Chansey (Analysis)

[Charmander]

I've never done it before, so now I know I have trouble writing about one-dimensional Pokemon. If anyone wants to rewrite this, go ahead =(
Taking over for Bologo. Status: DONE! this is Bologo's original thread


Chansey

[Overview]

<p>With the addition of Evolution Stone, Chansey is now viable in OU. Evolution Stone makes Chansey now bulkier than Blissey, and makes Chansey even harder to take down than before. Despite the loss of Leftovers recovery, as long as Chansey has efficient EVs, she will always take hits better than Blissey. With the mechanics of Wish now changed to heal by 50% of the user's HP, Chansey can now replenish its teammates' health by 352 HP. However, it's not all flowers and meadows for Chansey, as she still has no offense outside of Seismic Toss.</p>

[Set]
name: Wisher
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect / Softboiled
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Toxic
item: Evolution Stone
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[Set Comments]
<p>Wish is the main attraction of this set; With the mechanics of Wish changed to heal 50% of the user's HP, Chansey has by far become among the best Wish-users in the game. Chansey's Wish can fully replenish the health of Pokemon with base 105 HP Pokemon, like Rhydon. Seismic Toss and Toxic are the only ways Chansey can do real amounts of damage to both offensive and defensive Pokemon. Seismic Toss will always do 100 damage to any Pokemon, effectively 4HKOing most walls in the game.</p>

<p>The EVs maximize Chansey's ability to take Physical hits, and with Evolution Stone, Chansey takes them quite well. In fact, with Evolution Stone, Chansey even has a 43% chance to survive a Close Combat from max attack Jolly Life Orb Lucario. With no investment at all, Evolution Stone leaves Chansey at 369 Special Defense, equivalent to Blissy's Special Defense with 252 EVs. Chansey struggles to hit Gengar and Substitute-using Ghosts. A strong user of Pursuit, such as Spiritomb, can easily remove all of these with Pursuit. Spiritomb and Chansey also resist all each others' weaknesses, and Spiritomb can be EVd to take Physical hits, making the two very hard to take down together. As if that weren't enough, Spritiomb has terrible HP, meaning even with no HP investment, Chansey's Wish will always fully heal max HP Spiritomb.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>With this spread, Chansey will take Physical hits better than max HP, max Defense Swampert with a positive nature. Chansey's special walling capabilities can be compared to max Special Defense Blissey with a positive nature, while having a huge advantage in physical walling over Blissey.</p>

[Set]
name: Counter
move 1: Counter
move 2: Softboiled / Wish
move 3: Seismic Toss
move 4: Toxic
item: Evolution Stone
ability: Natural Cure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

[Set Comments]
<p>This set makes perfect use of Chansey's stat distribution, as Evolution Stone allows Chansey to take Physical hits very well. Small Physical dents in her can easily be bounced back with Counter. The beauty of this set is Chansey's great HP; an attack that does a measly 25% to Chansey will be thrown back harshly, removing 352 of the foe's health, which is usually more than all of it. Another thing Chansey has over common users of Counter is instant recovery in Softboiled. Softboiled is among the most reliable recovery moves in the game, always healing half of the user's health, despite the weather condition. With Softboiled, Chansey will be up and going for as long as she needs to Counter as many Physical moves as she can. Wish can be used over Softboiled to heal teammates as well, or to take a Physical hit the following turn and heal instantly heal back. Unlike the last set, this set is more focused on hurting the opponent with the surprise factor.</p>

<p>This set is what really differentiates Chansey from Blissey. With the Evolution Stone, Chansey takes Physical hits much, much better than Blissey, and will be able to run an effective Counter set. Seismic Toss has and will always be a staple on Chansey, doing a fixed 100 damage to the opponent. Like the last set, Toxic is here to do more damage. Ghost-types are still a huge problem for Chansey, takiing nothing from Seismic Toss or Counter. A strong Pursuit user can always solve this problem.</p>

[Additional Comments]
<p>While it may not seem ideal to have this spread on a Pokemon with Counter, Chansey can use all the Defense she can grab, allowing her to take Physical hits the best she can. Chansey can even bounced strong Fighting attacks back, as STAB Close Combat required a huge 447 Attack to OHKO Chansey.</p>

