Metroidvania Mafia Postgame - Page 2

jigglypuffers42 · Nov 15th, 2010, 7:43:41 PM

Quote:

I must have heard a thousand times how unfair it was for the mole to have to live until the end of the game to win. And she was right. Not just because as a mole it meant that she had to be more reserved, but because another player wanted her dead. And yet, she did a great job of staying alive, the only mole to live past Night 2. She also lived until the game was called, so you could say she fulfilled her secondary win condition (but not her primary).

My thought was that while it was asking a bit to stay alive, the player wouldn't have to DO anything to win. They wouldn't have to seek out X, or plead to become leader, or kill a specific player. But considering that only 2 players were alive on the winning team (and really only 1 would have been if I hadn't called the game), it really was a cruel win condition for this format (that might work better in a tradition village vs. mafia game).

But not as cruel as giving jiggly the super reverse martyr item.

Rogue was one of three mostly unused roles that was used to make a convincing mole.

Everyone played great. Just goes to show you not to underestimate newer players.

Thanks von for the releif that someone else saw it; I hate staraptor call. He killed our bg n1, leaving a mole that had to survive till the end of the game, with no bg.

Also, the one thing that worried me about this game was balance. It was a GREAT design, but, the rule of balance, which is

Everyone should have an equal chance of wining.

I don't think this was present in your game. BM's wc was really easy, win with faction, or win with a (practically) harmless neutral. People like me didn't have it that easy. I'd like to appreciate everyone with a similar wc.

-TheLucarioEffect- · Nov 15th, 2010, 8:09:47 PM

I won? lol, I most certainly didn't deserve it. but I did my job in sucking up a kill, I listened to spiffy, and it paid off. I don't believe I was meant to live long, and although it was sad to die so early I had fun. way to go castlevanians!

Phantasia · Nov 15th, 2010, 8:18:14 PM

People with OR win conditions had it pretty easy imo. It was like having a non-OR WC with the option of doing something else and still winning.

assassinfred · Nov 15th, 2010, 8:38:22 PM

Good game, few things I'd like to comment on, though.

First of all, my win condition was fucking hard to achieve. Especially with it being an AND win condition. I needed to kill the leader of a faction, whether I ordered the kill or was ordered to kill. Spiffy tried to get this for me very early in the game, so thanks to him for that! Ah, Spiffy, brings me back to Night 0...

Night 0, I contacted Quagsires, having his name in my role PM. I then get told by Spiffy that jigglypuffers has mine. So, I contacted her, as well. The three of us didn't trust Spiffy in the beginning (little did I know that one of us was actually the mole -.-), and planned to tip the leader vote towards Quagsires. However, the other in our faction were not so easily swayed, and Spiffy ended up being leader, which turned out to be the right choice in the end.

Night 1, Spiffy told me he knows who a faction leader was and was going to get me to kill them. This earned him my trust. After that, I basically did whatever Spiffy wanted me to, until I died as part of the Castlevanian Massacre.

Also, a note as to how I thought this game worked. When the Castlevanians started uniting based on the name chains, I thought it was too easy. I knew the mole was in our name change somewhere, but I didn't think that our mole was.

Good game, great concept, the only issue I had was balance, and while the roles themselves were balanced, the win conditions were not. Those of us with AND win conditions really had it tough.

Also, why is it I was connected to both moles in some way -.-

vonFiedler · Nov 16th, 2010, 12:17:50 AM

Of course I was impartial towards King Emerald. He has always been a cooperative player and a good sport, and he tried to fix his error immediately. He was still punished. Spiffy on the other hand, I still truly believe was just trying to piss the hosts off out of poor sportsmanship. If you think I'm such a shitty host, then by all means don't sign up for any of my future games.

As I said, I think the most unbalancing factor faction wise was the Badelaire. As for WC, like I said, it's a great idea that can certainly be done better in the future. Remember, sometimes you play good and lose. I stand by most of my ANDS, but I am truly sorry about the "Survival" WC. Like I said, it could work for a village player, but not here. As for the ORS, Phantasia is right, it was like having no AND as well as a way out. But consider that only 2 out of 9 ORS were achieved, and BM may not have worked for his, but Pidge certainly earned that victory.

