Ambipom (QC Approved 3/3)

The3DOstrich · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:55:32 PM

Pokedex: Ambipom

Status: Skeleton

QC Approvals:
1) PK Gaming
2) Snunch
3) Oglemi
--------------------------------------------------

[Overview]

Great base speed stat of 115, coupled with a respectable base 100 attack stat
Access to Technician, and a nice movepool to abuse it with
Can be incredibly threatening with entry hazard support thanks to its ability
Nice support movepool, with options such as Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Baton Pass
Can finally boost its physical offensives through Hone Claws, and is dangerous even at +1 thanks to Technician
Horrible bulk
Faces competition from Mew as a Baton Passer
Will be either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by most moves

[[Set]
name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Return
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Pursuit / U-Turn
item: Life Orb
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Access to Technician (and a nice movepool to boot), great Speed, and respectable Attack makes Ambipom the perfect candidate for a pure attacking set
STAB Technician boosted Fake Out can easily do serious damage right off the bat
Return is Normal-type STAB outside of Fake Out
Low Kick can slam the likes of Registeel
Pursuit hits fleeing foes for double damage
U-Turn allows Ambipom to make a quick getaway

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Fire Punch hits bulky Grass-types, while Seed Bomb hits bulky Waters (especially Quagsire and Gastrodon)
U-Turn escapes Wobbuffett
Appreciates entry hazards and Wish support
Former taken care of by Donphan and Roserade
Latter can be achieved with Alomomola or Chansey
Dual Screens allows Ambipom to take hits better in case it fails to KO the foe; Cresselia and Uxie can set them up with ease

[Set]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Return / Double Hit
move 2: Low Sweep / Low Kick
move 3: Pursuit / Payback
move 4: U-turn / Switcheroo
item: Choice Band
ability: Technician
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Ambipom can use its great speed and Choice Band boosted attack stat to function as a revenge killer
Return and Double Hit are Ambipom's STA moves
Low Sweep hits Steels hard after the Technician and Choice Band boosts, while also lowering the speed of anything that may switch in, allowing for a potential 2HKO
Low Kick can hit pokemon like Registeel harder
Pursuit allows Ambipom to come in on any Psychic or Ghost-types and effectively trap them
Payback allows more consistent damage
U-Turn allows Ambipom to escape an unfavorable matchup
However, Switcheroo can easily cripple many defensive threats

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Fire Punch or Aerial Ace can hit bulky Grass-types, as well as notable threats such as Venomoth, who can come in on a predicted Low Sweep and set up a Quiver Dance
Seed Bomb can hit bulky Water-types
Acrobatics may be used if you happen to Switcheroo and recieve a one use item
Dual Screen and Wish support are quite helpful, with Cresselia and Uxie providing the former while Alomomola and Chansey can provide the latter.

[Other Options]

Ambipom can run an offensive Baton Pass set with Nasty Plot, Hone Claws, or Work Up, though the former is outclassed by Mew and the latter two don't give Ambipom enough power
A Lead set can be used, though it is rather ineffective
A purely offensive boosting set with Hone Claws is possible, though the damage output only after +1 is underwhelming
Ambipom can use Thunder Wave or Toxic to spread status to the opponent's team
A set with four attacks and a Life Orb is an option, though the Lead usually outclasses this
As mentioned before, Fire Punch or Aerial Ace can be used to hit bulky Grass-types like Tangrowth
Seed Bomb hits bulky Water-types, namely Gastrodon and Quagsire

[Checks and Counters]

Ambipom's poor bulk means any strong attacker can do away with the monkey
Priority can cause a major problem
Hitmontop is one of the best examples, as it can easily KO Ambipom with the Fake Out + Mach Punch combo
Venomoth can come in on a Choice Banded Low Sweep or Low Kick and either set up a Quiver Dance on the switch or cripple the incoming switchin with Sleep Powder
Hard hitting Choice Scarfers can come in and revenge kill Ambipom
Bulky Ghost-types such as Cofagrigus and Dusknoir can come in on Ambipom's STAB move and cripple it with a Will-O-Wisp

[Dream World]

Ambipom recieves Skill Link via Dream World
The ability helps only with Doubleslap and Fury Swipes
It should never be used over Technician

Ubiquitous · Jun 9th, 2011, 2:37:05 PM

OK, why the hell is Low Sweep being used over Low Kick? The things that you'll be targeting with your fighting move are all going to be steel and rock types, (darks are hit harder by STAB Return), and most are heavy as hell, so Low Kick does a shit ton of damage to them.

