Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records

[Kid Kadabra]

After 2 Calm Minds I'd just forgo protect and Calm Mind on the attack since it probably won't break Latio's sub even when super effective. All this stuff also chances if Metagross got a few Flashes down.

Out of curiosity, how do things change if you get some flashes down with metagross?

[EeveeTrainer]

Originally Posted by Fat espeonumbreon999

so this might sound stupid, and if it does, excuse me but how come when i go to the battle tower, it stops my fights after finishing fight 7?

Hey... your game might be defective. x_x

[Chinese Dood]

Originally Posted by Fat Kid Kadabra

Out of curiosity, how do things change if you get some flashes down with metagross?

If Metagross was able to get like 3+ Flashes down before it faints, if the opponent isn't an extremely strong attacker, I sometimes just forgo the Torment with Miss and just go straight to Memento (Twave and then Memento instead of Twave, Torment, and then Memento) because chances are high enough that between paralysis and the move missing, Latios will still be able to set up.

Between protect and sub, it's almost like pseudo-Pressure, AND if Metagross was able to get a few flashes down, assuming it's a 15-pp move, Metagross probably wasted the op like 5+ pp already, Missy gets another 2, so there's only 8 pp of super effective hits for Latios to stall out, which isn't hard to do between protect and sub.

... Also, I feel like giving my Latias-Mawile-Suicune another try (I'm going to tweak Suicune's EVs a bit) since I feel like it deserves another chance. My next team was originally going to involve a Torment Sturdy Probopass lol (It'll be similar to Fast Hippo's Torment-Tran), but I don't have a probo/nosepass and don't feel like putting in the effort to get one.

[Jumpman16**]

Originally Posted by Fat PlatinumMage

I've tried out using the record holder's team, the near exact setup they had. But I've run into many issues I didn't think I would... my record is 75, and all I want is the 100 streak.
What should I do? Should I get a team that is great overall, rather than relying on one that relies heavily on a choice-trick strategy? I'd need to be hax-proof, I know.

you shouldnt have used focus sash on garchomp over lum berry (i randomly saw your post on serebii somehow when i was looking for something else). you lost the battle you did because garchomp got burned by flamethrower because it also didnt have a sub...ive said this a few times in this thread but my teams are as hax proof as i think they can see so change things at your own risk

[PlatinumMage]

I understand that, now I've got it with sub. I didn't you were on Serebii! Huh...
So you're saying that using Registeel, Uxie, or the like could still be effective, but it could still have hax issues? I've heard the Battle Tower is randomized in several ways, so perhaps different strategies could work for everyone?

[EonADS]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Between protect and sub, it's almost like pseudo-Pressure, AND if Metagross was able to get a few flashes down, assuming it's a 15-pp move, Metagross probably wasted the op like 5+ pp already, Missy gets another 2, so there's only 8 pp of super effective hits for Latios to stall out, which isn't hard to do between protect and sub.

It's for this reason I'd suggest Latias over Latios. I've never used Latias as a sweeper in the BT, but I was the one who created Head Honchkrow's spread for his Latias, and I know how to use it. I've used Latios, and it's almost completely inferior because it's less bulky. The extra bulk may not seem like much, but it matters when you're talking about six to seven turns of Leftovers recovery. Especially when you can optomize the spread more easily.

[Chinese Dood]

Yeah! I know! That was one of the things I was going to do (I forgot if I mentioned it in my posts, hehe... I think I did). Latios IS completely inferior if it were to have the same Special Attack as Latias (i.e. a timid Latias with 4 HP 252 SpA 252 Speed is going to be much bulkier than a timid Latios that has the same SpA stat as the Latias).

What I didn't really like though... was how even at +6 SpA Latias still can't 2HKO the Calm Blissey (Latios can, and it's guaranteed with Stealth Rock). So then Latias has to run rest to pp-stall that Calm Bliss I think (or just keep switching)... THEN again, maybe it's not even an issue I should worry about.

