Tomohawk Playtesting

Rising_Dusk · May 3rd, 2011, 10:35:59 PM

Tomohawk is live on the Smogon University PO Server!

The inaugural battle was fought between our TL, reachzero, and Rising_Dusk, the ATL. The battle started off with reach getting up hazards early, and then fighting a struggle between checking Latios and Quagsire. Eventually, though, Rising_Dusk's Tomohawk got in a crucial Rapid Spin that gave him a lot more leeway to eventually come out on top! reachzero attempted a last ditch Dragonite assault, but it wasn't enough for the combined might of Rising_Dusk's remaining team members, who went on to secure Rising_Dusk the win 4-0. Good game to both players!

Log

So let's get on with the playtest!

Playtesting will last 2 weeks from this post (give or take a few hours), and you all know the drill. The highest ranking player in the playtest gets a custom title, CAP1 Playtest Champion, and recognition on the CAP website entry for Tomohawk! If you want an idea of what Tomohawk can do, check out the preliminary analysis here. If you can't figure out how to install the server update to play Tomohawk, check out the connection guide here.

This thread will serve as the headquarters for all playtesting results and comments. If you post battle logs or long excerpts, please use hide or code tags so they don't flood the thread. If you have cool ideas you want to discuss about Tomohawk in battle, or anything about him, really, then post it here!

Most of all, let's have fun playing the first CAP of the new generation! Huzzah!

SgtWoodsy · May 3rd, 2011, 10:39:01 PM

Tomohawk @ Leftovers
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
- Aura Sphere
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Roost

someone once said that tomohawk would be "bad on a rain team". you shouldn't believe everything that's said on the internet.

Destiny Warrior · May 3rd, 2011, 10:42:46 PM

~~It's hare-sy, Rabbiting_Dusk!~~

Let's see what Thawk can do!

Aerodactyl Legend · May 3rd, 2011, 10:59:03 PM

Good job you two. Was Tomohawk fun to use?

Rising_Dusk · May 3rd, 2011, 11:01:30 PM

It was a blast! We both were using probably the same Tomohawk set, amazingly, and it was really tense and fun! reach's a spectacular player, and I was honored to have him as my opponent. It was great fun and I hope to run into him again on the ladder sometime! ;)

**capefeather** · May 3rd, 2011, 11:11:39 PM

I'm warier than I was last generation about giving the guy who happens to have the #1 rating a name on the CAP site as if said person were more of a contributor to the playtest than others were. But I don't think that I'll ever get the right timing to have this go through, so I'll just mention it here in passing.

On a lighter note, Maybe I'm a Lion is such a fitting song for this battle and this playtest in general :P

MofoAmbulance · May 4th, 2011, 8:32:37 AM

Tomohawk @Leftovers
Prankster
Modest (+spa, -atk)
252 HP, 40 Def, 88 SpA, 120 SpD, 8 Spe

-Roost
-Taunt
-Aura Sphere
-Air Slash

An absolute force to be reckoned with. Becomes as bulky as specially defensive Conkeldurr with less EV investment (But less powerful obviously), a Modest nature in order to be able to dish out some pain, and 8 EVs invested in Speed in order to outspeed other Prankster sets (which will either be running 0 or 4 spe EVs) and Taunt them, ruining their strategy, and proceed to take them out with Air Slash. Has worked an absolute charm so far. Priority Roost and Taunt work wonders against stall, too. Beats Skarmory 1 on 1.

I'm going to have to test this set a bit more, but it's working great. Brutalises opponent's non-attacking (or boosting) momentum and hits back hard.

~~fuck you all~~ · May 4th, 2011, 10:11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MofoAmbulance

Becomes as bulky as specially defensive Conkeldurr with less EV investment (But less powerful obviously), a Modest nature in order to be able to dish out some pain, and 8 EVs invested in Speed in order to outspeed other Prankster sets (which will either be running 0 or 4 spe EVs) and Taunt them, ruining their strategy, and proceed to take them out with Air Slash.

Speeeeed Creeeeeep

NijaSkills · May 4th, 2011, 10:30:04 PM

Is blaziken not uber in CAP? I just encountered one in a battle.
Here's the log:

...

Captain · May 5th, 2011, 12:48:08 AM

It isn't, apparently this has to do with "testing Tomohawk in the metagame it was conceived."