Omicron · Jun 9th, 2011, 2:58:07 PM

Hone Claws isn't good, nothing benefits from the accuracy boost and +1 Ambipom is kinda underwhelming, especially with a dismal movepool like Ambipom's.

Moo · Jun 9th, 2011, 4:53:30 PM

The All Out Attacker set looks bad. It's basically the Lead set, which is better because of Taunt and U-Turn. I think you should get rid of it and have the Lead set take its place. (Makes sense because Leads are redundant this generation)

Choice Band looks interesting.

Hone Claws looks mediocre. It doesn't make use of the accuracy boost, meaning it basically gets a +1 Attack boost which is still kinda weak. Ambipom is also very frail too.

Curlehh · Jun 9th, 2011, 8:05:50 PM

name: Lead
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Acrobatics
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: U-turn
item: Normal Gem
nature: Jolly
ability: Technician
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Used this set to great success in OU a while back.

BurnyBlueBear · Jun 10th, 2011, 7:59:34 PM

ambipom doesnt resist anything, is immune to ghost, weak to fighting, everything else is neutral

Honko · Jun 10th, 2011, 8:29:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ubiquitous

OK, why the hell is Low Sweep being used over Low Kick? The things that you'll be targeting with your fighting move are all going to be steel and rock types, (darks are hit harder by STAB Return), and most are heavy as hell, so Low Kick does a shit ton of damage to them.

You're forgetting Technician boosts Low Sweep to a consistent 90 BP (so it's stronger than STAB Return against all Darks/Rocks/Steels), but you're still probably right that most targets are heavy enough for Low Kick to be better.

breh · Jun 10th, 2011, 8:54:39 PM

Low Kick too is boosted by Technician.

The speed drop may be beneficial, but I'm not sure to what extent.

Relevant (not necessarily SE) pokemon you're hitting for 20 and 40, and 80 BP:

...

I apologize if I missed any, but you can see here that pretty much anything you're hitting with Low Kick will be hit at least as hard as Low Sweep.

EDIT: I'm not saying that Low Kick is necessarily better (I even noted that the Speed drop is good) but simply that it will hit as hard when it's needed. Sorry if I was unclear.

Honko · Jun 10th, 2011, 9:05:41 PM

Yeah, but only against light targets, and in those cases Low Sweep is always better. Low Kick is only superior when it has 100+ BP. Someone needs to check if there are enough heavy targets for it to be the better option; I suspect there are, but it's not as cut and dry as "lol Low Sweep why the hell would anyone ever use that ever?" It's a viable move with Technician.

GtM · Jun 11th, 2011, 6:38:51 AM

Why would anyone use Ambipom for Baton Pass over Mew? Is the 15 extra Base Speed really the only reason, because that becomes irrelevant after you use Agility.

**PK Gaming** · Jun 30th, 2011, 9:41:27 PM

No, no, no, no, NO. Lead Ambipom is terrible. It was bad in gen IV and even worse in gen V. Ambipom should be used as a sweeper/revenge killer, because of its blistering speed and access to fake out, its super dangerous. Axe it, its complete trash (the set moves are off too)

This should be the main set:

name: LO Attacker
move 1: Fake Out
move 2: Return
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Pursuit / U-Turn
item: Life Orb

This set is ridiculously strong with entry hazard support. Give it a bigger mention in the overview.

The CB set needs a moveset change. De-slash Double Hit (its ever so slightly stronger than return, but it has imperfect accuracy) and de-slash Low Sweep too. Most, if not all of Low Kick's targets are hit heavy-slow pokemon. (Registeel, Rhyperior, etc) Also, Ambipom is ridiculously fast making it largely irrelevant. Everything else is fine.

Baton Pass is 100% outclassed by Mew, get rid of it.

Do all of that and I will stamp this analysis.

Edit:

QC APPROVED (1/3)

The3DOstrich · Jun 30th, 2011, 10:46:51 PM

All right, re-added the Life Orb variant, removed the Lead and Baton Pass sets, and made all other changes.

Snunch · Jul 5th, 2011, 1:04:10 AM

yeah I got to this earlier than I said. sue me.

QC APPROVED 2/3

***Oglemi**** · Jul 7th, 2011, 5:33:19 PM

QC 3/3

The3DOstrich · Jul 7th, 2011, 9:15:18 PM

Thanks for the final two checks! This should be written up at latest by Sunday.

Banedon · Jul 8th, 2011, 4:00:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat PK Gaming

No, no, no, no, NO. Lead Ambipom is terrible. It was bad in gen IV and even worse in gen V.