The only thing preventing me from using Latias right now (as a set up sweeper) is that I only have one Latias and it's currently EV'd for Trick-scarfing (i.e. recall my Latias-Mawile-Suicune team), so I don't want to re-EV it just yet until I'm pretty sure that I'm done with Latias trick-scarfing at least for the next while. That's sort of also why I was saying I should just give my Latias-Mawile-Suicune team another try first, since I can't seem to find another combo that works nearly as nicely (Gyarados replacing Suicune was the only thing I thought of that I haven't tried yet, but I think Suicune's ice resistance is going to be quite critical).

EDIT: O yeah I'm probably going to be fairly busy in the near future so I probably won't have more long streaks going in a while...
EDIT2: I will give defensive Latias (with Rest) as set up sweeper a try though.

[Kid Kadabra]

I had a small streak, dont even remember what it was, jsut using a random team, consisting of a CB Mamoswine, LO Mixmence, and Sash Starmie. I threw it together, and most of the time for the early battles, mamo could just sweep with EQ or Ice fang or some shit. Anyway, it ended in me getting haxed terribly. Anyway it was my Mamoswine against his Granbull. It went exactly like this, no lie:

Turn 1: Granbull gets quick claw, and fire fangs for around 60%. I flinch.
Turn 2: Granbull get quick claw again, and fire fangs for the KO.
I send in mence.
Turn 3: Granbull gets quick claw AGAIN. Ice fangs for around 90%. I GET FROZEN.
Turn 4: I stay frozen as granbull takes me out with thunder fang.
I send in starmie, knowing that this battle is retarded.
Turn 5: I hydro pump, which of course, misses. Granbull thunder fangs for around 80%
Turn6: Hydro pump, does about 70%, and thunder fang takes me out.

I understand that I did not have a good team at all, but that hax, I mean, really?

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Right so I died in the 70th battle by getting extremely counter-teamed with a team that otherwise had trouble with only two pokemon.

LeadApe
MixMence
CM Raikou (Aura Sphere)

Basically a round would work like this. Ape comes in kills something with wither 1 Hp or sash intact, sash preventing hax (eg. Sheer Cold). Kou or Mence comes in and cleans, kou with Aura Sphere to stop evade hax.

Ended up losing to a dude who lead with a Rhyperior which failed to get 2HKOed by CC. Kou comes in kills with Aura Sphere, out comes Rhydon, Aura Sphere just misses the KO, Kou dies to Earthquake. Send out Mence, kill with Earthquake, out comes Tyranitar EQ fails to KO, game over.

Other than extreme counter-teaming this team had problems with exactly two pokemon: Lead Latias, Lead Crobat.

Latias being able to outspeed my entire team and hit them with Surf/Dragon movewas obviously a problem, only Raikou's bulk saved me. Outside of the lead position it and Latias were not a problem as Latios fails the KO with EQ and they always came in on KOU with a CM.

Lead Crobat gave me problems just through hax. Hypnosis sleep on Ape, kill Ape, Hypnosis sleep on Kou, would have killed Kou without a two turn wake.

So yeah obviously the record isn't nearly as high as some here but the team is very different from most being discussed but is still a well built team with few weaknesses.

[PlatinumMage]

Is having perfect IV's for your choice trick lead (I'm referring especially to Latias) as important as having perfect IVs for the other Pokemon in a Battle Tower team? (Drapion, Registeel, Garchomp, Salamence, Tyranitar, etc.)

[Chinese Dood]

It depends on what "other Pokemon in a battle tower team" you're talking about, because different pokemon require different IVs. For something like Garchomp, yes of course having perfect IVs is always better, but it really only "needs" 31 Speed and something sort of high for attack. The rest don't matter that much, whereas something like Registeel really needs almost perfect HP, Def, and Sp Def and ideally fairly high attack in order to do its thing reliably.

If your other two pokemon really don't care about ice/ghost/dragon/bug/dark attacks, then your Latias probably doesn't necessarily need totally perfect IVs.

(On a totally unrelated note, currently at 168 streak with my Latias-Mawile-Suicune team... days have been slow)

[PlatinumMage]

Registeel is able to resist all of Latias's weaknesses. And I'll just go for the nature, then. What's even better about the Dragon type, is I won't draw Fire, water, or electric attacks, which Registeel is either neutral or weak to. So, Latias, turns out, would be even better than my Cressilia. Huh...