AuraPaladin · Nov 16th, 2010, 12:38:41 AM

Spiffy not mentioning me when I pretty much godkilled him makes me sad :(

Second Mafia game on Smogon, and I think I'm learning well.

My Night 0 action ended up being the best it could be - I claimed to Yeti first off, and was ready to sg her, which would have meant that we wouldn't have identified the mole until later on.

Aside from that, there wasn't much else - I just let the others do their thing, and reported to Acklow about stuff that had been going on. SGing him was a no-brainer, that was what I attempted to do in Randomness, and it worked fine until he died. Hooray for animal bullshittery.

Then I got into a fight against Spiffy, after he went on the IRC, and tried to get everyone to take out the castlevanians. No-one listened, and I died after the SP ended up taking me out. I really have to learn to make better defenses...

After Fate died, I was kicking myself - he was one of the three or so people on when I was on the IRC, and it could've worked out greatly. Sadly, a mistranslation (Acklow thought I said I needed him dead, even though I corrected it eventually) and a nervous me made sure that wouldn't happen. Sorry, Fate!

Red Rust is a horrible excuse for a katana and I hate it so much. I was going to keep it until we could cripple someone with it, but I ended up being convinced that it was a bad idea, so I gave it to Spiffy.

MVP-Wise, I'm going to Vote StevenSnype - he did manage to salvage a victory for the castlevanians, after all.

Also King Emerald could not have possibly thought he was a reverse matyr, because he was put down as a matyr from the start.

EDIT: Wow, you guys too?

Everyone that was connected to a mole was connected to two? lol.

Pidge · Nov 16th, 2010, 4:59:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Captain Bagman

But Pidge decided to tie the vote (still not sure why he did this) and our plan went to hell.

If I recall correctly, it was because jiggly was like begging me to do so, and there being some kind of balancing aspect of it (if this lynch isn't turned around, the Space Pirates will have complete control!).

Is my spreadsheet working for public view?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...sD&hl=en#gid=0

jigglypuffers42 · Nov 16th, 2010, 8:50:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pidge

If I recall correctly, it was because jiggly was like begging me to do so, and there being some kind of balancing aspect of it (if this lynch isn't turned around, the Space Pirates will have complete control!).

Is my spreadsheet working for public view?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...sD&hl=en#gid=0

Begging is the best strategy. Always beg; 90% of times it gets you somewhere good.

General Spoon · Nov 16th, 2010, 9:04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat vonFiedler

Of course I was impartial towards King Emerald. He has always been a cooperative player and a good sport, and he tried to fix his error immediately. He was still punished. Spiffy on the other hand, I still truly believe was just trying to piss the hosts off out of poor sportsmanship. If you think I'm such a shitty host, then by all means don't sign up for any of my future games.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the draws of restrictions the ability to get players who don't pay enough attention to what's going on godkilled?

Acklow · Nov 16th, 2010, 9:57:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pidge

Is my spreadsheet working for public view?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...sD&hl=en#gid=0

Yes, and now I see why you won the Spreadsheet award. It looks awesome.

vonFiedler · Nov 16th, 2010, 10:01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat General Spoon

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the draws of silencing the ability to get players who don't pay enough attention to what's going on godkilled?

No. Silencing has the benefit of preventing a vote, and preventing the player from appealing to the majority of the players.

Captain Bagman · Nov 16th, 2010, 10:35:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Pidge

If I recall correctly, it was because jiggly was like begging me to do so, and there being some kind of balancing aspect of it (if this lynch isn't turned around, the Space Pirates will have complete control!).

polelover44 · Nov 16th, 2010, 10:44:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Captain Bagman

General Bagman?

RaRe555 · Nov 16th, 2010, 12:08:24 PM

If I were to write my (short) experience during the game it would be pretty much what Snype already posted.

A couple of things: yeah, I didn't update the night PM 'cause I was in a rush and forgot T_T Lucky us things still came out good. And yeah, I scavenged the Tyrfing off of assasinfred, along with the Stopwatch.

