Game Mechanic Changes That Will Be Important To VGC '11

[ΩDonut]

Originally Posted by Fat Showsni

Wait, so if I'm against Pokémon A and B, and B uses Quick Guard, I can Feint Pokémon A and then hit B with Mach Punch?

Nope. Quick Guard blocks Feint entirely, since it's a priority move.

Hmm. Actually, that seems someone suspect now, since the same post says Feint doesn't interact with Wide Guard. Maybe it should be retested.

[poccil]

OmegaDonut:

I was unaware of the post you linked to, which was made in October 2010. I made the tests with Feint, Wide Guard, and Quick Guard just about a day ago. Consistent with my testing, I updated my description for Feint as shown below:

Ignores effect of Protect, Detect, Wide Guard, and Quick Guard if opponent is an opposing Pokemon of the user. If this attack is successful and opponent is an opposing Pokemon of the user, attacks by non-users this round are not prevented by the opponent's Protect or Detect effect, or by the Wide Guard or Quick Guard effect on the opponent's side. Priority level 2.

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Originally Posted by Fat poccil

drcossack:

My own tests show that Feint prevents not only Wide Guard's effect, but also Quick Guard's effect, both when the opponent or its partner used either move. This behavior, for example, enables such combos as Feint + Bullet Punch.

My tests show exactly the opposite. Quick Guard blocks Feint and any priority moves used after Feint.

EDIT: I've tried using Feint on both the actual user of Quick Guard and on another Pokemon on the team. Quick Guard blocks both and neither breaks Quick Guard.

Test #1:

Riolu, Escavalier, Basculin vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

Escavalier uses Quick Guard
Riolu uses Feint on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

Test #2:

Riolu, Basculin, Escavalier vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

Escavalier uses Quick Guard
Riolu uses Feint on Basculin, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

EDIT: Well, I've found one source of the discrepancy. I tried an Infrared Double Battle with Escavalier on one side and Riolu and Basculin on the other. In this case, Riolu does break through Quick Guard. The natural assumption is that this happens because the Quick Guard user and Feint user are on opposite teams, as poccil says. Although it's worth noting that Feint will break through an ally's Protect.

EDIT: Upon further testing, it appears that Feint will also not break Wide Guard when used on an ally. It'll do damage, of course, since Wide Guard doesn't block Feint, but it won't break the Wide Guard effect.

So, to sum up, it appears that Feint will remove the effects of Feint and Wide Guard if and only if the Feint is used on an opponent. This makes sense, since Wide Guard and Quick Guard throw up barriers between the sides of the field.

[mudkipmaster]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMaskedNitpicker

My tests show exactly the opposite. Quick Guard blocks Feint and any priority moves used after Feint.

EDIT: I've tried using Feint on both the actual user of Quick Guard and on another Pokemon on the team. Quick Guard blocks both and neither breaks Quick Guard.

Test #1:

Riolu, Escavalier, Basculin vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

Escavalier uses Quick Guard
Riolu uses Feint on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

Test #2:

Riolu, Basculin, Escavalier vs. Simisear, Simipour, Simisage

Escavalier uses Quick Guard
Riolu uses Feint on Basculin, but it's blocked by Quick Guard
Basculin uses Aqua Jet on Escavalier, but it's blocked by Quick Guard

EDIT: Well, I've found one source of the discrepancy. I tried an Infrared Double Battle with Escavalier on one side and Riolu and Basculin on the other. In this case, Riolu does break through Quick Guard. The natural assumption is that this happens because the Quick Guard user and Feint user are on opposite teams, as poccil says. Although it's worth noting that Feint will break through an ally's Protect.

EDIT: Upon further testing, it appears that Feint will also not break Wide Guard when used on an ally. It'll do damage, of course, since Wide Guard doesn't block Feint, but it won't break the Wide Guard effect.

So, to sum up, it appears that Feint will remove the effects of Feint and Wide Guard if and only if the Feint is used on an opponent. This makes sense, since Wide Guard and Quick Guard throw up barriers between the sides of the field.

Nice deduction Sherlock. :P

[LonelyNess]

Originally Posted by Fat Human

Yeah, I remember that, we were both part of it haha.
I mean that if Rough Skin KOs their pokemon the person who had the ability Rough Skin wins.

Wrong, the person who killed the Rough Skin Pokemon wins.

Basically, they're using a "who died first" rule. In this situation, the rough skin Pokemon is struck with a killing blow, dies, then deals recoil to the attacking Pokemon, killing it. The Rough Skin Pokemon "died first", so the player attacking it wins.

It's the same philosophy with Life Orb and Double-Edge, you deal the damage (killing the opponent), then you take the recoil (killing yourself). They "died first" (the damage comes before the recoil), so you win if you're the LO / Double-Edge user.

Anyone who uses Explosion knows that it drops your HP to zero, THEN attacks. So in essence it's the reverse of the above. You kill yourself, then do damage to the opponent. You died "first", so you lose.

If you want to know who wins in a recoil scenario, just remember to ask yourself "who died first??"

[drug_duck]

So I thought about a strategy yesterday and did some tests on it and found something out. Let me lay out the strategy first to have an easier understanding on what has changed.

I wanted to paralyse my own Reuniclus with a priority Thunder Wave from Thundurus. That way I make it slower than the opponent's Amoongus while getting a status immunity to play around Spore and being faster in the opponent's Trick Room. Now I checked out Smogon's description on Magic Guard for Gen 4. It clearly says the following:
"This Pokemon can be paralyzed, and its Speed will be reduced as for any other Pokemon, but it will never be fully paralyzed."

I now wanted to check on my actual B/W game if it still works that way and fair enough, it doesn't! Your Magic Guard user can now be fully paralysed. Just a minor change actually but since Reuniclus is used often in VGC this is an important change.

[Wichu]

It was confirmed that Magic Guard users could be fully paralysed way back (soon after the Japanese release). Toxic could work instead (though the lower accuracy is a bit of a letdown).

[peadawg14]

When Flame Burst is used one one of your pokemon, and it also hits on with Flash Fire, Flash Fire isn't activated.

I.E.
I have Chandelure and Cottonee out. Cottonee is hit with Flame Burst. Chandelure is also hit and damaged.

Sucks...

[SupremeDirt]

That's because it's "recoil-type" damage.