Moody (Ubers Edition)

[locoghoul]

yawn

Latias was called "overcentralizing" in OU yet it wasn't #1 and the usage was less than 30% IRCC. Even then, it was enough to ban her from OU. Now, Kyogre has always been #1 in the uber usage (never dropping 40%) and it has never been accused of being "broken". A single ability only available by 2 pokes (not the greatest pokes either) is being banned because it's too broken? Gimme a break. At least check the usage of Octillery in the last two months and see if it even makes it to top 10 and then you can call it "overcentralized". The fact that a handful of noobs are using it with moderate success is enough for "good" players to become threatened enough to just ban it in the most elitist way ("I'm top 5, I make the rules" Wonder who they benefit with those rules). "OMG I have to include a Celebi with Perish Song or an Arceus with Perish Song otherwise I'm gonna bitch about it" You guys make me laugh.

Encore/Taunt, T-Spikes, Haze, Perish Song, even Psych Up (lol). I have lost to Octillery more than once before and the only thing that came out of those "unfair" battles was just me trying to counter it with a single moveslot. Not whining on the forums. If people would tell me that Octillery is the #3 pokemon used in the uber ladder then, yes, we would have to do something. But because this tier is managed the way OU is also managed, it is "being taken care of" by one or two players.

[ssbbm]

Please, how can inconsistent "easily backfire" to the user?
The most you do is lose one Pokemon (which admittedly is important), but in return, you gain a 14% chance (assuming you just blindly switch it in) to sweep the opponent's team.

This quote is basically my argument against Inconsistent:

That being said, the risk entailed is highly disproportional to the potential reward; thus, because it is so simple to use, and because it has such a huge payoff, it heavily waters down the skill of those with good risk management: anyone with even barely a grasp on the rudiments of risk management can abuse the risk properties of Inconsistent and win matches. And because abusing Inconsistent is based almost solely on risk management, therefore relying less on strategy, its success is also detrimental to strategic thinking. Note that while some level of strategy may be necessary to set up an Inconsistent sweep, the execution, the crux of Inconsistent abuse, is almost purely "luck"-based.

So in essence, because Inconsistent is a strategy that does not reward good play from either a strategic or risk management perspective, it should be banned.

[Plusle]

Originally Posted by Fat locoghoul

yawn

Latias was called "overcentralizing" in OU yet it wasn't #1 and the usage was less than 30% IRCC. Even then, it was enough to ban her from OU. Now, Kyogre has always been #1 in the uber usage (never dropping 40%) and it has never been accused of being "broken". A single ability only available by 2 pokes (not the greatest pokes either) is being banned because it's too broken? Gimme a break. At least check the usage of Octillery in the last two months and see if it even makes it to top 10 and then you can call it "overcentralized". The fact that a handful of noobs are using it with moderate success is enough for "good" players to become threatened enough to just ban it in the most elitist way ("I'm top 5, I make the rules" Wonder who they benefit with those rules). "OMG I have to include a Celebi with Perish Song or an Arceus with Perish Song otherwise I'm gonna bitch about it" You guys make me laugh.

Encore/Taunt, T-Spikes, Haze, Perish Song, even Psych Up (lol). I have lost to Octillery more than once before and the only thing that came out of those "unfair" battles was just me trying to counter it with a single moveslot. Not whining on the forums. If people would tell me that Octillery is the #3 pokemon used in the uber ladder then, yes, we would have to do something. But because this tier is managed the way OU is also managed, it is "being taken care of" by one or two players.

IMO inconsistent is very centralising. More people used inconsistent Smeargle then Giratina, Blissey or Scizor. It's on roughly 1 in every 20 teams.
In wifi ubers without Inconsistent , smeargle is at 6x less usage.

[j99ubers]

Tbh it doesnt matter how overcentralising it is, its about the power level and how luck based it makes the game. If evasion was unbanned it wouldnt be on every team, because of players whod rather play with a regualr non-hax based team, but the counters you'd need to carry for it would be very obscure. This is the exact way Inconsistent works, most good players prefer not to run it, in favour of running a skill-based team, but it is still very difficult to counter, especially if any good player decides to use.

[ZetoTarken]

Originally Posted by Fat locoghoul

Encore/Taunt, T-Spikes, Haze, Perish Song, even Psych Up (lol).

Encore/Taunt can MISS which makes them quite unreliable and they doesn't actually stop Inconsistent since you can just wait the 3 turns getting more boosts. T-Spikes isn't reliable since Inconsistent teams carry absorbers/spinners and its obvious if T-Spikes are going to come out(Does your team have Forry or Tentacruel? If yes there will be toxic spikes). This leaves Haze, Perish Song, and Psych Up and Inconsistent being as it is, you're forced to keep that poke alive. Have you looked at the Haze users? All of them are quite bad sans maybe Quagsire or Tentacruel and even then they can't actually threaten back meaning the inconsistent poke will probably beat them 1 on 1. Perish Song is only worth using on Arceus but that forces you to run a defensive Arceus. That's not a moveslot change, that's a complete change to the moveset. And Psych Up is pretty bad outside of this niche roll and really cuts coverage. The only poke that can use Psych Up as an effective 'counter' to inconsistent without crippling itself in someway is Mewtwo if you use it over Calm Mind.