Rising_Dusk · May 5th, 2011, 1:52:24 AM

So far as I am aware, CAPs are designed for the metagame they were started within. Lots of discussion and development happened with Tomohawk before Blaziken was banned, so it seems apparent to me that it should continue in such a manner. For that reason, I didn't ban Blaziken from the playtest ladder. That said, there's really no official ruling for metagame shifts in the middle of a CAP project, so the moderators could convene and if called for, I could ban Blaziken from the ladder.

Sambobz · May 5th, 2011, 1:24:08 PM

tomo actually keeps blaziken in check pretty well, it is still a beast though.

Business Casual · May 5th, 2011, 8:13:35 PM

So, I'm currently sitting at #1 on the CAP playtest ladder, and all I can say is that Tomohawk is so fucking good with rain. Hurricane is one of the best moves in the game.

Raikaria · May 6th, 2011, 2:20:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Business Casual

So, I'm currently sitting at #1 on the CAP playtest ladder, and all I can say is that Tomohawk is so fucking good with rain. Hurricane is one of the best moves in the game.

Which, if it is the case, means we have failed to fufill the concept, and just made a sweeper with Priority Taunt and Roost.

Tomahawk's concept was mometum, not sweeping, after all, and we even went towards a more defensive mometum.

Anyway, I've not been able to play yet, but when I can, I'll be seeing if my inhibitions about BulkUpPass were right.

SgtWoodsy · May 6th, 2011, 3:26:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

Which, if it is the case, means we have failed to fufill the concept, and just made a sweeper with Priority Taunt and Roost.

You would think people would realise that a Pokémon with these kinds of stats and a more powerful Hurricane than Dragonite - who is a really good rain sweeper - would therefore make Tomohawk a bulky rain sweeper.

Prankster is just the cherry on top, really.

Lou Cypher · May 6th, 2011, 8:16:25 AM

From my meager playtesting so far, I find Prankster Memento to be too good. Everything else about the Hawk seems to be fine, but Prankster Memento enables too much smashpassing.

MofoAmbulance · May 6th, 2011, 9:47:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

Which, if it is the case, means we have failed to fufill the concept, and just made a sweeper with Priority Taunt and Roost.

Tomahawk's concept was mometum, not sweeping, after all, and we even went towards a more defensive mometum.

Anyway, I've not been able to play yet, but when I can, I'll be seeing if my inhibitions about BulkUpPass were right.

Momentum is still a very ambiguous thing, and you could say that sweeping holds momentum for the rest of the team. It can function as a lot of different versions; Tomohawk is great because you never know what you're gonna be getting when you fight it. It could be support-sweeper-spinner-whatever.
In any case, I'd say that Tomohawk in rain, while good, is not AS good as Tornadus, which has a more powerful and faster Hurricane. As a rain sweeper, Tornadus outclasses it, unless you're looking for a bulky sweep.

**capefeather** · May 6th, 2011, 10:15:59 AM

Why do people think that the ability to sweep with a certain set automatically disqualifies Tomohawk from its concept? If anything, the added versatility BENEFITS the concept. Either claim that the rain sweeper obsoletes the other sets that Tomohawk can run or don't claim anything at all.

Business Casual · May 6th, 2011, 2:22:23 PM

Tomohawk still can't really sweep, even with hurricane. I've seen him being more useful by regaining lost momentum with priority substitute and then taking out key threats with hurricane or aura sphere.

Lou Cypher · May 6th, 2011, 3:35:28 PM

So yeah, maybe because I'm not really part of the CAP crew my opinion may seem less valid but...I made a team built around Tomohawk, Gorebyss, Wobbuffet and a few sweepers who heavily profit from Shell Smash...and just having that tossed together, I haven't lost a single game yet and advanced to the Nr. 3 spot on the ladder in no time (too few matches available to go on to the top for now). Priority Memento is just silly, I'll have to say that again.

Rising_Dusk · May 6th, 2011, 4:04:40 PM

I don't think that means too much, considering that Whimsicott has always had priority Memento. The only real difference is that Whimsicott has Light Screen while Tomohawk has Reflect (and SR, which is cool). Whimsicott has other cool tricks like Encore, though, so I think it's pretty fair to use either.

I've gotten to #5 on the ladder using Tomohawk in like 20 different ways just to try different tactics. The ladder is still young, so I won't start claiming much yet. Suffice to say that I like Intimidate Tomohawk a lot more than Prankster.

