Lucario

[Charlemagne]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucalibur

that was actually the easier and most direct way to say. the set itself would not be so horrible if was not by the evs and item, plus the fact he dont even bother to list the nature.

i am actually a bit scared that lucario might be outclassed as a SD sweeper by the other steel/fighting (forgot the name now), sure he lack the same base 110 atack and priority, but can take a lot more hits and is way faster(the first is the reason lucario can never get more then 1 SD, the second is why he always run priority moves).

lol I just noticed the 205 Evs in HP and SpAtk. For everyone's info, EV's should be divisible by 4.

Still there are nicer ways to get your point across. Everyone learns somehow.

That is the same thing I thought when I say Cobalion's (or whatever) stats. I think higher Attack and ExtremeSpeed push the game in Lucario's favor just a bit.

[Lucalibur]

i actually tested both. Lucario is a bit more to the high risk high reward side of the coin, the other one can afford to misspredict a move or two because he is very hard to ohko on the physical side without some shit like STAB boosted EQ/CC. i suppose it depend on the kind of team, HO ones will probably prefer lucario while more balanced ones will use the steel horse instead. what i fear is that the horse might use some shit like shuuca berry to get his hands on a second SD, what kinda negates the higher atack Lucario got over him.

[SJCrew]

Kobaruon is completely and utterly outclassed by Lucario in SD sweeping. Lucario is not only much stronger, which gives him the Attack he needs to break walls like Skarmory and Swampert, but Extremespeed is a gamechanger. Without it, Kobaruon can't do anything about faster offensive threats, even if they're weakened.

We also have to take into account that Kobaruon's movepool is barren. No Crunch, no Ice Punch, no Bullet Punch or any of that good shit. Some of Lucario's checks don't even mind him running Shuca Berry, since he can't OHKO Hippowdon even at +4 and he still gets checked by stuff like Shandera, Gengar, and Scarfers like Heatran all the same. Not to mention Kobaruon with Shuca Berry is still inferior to Lucario with Shuca Berry because of Lucario's strength and better movepool.

Kobaruon may have way better defense and slightly better speed, but it came at the hefty price of sweeping ability.

[Game Fusion Master]

damn i got messed up ihad 2 smogons open and i was writing 2 things at the same time in2 theads i meant to put mixedfor my zuruzukin set this one i meant special

[Quaily]

A little torn over lucario getting NP since people will not automatically assume it's a physical one. Justice heart would be a straight buff for the set I run now:

lucario @ life orb
justice heart
modest 70 hp 252 spa 188 spe
agility
aura sphere
hp:ice
dark pulse/shadow ball

Agility special lucario is always a fun set to run because it's so unpredictable, but without boosts it can get walled by things it can't hit with its stab/SE damage. Justice heart will help with that.

[Khan!!!]

i just thought of a stupid cheer up set.

lucario@life orb
252atk/252sp.atk
naughty/rash
-cheer up
-extreme speed
-vacuum wave
-crunch

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat Quaily

A little torn over lucario getting NP since people will not automatically assume it's a physical one. Justice heart would be a straight buff for the set I run now:

lucario @ life orb
justice heart
modest 70 hp 252 spa 188 spe
agility
aura sphere
hp:ice
dark pulse/shadow ball

Agility special lucario is always a fun set to run because it's so unpredictable, but without boosts it can get walled by things it can't hit with its stab/SE damage. Justice heart will help with that.

You should definitely run Close Combat on this set since it has more power than Aura Sphere and you won't be able to take down Blissey/Chansey without it. It also benefits from the Justice Heart boost, which would be the only reason to run Justice Heart in the first place. Ice Punch could be better than HP Ice for the same reason. If +0 Ice Punch can still OHKO Gliscor and -1 Ice Punch can still OHKO Salamence, then it's probably better since you can get the Atk boost.

[Rocket Boss Giovanni]

With Drain Punch getting a buff this generation, would it be foreseeable to see a set similar to this one?

Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
Inner Focus/Justice Heart
4 HP /252 Att / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance/Agility
- Drain Punch
- Extremespeed
- Crunch/Ice Punch/Blaze Kick

Drain Punch for restoring HP lost to Life Orb. Yeah it doesn't have the raw power of CC or Hi Jump Kick, but it adds survivability to Lucario as well as giving it a way to shrug off LO recoil as well as any damage it may have incurred. Just a thought.

[Sheaz]

Lucario won't be tanking much with 70/70/70 defenses. The typing is great, but I honestly don't see the appeal in making him a bad Roopushin.

@DDRMaster: Ice Punch and Justice Heart are illegal together since ice punch was a fourth gen tutor move.

[Sol64]

This guy is scary now he has nasty plot, he can be from either attacking spectrum which makes it pretty hard to switch in too. I think the only way to deal with it is to catch it off guard while it sets up an SD or Nasty plot.

Anything else should be auto-known from 4th gen with extremspeed and bullet punch, etc. Which moves outclasses Cobalon. IMO Cobalon should be relegated to the defensive role, it has good typing to abuse it and reflect to make physical super effective moves pretty much null.

[Lucalibur]

actually after testing the NP set a little i am kinda sad to say its not really effective. most lucario counters need to be ohkoed on the switch(gliscor) or else they outspeed and ohko, most of them resist fighting moves anyway(gliscor, mence, etc). ok sure you can kill heatran with vaccum wave now....but without CC bliss stops you(t-wave stop your sweep completely and she can outstall your aura spheres after that unless you crit) and hippo can survive a +2 aura sphere with the right evs(skarm is ohkoed by both +2 CC and aura sphere).

[Wafflez]

Nasty Plot is pretty much a inferior Swords Dance imho.Your doing pretty much the same things but hitting with a 60 base priority instead of a 80 base one instead.The main reason you would use Np Luke is if you want Dory checked i suppose.
Besides the current metagame isnt helping Luke a lot either.His counters are running around everywhere (Read:Gliscor,Hippowdon) and some of the most common threats such as Robushin,Shandera comfortably check him.

[Sol64]

I guess, Luc isn't so fast enough that he'd be sweeping much pokémon.

[Omega Zero]

Does anyone else think Crunch is now obligatory on Lucario now due to Burungeru?

[AccidentalGreed]

Originally Posted by Fat Omega Zero

Does anyone else think Crunch is now obligatory on Lucario now due to Burungeru?

Always has, always will be. Crunch was one of the more "popular" options on Lucario in the fourth generation, and it may be so in the fifth.

[Nubbins]

What's the point of NP lucario when SD has CC and +2 ES? Just wondering.

I used SD lucario a bit last gen and was disappointed by it's speed. Agility luke was better, but lacked power. How does it's speed fare this gen?

[Pentao]

Originally Posted by Fat Nubbins

What's the point of NP lucario when SD has CC and +2 ES? Just wondering.

A guy did the calcs a few pages back. NP Lucario seems just as strong as SD Lucario,

Originally Posted by Fat ShipShip

+2 Aura Sphere, max HP, 104 SpDef Hippo:

722 Atk vs 206 Def & 420 HP (90 Base Power): 439 - 517 (104.52% - 123.10%)

Standard Impish/Relaxed Swampert:

722 Atk vs 216 Def & 404 HP (90 Base Power): 420 - 495 (103.96% - 122.52%)

Standard Bold Vaporeon:

722 Atk vs 226 Def & 448 HP (90 Base Power): 400 - 472 (89.29% - 105.36%)

Standard Bold Suicune:

722 Atk vs 266 Def & 404 HP (90 Base Power): 342 - 403 (84.65% - 99.75%)

Skarmory and Forretress have no chance obviously.

+2 Vacuum Wave on Scarf Heatran:

722 Atk vs 249 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 324 - 384 (100.31% - 118.89%)

+2 Vacuum Wave on Scarf Tyranitar in SandStorm:

722 Atk vs 354 Def & 342 HP (40 Base Power): 460 - 544 (134.50% - 159.06%)

+2 Vaccum Wave will also OHKO the dangerous Doryuuzu and Sazando.

