PhD in Pokemon Studies (#1)

[taxi driver]

why not run white herb on cloyster instead of leftovers, it would help increase is defensive bulk instead of lower it.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat 6A9 Ace Matador

RP LO terakion GG might wanna swap shinborra for rankurusu cm bulky set

will try it out.

EDIT : I just remembered that Terakions tend to carry Stone Edge/ CC / EQ/ X-scissor. so that is rankurusu dead. I see if Cloyster can handle a CC to its face :S, doubt it.

DOUBLE EDIT :

...

---

Terakion @ Life Orb (252 EVs, +Nature, -1) Close Combat vs Cloyster (252/236 EVs, +Nature): 57.8 ~ 69% (176 ~ 210 HP)

This is assuming that they aren't a double dancer and that Gyarados managed to Intimidate him

Originally Posted by Fat badabing

Why adamant on scarfchomp? Jolly or naive would be more beneficial imo to outrun mence after a DD. Assuming its a revenge killer, you'll want all the speed you can get.

Changed to Jolly, dnt know why it wasn't already.

Originally Posted by Fat TransparentOpacity

No reason to be a bitch because of a little typing mistake.



You must have posted in the wrong thread because this guy hasn't rejected anything in a stubborn way. You're the one acting stubborn.

Anyways I would change Garchomp's nature to Jolly, so that it can outspeed other scarfed dragons other than Latios/Latias, and also so that you can switch in on something using Dragon Dance and still be able to outspeed it. Also I would try out Substitute over Taunt on Gyarados, just to see how it works. You don't see many phazers this gen, and against things that status or leech you can get up protection while also stopping them from crippling you. It also nice to use when the opponent is switching, because you don't have to predict the right move.

lol. thanks. Changed to Jolly. I will see how Sub goes but there are things that like to Whirlwind (skarm) so we'll see.

why not run white herb on cloyster instead of leftovers, it would help increase is defensive bulk instead of lower it.

I actually rarely SS. He's moves are crazy in strength that they can dispatch of Dragon s and Sandstorm abusers easily.

[IcyMan28]

I just remembered that Terakions tend to carry Stone Edge/ CC / EQ/ X-scissor. so that is rankurusu dead. I see if Cloyster can handle a CC to its face :S, doubt it.

No, most Terakion carry Close Combat / Stone Edge / Boosting Move 1 / (X-Scissor or Boosting Move 2).

At least with Reuniclus, you have a way to deal with RP Terakion or double dancers that choose to RP first.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

No, most Terakion carry Close Combat / Stone Edge / Boosting Move 1 / (X-Scissor or Boosting Move 2).

At least with Reuniclus, you have a way to deal with RP Terakion or double dancers that choose to RP first.

TBH the only Terakion's i've ever faced were CB/CS variants. Never seen a double dancing one that I recall.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat GTS

Idk if it has been mentioned yet, but Calm Mind on Shinbora seems to work much more effectively for me.

calm mind raises his sp A making him hit harder and sp D is covered with this, while shifting burns makes taking defensive blows easier.

I have tested this set out before and while it is good, it is still a tad to fragile on the physical side, even with burn. But it doesn't matter anymore, I have changed it for a Rankurusu.

[IcyMan28]

That Reuniclus set will fail miserably, losing to fighting-types, even. UnSTAB HP Dragon is much too weak, even with multiple boosts, and Reuniclus simply cannot run a mono-attacker set because it will be inevitably walled by something. This is the set you should run:

Reuniclus@Leftovers
Bold; 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA

Recover
Calm Mind
Psychic
Focus Blast

Without significant SpD investment, Tyranitar will lose to +1 Focus Blast while failing to OHKO with Crunch. Psychic is obligatory STAB. Yes, obligatory. Blissey fails to 5HKO with Seismic Toss (which you can Recover anyway) and Toxic does nothing to Reuniclus, while boosted Psychic will eventually 2HKO. Gengar is hit by Psychic and can't KO through boosted SpD.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

That Reuniclus set will fail miserably, losing to fighting-types, even. UnSTAB HP Dragon is much too weak, even with multiple boosts, and Reuniclus simply cannot run a mono-attacker set because it will be inevitably walled by something. This is the set you should run:

Reuniclus@Leftovers
Bold; 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA

Recover
Calm Mind
Psychic
Focus Blast

Without significant SpD investment, Tyranitar will lose to +1 Focus Blast while failing to OHKO with Crunch. Psychic is obligatory STAB. Yes, obligatory. Blissey fails to 5HKO with Seismic Toss (which you can Recover anyway) and Toxic does nothing to Reuniclus, while boosted Psychic will eventually 2HKO. Gengar is hit by Psychic and can't KO through boosted SpD.