As for MVP, not having been around from the start of the game might give me a kinda biased view of things, but I'm gonna vote for StevenSnype because he was pretty much the one responsible for us winning as a team, and not with our alternative WC's (also thanks to Von for letting us know we still could do it :D). I was mostly giving my view on things and heping anyway I could.

polelover44 · Nov 16th, 2010, 1:41:59 PM

vote StevenSnype

Spiffy · Nov 16th, 2010, 2:45:28 PM

vote Pidge

He's a nice guy.

Steven Snype · Nov 16th, 2010, 6:10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat polelover44

General Bagman?

It's clearly Bagman Wright: Ace Attorney

and I just remembered something that looks like it was a good idea. When I told LKK (seriously who calls him ikk?) and BM that Rare and I were harmless neutrals, I told them that rare needed to kill a belmont and I needed to be elected leader for 4 nights. SPs can you confirm if you believed it or you knew i was bsing?

MVP i'm probably going to vote ginganinja because he put in a shitload of effort into trying to get the castles to win regardless the fact that he was going to die, knowing full well that he was going to lose. That is a team player, helping out a faction when you have no chance of winning and therefore wouldn't generally care.

EDIT: Bleh, our OR alt WCs basically made us Neutrals.

Acklow · Nov 16th, 2010, 10:49:02 PM

Persuaded to vote StevenSnype for MVP.

RaRe555 · Nov 16th, 2010, 10:52:36 PM

i swear that wasn't me

Captain Bagman · Nov 16th, 2010, 11:40:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat StevenSnype

and I just remembered something that looks like it was a good idea. When I told LKK (seriously who calls him ikk?) and BM that Rare and I were harmless neutrals, I told them that rare needed to kill a belmont and I needed to be elected leader for 4 nights. SPs can you confirm if you believed it or you knew i was bsing?

By the time you subbed in, we already knew every players' faction.

Crux · Nov 16th, 2010, 11:46:50 PM

I am going to vote stevensnype for MVP

Staraptor Call · Nov 17th, 2010, 12:24:19 AM

As vonFiedler said, there was really no way I could have won. Not only did I have to be the last player alive with no powers other than killing, a tall order in the first place, I didn't have anyone in my role PM. To win, I would have had to get the numbers down to four and avoid being lynched, but I would have probably have been discovered that late in the game. Also, since I was not connected to any team, I was marked as suspicious by every team. I had no way of finding my only ally. Eventually I was found to be the wolf through the process of elimination, and since every faction was against me I could only defend myself with a hastily thrown together role PM. I never expected to win as a very underpowered wolf, and the worst neutral roles are the ones that can't win and know it.

My strategy in this game was to assume that since everyone would be deathly afraid of being moled, I would be able to survive without giving away any information. My Night 1 kill was a rand aimed for someone unlikely to be namekilled by someone else. On Day 1, I found Quagsires on what was announced as a Space Pirate mafia channel. I also found ginganinja and BunnyMaster on two channels that weren't the same. I assumed that either ginganinja or BunnyMaster was a Castlevanian, and I wanted to kill a Castlevanian N2 because they were the biggest faction at the time. If I had survived to N3, I would have attempted to arrange a deal with the then-losing Castlevanians in which I would let them control my night kill in exchange for spreadsheet access, and threaten them with killing their members if they did not comply.

**ginganinja** · Nov 17th, 2010, 6:16:17 AM

lol its funny that you would have wanted a deal since I was trying to find the wolf and offer him a deal. That plan went to shit when Acklow convinced me to switch targets and since I did not want another Castle lynched I went along with it. I also thought that it was risky forming a deal with the wolf as it could very easily backfire and had to factor in the possiability that the wolf was working for another faction so decided to go along with Acklow and get you lynched.

Might have been interesting if you had contacted our faction early.

