|Nov 11th, 2010, 1:02:05 AM||#1|
Join Date: Sep 2010
VGC RMT first RMT
this is a team based on trick room and marowak
well as the tite suggest im going to use marowak becuase of his masive attack after thick bone
then i needed a trick room user because of marowaks slow speed i chose bronzong becuase i know he can take a hit and still get it up if they dont use taunt
next i wanted another trick room sweeper that would also have good synergy i chose octillery because he has water spout and when playing with marowak electric attacks are absorbed because of lightningrod
last i wanted a poke that complemented my pokes nicely and was also a treat himself heatran was an obvious choice absorbing fire attacks aimed at bronzong and just a monster in general
Bronzong @ Macho Brace - Marowak @Thick Club
Ability: Levitate - Ability: Lightningrod
EVs:252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD - EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def/4 SpD
Nature:Brave - Nature: Brave
Trick Room - Rock Slide
Gyro Ball -Earthquake
Zen Headbuttt -Thunder Punch
first turn is setup marowak protects while bronzong uses trick room if theres a fear of fire attacks switch to heatran, otherwise set up the trickroom. next turn marowak starts EQing away. double edge is running rock head T-punch if running Lightningrod. i dont know what to put in the last moveset for bronzong suggestions appreciated
Octillery @ Expert Belt
EVs:252 HP/252 SpA/4 SpD
- Water Spout
- Charge Beam
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
octillery is a standard trick room sweeper i have charge beam instead of surf becuase i dont want to hit my teammates. basicly waterspout owns. expert belt becuase he has great type coverage. and life orb would weaken water spout
The Fire Absorber
Heatran @ Charcoal
EVs:248 HP/252 SpA/8 Def
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Dragon Pulse
the glue of the team and a strong sweeper. charcoal might seem out of place and if you cna think of a better item suggest it. But with flash fire and charcoal heat wave and flamethrower become absolute monsters.
Im up to any criticism/suggestions you may have.
|Nov 11th, 2010, 8:47:22 AM||#2|
Join Date: Jun 2010
You kinda get wrecked by Fake Out leads. Also, you probably want an Iron Ball Kyogre over your Octillery. Besides that, I would wait until VGC season to post this, given that VGC is fairly dead.
|Nov 11th, 2010, 8:53:22 AM||#3|
also known as Darkwing_Duck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Andromeda Galaxy
One of the most common VGC 2010(I think that is the metagame of this team?) leads, Kyogre/Hitmontop runs all over this, and here's how:-
Turn 1: Its really obvious that you'll protect turn 1 with Marowak(why else would anybody lead with Bronzong + Marowak?), so Hitmontop Fake Outs Bronzong, while Kyogre fires off a ridiculously Water Spout, which means if you try to bluff and not protect, Marowak will die.
Turn 2: Water Spouting again + Mach Punch from Hitmontop against Bronzong should KO both your leads IIRC.
Turn 3: Mach Punch Heatran, and Thunder Octillery.
I can't really see a way to fix this without replacing 3/4 of this team's members, but another note is that you only have one Trick Roomer, which is not really sufficient despite the fast pace of doubles.
EDIT: If the metagame is VGC 2009, Fake Out leads still give major problems. Due to the nature of this team, an opponent can get in 3 attacks on Bronzong + Fake Out before it can even make a move, and you don't have any backup Trick Roomers.
|Nov 11th, 2010, 10:55:05 AM||#4|
Join Date: Sep 2010
i was thinking about this i should say this is mainly a PBR team which is essentiall vsg but mainly noobs playing it plus you can switch soem of your team around if you see fake out leads. but if anyone has a suggestion to stop fake out lead. i have a few ideas. i dont mind switching out a poke
|Nov 12th, 2010, 6:53:10 PM||#5|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Where the sidewalk ends.
Vgc teams are formed around the idea that they play of each other's strengths and weaknesses while taking advantage of the opponent's weaknesses as well. I can see that your tried to make your team supprot each other with the lightning rod ground type and earthquake with levitate partner. However, that's not going to work. A brave bronzong with only 252 hp and 4 spD evs will not take an ogre spout. Bronzong should be made for walling and then if it has a chance, attacking. A more suitable choice for setting up trick room would be cressila. It negates any ground damage with levitate, is bulkier than bronzong, and can function as an excellent support.
The main thing that bothers me, is that you have no ubers. Only 0.01% and less have teams not having ubers that are succesful in this metagame (unless your aiming for 09 vgc.)