[Chinese Dood]

Yes Latias is better than Cresselia in terms of resistance combo with Registeel (In fact, it's pretty much "ideal"... no better resistance combo). It's also better because Charm > Reflect (except for Metagross, but whatever).

Just so you know though, there are a few pokemon that will still use fire or water attacks. Water isn't a problem, but just take note:
769,Infernape 4,Jolly,King's Rock,151,156,91,111,91,176,Flare Blitz,Close Combat,Earthquake,ThunderPunch,Attk/Speed
-> will use Flare Blitz the past few times I encountered this thing
927,Entei 3,Modest,Shuca Berry,190,121,105,156,95,152,Fire Blast,SolarBeam,Hyper Beam,Sunny Day,Sp.Attk/Speed
-> This thing used Fire Blast before (I think it might use Sunny Day or Hyper Beam also?), not that that's really that big of a deal.

382,Gastrodon 1,Careful,Focus Sash,218,103,88,100,147,59,Waterfall,Earthquake,Re cover,Mirror Coat,HP/Sp.Def
518,Gastrodon 2,Sassy,Zoom Lens,186,103,88,144,147,53,Muddy Water,Mud Bomb,Recover,Yawn,Sp.Attk/Sp.Def
-> The fact that it might have sticky hold is much more threatening than the fact that it has water attacks (2nd one most likely will use yawn). First one might use Mirror Coat, but used Waterfall both times I encountered that one so far. For my Latias-Mawile-Suicune team, I just always Flash Gastrodon.

By the way, I wouldn't rely on Registeel totally for setting up. It's true that after setting up almost nothing can break its sub, but because of its lack of speed, things are going to outspeed it and back-to-back crits (1st one breaking sub) are much more likely to happen as Registeel is attacking last*. A fast set up sweeper as 3rd pokemon is quite essential. As you most likely have seen already, Peterko and Bozo used Garchomp/Salamence as the 3rd pokemon to be paired with Latias/Registeel because of their high attacking power even after little set up.

(Me currently @189 streak)
*For my current team I'm using Suicune as my only sweeper. Like Registeel, after setting up, nothing can break its sub, but crits and hax still screws me over. The good thing is that Suicune actually has mediocre speed (and it's not Cursing), at least enough to outspeed all the OHKOers other than Gliscor and Rapidash so that reduces potential hax somewhat.

[PlatinumMage]

Could I just charm the Physical Gastrodon and Infernape, and for the Entei just recover till it runs out of PP after choice tricking it? If the special Gastrodon has sticky hold...using flash does sound like an option, but there's always hax- and flash is leaving things to chance, so I'd want charm more. Salamence actually sounds like a very good option for dealing with it, it's only attack moves being muddy water and mud bomb, and muddy water would be resisted. Would dealing with electric moves be a priority over that, though?

EDIT: Oh my gosh... I realized there are about 10-15 Pokemon with quick claw and a fire/fighting/electric attack, that could in turn take out latias with an OHKO.

[Chinese Dood]

You aren't always going to know which Gastrodon / Infernape it is. That's why I just always flash (plus for my team there's Mawile with Intimidate. EVEN if it's physical, I'd still just flash with Latias actually, but then that's just specific for my team). You just have to have a plan for your team that will be able to win regardless of which Infernape/Gastrodon it is.

10-15 pokemon with qc that can take out Latias with OHKO? I don't think so, unless you include crits, but even then, that's unlikely. From what I know, Latias is only OHKOed by OHKO moves and crit STAB Night Slash/Ice Punch/Ice Beam/Blizzard/Shadow Ball (and obviously Fling Iron Ball, but if you trick it's most likely Fling Choice Scarf which does little damage).

I might be wrong but this is what I remember -> Glaceon is the only one that can OHKO Latias (Blizzard) with a special attack without a crit or OHKO move. Tyranitar is the only one that can OHKO Latias with Crunch (very low chance, but Latias fainting after sand is not unlikely), unless we count Choice Band Absol Night Slash (but if you trick then it won't KO without crit). EDIT: Oh and Heracross Megahorn... forgot about that one.

