?

Flare Blitz has a 10% chance of burn behind it, so Brave Bird would not receive an Encourage boost since it does not have an X% chance to flinch / burn / etc. High Critical Hit ratio moves don't count either from what I know.

[reaverz]

Thinking about the nerfed Explosion and the utter impotency of the move on Electrode made me think of something out of the blue. Can someone do a check to see if the ability Aftermath boosts the power of Selfdestruct and Explosion? The easiest way to check this is with a Drifblim or Skuntank.

[Sol64]

Originally Posted by Fat Colonel M

Flare Blitz has a 10% chance of burn behind it, so Brave Bird would not receive an Encourage boost since it does not have an X% chance to flinch / burn / etc. High Critical Hit ratio moves don't count either from what I know.

Ah ok, thanks.

Originally Posted by Fat reaverz

Thinking about the nerfed Explosion and the utter impotency of the move on Electrode made me think of something out of the blue. Can someone do a check to see if the ability Aftermath boosts the power of Selfdestruct and Explosion? The easiest way to check this is with a Drifblim or Skuntank.

It probably doesn't but it is a good theory to test out. In the hopes that explosion isn't truly nerfed I'd say we can give this a shot?

[Wilyweavile]

Originally Posted by Fat reaverz

Thinking about the nerfed Explosion and the utter impotency of the move on Electrode made me think of something out of the blue. Can someone do a check to see if the ability Aftermath boosts the power of Selfdestruct and Explosion? The easiest way to check this is with a Drifblim or Skuntank.

Doesn't aftermath only hit if the pokemon was ko'ed by an opponent making physical contact? So it probably won't work but meh may as well try it.

[reaverz]

Originally Posted by Fat Wilyweavile

Doesn't aftermath only hit if the pokemon was ko'ed by an opponent making physical contact? So it probably won't work but meh may as well try it.

Yes, but I am asking if the ability now has a hidden effect of boosting the power of those exploding moves. Baseless assumption, perhaps, but who knows...

[thelaytonmobile]

I was on Serebii and I saw something interesting: You can get shoal salt and shoal shell items. However, you can get a Shell Bell I think without having to use these.
I know Serebii can be wrong and that this was a rumour last gen, but I wonder if Shoal Salt and Shoal Shell now have an effect somehow.

[PJ_Graphix]

here is a curious question that will probably be low priority as part of the question involves a Dream World Ability but i would like to be tested nonetheless:

On pokemon with the Simple ability and the Unaware ability such as Kokoromori, how are the psychic move Assist Power and the dark move Punishment calculated.

if a Kokoromori uses Calm Mind, it gains +1 in sp.atk and +1 in sp.def but with Simple they are treated as +2 boosts instead. so would Assist Power increase its power twice or 4 times?

Furthermore, if say an opposing Gardevoir uses a Calm Mind and then Assist Power on an Unaware Kokoromori, does assist power have just 20 base power since Unaware ignores the opponent's stat boosts, or is it still boosted twice?

This goes for the move Punishment as well, if Simple Bibarel uses Amnesia and an opposing Seviper uses Punishment, will Punishment's power be increased by 40 or by 80?