(5th Gen) hate you nattorei... long standard OU warstory

[Barilzar]

Well, i was half expecting a very noobish war-story based off the title you gave this thread. I'm quite glad that I did check this page out, easily one of the best war-stories written so far. Great job man.

[idiotfrommars]

Lol you wrote a warstory against Eo too. Great job at least a 9/10 keep up the good work.

[Chameleon]

I really liked it. The commentary is what sets this apart from all the others, and you played well. The not-so-obvious, slow turnaround was also great, and created some suspense (without having to make the readers scroll through a sea of blankness). The Nattorei vs. Gyarados conflict was also amusing.

[Saint Ashes]

Loved this. Definitely giving Rest/Talk Dragon Tail a go on my Gyarados. I kept thinking how much more you would have destroyed your opponent if Skarmory had managed to get some entry hazards down earlier.

[Pombo]

Originally Posted by Fat [U

[/U]komoku]dragon tail is my quick and easy way to learn the most about my opponent's sets. they don't assume sleep talker, so they always try status or various strongest attacks from their sets, which gives me enough information to attempt to predict later. in this battle, I had to know if his nattorei carried thunder wave or leech seed, and that's why i d-tailed early.

dragon tail also carries another advantage in dragging out the battle and annoying my opponent, 2 very important things to force errors in logic. for example, i feel i couldn't have pulled off the toxic bait and switch later on in the battle with skarmory if i didn't dragontail all those times. as long as he's preoccupied with gya and dealing with d-tail, he has higher chance to forget about other counters and options, which worked well with skarmory in this example.

Well, if you though about it, congratulations. I just though you didnt because you didnt point tha out in the comments =P.
IMO, there are better options to scout your opponent's movesets than damaging yourself, but Restgyara could just heal off any Seed+Barbs damage, so its not a big matter.

About the Garchomp EQ's thing, I still think that EQing would be a better option, since you could keep the switching party as long as there was no entry hazards in field. In fact, keeping the momentum by EQing Nattorei or even sending Skymin had he sent Gliscor, would be a better option, IMO. Keeping the momentum against a stall team induces your opponent to make a mistake, and you can do it without risking yourself as you did.

Anyway, you are a good battler, and could i play against you, i would be reeeally happy (I cant ATM. My computer's broken and im writing with a fucking IPad =/).

Well, changing your playstyle during the match isnt a easy thing to do, but it IS effective, as you already know.
(Also, can you point any dumb grammar mistakes in my post?)

[Rotom-S w/balloon]

This was a pretty awesome warstory,with plenty of prediction and trickery.

I figured your opponent must have been someone signifigant if you hid his name

[Euphoria]

sorry for the quick rate my Comp is acting up this is the best War Story this week 8.6/10 it is pretty entertaining keep up the good work Gabe

[blackwing_zero]

that was a really nice story, very suspenseful and entertaining. long battle, but overall, it was nicely done and kept me reading till the end.

btw, i lol'd at all the starmie puns so 10/10~

keep up the good work!

[Chou Toshio]

I can't believe I read through all of this-- but I am glad I did. Nice warstory indeed. I agree Nattorei is nutzor.

[SalTheThief]

Aw yeah, a good warstory at last. Wonderful job and I enjoyed reading through it.

[KokoaKiwi]

Gorgeous format, typical warstory. It's really good for the UC standards, but seems a bit..."seen it before many times", sorry. I admit I'm a little biased because of the amount of Gen IV ubers in the team, though.

[Zracknel*]

Originally Posted by Fat KokoaKiwi

Gorgeous format, typical warstory. It's really good for the UC standards, but seems a bit..."seen it before many times", sorry. I admit I'm a little biased because of the amount of Gen IV ubers in the team, though.

Are you serious?

I haven't yet read a Gen V warstory with such depth of insight; regardless of what the teams are, what colors the fonts are, or who is playing, it was the content of this warstory that thrilled me to no end.