+2 Shadow Ball on Cresselia, basically the bulkiest Psychic possible:

722 Atk vs 296 Def & 444 HP (80 Base Power): 362 - 428 (81.53% - 96.40%)

54% chance to OHKO after SR.

Burunkeru (the water-ghost jellyfish) is not as bulky as Cresselia so it has no chance.

Even Blissey cannot beat special Lucario. Bold Blissey:

722 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (90 Base Power): 594 - 702 (83.19% - 98.32%)

Ubers Calm Blissey fares better:

722 Atk vs 405 Def & 651 HP (90 Base Power): 446 - 528 (68.51% - 81.11%)

Nasty Plot Lucario hits insanely hard.

There are some things NP Lucario can do that SD Lucario can't, for example, OHKO priority killing Doryuzuu and Sazandora. NP Lucario's also firing off attacks from it's superior (by 5 base points only though) Sp. attack stat, and even the bulkiest of special walls have trouble with NP Lucario.

That's not to say that it outclasses SD Lucario though, SD Lucario has better coverage options, +2 Extreme Speed does nab some kills that Vacuum Wave can't IIRC, and NP Lucario typically has to rely on Hidden Power or Dragon Pulse. They both suffer from the same problem of middling speed though.

[Zebstrika]

Lucario has 5 long ranged attacks in triple battles: Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Healing Beam, and Water Pulse.

Water Pulse is illegal with Justice Heart and sucks in general anyways. I can see it as being a good corner Pokemon in triples then. However, it would probably suck as a sweeper in triples, lacking a good move to hit all opponents, with only Rock Slide and Earthquake I think.

[enigmayoshi]

Lucario's most disappointing feature is still its speed. It couldnt sweep effectively with so many pokemon being faster than him.
After testing SD and NP lucario on PO, I would have to say that SD luke was better. NP lucario have to rely on moves of two types (Fight+Ghost), while SD got three. And ES hits harder than vacumn wave anyway.
I think that to find a position in OU this generation, lucario has to use its unpredicability. It has three +2 boosting moves (Swords dance, Nasty Plot and Agility), and complete counters for these three are rare

BTW~IM new here

[Lee]

If I was using Lucario on Wi-Fi I would have to go with the NP set because Doryuuzu is everywhere and stops SD cold.

If I was using Lucario on DW I would just keep on dieing to Shandera until I eventually decide to replace him with a Pokemon that isn't Shandy's bitch.

[SlyShady]

Why Dark Pulse on the Nasty Plot set? Shadow Ball outclasses it. Same damage, but with the possibility of a nice SpD drop. Even nabs a little better neutral coverage.

[Doom Chaos]

Originally Posted by Fat SlyShady

Why Dark Pulse on the Nasty Plot set? Shadow Ball outclasses it. Same damage, but with the possibility of a nice SpD drop. Even nabs a little better neutral coverage.

Dark Pulse's hax (Flinching) is better than Shadow Ball's hax (Stat Drop).
The only two Pokémon that resist the Fighting/Dark como are Heracross and Toxicroak. Trading "coverage" for better hax is fine.

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Fat Lee

If I was using Lucario on Wi-Fi I would have to go with the NP set because Doryuuzu is everywhere and stops SD cold.

If I was using Lucario on DW I would just keep on dieing to Shandera until I eventually decide to replace him with a Pokemon that isn't Shandy's bitch.

Unless you get smart and Crunch Shandera on the switch.....

[enigmayoshi]

Lucario can probably win shandera by using agility on the switch and crunch it to death

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Fat enigmayoshi

Lucario's most disappointing feature is still its speed. It couldnt sweep effectively with so many pokemon being faster than him.
After testing SD and NP lucario on PO, I would have to say that SD luke was better. NP lucario have to rely on moves of two types (Fight+Ghost), while SD got three. And ES hits harder than vacumn wave anyway.
I think that to find a position in OU this generation, lucario has to use its unpredicability. It has three +2 boosting moves (Swords dance, Nasty Plot and Agility), and complete counters for these three are rare

BTW~IM new here

Fighting + Ghost is unresisted coverage, so NP Lucario is actually good, though it has to use a weaker priority move in the form of Vacuum Wave.