Salamence - Page 12

shrang · Feb 25th, 2011, 12:15:12 AM

Quote:

I mean if 90 base SpA is good enough to be a game changing ground breaking dominating special sweeper in this gen with so-so bulk and worse typing, not to mention practically useless ability, why cant salamence do the same with 110 SpA, better STAB, slightly less speed, and ability to go mixed while focusing in clearly superior physical side ?

If you're talking about Birijion, they are completely different Pokemon. Birijion is great because it holds that really awesome anti-metagaming niche. Salamence, on the other hand, has about half a dozen dragons competing with it. Birijion's bulk is similar to Latias' (Less physical defense and basically the same special). It's really about what they do in the metagame. It's like comparing Vaporeon to Tentacruel in gen 4. I mean, Vaporeon was CLEARLY better, right? Then why was Tentacruel OU?

JSND · Feb 25th, 2011, 12:27:40 AM

yaa but To be honest the reason i stopped using salamence is not because of it sucks. It because that he fail to OHKO doryuuzu with fire blast. Yeah that was so disappointing that time. Now i want to try the mix DD>

IcyMan28 · Feb 25th, 2011, 12:39:50 AM

Naive 24 SpA LO Fire Blast does 97% minimum to 6/0 Excadrill, a guaranteed OHKO with rocks. Far from disappointing, IMO.

LeviLamprey · Feb 25th, 2011, 12:49:50 AM

And any neutral or +Sp. Atk natures mence with 252 EVs is a guaranteed OHKO without.

JSND · Feb 25th, 2011, 1:17:51 AM

sorry that was BP receiver adamant/jolly mence im talking about. Obviously i use lum berry.
Yeah might use Mix DD later

IcyMan28 · Feb 25th, 2011, 1:30:05 AM

If you mean Mence as a Shell Break recipient, then it should be able to KO at +2 regardless of nature.

min min · Feb 25th, 2011, 8:00:33 AM

So...is Adamant or Jolly the better nature for a Mix DDMence, and how many SAtk EVs are sufficient to be useful in average battles?

TM13IceBeam · Feb 25th, 2011, 8:16:58 AM

Neither, they reduce SpA. ._.

UnhandledException · Feb 25th, 2011, 8:22:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat min min

So...is Adamant or Jolly the better nature for a Mix DDMence, and how many SAtk EVs are sufficient to be useful in average battles?

Unless using it as a shell break recipient, use Naive to at least OHKO physically defensive Skarmory with no evs. Naughty works too I guess, since most scarfers would outspeed Mence at +1 anyway.

MtNiesen · Feb 25th, 2011, 5:24:16 PM

/is glad that finally people are discusing the pokemon, not teiring

does anyone have any legit sets that are, 'ya know, not the same old same old sala pwns everything sets? i want to use an untriditional mence on my next team

Gairyuki789 · Feb 26th, 2011, 10:13:57 PM

There's only two problems I still have making a good Salamence.
I've established that yes Dragon Dance, Outrage and Fire Blast are needed but what should the fourth move be? Brick Break, Stone Edge or something else? (given that Balloons will be involved Earthquake's not as useful anymore.)

The other thing is, for anyone who's done random battles on BW, you know you can't take pokemon in holding the same items, so their lies the only other problem since I like to give both Salamence and Lucario(the SD kind) life orbs.

Which of the two would be more suited for the orb?

masterful · Feb 26th, 2011, 10:32:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Gairyuki789

There's only two problems I still have making a good Salamence.
I've established that yes Dragon Dance, Outrage and Fire Blast are needed but what should the fourth move be? Brick Break, Stone Edge or something else? (given that Balloons will be involved Earthquake's not as useful anymore.)

The other thing is, for anyone who's done random battles on BW, you know you can't take pokemon in holding the same items, so their lies the only other problem since I like to give both Salamence and Lucario(the SD kind) life orbs.

Which of the two would be more suited for the orb?

I don't see why Balloons are deterring you from EQ, but Dragon/Fire is still perfect coverage outside of Heatran, which is pretty common and can't usually OHKO, so you should really just use that last move to deal with whatever you find trouble with the most

Nonary Game · Feb 26th, 2011, 10:44:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

Naive 24 SpA LO Fire Blast does 97% minimum to 6/0 Excadrill, a guaranteed OHKO with rocks. Far from disappointing, IMO.

Assuming it doesn't outspeed you. Unless they banned Sand Throw recently or something. Granted Intimidate can help, but still.

Salamence IMO just isn't as appealing as he used to be. He's got a lot of competition now, even if he does have a lot of power. A SR weakness doesn't help much, even if it doesn't stop him from dropping in to DD or fire off Meteors.

JforJeff · Mar 5th, 2011, 12:27:54 AM

So what would you guys say is the absolute best Mence set for this meta?