[TM13IceBeam]

Whirlwind and Roar are not included...

although they can also miss(how the fuck do you evade Roar, I have no idea)

[Little Battler]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Whirlwind and Roar are not included...

although they can also miss(how the fuck do you evade Roar, I have no idea)

close your ears

[TM13IceBeam]

that means even at -6 evasion i can still evade roar

thanks bud

[j99ubers]

OK, so Inconsistent is banned on the Beta Server now in Ubers, just to let you all know. Hopefully Smogon will soon follow.

[calze6]

I'd like inconsistent to go through the same process as LC and Suspect testings though just for the "fairness".

[Rayquaza_]

Inconsistent in ubers is hardly gamebreaking when everything and their mom carries Aura Sphere.

[jonathanrp]

Which is not true at all.
Mewtwo
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina

Hardly "everything and their mother'

Plus, it's not exactly a stellar move

[Focus]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Inconsistent in ubers is hardly gamebreaking when everything and their mom carries Aura Sphere.

Aura Sphere just does not cut it as an Inconsistent counter. Smeargle will eventually just BP away before it dies (unless it gets really unlucky with the Speed stat), Bibarel is almost nowhere to be seen, and Octillery can either:

1. make subs that aren't broken by Aura Sphere (with SpD boosts)
2. attack directly (with sufficient offensive boosts)
3. inflict Toxic, (except to Dialga, of course)
4. switch out and try again later

All of these can screw an offensive pokémon over pretty badly, especially considering the Inconsistent user will still live to tell the tale.

[calze6]

Besides, the main sets of each don't normally run aura sphere.

[oasis]

ugh Inconsistent is THAT broken.

[Ruscour]

Suspect test is the best way to go about it. To all the people who go "ZOMG ITS UBERS NOTHING SHOULD BE BANNED", it's a game. The point of a game is to have fun. Inconsistent makes the game the exact opposite. Plus there's the whole brokenly retarded thing.

[Rayquaza_]

Originally Posted by Fat Ruscour

Suspect test is the best way to go about it. To all the people who go "ZOMG ITS UBERS NOTHING SHOULD BE BANNED", it's a game. The point of a game is to have fun. Inconsistent makes the game the exact opposite. Plus there's the whole brokenly retarded thing.

Fun is subjective. I had fun running and facing Inconsistent teams when it was allowed in OU. Please don't use blatantly subjective criteria when it comes to things like this.

What we're trying to say is that the Uber tier is capable of dealing with Inconsistent more effectively than the OU tier (which wasn't that hard to deal with in the first place, but let's not change the subject), which is why Inconsistent deserves to be extensively tested up there.

[TM13IceBeam]

It's called Moody now. (recalls the 'Moody Bidoof' joke)

Aura Sphere is not really common in ubers anyway since Dialga/Palkia/Giratina rarely runs it. Mewtwo may occasionally run it, if its running choice(since non-choiced Mewtwo has to choose between Aura Sphere, Thunder, Flamethrower or Shadow Ball for the third move), but choice sets face competition with Trick anyway. Mew has better things to do than Aura Sphere(read: Rock Polish, Dual Screens, etc) and Raikou isn't even common in Ubers(much less an extremely odd choice for a uber).

All Smeargle needs is a Speed or Evasion boost from Moody, in order to allow him to Spore some shit and Baton Pass away.

[ZetoTarken]

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

What we're trying to say is that the Uber tier is capable of dealing with Inconsistent more effectively than the OU tier

You're pretty much the only one who's saying that it...

[calze6]

It is, but it still exceptionally hard to deal with it.

[jonathanrp]

Ubers can not deal with it better. An evasion boost in ubers is the same as an evasion boost in OU. Moody (god I hate that name) is probably MORE threatening in ubers, as you now have a ton of massive powerhouses that would love an evasion boost, expecially considering all the inaccurate moves in ubers (blue flare, lightning strike, seed flare, ect).
get smeargle to baton pass those boosts to a swords dance arceus or groudon. you're basically screwed, no questions asked.

[Farewell]

Have a Pokemon with HAZE, or Manaphy with Heart Swap.

[jacktoto7497]

Ubers is not supposed to be centralized. It should not be banned, the only pokemon who can have the ablility stink. This is my counter to inconsistent. Switch to a choice pokemon or revenge killer or something of the sort and use a move and guess what. It KO's. We should try to ban as little as possible from ubers and inconsistent is hardly ever used and is not that effective period.

[Rayquaza_]

Originally Posted by Fat jacktoto7497

Ubers is not supposed to be centralized. It should not be banned, the only pokemon who can have the ablility stink. This is my counter to inconsistent. Switch to a choice pokemon or revenge killer or something of the sort and use a move and guess what. It KO's. We should try to ban as little as possible from ubers and inconsistent is hardly ever used and is not that effective period.

Kyogre begs to differ.

[calze6]

Originally Posted by Fat hhjj

Have a Pokemon with HAZE, or Manaphy with Heart Swap.

Which just proves of the obscurity required to check inconsistent.