Both players were clearly out to win by any means possible, and the road for both involved tons of long-term thinking. Each player was in a race for information-- ultimately it seems like the OP was able to piece together his opponent better and had some good predictions along the way.

But wait, information? In a world where there are team previews? I have to say that I'm floored as a long time (weak) player who hasn't yet tried Gen V-- that information can still be this important after seeing the enemy team in its entirety is a testament to something. That this warstory could communicate that there are still big decisions to make-- that there is still potential for excellent prediction, battles of wits, greater emphasis on long-term thinking and everything else that makes pokemon competitive at all-- should illustrate its quality. I am so pumped after reading this.

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

Once Heatran was gone the match was over due to team matchup.

I'm really interested in this point-- going to quickly say that I am in no position of authority to agree or disagree-- but I am wondering if there was some way that Eo could have known this? If not from the team preview, then from the information that he had to work with up to that point?

Was this a case of the OP having an upper hand on account of realizing this first? Otherwise, why would Eo decide it to be worth the risk of switching in Heatran there in the first place?

Or maybe I'm trying to read too deeply into this or something.






Thank you for the warstory, komoku, I really enjoyed it.

[komoku]

Originally Posted by Fat Zracknel

Are you serious?

I haven't yet read a Gen V warstory with such depth of insight; regardless of what the teams are, what colors the fonts are, or who is playing, it was the content of this warstory that thrilled me to no end.

Both players were clearly out to win by any means possible, and the road for both involved tons of long-term thinking. Each player was in a race for information-- ultimately it seems like the OP was able to piece together his opponent better and had some good predictions along the way.

But wait, information? In a world where there are team previews? I have to say that I'm floored as a long time (weak) player who hasn't yet tried Gen V-- that information can still be this important after seeing the enemy team in its entirety is a testament to something. That this warstory could communicate that there are still big decisions to make-- that there is still potential for excellent prediction, battles of wits, greater emphasis on long-term thinking and everything else that makes pokemon competitive at all-- should illustrate its quality. I am so pumped after reading this.

really glad you enjoyed it. personally when i first heard of the wifi rule, i was really disappointed because it meant losing a lot of the strategy in a match. but after playing under that clause for a while i realize that it definitely doesn't ruin the game as i once thought.

I'm really interested in this point-- going to quickly say that I am in no position of authority to agree or disagree-- but I am wondering if there was some way that Eo could have known this? If not from the team preview, then from the information that he had to work with up to that point?

Was this a case of the OP having an upper hand on account of realizing this first? Otherwise, why would Eo decide it to be worth the risk of switching in Heatran there in the first place?

Or maybe I'm trying to read too deeply into this or something.

i'm the type of player that likes to watch matches as well as play. over my time in competitive battling i've watched a lot of the top guys play, as well as read many of the warstories in the archives (this is how i was able to write this one, since i saw all the archived ones). i think the top players CAN see the value of a single pokemon with just 1 look at a team.

but they are also human, and in this particular instance, if you look at Eo's team, and you look at usage statistics of gen5, scarftran is almost never seen(this is also why i was confident with rai's first move, cause you just don't see scarftran anymore). so why did he have one? because i think he believed scarftran was the best counter to skymin(at this point in the metagame, skymin is one of the top 3 threats, if not the #1 threat, so everyone's looking for a way to counter it), so he put it on his team specifically for skymin. which means that during the battle, he was overconfident in it's ability to counter skymin.

the safe move at the time clearly would be to bring in nattorei. or even better, use nattorei's protect earlier when nattorei was out against skymin to scoute whether skymin was scarfed or not, and also to see some of skymin's set. but maybe he wanted to save protect for later to surprise me, or he felt confident in what move i'd use. in fact, if you look at the switches he made on turns 14-16, you see that he switches in nattorei to skymin, expecting the seedflare. then he immediately switches in tran possibly to catch the scarf locked seed flare or hpfire, but i switch in latios instead. many latios run surf, so his natural conclusion is to switch in pringles to take on any move latios has, including surf, and to scout whether i had surf or not.