It was the most common UU lead in Gen IV @_@

Anyway this is contradictory:

"Can finally boost its physical offensives through Hone Claws, and is dangerous even at +1 thanks to Technician"

and

"A purely offensive boosting set with Hone Claws is possible, though the damage output only after +1 is underwhelming"

I'd suggest removing the former.

Todris052 · Jul 19th, 2011, 7:18:06 AM

I still don't understand the reason to use Return over Double Hit. Technician Double Hit always hits harder than Return, so why? The 90 Accuracy?

***Oglemi**** · Jul 19th, 2011, 11:27:37 AM

Yes, if you've played any kind of competitive Pokemon you'd know that perfect accuracy is much more important than a negligible power boost. 90 accuracy sucks massive dong just fyi.

November Blue · Jul 19th, 2011, 12:56:44 PM

That doesn't stop people eschewing Rock Slide in favor of Stone Edge in most cases. While the power difference is negligible, the multi hit property makes Double Hit worth using IMO. 90% is fairly high.

***Oglemi**** · Jul 19th, 2011, 2:07:14 PM

Rock Slide's 75 to Stone Edge's 100 power is a big fricking difference.

Double Hit's ~110 to Return's 102 is what you'd call negligible.

Plus, being able to hit through Subs is kind of pointless when the biggest users of Substitute in the tier, Rhyperior, Walrein, Froslass, Golurk, and Mismagius, dgaf about Double Hit at all. Sure you can hit BP teams and SubRoosters like Zapdos and Gligar, but the second hit of Double Hit is going to do jack squat to them anyway.

And for the record, any accuracy less than a 100 is suckish imo.

Santuga · Jul 19th, 2011, 2:28:01 PM

Isn't Taunt a viable option for Ambipom? It was back in gen 4 so idk

kaonohiokala · Jul 21st, 2011, 6:10:16 PM

Fire Punch should not be mentioned for Grass-types, as Return is always stronger anyways.

Fire Punch: 75 * 2 = 150
Return: 102 *1.5 = 153

Except for Ferroseed, but you rarely/never see them. If you mention Fire Punch, it should be for Escavalier and Durant.

GtM · Aug 24th, 2011, 6:07:54 PM

I've been using Taunt on the CB set like a madman, and it's actually not that bad. If you can Taunt something like Chansey or Registeel as they come in, you can switch to a pokemon that can easily take their attack and set up (like Mismagius) whilst they do hardly anything. After all, most will assume you're going to U-Turn out after Taunting them anyways, so no big loss. And if you manage to Switcheroo your Choice Band onto something, then Taunt has even more utility.

Yes, it does mean you lose coverage against Steels or Pursuit, but that's what other teammates are for. I've tested it extensively and haven't run into any major problems. It should only be used in situations where there's no chance for the opponent to mess you up, as you WILL have to switch afterwards. In this case, Switcheroo / Taunt / (Return or Double Hit) / (Pursuit or Low Kick) is probably the best option.

**Seven Deadly Sins** · Aug 27th, 2011, 4:26:12 PM

Eternal is taking this over. Locked and moved.