Nov 15th, 2010, 8:38:22 PM	#29
assassinfred Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 680	Good game, few things I'd like to comment on, though. First of all, my win condition was fucking hard to achieve. Especially with it being an AND win condition. I needed to kill the leader of a faction, whether I ordered the kill or was ordered to kill. Spiffy tried to get this for me very early in the game, so thanks to him for that! Ah, Spiffy, brings me back to Night 0... Night 0, I contacted Quagsires, having his name in my role PM. I then get told by Spiffy that jigglypuffers has mine. So, I contacted her, as well. The three of us didn't trust Spiffy in the beginning (little did I know that one of us was actually the mole -.-), and planned to tip the leader vote towards Quagsires. However, the other in our faction were not so easily swayed, and Spiffy ended up being leader, which turned out to be the right choice in the end. Night 1, Spiffy told me he knows who a faction leader was and was going to get me to kill them. This earned him my trust. After that, I basically did whatever Spiffy wanted me to, until I died as part of the Castlevanian Massacre. Also, a note as to how I thought this game worked. When the Castlevanians started uniting based on the name chains, I thought it was too easy. I knew the mole was in our name change somewhere, but I didn't think that our mole was. Good game, great concept, the only issue I had was balance, and while the roles themselves were balanced, the win conditions were not. Those of us with AND win conditions really had it tough. Also, why is it I was connected to both moles in some way -.- __________________ Platinum FC: 1419 3385 5307 Diamond FC: 2664 4688 7007 HeartGold FC: 0303 2044 7149 White FC: 0003 3437 6418 Avatar by: Sæglópur

Nov 16th, 2010, 12:17:50 AM	#30
vonFiedler Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,156	Of course I was impartial towards King Emerald. He has always been a cooperative player and a good sport, and he tried to fix his error immediately. He was still punished. Spiffy on the other hand, I still truly believe was just trying to piss the hosts off out of poor sportsmanship. If you think I'm such a shitty host, then by all means don't sign up for any of my future games. As I said, I think the most unbalancing factor faction wise was the Badelaire. As for WC, like I said, it's a great idea that can certainly be done better in the future. Remember, sometimes you play good and lose. I stand by most of my ANDS, but I am truly sorry about the "Survival" WC. Like I said, it could work for a village player, but not here. As for the ORS, Phantasia is right, it was like having no AND as well as a way out. But consider that only 2 out of 9 ORS were achieved, and BM may not have worked for his, but Pidge certainly earned that victory. __________________ I will always go to sleep, even in a house where I just murdered a couple of cops. - Lightwolf

Nov 16th, 2010, 12:08:24 PM	#39
RaRe555 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 416 Inside your TV	If I were to write my (short) experience during the game it would be pretty much what Snype already posted. A couple of things: yeah, I didn't update the night PM 'cause I was in a rush and forgot T_T Lucky us things still came out good. And yeah, I scavenged the Tyrfing off of assasinfred, along with the Stopwatch. As for MVP, not having been around from the start of the game might give me a kinda biased view of things, but I'm gonna vote for StevenSnype because he was pretty much the one responsible for us winning as a team, and not with our alternative WC's (also thanks to Von for letting us know we still could do it :D). I was mostly giving my view on things and heping anyway I could. __________________ [18:00] <Acklow> yo [18:00] <Acklow> has anyone here [18:00] <aryan> 6:57 PM - Drazen: ever heard that song that goes ass ass ass ass ass

Nov 16th, 2010, 1:41:59 PM	#40
polelover44 Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,394 Myyyyy Precciousssssss.....	vote StevenSnype __________________ "I can't pretend to be much of a judge of poetry, I'm an English teacher, not a homosexual." - Stephen Fry in A Bit of Fry and Laurie An RU team.

Nov 16th, 2010, 2:45:28 PM	#41
Spiffy Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 929	vote Pidge He's a nice guy. __________________ *† I am a Catholic and glad of it. †* <ginganinja> my sister (speaking objectivally as her brother) <ginganinja> is hot <ginganinja> I wish I was a girl

Nov 15th, 2010, 8:09:47 PM	#27
-TheLucarioEffect- Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 200 south of the border (canadian border, that is)	I won? lol, I most certainly didn't deserve it. but I did my job in sucking up a kill, I listened to spiffy, and it paid off. I don't believe I was meant to live long, and although it was sad to die so early I had fun. way to go castlevanians!