EDIT:
If I didn't forget anything... these are the ones that can potentially OHKO Latias:
839,Bronzong 4,Adamant,Quick Claw,174,155,136,89,136,53,Zen Headbutt,Iron Head,Earthquake,Explosion,HP/Attk
803,Golem 4,Brave,Quick Claw,155,178,182,75,85,58,Earthquake,Stone Edge,Gyro Ball,Explosion,Attk/Def
602,Lapras 2,Impish,Quick Claw,205,105,145,94,147,80,Sheer Cold,Perish Song,Sing,Confuse Ray,Def/Sp.Def
892,Metagross 4,Adamant,Quick Claw,187,205,150,103,110,90,Meteor Mash,Zen Headbutt,Earthquake,Explosion,HP/Attk
826,Muk 4,Adamant,Quick Claw,212,172,95,76,120,70,Gunk Shot,Shadow Sneak,Brick Break,Explosion,HP/Attk
943,Regirock 4,Careful,Quick Claw,155,152,220,63,167,70,Stone Edge,Earthquake,Hammer Arm,Explosion,Attk/Sp.Def
804,Rhydon 4,Adamant,Quick Claw,212,200,140,58,65,60,Earthquake,Stone Edge,Megahorn,Horn Drill,HP/Attk
847,Steelix 4,Brave,Quick Claw,150,150,252,75,85,45,Gyro Ball,Earthquake,Stone Edge,Explosion,Attk/Def
(Most of the exploders will not use Explosion on first move)

[PlatinumMage]

Okay, then what would I do against those? Just switch to Registeel, buff up with curse or amnesia, or use a substitute, and hope for the best?

[Chinese Dood]

No, just trick lol. Then switch to Registeel to do its thing. Well, except for Muk which I'd most likely charm in your case (For my team vs Muk I do something slightly differently).

[Holo386]

Pokemon Pearl battle tower win streak: 63 straight wins with in-game trainer

My team is:
Starmie choice scarf nature:timid
IV's 31/4/19/31/17/31
Ev's 4hp/252spatk/252 speed
moves: thunderbolt/surf/psychic/ice beam

Garchomp yache berry nature:adamant
Iv's 31/31/18/17/19/31
Ev's 4hp/252atk/252 speed
moves:sword dance/outrage/fire fang/earthquake

My Team Strategy was to work with my partner example latias is up first in battle along with starmie. I would use surf so latias takes little damage. So if latias can out run the opponents pokemons my team and my partner's team would be the most possible to knock 2 pokemons out before the opponent tries to make its attack. i also use starmie's other attacks when possible. So my goal is trying to not let my pokemons or my partners pokemons take alot of damage. Also i would have my partner have a pokemon in battle with high defense or the levitate second in battle so i can use earthquake and still try to keep my partner's pokemon in battle. I also use garchomp's other moves when nessecery. So the goal is to make the battle as less turns as possible trying to assure my victory.

[Chinese Dood]

Wooopsies, I just lost my streak again due to misplay lol. Pretty stupid of me, but o well. I just lost at 266 streak with my Latias-Mawile-Suicune team (darn, still couldn't break 300).

Lead was:
895,Articuno 1,Docile,Icy Rock,165,137,120,147,145,105,Blizzard,Fly,Roost,Ha il,Attk/Sp.Attk

I even said in my previous analysis that I (should) just T-wave all Articuno because I'll still be at a big advantage that way (worst case scenario is Mawile faints from Sheer Cold but Suicune will still get +6/+6 with decent amount of HP left).

But I was just being careless and Tricked, which isn't the end of the world since Latias can still Twave the next turn... except it got frozen by the first Blizzard.

That's still ok. Mawile can still Stockpile/Iron Defense, Sub, and then baton pass to Suicune to Calm Mind up 4 times... except I forgot to Sub and then baton passed to Suicune, which isn't all that bad (I actually BP without sub if it's another 5PP move like Stone Edge or Draco Meteor which cannot give Suicune status)... except of course Suicune got frozen.

Suicune was still frozen after Articuno fainted. What I should have done was... I should have switched to Mawile to set up some stockpiles (and sub) to baton pass to Suicune to have a higher chance of winning, because the next pokemon that came out was a Crobat.

... but that wasn't what I did since I just hoped for thawing out instead of baton passing.