**Korski** · May 6th, 2011, 7:14:50 PM

Yes, the ladder has been pretty sparse these past few days, but it'll pick up as the deadline approaches and if and when the UU fervor dies down a bit.

Rain probably constitutes 2/3 of teams right now as everyone and their mother seems to be chomping at the bit to plow Hurricane Tomohawk through opponents. I've found excellent responses to be SpD Jirachi with Wish and CM/Recover/Roar/DPulse Latias, who both coincidentally handle Reuniclus expertly as well. Watch out for Taunt on Tomohawk, although Hurricane versions seem to be running Sub/Roost, so they're much easier to handle. Another probable reason Rain is popular is because just about everything on a standard Rain team threatens Tomohawk significantly except for Ferrothorn.

The most effective sets I've been seeing have been Substitute/Baton Pass, Rapid Spin, and Toxic Stall, in that order. The SubPass set (@Prankster) is basically what the concept called for entirely, and Tomohawk has just the right amount of bulk to pull it off and get some incredibly dangerous threats into battle unscathed and often with the Sub still intact, like Garchomp, Excadrill, or Cloyster. This list goes on and on. I've been using Rapid Spin most recently on a stall team and it's really effective. Being immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes and switching into Ferrothorn with almost no repercussions ever is a huge boon and gives my team a lot more freedom to move around. Finally, the Toxic Stall set is extremely annoying to face if you don't have a bulky Steel-type with recovery or something with Rest, Aromatherapy, or Taunt (i.e. SpD Jirachi, SD Scizor, RestTalk Gyarados, AromaBlissey, Thundurus), especially because the set has no real room for Taunt and these Pokes can simply outstall, wear down, or set up on Tomohawk. The best thing about this set at the moment is its surprise factor, as I think only one or two people are using it currently.

This may all change, of course, once there is an actual crop of players on the ladder and people (myself included) stop counterteaming the few other players out there.

Griffen78 · May 7th, 2011, 1:14:07 AM

I wanna dump a set here that has worked wonders for me.

Nature: modest
Ability: intimidate

Evs:
hp: 255
S.atk: 255

moves:
Yawn
Aura sphere
Air slash
Work up

a bulky sweeper :D

And I have found that a sashed quiver dance passing Venomoth is a great partner for it.

And this relativly new user named Slapstick would like me to mention that he was the one who mainly helped me to test and make this set </shout out>

CaptaiN was responsible for the change in defensive stats. it used to be 55/100/100, but he calc'd that 255 hp would be better spent evs.

kingdra22 · May 7th, 2011, 5:54:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Griffen78

I wanna dump a set here that has worked wonders for me.

Nature: modest
Ability: intimidate

Evs:
hp: 255
S.atk: 255

moves:
Yawn
Aura sphere
Air slash
Work up

a bulky sweeper :D

And I have found that a sashed quiver dance passing Venomoth is a great partner for it.

And this relativly new user named Slapstick would like me to mention that he was the one who mainly helped me to test and make this set </shout out>

CaptaiN was responsible for the change in defensive stats. it used to be 55/100/100, but he calc'd that 255 hp would be better spent evs.

I don't get what's going on in your EV spread. AT ALL.

Griffen78 · May 7th, 2011, 10:47:15 AM

255 hp is more effective at over all bulk then throwing it around into other stats. and max s.atk because he is a sweeper, thus: bulky sweeper

May 3rd, 2011, 10:42:46 PM	#3
Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,043 Location: Andromeda Galaxy	~~It's hare-sy, Rabbiting_Dusk!~~ Let's see what Thawk can do! __________________ CAP ASB and Battle Arcade

May 3rd, 2011, 11:11:39 PM	#6
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,613 especially internet pirates	I'm warier than I was last generation about giving the guy who happens to have the #1 rating a name on the CAP site as if said person were more of a contributor to the playtest than others were. But I don't think that I'll ever get the right timing to have this go through, so I'll just mention it here in passing. On a lighter note, Maybe I'm a Lion is such a fitting song for this battle and this playtest in general :P __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason <DetroitLolcat> I AM AROUSED BY BIMETALLIC CURRENCY!