learning how and why he did what he did is what the top guys know best, knowing possible moves is almost a default necessity. luckly for me, in this battle he used many pokemon i've seen a lot in 5th gen, plus i've been using my particular team for a while, and i've been using sleeptalk gya from almost the beginning of gen5, so i know it's capabilities very well. one example is roobushin's stone edge. i know exactly how much damage it does on my gya, and whenever it does less than i expect, i immediately know it's a defensive roobushin, and this gives me more insight into it's moveset.

I think that saving/hiding moves and items will become all important in this wifi clause metagame. I tried my best to save hpfire, and to not reveal skymin's set or item as best i could, and i think it paid off in the end (even though hpfire on latios ended up not being too useful as i only got to use it once against his starmie since he didn't switch it out)

[November Blue]

Gotta agree, this is the best warstory I've read in a long time. I loved seeing skymin being used well, too.

Could you please post your gyara set?

[RaRaRabbit]

I have been very strict about war stories. I would read a war story thread and shake my head and prepare myself to write a speech about the flaws, while still trying to point out the good things (if any). I don't want to seem like I am discouraging new war story writers to never write any again, I just want to give them a hard shove in the right direction. It is, however, a hassle to critique... the terrible commentary people give, the horrible misplays, complete blandness of the battle, and the terrible formatting.

I opened up this thread optimistically as I ALWAYS do when a new warstory is posted (regardless of how bad the past 15 were). As I saw your team line up, I sighed and rolled my eyes, and continued on reading.

I must say, I was completely surprised. You have posted one of the BEST gen 5 war stories I have read (and I can almost say confidently that I have read ALL of the gen 5 war stories posted on smogon).

Great commentary. Great prediction. Amazing Gyarados. Your planning was insightful. At sometimes it was very suspenseful. And the formatting was near perfect. The only downfall of your warstory was your team (I absolutely hate ubers).

I dont think I have ever given anything out over an 8. You have a 9.75/10 for my vote.

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

I skipped over this because I was disappointed with other warstories. Then again because of the post count. Then I read it and stopped at the early Darkrai loss. If it weren't for scrolling down to Zracknel's post I wouldn't have read through this and missed out on one of the best warstories I've seen. Thank you and Zracknel, I'm hoping to see much more of you.

[Rem]

I was starting to lose faith with the multitude of weak war stories flooding this board. But after seeing the post count on this one, I clicked, and wasn't disappointed. This is excellent for a first war story. I loved how you thought multiple turns ahead and told us the reasoning behind all your moves, something that people need to incorporate more in their own war stories. I also didn't mind the language since it added some personality.

Nice job and keep it up; 9.5/10

[komoku]

thanks a lot guys, i really appreciate all the comments. means a lot to me that i could contribute to the community in my own little way

Originally Posted by Fat JT Swift

Gotta agree, this is the best warstory I've read in a long time. I loved seeing skymin being used well, too.

Could you please post your gyara set?

sure:


GYARADOS
impish w/ leftovers
252 HP/ 252 DEF/ 4 SpD
dragon tail
waterfall
rest
sleep talk