If it was a physical Crobat, I still actually have a good chance. I switch to Mawile hoping to catch Crobat on an immune Cross Poison and Intimidate (if it is, Mawile can get Crobat down to -6 and still pass a couple iron defenses to the frozen Suicune probably), but it used Air Slash. That wasn't totally too bad, because one of the Air Slash Crobat also has heatwave to thaw out Suicune, so I switch back to Suicune.

Obviously since I said I lost... it means it wasn't the Crobat with heatwave. It kept using air slash. I switch to Mawile to try to Baton Pass at least one stockpile to Suicune, since if I can outstall the air slashes I still have a chance, but that was stopped short by flinch followed by crit. After around 5 or so more air slashes (with 2 more crits), Suicune fainted without thawing out.

That having said, I'm going to take a complete break from Battle Tower for a while since school's getting busy. Probably the only time I'm going to play pokemon in the next few weeks will be to RNG for Mew/Jirachi to free up space for event Entei and Suicune. So see you guys in a month or something :P
EDIT: Lol, oh boy, ok, maybe not quite, since sometimes I get bored doing work and RNGing is a bit intensive, so I might play some occasional tower or voltorb flips or something to take a break.

[PlatinumMage]

As a trick lead, would a Latias with these IV's and a careful nature be okay?

HP: 3
Attack: 16
Defense: 6
Sp.Atk: 11
Sp.Def: 18
Speed: 18

With max Speed EV's, It's speed will be 155 at level 50. It's Sp.Def would be 158 without any EV's at all, and maybe charm could cover up it's poor physical defense. HP would be 173 at level 50.

[Chinese Dood]

You can / should easily soft reset for a better Latias even if you don't know how to RNG. ... ... nature is "ok" (better with timid, but as long as it's not hindering speed or defenses it's ok), but IVs are quite sub-par.

If you want to go with that Latias, it will be better to lower the speed to 136 (to outspeed Metagross after trick so you can t-wave) so that you can have more EVs for defense (max out HP for sure, of course). That's my recommendation.

EDIT: That's 252 HP 160 Def 96 Speed to get you level 50 stats of:
173 / x / 118 / x / 158 / 136 ... which is workable.

[ashez]

unlucky on the streak again lol sure it'l break 300 soon :)

started streaking today after countless thinking and breeding just informing you all lol, currently on streak of 63.

i am running a gravity team in doubles :)

finding it really interesting yet difficult to run, unsure if this team will make 100 because i'm not completely happy with it atm kinda just picked two leads then messying around with back up 2 see what works and what doesnt

searched the thread and cant find anyone using a dedicated gravity team (few users tho) so was wondering if anyone got any tips?

obviously will report back with more when got a decent streak :)

also wondering has anyone came up with any decent (on paper) teams for B/W? or hasnt any looked as yet?

[PlatinumMage]

A speed stat of 204 would be excellent, but the only major threats that have base speed higher than Latias would be Weavile and Aerodactyl, and I've already found I'll outspeed a jolly, max IV'd aerodactyl's speed stat of 200 when at level 50. So maybe I could give Latias a few less EV's to make it's speed stat 134, or 201 when scarfed?

[Chinese Dood]

134 to outspeed 200 is ok, but you might as well get to 136 to outspeed Metagross even after tricking, like I mentioned (Metagross has 90 speed, so 135 after scarf). Having those 2 extra speed to get the Twave on Metagross is quite helpful because Meteor Mash will 2HKO Latias, and if Metagross gets early attack boosts from Meteor Mash it might be a bit difficult to set up on. It's pretty much needed if you're using Drapion, but with Registeel it's fine not to.

That said, it's not like 2 extra Defense points will allow you to survive much that you wouldn't otherwise, so I see no point not to just have 136 speed.

[Peterko]

actually with 187 HP and 148 defense (still hits 136 speed), latias will survive a CH meteor mash 100% of the time

needs to be bold though, with pretty much perfect IVs

and from your earlier list, rhydon needs a QC CH megahorn (1,3% probability is still "high"), QC CH stone edge is slightly weaker (200 atk) than the above metagross (205 atk) CH...of course QC horn drill turn one is the actual nightmare from rhydon (same as lapras, for that matter)

only claydol and lickilicky have ever boomed on me turn1, like 3-4 times total in those thousands of battles I had