May 4th, 2011, 8:32:37 AM	#7
MofoAmbulance Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 289	Tomohawk @Leftovers Prankster Modest (+spa, -atk) 252 HP, 40 Def, 88 SpA, 120 SpD, 8 Spe -Roost -Taunt -Aura Sphere -Air Slash An absolute force to be reckoned with. Becomes as bulky as specially defensive Conkeldurr with less EV investment (But less powerful obviously), a Modest nature in order to be able to dish out some pain, and 8 EVs invested in Speed in order to outspeed other Prankster sets (which will either be running 0 or 4 spe EVs) and Taunt them, ruining their strategy, and proceed to take them out with Air Slash. Has worked an absolute charm so far. Priority Roost and Taunt work wonders against stall, too. Beats Skarmory 1 on 1. I'm going to have to test this set a bit more, but it's working great. Brutalises opponent's non-attacking (or boosting) momentum and hits back hard. Last edited by MofoAmbulance; May 4th, 2011 at 11:21:48 AM.

May 4th, 2011, 10:30:04 PM	#9
NijaSkills Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 244	Is blaziken not uber in CAP? I just encountered one in a battle. Here's the log: ... Battle between NijaSkills and Antonv1p started! Tier: CAP Playtest Variation: +42, -37 Rule: Rated Rule: Sleep Clause Rule: Species Clause Rule: Wifi Battle Antonv1p sent out Donphan! NijaSkills sent out Gengar! Start of turn 1 Gengar used Substitute! Gengar made a substitute! The foe's Donphan used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around NijaSkills's team! Gengar restored a little HP using its Leftovers! NijaSkills: wait, blaze isn't uber in CAP? Antonv1p: blasiken Antonv1p: is not legendary NijaSkills: it is uber though Antonv1p: UBER fuck u Antonv1p: UBER? Antonv1p: wtf? Start of turn 2 The foe's Donphan used Ice Shard! Gengar's substitute took the damage! Gengar used Shadow Ball! The foe's Donphan lost 63% of its health! Gengar restored a little HP using its Leftovers! The foe's Donphan restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 3 Antonv1p called Donphan back! Antonv1p sent out Togekiss! Gengar used Shadow Ball! It had no effect! Gengar restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 4 Gengar used Focus Blast! The attack of Gengar missed! The foe's Togekiss used AncientPower! Gengar's substitute faded! The foe's Togekiss's Attack rose! The foe's Togekiss's Defense rose! The foe's Togekiss's Sp. Att. rose! The foe's Togekiss's Sp. Def. rose! The foe's Togekiss's Speed rose! Gengar restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 5 The foe's Togekiss used Air Slash! The attack of the foe's Togekiss missed! Gengar used Disable! The foe's Togekiss's Air Slash was disabled! Gengar restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 6 NijaSkills called Gengar back! NijaSkills sent out Nattorei! (Ferrothorn) Pointed stones dug into Nattorei! The foe's Togekiss used AncientPower! It's not very effective... Nattorei lost 31 HP! (8% of its health) Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 7 The foe's Togekiss used Silver Wind! Nattorei lost 66 HP! (18% of its health) Nattorei used Leech Seed! The foe's Togekiss was seeded! The foe's Togekiss's health is sapped by leech seed. Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 8 The foe's Togekiss used Silver Wind! Nattorei lost 66 HP! (18% of its health) Nattorei used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around Antonv1p's team! The foe's Togekiss's health is sapped by leech seed. Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 9 The foe's Togekiss used Silver Wind! Nattorei lost 70 HP! (19% of its health) Nattorei used Gyro Ball! The foe's Togekiss lost 29% of its health! The foe's Togekiss's health is sapped by leech seed. Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 10 Antonv1p called Togekiss back! Antonv1p sent out Blaziken! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Blaziken! Nattorei used Gyro Ball! It's not very effective... The foe's Blaziken lost 36% of its health! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 11 NijaSkills called Nattorei back! NijaSkills sent out Starmie! Pointed stones dug into Starmie! The foe's Blaziken used Swords Dance! The foe's Blaziken's Attack sharply rose! The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed! The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose! Start of turn 12 The foe's Blaziken used Hi Jump Kick! It's not very effective... Starmie lost 230 HP! (87% of its health) Starmie fainted! The foe's Blaziken's Speed Boost increases its speed! The foe's Blaziken's Speed rose! NijaSkills sent out Tomohawk! Pointed stones dug into Tomohawk! Tomohawk intimidates the foe's Blaziken! The foe's Blaziken's Attack fell! Start of turn 13 The foe's Blaziken used Fire Punch! Tomohawk lost 219 HP! (52% of its health) Tomohawk used Air Slash! It's super effective! The foe's Blaziken lost 50% of its health! The foe's Blaziken fainted! Tomohawk restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Antonv1p sent out Azumarill! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Azumarill! Start of turn 14 NijaSkills called Tomohawk back! NijaSkills sent out Nattorei! (Ferrothorn) Pointed stones dug into Nattorei! The foe's Azumarill used Aqua Jet! It's not very effective... Nattorei lost 28 HP! (7% of its health) Nattorei's Iron Barbs hurts the foe's Azumarill The foe's Azumarill restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 15 The foe's Azumarill used Substitute! The foe's Azumarill made a substitute! Nattorei used Leech Seed! The foe's Azumarill's substitute blocked Leech Seed! The foe's Azumarill restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 16 The foe's Azumarill used Ice Punch! A critical hit! Nattorei lost 162 HP! (46% of its health) Nattorei's Iron Barbs hurts the foe's Azumarill Nattorei used Power Whip! It's super effective! The foe's Azumarill's substitute faded! The foe's Azumarill restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 17 The foe's Azumarill used Ice Punch! Nattorei lost 77 HP! (21% of its health) Nattorei's Iron Barbs hurts the foe's Azumarill Nattorei used Power Whip! It's super effective! The foe's Azumarill lost 44% of its health! The foe's Azumarill fainted! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Antonv1p sent out Togekiss! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Togekiss! Start of turn 18 The foe's Togekiss used Air Slash! Nattorei lost 79 HP! (22% of its health) Nattorei used Leech Seed! The foe's Togekiss was seeded! The foe's Togekiss's health is sapped by leech seed. The foe's Togekiss fainted! Nattorei restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Antonv1p sent out Weezing! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Weezing! Start of turn 19 The foe's Weezing used Flamethrower! It's super effective! Nattorei lost 121 HP! (34% of its health) Nattorei fainted! NijaSkills sent out Tomohawk! Pointed stones dug into Tomohawk! Tomohawk intimidates the foe's Weezing! The foe's Weezing's Attack fell! Start of turn 20 Tomohawk used Roost! Tomohawk landed on the ground! Tomohawk regained health! The foe's Weezing used Pain Split! The battlers shared their pain! Tomohawk restored a little HP using its Leftovers! __________________ White FC: 1850 1893 8931 I use legal, obtainable hacks I might upload the battle to YouTube (username N1jaSk1lls). Tell me if you don't want me to. Last edited by NijaSkills; May 4th, 2011 at 10:32:14 PM. Reason: added log