Well I have actually tested both of these sets before and even a TR set and I find that my set works well on this team. It can actually handle Fighting types. Once it was a +6 Dory vs +6 me and in the end I won, so I don't know whether to change or not anymore. I'll definately do some damage calucaltions and see which I prefer. Thanks for the advice

[Eos]

Hi,

Great team first off!
I suggest you use a bulkier gyara set, because when you see scrafty (zuruzukin), you are going to have to switch in right away and dragon tail.
Otherwise, ScarfChomp as a lead usually doesn't work out too good. So i'd suggest just switching your lead to Cloyster maybe. I'll test this team out, and tell you how that works out if you want.
Oh, you also should be careful of weather teams. Maybe a rain dance team with kingdra after a few DD's would prob be able to sweep. Which is just one more reason for dragon tail on chomp.
Other than these suggestions, great team and I'm sure you'll have some good success with this.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat Eos

Hi,

Great team first off!
I suggest you use a bulkier gyara set, because when you see scrafty (zuruzukin), you are going to have to switch in right away and dragon tail.
Otherwise, ScarfChomp as a lead usually doesn't work out too good. So i'd suggest just switching your lead to Cloyster maybe. I'll test this team out, and tell you how that works out if you want.
Oh, you also should be careful of weather teams. Maybe a rain dance team with kingdra after a few DD's would prob be able to sweep. Which is just one more reason for dragon tail on chomp.
Other than these suggestions, great team and I'm sure you'll have some good success with this.

Okay, I am a tad confused. My gyarados doesn't have dragon tail O_O, ad Birijion can OHKO with Focus Blast. ScarfChomp isn't always my lead. It is most of the time though, but I play Wifi, meaning I can rearrange my team. You can test Cloyster and tell me how it goes.

After a few DD's Chomp can't outspeed or handle an attack O_O, so now I'm even more coonfused.

EDIT : I am currently testing both a CM latias and Cresselia over Rankurusu. The reason for both is that they offer the same thing, are all psychic and have incredible bulk plus a reliable form of recovery. The reason I'm trying to find a replacement is because Rankurusu just doesn't have the speed and often gets critted.

[YJiang]

Just a tiny note:

Lanturn also resists the electric/ice attacking combo.

[aussieman000]

Good team, I like it. Just commenting to point out that in regards to Gyarados, less stuff resists Water/Flying than Water/Rock.

Also, does the defensive Cloyster work well? Seems kinda futile, since unboosted Vacuum Wave from Lucario still OHKOs after rock or spikes damage, and most Mach Punchers will be able to at the very least 2HKO... So teams with double neutral or supereffective priority easily dispatch it. With only 352 speed it's also outsped by everything that can viably run a Choice Scarf, as well as a number of unboosted pokes.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat YJiang

Just a tiny note:

Lanturn also resists the electric/ice attacking combo.

I'll fix that soon, thanks.

Originally Posted by Fat aussieman000

Good team, I like it. Just commenting to point out that in regards to Gyarados, less stuff resists Water/Flying than Water/Rock.

Also, does the defensive Cloyster work well? Seems kinda futile, since unboosted Vacuum Wave from Lucario still OHKOs after rock or spikes damage, and most Mach Punchers will be able to at the very least 2HKO... So teams with double neutral or supereffective priority easily dispatch it. With only 352 speed it's also outsped by everything that can viably run a Choice Scarf, as well as a number of unboosted pokes.

I know that Water/Rock gives better coverage, but I choose Bounce for the added turn of lefties recovery :). In the end he is still just as able to sweep so it works fine by me. It also helps me with fighting pokemon, seeing as how I don't have a psychic or flying move.

As for Cloyster it can't take a special hit at all. It can handle physical Mach Punch's seeing as how most of the Pokemon that get Mach Punch get hit for SE with the moves I have e.g. breloom

EDIT : I am now testing Rotom-H over Cloyster. I decided to keep Rankurusu the way he is, seeing as how he can better handle physical threats.

[aussieman000]

I was actually saying Water/Flying gives better coverage. Rotom-W, Empoleon and Lanturn are the only pokes that resist it (well, apart from Steels/Electrics in the sun). Water/Rock has a whole lot more commonly used pokes that resist it.

I suppose you're right about Mach Punchers being a non-issue, as Gyarados can set up on them if Cloyster doesn't OHKO. I think Gyarados could do with a more physically bulky spread though - 168 Defence allows it to easily set up a Dragon Dance on +0/0 Conkeldurr that carry Stone Edge (Even with Rocks on the field), taking 15% maximum from an Intimidated Drain Punch as it switches in then 54% maximum from an Intimated Stone Edge ass it Dragon Dances. Bounce then cleanly OHKOs.

Rotom-H seems like an idea, but it doesn't bait setup opportunities for Gyarados quite as well with their numerous shared weaknesses and resistances... I'd like to suggest a change for Cloyster if you do keep it. Moving 88 EVs from Defence to Speed puts you at 198 Speed, enough to outrun +ve Base 130s after a Shell Smash. This basically allows you to out speed the entire unboosted meta.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat aussieman000

I was actually saying Water/Flying gives better coverage. Rotom-W, Empoleon and Lanturn are the only pokes that resist it (well, apart from Steels/Electrics in the sun). Water/Rock has a whole lot more commonly used pokes that resist it.