Jun 6th, 2011, 6:55:32 PM	#1
The3DOstrich Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 167	Ambipom (QC Approved 3/3) Pokedex: Ambipom Status: Skeleton QC Approvals: 1) PK Gaming 2) Snunch 3) Oglemi -------------------------------------------------- [Overview] Great base speed stat of 115, coupled with a respectable base 100 attack stat Access to Technician, and a nice movepool to abuse it with Can be incredibly threatening with entry hazard support thanks to its ability Nice support movepool, with options such as Taunt, Thunder Wave, and Baton Pass Can finally boost its physical offensives through Hone Claws, and is dangerous even at +1 thanks to Technician Horrible bulk Faces competition from Mew as a Baton Passer Will be either OHKO'd or 2HKO'd by most moves [[Set] name: All-Out Attacker move 1: Fake Out move 2: Return move 3: Low Kick move 4: Pursuit / U-Turn item: Life Orb ability: Technician nature: Jolly evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Access to Technician (and a nice movepool to boot), great Speed, and respectable Attack makes Ambipom the perfect candidate for a pure attacking set STAB Technician boosted Fake Out can easily do serious damage right off the bat Return is Normal-type STAB outside of Fake Out Low Kick can slam the likes of Registeel Pursuit hits fleeing foes for double damage U-Turn allows Ambipom to make a quick getaway [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Fire Punch hits bulky Grass-types, while Seed Bomb hits bulky Waters (especially Quagsire and Gastrodon) U-Turn escapes Wobbuffett Appreciates entry hazards and Wish support Former taken care of by Donphan and Roserade Latter can be achieved with Alomomola or Chansey Dual Screens allows Ambipom to take hits better in case it fails to KO the foe; Cresselia and Uxie can set them up with ease [Set] name: Choice Band move 1: Return / Double Hit move 2: Low Sweep / Low Kick move 3: Pursuit / Payback move 4: U-turn / Switcheroo item: Choice Band ability: Technician nature: Jolly evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Ambipom can use its great speed and Choice Band boosted attack stat to function as a revenge killer Return and Double Hit are Ambipom's STA moves Low Sweep hits Steels hard after the Technician and Choice Band boosts, while also lowering the speed of anything that may switch in, allowing for a potential 2HKO Low Kick can hit pokemon like Registeel harder Pursuit allows Ambipom to come in on any Psychic or Ghost-types and effectively trap them Payback allows more consistent damage U-Turn allows Ambipom to escape an unfavorable matchup However, Switcheroo can easily cripple many defensive threats [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Fire Punch or Aerial Ace can hit bulky Grass-types, as well as notable threats such as Venomoth, who can come in on a predicted Low Sweep and set up a Quiver Dance Seed Bomb can hit bulky Water-types Acrobatics may be used if you happen to Switcheroo and recieve a one use item Dual Screen and Wish support are quite helpful, with Cresselia and Uxie providing the former while Alomomola and Chansey can provide the latter. [Other Options] Ambipom can run an offensive Baton Pass set with Nasty Plot, Hone Claws, or Work Up, though the former is outclassed by Mew and the latter two don't give Ambipom enough power A Lead set can be used, though it is rather ineffective A purely offensive boosting set with Hone Claws is possible, though the damage output only after +1 is underwhelming Ambipom can use Thunder Wave or Toxic to spread status to the opponent's team A set with four attacks and a Life Orb is an option, though the Lead usually outclasses this As mentioned before, Fire Punch or Aerial Ace can be used to hit bulky Grass-types like Tangrowth Seed Bomb hits bulky Water-types, namely Gastrodon and Quagsire [Checks and Counters] Ambipom's poor bulk means any strong attacker can do away with the monkey Priority can cause a major problem Hitmontop is one of the best examples, as it can easily KO Ambipom with the Fake Out + Mach Punch combo Venomoth can come in on a Choice Banded Low Sweep or Low Kick and either set up a Quiver Dance on the switch or cripple the incoming switchin with Sleep Powder Hard hitting Choice Scarfers can come in and revenge kill Ambipom Bulky Ghost-types such as Cofagrigus and Dusknoir can come in on Ambipom's STAB move and cripple it with a Will-O-Wisp [Dream World] Ambipom recieves Skill Link via Dream World The ability helps only with Doubleslap and Fury Swipes It should never be used over Technician __________________ ... Last edited by Oglemi; Jul 24th, 2011 at 1:47:16 AM.

Jun 9th, 2011, 2:37:05 PM	#2
Ubiquitous Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 94	OK, why the hell is Low Sweep being used over Low Kick? The things that you'll be targeting with your fighting move are all going to be steel and rock types, (darks are hit harder by STAB Return), and most are heavy as hell, so Low Kick does a shit ton of damage to them. __________________ Sarcasm never comes off very well on the internet... :-(

Jun 9th, 2011, 2:58:07 PM	#3
Omicron Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,041 Seattle, WA	Hone Claws isn't good, nothing benefits from the accuracy boost and +1 Ambipom is kinda underwhelming, especially with a dismal movepool like Ambipom's. __________________

Jun 9th, 2011, 4:53:30 PM	#4
Moo Professor Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,447	The All Out Attacker set looks bad. It's basically the Lead set, which is better because of Taunt and U-Turn. I think you should get rid of it and have the Lead set take its place. (Makes sense because Leads are redundant this generation) Choice Band looks interesting. Hone Claws looks mediocre. It doesn't make use of the accuracy boost, meaning it basically gets a +1 Attack boost which is still kinda weak. Ambipom is also very frail too. __________________ GP / UU QC, VM for check VM for a UU rate