May 5th, 2011, 12:48:08 AM	#10
Captain Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 268 Hyperbeem is my lover, but I have ADDICTIONS.	It isn't, apparently this has to do with "testing Tomohawk in the metagame it was conceived." __________________ underground mod/test server: http://captain.psim.us/ Previous owner of 5th gen Streetmons server. Previous owner of 4th gen modded server.

May 3rd, 2011, 10:39:01 PM	#2
SgtWoodsy Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,129	Tomohawk @ Leftovers Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk) Ability: Prankster EVs: 252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe - Aura Sphere - Hurricane - Substitute - Roost someone once said that tomohawk would be "bad on a rain team". you shouldn't believe everything that's said on the internet.

May 3rd, 2011, 10:59:03 PM	#4
Aerodactyl Legend Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 968 Is inside an enemy AC130 above.	Good job you two. Was Tomohawk fun to use?

May 3rd, 2011, 11:01:30 PM	#5
Rising_Dusk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,742	It was a blast! We both were using probably the same Tomohawk set, amazingly, and it was really tense and fun! reach's a spectacular player, and I was honored to have him as my opponent. It was great fun and I hope to run into him again on the ladder sometime! ;)

May 5th, 2011, 1:52:24 AM	#11
Rising_Dusk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,742	So far as I am aware, CAPs are designed for the metagame they were started within. Lots of discussion and development happened with Tomohawk before Blaziken was banned, so it seems apparent to me that it should continue in such a manner. For that reason, I didn't ban Blaziken from the playtest ladder. That said, there's really no official ruling for metagame shifts in the middle of a CAP project, so the moderators could convene and if called for, I could ban Blaziken from the ladder.

May 5th, 2011, 1:24:08 PM	#12
Sambobz Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 93	tomo actually keeps blaziken in check pretty well, it is still a beast though.

May 5th, 2011, 8:13:35 PM	#13
Business Casual Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 40	So, I'm currently sitting at #1 on the CAP playtest ladder, and all I can say is that Tomohawk is so fucking good with rain. Hurricane is one of the best moves in the game.