I suppose you're right about Mach Punchers being a non-issue, as Gyarados can set up on them if Cloyster doesn't OHKO. I think Gyarados could do with a more physically bulky spread though - 168 Defence allows it to easily set up a Dragon Dance on +0/0 Conkeldurr that carry Stone Edge (Even with Rocks on the field), taking 15% maximum from an Intimidated Drain Punch as it switches in then 54% maximum from an Intimated Stone Edge ass it Dragon Dances. Bounce then cleanly OHKOs.

Rotom-H seems like an idea, but it doesn't bait setup opportunities for Gyarados quite as well with their numerous shared weaknesses and resistances... I'd like to suggest a change for Cloyster if you do keep it. Moving 88 EVs from Defence to Speed puts you at 198 Speed, enough to outrun +ve Base 130s after a Shell Smash. This basically allows you to out speed the entire unboosted meta.

Where should I get the 168 for def for Gyara? Sounds good but I'm not sure where to get it from.

Rotom-H synergises with the team as a whole rather wel, but it doesn't set up opportunities for Gyara. I will test the 88 Ev's in speed because that does sound good.

Thanks

[Eos]

lol, i meant for you to try and switch to using a dragon tail chomp.
Ik you can switch leads. I also am aware of Birijion Focus Blast lol. I'm just saying that it may help to try it out.
hope that clears that up.
I also agree with 6A9, did that work ?

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat Eos

lol, i meant for you to try and switch to using a dragon tail chomp.
Ik you can switch leads. I also am aware of Birijion Focus Blast lol. I'm just saying that it may help to try it out.
hope that clears that up.
I also agree with 6A9, did that work ?

Dragon Tail makes little sense with a Choice Scarf, negating all that speed, so I think I'll stay as it is.

As for 6A9 I tried a Rankurusu and it wasn't as good, so in the end I took LK's advice and changed Cloyster to Bronzong.


Now as for this team. I think that it has had enough help from every one and I would like to thank everyone who helped me with this team, but it seems about time to retire this team and just let it sit here a collect dust :). I really dn't see how this team can improve anymore, seeing as how everyone's ideas have been stated. I have been working on another team with great sucess (peaking in the top #30) and I would like to post that team here aswell for more advice ^^. So thanks, and it has been a blast, but I now present you with my retired team!

[Eos]

I'm saying you should run something besides scarf, oh well. prob lefties, but its okay now

[SmileZ]

Cheers, Dkfoo.This is my favourite team of Gen V so far apart from LK's "Excellence of Excecution". Good luck with the new team.

[sliceofsweiss]

If gyarados is gone, you have a gaping weakness to Balloon heatran:

Heatran @ Balloon
EV's: Max Sp. Atk, Max Speed, 4 def
Timid/Modest (It outspeeds virizion @ +1)
-Dragon Pulse
-Flamethrower
-Flame Charge
-Explosion/something annoying as feces

Why you lose by pokemon:

Garchomp can't hit with earthquake, and if gyarados is gone, you don't exactly have a safe switch in.
Shinboraa: You cannot use psycho shift on heatran, and it will 2HKO you before you can even set up on it (one cosmic power at most, but it's still a 2HKO, as i've learned)
Virizion: If it's @ +1, you're not touching it.
Bronzong: A tad obvious there (Tricking choice band doesn't really do anything, just gets rid of balloon. But you're not even going to survive up to that point. You'll be dead.)
Magnezone: Magnezone is, and always will be, walled by heatran.

[Dezza Laa]

Originally Posted by Fat sliceofsweiss

If gyarados is gone, you have a gaping weakness to Balloon heatran:

Heatran @ Balloon
EV's: Max Sp. Atk, Max Speed, 4 def
Timid/Modest (It outspeeds virizion @ +1)
-Dragon Pulse
-Flamethrower
-Flame Charge
-Explosion/something annoying as feces

Why you lose by pokemon:

Garchomp can't hit with earthquake, and if gyarados is gone, you don't exactly have a safe switch in.
Shinboraa: You cannot use psycho shift on heatran, and it will 2HKO you before you can even set up on it (one cosmic power at most, but it's still a 2HKO, as i've learned)
Virizion: If it's @ +1, you're not touching it.
Bronzong: A tad obvious there (Tricking choice band doesn't really do anything, just gets rid of balloon. But you're not even going to survive up to that point. You'll be dead.)
Magnezone: Magnezone is, and always will be, walled by heatran.

Luckily I play my Gyarados well and never let him die unless he's deadweight :).
Also I think your undermning my teams ability to pop a balloon >:D. Shinboraa can pop then Garchomp can EQ.