[Team Options]
<p>Chansey fits best on stall teams, as she is a staller by nature. Chansey will usually fall to any Ghost-type, so it is almost required that a teammate that can eliminate Ghosts is used. Anything that benefits from Wish is a good teammate, as Chansey can fully replenish the health of most offensive Pokemon, and more than a handful of defensive Pokemon. Chansey's immense Wishes can keep teammates up and running for a while. Spiritomb is probably the best teammate for Chansey, as it can eliminate Ghosts, take Fighting hits, and serve as a walling partner for Chansey, as well as burn strong Physical attackers with Will-O-Wisp.</p>

[Optional Changes]
<p>Thunder Wave can replace Toxic if you are in need or paralysis, but Chansey will lose her main weapon against walls, particularly defensive Ghosts who are immune to Seismic Toss. Chansey learns Stealth Rock, but Chansey needs all the moves she can get, Stealth Rock just makes her problem even worse. Heal Bell can go on either of the sets, but again, it's hard to find space. An alternative EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD and a Calm nature makes Chansey more specially bulky, wish a Special Defense stat of 508. However, her Wish will now only heal 321, which is a significant difference. This spread will greatly benefit teams that need a Pokemon to take absurdly powerful Special hits, like Hydro Pump from Choice Specs Kingdra in the rain.</p>

[Counters]
<p>Ghosts with Substitute or Taunt are really a problem as Chansey literally can't hurt them at all. Taunt in general cuts the effectiveness of Chansey in half, especially on the Wish set. Gengar is the most noted threat, as it is immune to Toxic, Seismic Toss, and Counter, and learns both Taunt and Substitute. Fighting moves are troublesome, especially from Roobushin, as Guts will make him even stronger when Poisoned. Wobbufett shuts Chansey down with Encore and Shadow Tag, and can Tickle Chansey until it is weak enough to die to Pursuit, as well as get a free turn of setup if you are stuck on Wish, Softboiled, Protect or Counter. Trick not only takes away Chansey's Evolution Stone, but it usually gives Chansey a Choice item, which hurts it more than anything.</p>

[Dream World]
<p>Chansey's Dream World ability, Healing Heart, is completely useless in Single Battles, and in Multi-battles, Chansey isn't the most useful pokemon due to how much more fast-paced the battles are. Healing Heart is also illegal with Wish and other 3rd/4th generation moves that make Chansey so useful. Healing Heart is useless when compared to her other abilities.</p>

[Charmander]

done

[exnecross]

Is cleric Chansey no longer viable? Cleric was one of Blissey's best sets back in 4th gen, and I cannot seem to find a reason why it wouldn't still be viable. Is it just not listed here, or is there some reason as to why it shouldn't be used?

[ARandomDude]

Thunder Wave definitely deserves to be slashed instead of OO. Thunder Wave can mess up certain threats in this metagame much better than Toxic can- I'm looking at Rain sweepers (come in on special Ludicolo/Kingdra/Gorebyss/whatever), Sazandora, choicers in general, etc. Walls in this metagame tend to be more poison-proof, be it typing (Nattorei) or natural cure (other Chansey/Blissey).

[IcyMan28]

Trick needs to be mentioned in the counters section, as Chansey is significantly more vulnerable to it than Blissey and thus needs to be careful when coming into Choiced Psychics or Ghosts.

[AasTmO]

lol @ Chansey and Spiritomb cover all eachothers weaknesses... 1 in total.

[Charmander]

Originally Posted by Fat exnecross

Is cleric Chansey no longer viable? Cleric was one of Blissey's best sets back in 4th gen, and I cannot seem to find a reason why it wouldn't still be viable. Is it just not listed here, or is there some reason as to why it shouldn't be used?

I'm not sure the reason, but QC approved this without a cleric set, so I'm sure there is a good explanation.

Originally Posted by Fat ARandomDude

Thunder Wave definitely deserves to be slashed instead of OO. Thunder Wave can mess up certain threats in this metagame much better than Toxic can- I'm looking at Rain sweepers (come in on special Ludicolo/Kingdra/Gorebyss/whatever), Sazandora, choicers in general, etc. Walls in this metagame tend to be more poison-proof, be it typing (Nattorei) or natural cure (other Chansey/Blissey).