May 6th, 2011, 10:15:59 AM	#18
capefeather hey, even pirates need attorneys Moderator Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,613 especially internet pirates	Why do people think that the ability to sweep with a certain set automatically disqualifies Tomohawk from its concept? If anything, the added versatility BENEFITS the concept. Either claim that the rain sweeper obsoletes the other sets that Tomohawk can run or don't claim anything at all. __________________ If we cannot take joy in things that are merely real, our lives will always be empty. <+joshe> im a registered sex offender for up to calc 3 <+Reflect_Suicune> i was thining of fucking jellicent for some reason <DetroitLolcat> I AM AROUSED BY BIMETALLIC CURRENCY!

May 6th, 2011, 2:22:23 PM	#19
Business Casual Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 40	Tomohawk still can't really sweep, even with hurricane. I've seen him being more useful by regaining lost momentum with priority substitute and then taking out key threats with hurricane or aura sphere.

May 6th, 2011, 4:04:40 PM	#21
Rising_Dusk Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,742	I don't think that means too much, considering that Whimsicott has always had priority Memento. The only real difference is that Whimsicott has Light Screen while Tomohawk has Reflect (and SR, which is cool). Whimsicott has other cool tricks like Encore, though, so I think it's pretty fair to use either. I've gotten to #5 on the ladder using Tomohawk in like 20 different ways just to try different tactics. The ladder is still young, so I won't start claiming much yet. Suffice to say that I like Intimidate Tomohawk a lot more than Prankster.

May 6th, 2011, 7:14:50 PM	#22
Korski Distilled, 80 proof Moderator Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,004 Minneapolis	Yes, the ladder has been pretty sparse these past few days, but it'll pick up as the deadline approaches and if and when the UU fervor dies down a bit. Rain probably constitutes 2/3 of teams right now as everyone and their mother seems to be chomping at the bit to plow Hurricane Tomohawk through opponents. I've found excellent responses to be SpD Jirachi with Wish and CM/Recover/Roar/DPulse Latias, who both coincidentally handle Reuniclus expertly as well. Watch out for Taunt on Tomohawk, although Hurricane versions seem to be running Sub/Roost, so they're much easier to handle. Another probable reason Rain is popular is because just about everything on a standard Rain team threatens Tomohawk significantly except for Ferrothorn. The most effective sets I've been seeing have been Substitute/Baton Pass, Rapid Spin, and Toxic Stall, in that order. The SubPass set (@Prankster) is basically what the concept called for entirely, and Tomohawk has just the right amount of bulk to pull it off and get some incredibly dangerous threats into battle unscathed and often with the Sub still intact, like Garchomp, Excadrill, or Cloyster. This list goes on and on. I've been using Rapid Spin most recently on a stall team and it's really effective. Being immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes and switching into Ferrothorn with almost no repercussions ever is a huge boon and gives my team a lot more freedom to move around. Finally, the Toxic Stall set is extremely annoying to face if you don't have a bulky Steel-type with recovery or something with Rest, Aromatherapy, or Taunt (i.e. SpD Jirachi, SD Scizor, RestTalk Gyarados, AromaBlissey, Thundurus), especially because the set has no real room for Taunt and these Pokes can simply outstall, wear down, or set up on Tomohawk. The best thing about this set at the moment is its surprise factor, as I think only one or two people are using it currently. This may all change, of course, once there is an actual crop of players on the ladder and people (myself included) stop counterteaming the few other players out there. __________________ "You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon

May 7th, 2011, 1:14:07 AM	#23
Griffen78 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 71	I wanna dump a set here that has worked wonders for me. Nature: modest Ability: intimidate Evs: hp: 255 S.atk: 255 moves: Yawn Aura sphere Air slash Work up a bulky sweeper :D And I have found that a sashed quiver dance passing Venomoth is a great partner for it. And this relativly new user named Slapstick would like me to mention that he was the one who mainly helped me to test and make this set </shout out> CaptaiN was responsible for the change in defensive stats. it used to be 55/100/100, but he calc'd that 255 hp would be better spent evs. Last edited by Griffen78; May 7th, 2011 at 3:43:30 AM.

May 7th, 2011, 10:47:15 AM	#25
Griffen78 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 71	255 hp is more effective at over all bulk then throwing it around into other stats. and max s.atk because he is a sweeper, thus: bulky sweeper