You have to ask yourself DD or no DD. I think the answer is DD. If you're not wanting to dance you're probably better off using Garchomp. I understand that Mence has some good special attacker set options but I've tried the dracometeor/fireblast etc set and found it under-whelming.

After you've decided if you want DD you have to decide on the nature. Jolly, adamant or a nature to maximize both of his attack stats.

I ask this because I'm having trouble figuring out the exact set for me. I keep getting inconsistent results.

bludhoundz · Mar 5th, 2011, 12:59:20 AM

I don't think Adamant is really a good option, due to the speed tier.

Jolly either really, because it weakens Fire Blast, and without Fire Blast your coverage gets much worse (and let's face it - Fire Fang blows).

Go Naive.

I agree though Mixmence has been underwhelming. DD Mix or standard DD seem to be the best.

KokoaKiwi · Mar 5th, 2011, 1:06:05 AM

What about a Scarf set?

Mence@Choice Scarf
252 speed. Need help with the rest.
Naive Nature
~Draco Meteor
~Earthquake
~Fire Blast
~Outrage / Hydro Pump / Stone Edge

JforJeff · Mar 5th, 2011, 1:17:19 AM

I'm with Bludhoundz I think.

DDmixmence
Naive nature
item? Life orb or maybe haban berry?
- DD
- Dclaw/Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

UnhandledException · Mar 5th, 2011, 5:02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat KokoaKiwi

What about a Scarf set?

Mence@Choice Scarf
252 speed. Need help with the rest.
Naive Nature
~Draco Meteor
~Earthquake
~Fire Blast
~Outrage / Hydro Pump / Stone Edge

Scarf Mence is inferior to scarf chomp/scarf latios(even sazandora). it is slower than key scarfers like rand/chomp/latios, it is weaker than all of them, and is weak to sr. Considering it needs to go mixed its a bit too weak to be able to relaibly revenge stuff. Wasn't viable last gen, isn't viable this gen imo

bludhoundz · Mar 5th, 2011, 1:07:56 PM

It also hurts that choice users tend to hit and run a lot, and Mence is weak to SR.

That said Specs is probably his best choice set simply because it is the least expected. Band is 100% outclassed by Chomp, Specs isn't outclassed by Latis completely because he gets Fire Blast, while they have to rely on HP fire. That said Latis are still overall better Specs users (Trick, Tbolt, no SR weakness, and higher SpA for Latios).

JSND · Mar 5th, 2011, 1:32:22 PM

All mence attack in specs is stronger than Ltios counterpart except the STAB.
In choice term no one can outclass mence even chomp since intimidate is such a great ability

Sajak · Mar 5th, 2011, 3:21:01 PM

Sally also gets Hydro Pump while neither Lati does (although I'm pretty sure their Surf just about as powerful).

UnhandledException · Mar 5th, 2011, 3:23:35 PM

Salamence has absolutely no reason to use hydro pump over fire blast(or even alongside it), while surf is one of the essential moves for the latis.

Sajak · Mar 5th, 2011, 3:38:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat UnhandledException

Salamence has absolutely no reason to use hydro pump over fire blast(or even alongside it), while surf is one of the essential moves for the latis.

I don't remember saying he should use it over Fire Blast, or anything for that matter.

UnhandledException · Mar 5th, 2011, 3:44:54 PM

I was just pointing out the fact that having Hydro Pump doesn't give him any sort of edge over his fellow dragons, thats all. I probably should have expressed myself better, though.

Sajak · Mar 5th, 2011, 3:57:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat UnhandledException

I was just pointing out the fact that having Hydro Pump doesn't give him any sort of edge over his fellow dragons, thats all. I probably should have expressed myself better, though.

It does take away an advantage other Dragons have over him though, and Hydro Pump is pretty powerful and useful for a Specs set, especially since it hits those ever present Sand teams for SE damage where none of his other options do on the special side of the spectrum.

Feb 25th, 2011, 12:27:40 AM	#277
JSND Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 877 Indonesia	yaa but To be honest the reason i stopped using salamence is not because of it sucks. It because that he fail to OHKO doryuuzu with fire blast. Yeah that was so disappointing that time. Now i want to try the mix DD> __________________ I use Deoxys-D before it was cool Yet i still use Torterra in OU

Feb 25th, 2011, 12:39:50 AM	#278
IcyMan28 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,793	Naive 24 SpA LO Fire Blast does 97% minimum to 6/0 Excadrill, a guaranteed OHKO with rocks. Far from disappointing, IMO. __________________ In-Game Name: Anthony FC: 3309 2165 3231 I use legal hacks.