What's OO and where is it slashed? Taking away Toxic is like taking away candy from a baby; you're removing Chansey's primary way of dealing damage. Thunder Wave is already mentioned but really doesn't deserve a slash. Funny how you mention Nattorei and Chansey. Nattorei doesn't give a crap about paralysis; in fact, it appreciates the Gyro Ball boost. You don't want Chansey in on Nattorei anyway because Leech Seed will heal big-ass chunks of its health. Opposing Chansey care even less about paralysis than toxic poison and as you said, have Natural Cure anyway.

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Trick needs to be mentioned in the counters section, as Chansey is significantly more vulnerable to it than Blissey and thus needs to be careful when coming into Choiced Psychics or Ghosts.

totally forgot about trick; adding.

[Togefan]

[QUOTE=-Charmander-;3240996]Taking over for Bologo. Status: DONE! this is Bologo's original thread


Chansey

As if that weren't enough, Spritiomb has terrible HP, meaning even with no HP investment, Chansey's Wish will always fully heal max HP Spiritomb.</p>
QUOTE]

Why are you saying having crappy HP is good just because chansey's wishes will fully heal Spiritomb? Chansey's wishes restore 352 HP so since spiritomb only has 304 HP at max that means Spiritomb doesn't benefit as much from it as a pkmn with 352 HP. Besides even if the Pkmn recieving wish has so much HP that wish didn't fully heal it that doesn't mean it benefits any less than a Pkmn who got fully healed by wish for having crappy HP instead they probably benifitted more since the Pkmn with crappy HP has less than 352 HP meaning that they recieved less HP from wish than the Pkmn with 404 HP. The only real reason a Pkmn with less than 352 HP would benefit more than a Pkmn with 404 HP is because of the ability Sturdy which saves Pkmn from being OHKOed if the defending Pkmn is at full HP.

[Charmander]

All I'm saying is Spiritomb gets fully healed rather than a Pokemon with higher HP which wouldn't get fully healed.

[Chispy]

I'd like to submit a correction: "Wobbufett" should be "Wobbuffet".

I need to keep up with these mechanics more. I totally didn't know Wish was reworked. This is just amazing for Chans/Bliss.

Originally Posted by Fat Togefan

Why are you saying having crappy HP is good just because chansey's wishes will fully heal Spiritomb? Chansey's wishes restore 352 HP so since spiritomb only has 304 HP at max that means Spiritomb doesn't benefit as much from it as a pkmn with 352 HP. Besides even if the Pkmn recieving wish has so much HP that wish didn't fully heal it that doesn't mean it benefits any less than a Pkmn who got fully healed by wish for having crappy HP instead they probably benifitted more since the Pkmn with crappy HP has less than 352 HP meaning that they recieved less HP from wish than the Pkmn with 404 HP. The only real reason a Pkmn with less than 352 HP would benefit more than a Pkmn with 404 HP is because of the ability Sturdy which saves Pkmn from being OHKOed if the defending Pkmn is at full HP.

Probably due to anything that relies on the % of your Max HP (Stealth Rock, Spikes, Toxic, Substitute, etc), since you'll be at 100% in the end. I do see your point that it's better to have bulkier in most situations. So perhaps Dusclops could be noted here as well since it would love a recovery move, and could also pull off Trick Room support for Chansey's more-than-lackluster Speed.

[-Victini-]

I really agree with ARandomDude; thunder wave fits a whole lot better than toxic. It shuts down speeders/leads and makes a great help for parahaxers.

[AccidentalGreed]

Originally Posted by Fat -Victini-

I really agree with ARandomDude; thunder wave fits a whole lot better than toxic. It shuts down speeders/leads and makes a great help for parahaxers.

In that case, Blissey is the better user of Thunder Wave. Chansey loses her only weapon against moderately strong attacker and walls, and Blissey could make better use of Thunder Wave. Some examples include Thunder Waving a Scizor attempting to switch into it, and then hitting it with flamethrower (provided it uses Dual attacks). Blissey could survive Special attacks relatively well, and the difference between taking special attacks is slightly negligible.

Thing like Porygon2 and Blissey are better off for thunder Wave, overall.

[Charmander]

Pretty much what he/she said^ Unlike Blissey, Chansey can't even use Special Attacks effectively at all so it needs all the damage it can deal.

[Charmander]

bump and read the bold in the OP D:

[Rising_Dusk]

Snorlaxe has taken this over here. Moving this to L&O.