a couple of notes for him:
-he can survive most non-stab unboosted rock moves, which litter a lot of pokemon's movesets.
specifically-
max offense roobushin's stone edge will do 53.8-63.5%, but if you bring it in with intimidate, it only takes 36-42.6% damage. you'd be surprised at how many roobushin still go for stone edge after getting intimidated. also, it can survive 1 boosted stone edge, which does 80.2-94.9%, so if you really need to get rid of roobushin's boosts, he bulk ups when you bring in gya, which negates that bulk up, then d-tail it out.
-it takes zuruzukin's stone edges easier at only 40.1-47.2% if the zuru is max offense (adamant+252atk). it can survive even +2 attack stone edge from him, which does 79.2-93.4%, so you can use intimidate and then d-tail even after zuru's got 3 bulk ups
-dragonites are sticking around after it got multiscale, so you will see stone edges on it as well. they do 52.3-61.9% unboosted max offense. it can also survive +1 stone edge at 77.7-91.9%. so if dragonite got 2 dragon dances off, you bring in gya to intimidate it down to +1 attack, and then super effective d-tail it away.
- and finally, it can actually survive a SD dory's rock slide, which does 78.2-92.4% if it's max offense, or 71.6-84.3% if it's a speed nature. without SD, if you happen to d-tail a dory in, then it only does 39.6-46.7% and you can break it's balloon as you d-tail it out again, or you might catch it with a surprise waterfall, which on this gya's spread will do 88.1-103.6%, so 25% chance to OHKO dory if you d-tail him in and your opponent expects another d-tail and tries to take advantage of the negative priority to throw a rock move at you.

you'll likely be using this gya with entry hazards, so that makes everything even worse, and if you have stealth rock up, the chances of OHKOing dory with waterfall increase to 45%

don't try to take on an electric attack, even the smallest will almost cripple you, so it's good to pair this guy with chomp or some other ground pokemon. in the past i've used him with zapdos and lightning rod with good success since gya is easy bait for an electric attack and zapdos loves getting +1 SpA from any electric attack with Lrod. but using this pair leaves even more of a rock weakness on your team, so definitely build teams to cover that weakness.

EDIT: on second thought, i don't know if lightning rod zapdos is even released or not. i used that combo on the dream world ladder, so that's something to remember.

[GMLW]

Originally Posted by Fat komoku

hello, i'm komoku and i'm fairly new to competitive battling.

Fuck man, seriously? Either you can read minds through computer screens, or you're lying, I have never seen a new player play this spectacularly. Teach me, man.


Great warstory. The only thing that bugged me was the lack of capitalization and the run-on sentences, but that's OCD for ya. :/

[komoku]

Originally Posted by Fat GMLW

Fuck man, seriously? Either you can read minds through computer screens, or you're lying, I have never seen a new player play this spectacularly. Teach me, man.


Great warstory. The only thing that bugged me was the lack of capitalization and the run-on sentences, but that's OCD for ya. :/

i say i'm new because i only played for maybe 3-5 months in gen 4(in the span between chomp's banning and sala banning, i played infrequently. managed to get around 1300 points in rank before stopping) and then started playing gen 5 when it was first enacted on PO. i think starting again from the beginning of gen 5 has helped me learn the current metagame a little better. i think the real difference has been i recently started watching the tournaments in smogon's tournament room, which has shown me high level play and i've tried to adapt it to my own game. but i also think that this specific game between me and Eo, it was my first ranked match after i registered my name, and so i really wanted to do well and i was 100% focused(the match started out lazily, as you see with the death of rai. that loss really woke me up and i started trying much harder). my normal game is a little more lazy and i tend to fumble with overpredicting >_<. plus human psychology is the same no matter what game you play, so predicting becomes possible even for us rookie players ;)

[TubaKing]

Really nice battle and warstory.

Great job!

[Mario With Lasers]

Lol your first turn's thoughts have more info than a couple warstories I've read here in Uncharted. I still have other 67 turns to read, but I like what I see.

[Losa]

This was just tasty. The first 5th gen warstory I'd recommend.

[whistle]

ya this was a really nice warstory. i haven't played gen 5 at all but after reading this i feel like i have a passable understanding of the metagame. good job, and i'm looking forward to more from you in the future..

[Lady Gaga]

Brilliant warstory, awesome prediction on Heatran there. Good job in turning the tables on your opponent after taking off on the wrong foot. Although you could tone down on the emotion at the first part lol. Overall I'll give this 9.5/10.