Feb 25th, 2011, 12:49:50 AM	#279
LeviLamprey Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,205	And any neutral or +Sp. Atk natures mence with 252 EVs is a guaranteed OHKO without. __________________ CAP ASB Shenanigans Pikurei Forums (12:01:01) EmeraldOx: we can be clumsybuddies ;w;

Feb 25th, 2011, 1:17:51 AM	#280
JSND Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 877 Indonesia	sorry that was BP receiver adamant/jolly mence im talking about. Obviously i use lum berry. Yeah might use Mix DD later __________________ I use Deoxys-D before it was cool Yet i still use Torterra in OU

Feb 25th, 2011, 1:30:05 AM	#281
IcyMan28 Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,793	If you mean Mence as a Shell Break recipient, then it should be able to KO at +2 regardless of nature. __________________ In-Game Name: Anthony FC: 3309 2165 3231 I use legal hacks.

Feb 25th, 2011, 8:00:33 AM	#282
min min Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,017 MSPA'd.	So...is Adamant or Jolly the better nature for a Mix DDMence, and how many SAtk EVs are sufficient to be useful in average battles? __________________ avatar by yilx RMT: Team Trifecto (20:29:16) ±Porygon: Your rank in Wifi OU is 45/74104 [1531 points / 712 battles]!

Feb 25th, 2011, 8:16:58 AM	#283
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,246 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Neither, they reduce SpA. ._. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Feb 25th, 2011, 5:24:16 PM	#285
MtNiesen Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 30 somewhere in the Swiss Alps	/is glad that finally people are discusing the pokemon, not teiring does anyone have any legit sets that are, 'ya know, not the same old same old sala pwns everything sets? i want to use an untriditional mence on my next team

Feb 26th, 2011, 10:13:57 PM	#286
Gairyuki789 Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 124	There's only two problems I still have making a good Salamence. I've established that yes Dragon Dance, Outrage and Fire Blast are needed but what should the fourth move be? Brick Break, Stone Edge or something else? (given that Balloons will be involved Earthquake's not as useful anymore.) The other thing is, for anyone who's done random battles on BW, you know you can't take pokemon in holding the same items, so their lies the only other problem since I like to give both Salamence and Lucario(the SD kind) life orbs. Which of the two would be more suited for the orb?

Mar 5th, 2011, 12:27:54 AM	#289
JforJeff Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 16	So what would you guys say is the absolute best Mence set for this meta? You have to ask yourself DD or no DD. I think the answer is DD. If you're not wanting to dance you're probably better off using Garchomp. I understand that Mence has some good special attacker set options but I've tried the dracometeor/fireblast etc set and found it under-whelming. After you've decided if you want DD you have to decide on the nature. Jolly, adamant or a nature to maximize both of his attack stats. I ask this because I'm having trouble figuring out the exact set for me. I keep getting inconsistent results.

Mar 5th, 2011, 12:59:20 AM	#290
bludhoundz Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 78	I don't think Adamant is really a good option, due to the speed tier. Jolly either really, because it weakens Fire Blast, and without Fire Blast your coverage gets much worse (and let's face it - Fire Fang blows). Go Naive. I agree though Mixmence has been underwhelming. DD Mix or standard DD seem to be the best.

Mar 5th, 2011, 1:06:05 AM	#291
KokoaKiwi Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 751 Castelia.	What about a Scarf set? Mence@Choice Scarf 252 speed. Need help with the rest. Naive Nature ~Draco Meteor ~Earthquake ~Fire Blast ~Outrage / Hydro Pump / Stone Edge

Mar 5th, 2011, 1:17:19 AM	#292
JforJeff Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 16	I'm with Bludhoundz I think. DDmixmence Naive nature item? Life orb or maybe haban berry? - DD - Dclaw/Outrage - Earthquake - Fire Blast

Mar 5th, 2011, 1:07:56 PM	#294
bludhoundz Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 78	It also hurts that choice users tend to hit and run a lot, and Mence is weak to SR. That said Specs is probably his best choice set simply because it is the least expected. Band is 100% outclassed by Chomp, Specs isn't outclassed by Latis completely because he gets Fire Blast, while they have to rely on HP fire. That said Latis are still overall better Specs users (Trick, Tbolt, no SR weakness, and higher SpA for Latios).

Mar 5th, 2011, 1:32:22 PM	#295
JSND Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 877 Indonesia	All mence attack in specs is stronger than Ltios counterpart except the STAB. In choice term no one can outclass mence even chomp since intimidate is such a great ability __________________ I use Deoxys-D before it was cool Yet i still use Torterra in OU

Mar 5th, 2011, 3:21:01 PM	#296
Sajak Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 304	Sally also gets Hydro Pump while neither Lati does (although I'm pretty sure their Surf just about as powerful). __________________ Everything Wi-Fi: 3308-1096-6439. No Voice Chat.

Mar 5th, 2011, 3:23:35 PM	#297
UnhandledException Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 364 :P	Salamence has absolutely no reason to use hydro pump over fire blast(or even alongside it), while surf is one of the essential moves for the latis.

Mar 5th, 2011, 3:44:54 PM	#299
UnhandledException Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 364 :P	I was just pointing out the fact that having Hydro Pump doesn't give him any sort of edge over his fellow dragons, thats all. I probably should have expressed myself better, though.