To stop fake out leads is more up to prediction than changing your team. Of course any opponent, once they see bronzong knows your going to trick room immediatly. They are going to fake out bronzong and your turn will be wasted since trick room is not set up and bronzong is OHKOed or close to it. You said that heatran would absorb any in coming fire attacks. Well, fire attacks aren't that common. The pokes that have them are Groundon (somewhat uncommon fire punch), Infernape(Uncommon heatwave), Togekiss (Uncommon Heatwave), Flamethrower on Mewtwo, dialga, and palkia. (I'm probably forgoetting a few.) This might seem like a long list, but with kyogre on the usage statistics at 50% the probablity of hetran being able to have a free switch in and boost are slim. Switching in octillery is also not an option.
I did a damage clac,
(252 hp Quiet)Octillery hit by (252 SpA Quiet) Kyogre Water Spout in Rain, 81.3% - 95.6% (No items)
(252 hp, 252 SpD sassy) Octillery hit by (252 SpA Quiet) Kyogre Water Spout in Rain,
55.5% - 65.4%
Not a safe switch in at all.
You wanted a good fake out counter?
Not only does Toxicroak make a safe switch in, after Bronzong protects and Toxi is switched in with full health thanks to water spout( In case fake out hits toxi), Toxicroak is able to fake out kyogre back while bronzong sets up trick room undettered. Then it is free to do damage with lowkick.
There is a lot more that I can say, but trust me , you do not want to read a lecture on what to do and what not to do with your team.
Go on pokemon online, create a team, test it with the doubles tab under VGC 2010 or 2009 and make corrections with trial and error.
Trade thread ^
Current trade thread w/ generation 5: http://www.smogon.com/forums/group.p...cussionid=3114 Stop complaining about hax people :/
|Nov 12th, 2010, 9:52:39 PM||#6|
Join Date: Nov 2009
After finishing a VGC style torunment recently (which I won, with a bit of help from accuracyhax :))
You have a weakness to the most common pokemon in the VGC Metagame
The most popular pokemon in the VGC is Kyogre. It can outspeed both of your leads, and has a very high chance of KOing both Marowack and Bronzong. His top partner, Hitmontop, hits hard with Technician boosted Mach punch and Fake out, easily picking off the Bronzong if it survives. After that, the rest of your team falls apart without the Trick Room support.
I think that you should give your team some more though. SkarmBliss has an excelent VGC community, and i'm sure they'll be happy to help you rate your team, since they specialize in this stuff anyway @-@
If you want to continue using your team, I suggest you switch out a few pokemon.
Keeping Trick Room in mind, replace Bronzong with Dialga. Dialga is much better for the job, since it can survive Kyogre's Water Spout with over 50% of it';s HP left most of the time, and set up Trick Room at the same time. Beware the Hitmontop though, it can pick you off with a combination of Fake Out and Mach punch.
That is why i am suggesting a second member to your team, Togekiss. This is a Follow Me Togekiss, which absorbs Hitmontop's attempts to disable Dialga. Water Spout will still hit Dialga, but it is sure to get off a Trick Room now.
If you want a second trick roomer, Cresselia is a good choice. It is slow and very bulky (i suggest a +SpDef nature just in case, just ran some damage calculations and i'm very dissapointed actually)
About your sweepers, Marowack is an interesting choice, and has the potential to destroy a lot of teams with it's sheer power. I would much rather use a TR Groudon, but it's up to you.
The Octillery is outclassed by Kyogre when using Water Spout, even though it's slower. Some people I faced actually used a TR Kyogre, which was pretty interesting. The Heatran isn't that good in my opinion, since there aren't that many fire moves in the VGC (based on my experience that is).
I'm not very good at rating teams, but I hope I helped.
|Nov 13th, 2010, 7:03:57 AM||#7|
Join Date: Oct 2009
All of you guys are jumping the gun and comparing it to the wrong metagame. This is clearly an 09 team since no competitive player would run a 2010 team with no Ubers whatsoever.
And onto the team. Your team is really outdated. Only in the beginning of the 08 metagame could someone protect with one pokemon and set up Trick Room with the other. A good TR team has to have something provide help for its partner to set up instead of just sit there and obviously protect. Fake Out and Follow Me come to mind. Smeargle would just wreck you first turn if it got off a Dark Void, as would a first turn taunt. Put a sleep berry on Bronzong to prevent that. While Marowak is a good Pokemon, I just think it should come out of the back of a VGC team to sweep later on, but that's just me.
Octillery seems good. Water Spout is devastating. Pretty good coverage. Protect could go on over charge beam. I'll let my friend Tucker see if he can fix this because he knows how to use UU water types pretty well.
Heatran needs to drop Flamethrower. Heat Wave and Flamethrower are too repetitive and could instead be a more devastating move like Explosion.