Nov 16th, 2010, 12:38:41 AM	#31
AuraPaladin Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 53 Land Down Under	Spiffy not mentioning me when I pretty much godkilled him makes me sad :( Second Mafia game on Smogon, and I think I'm learning well. My Night 0 action ended up being the best it could be - I claimed to Yeti first off, and was ready to sg her, which would have meant that we wouldn't have identified the mole until later on. Aside from that, there wasn't much else - I just let the others do their thing, and reported to Acklow about stuff that had been going on. SGing him was a no-brainer, that was what I attempted to do in Randomness, and it worked fine until he died. Hooray for animal bullshittery. Then I got into a fight against Spiffy, after he went on the IRC, and tried to get everyone to take out the castlevanians. No-one listened, and I died after the SP ended up taking me out. I really have to learn to make better defenses... After Fate died, I was kicking myself - he was one of the three or so people on when I was on the IRC, and it could've worked out greatly. Sadly, a mistranslation (Acklow thought I said I needed him dead, even though I corrected it eventually) and a nervous me made sure that wouldn't happen. Sorry, Fate! Red Rust is a horrible excuse for a katana and I hate it so much. I was going to keep it until we could cripple someone with it, but I ended up being convinced that it was a bad idea, so I gave it to Spiffy. MVP-Wise, I'm going to Vote StevenSnype - he did manage to salvage a victory for the castlevanians, after all. Also King Emerald could not have possibly thought he was a reverse matyr, because he was put down as a matyr from the start. EDIT: Wow, you guys too? Everyone that was connected to a mole was connected to two? lol.

Nov 16th, 2010, 10:49:02 PM	#43
Acklow Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,970 I won't live my life by another person's script.	Persuaded to vote StevenSnype for MVP. __________________ This week's Avatar is from: Zetsuen no Tempest

Nov 16th, 2010, 10:52:36 PM	#44
RaRe555 Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 416 Inside your TV	i swear that wasn't me __________________ [18:00] <Acklow> yo [18:00] <Acklow> has anyone here [18:00] <aryan> 6:57 PM - Drazen: ever heard that song that goes ass ass ass ass ass

Nov 16th, 2010, 11:46:50 PM	#46
Crux Rawrr Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 933	I am going to vote stevensnype for MVP

Nov 17th, 2010, 12:24:19 AM	#47
Staraptor Call Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,422 Avatar by Lorak	As vonFiedler said, there was really no way I could have won. Not only did I have to be the last player alive with no powers other than killing, a tall order in the first place, I didn't have anyone in my role PM. To win, I would have had to get the numbers down to four and avoid being lynched, but I would have probably have been discovered that late in the game. Also, since I was not connected to any team, I was marked as suspicious by every team. I had no way of finding my only ally. Eventually I was found to be the wolf through the process of elimination, and since every faction was against me I could only defend myself with a hastily thrown together role PM. I never expected to win as a very underpowered wolf, and the worst neutral roles are the ones that can't win and know it. My strategy in this game was to assume that since everyone would be deathly afraid of being moled, I would be able to survive without giving away any information. My Night 1 kill was a rand aimed for someone unlikely to be namekilled by someone else. On Day 1, I found Quagsires on what was announced as a Space Pirate mafia channel. I also found ginganinja and BunnyMaster on two channels that weren't the same. I assumed that either ginganinja or BunnyMaster was a Castlevanian, and I wanted to kill a Castlevanian N2 because they were the biggest faction at the time. If I had survived to N3, I would have attempted to arrange a deal with the then-losing Castlevanians in which I would let them control my night kill in exchange for spreadsheet access, and threaten them with killing their members if they did not comply. __________________ ∩_∩ ¼_¼ φ_φ

Nov 17th, 2010, 6:16:17 AM	#48
ginganinja Delena 4ever Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,075 In Love	lol its funny that you would have wanted a deal since I was trying to find the wolf and offer him a deal. That plan went to shit when Acklow convinced me to switch targets and since I did not want another Castle lynched I went along with it. I also thought that it was risky forming a deal with the wolf as it could very easily backfire and had to factor in the possiability that the wolf was working for another faction so decided to go along with Acklow and get you lynched. Might have been interesting if you had contacted our faction early. __________________