Jun 10th, 2011, 8:54:39 PM	#8
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,938	Low Kick too is boosted by Technician. The speed drop may be beneficial, but I'm not sure to what extent. Relevant (not necessarily SE) pokemon you're hitting for 20 and 40, and 80 BP: ... 20: Mew (1/2) Murkrow (1) Qwilfish (1/2) Uxie (1/2) Mesprit (1/2) Azelf (1/2) Phione (1) Victini (1/2) Shaymin (1) 40: Venomoth (1/4) Victreebel (1/2) Jolteon (1) Xatu (1/4) Ninjask (1/4) Gorebyss (1) Staraptor (1) Roserade (1/2) Ambipom (lol; 2x) 80: Blastoise (1) Nidoking (1/2) Poliwrath (1) Slowbro (1/2) Kangashkan (not sure if it's used though Scyther (1/4) Pinsir (1/2) Zapdos (1/2) Moltres (1/2) Feraligatr (1) Crobat (1/4) Heracross (1/2) Gligar (1/2) Smeargle (2; it's frail anyway) Sceptile (1) Sharpedo (2; it's frail anyway) Flygon (1) Cradily (2; Low Sweep is hands-down more useful here) Empoleon (2; see above) Drapion (1) Gallade (1/2) Krookodile (2; I'm not sure that it can take LO Low Kick) Sawsbuck (2; it's KOed by Low Kick anyway, I think) Bisharp (4; I really hope Ambipom OHKOes this lol) I apologize if I missed any, but you can see here that pretty much anything you're hitting with Low Kick will be hit at least as hard as Low Sweep. EDIT: I'm not saying that Low Kick is necessarily better (I even noted that the Speed drop is good) but simply that it will hit as hard when it's needed. Sorry if I was unclear. __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place Last edited by breh; Jun 10th, 2011 at 9:24:16 PM.

Jun 9th, 2011, 8:05:50 PM	#5
Curlehh Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3	name: Lead move 1: Fake Out move 2: Acrobatics move 3: Pursuit move 4: U-turn item: Normal Gem nature: Jolly ability: Technician evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Used this set to great success in OU a while back.

Jun 10th, 2011, 7:59:34 PM	#6
BurnyBlueBear Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 47 Pieville, AK	ambipom doesnt resist anything, is immune to ghost, weak to fighting, everything else is neutral

Jun 10th, 2011, 9:05:41 PM	#9
Honko pronounced "Honko" Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,022	Yeah, but only against light targets, and in those cases Low Sweep is always better. Low Kick is only superior when it has 100+ BP. Someone needs to check if there are enough heavy targets for it to be the better option; I suspect there are, but it's not as cut and dry as "lol Low Sweep why the hell would anyone ever use that ever?" It's a viable move with Technician.

Jun 11th, 2011, 6:38:51 AM	#10
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	Why would anyone use Ambipom for Baton Pass over Mew? Is the 15 extra Base Speed really the only reason, because that becomes irrelevant after you use Agility. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Jun 30th, 2011, 9:41:27 PM	#11
PK Gaming Quiet Thunder God Moderator Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 4,526 Izanagi	No, no, no, no, NO. Lead Ambipom is terrible. It was bad in gen IV and even worse in gen V. Ambipom should be used as a sweeper/revenge killer, because of its blistering speed and access to fake out, its super dangerous. Axe it, its complete trash (the set moves are off too) This should be the main set: name: LO Attacker move 1: Fake Out move 2: Return move 3: Low Kick move 4: Pursuit / U-Turn item: Life Orb This set is ridiculously strong with entry hazard support. Give it a bigger mention in the overview. The CB set needs a moveset change. De-slash Double Hit (its ever so slightly stronger than return, but it has imperfect accuracy) and de-slash Low Sweep too. Most, if not all of Low Kick's targets are hit heavy-slow pokemon. (Registeel, Rhyperior, etc) Also, Ambipom is ridiculously fast making it largely irrelevant. Everything else is fine. Baton Pass is 100% outclassed by Mew, get rid of it. Do all of that and I will stamp this analysis. Edit: QC APPROVED (1/3) __________________ Last edited by PK Gaming; Jun 30th, 2011 at 10:46:53 PM.

Jun 30th, 2011, 10:46:51 PM	#12
The3DOstrich Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 167	All right, re-added the Life Orb variant, removed the Lead and Baton Pass sets, and made all other changes. __________________ ...

Jul 5th, 2011, 1:04:10 AM	#13
Snunch 6675636B20656F Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,024 great signature by Lunar.	yeah I got to this earlier than I said. sue me. QC APPROVED 2/3 __________________ how to pronounce my name The official Twitter of Groudon's Grotto

Jul 7th, 2011, 5:33:19 PM	#14
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,527 ~(^.^)~	QC 3/3 __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 7th, 2011, 9:15:18 PM	#15
The3DOstrich Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 167	Thanks for the final two checks! This should be written up at latest by Sunday. __________________ ...

Jul 19th, 2011, 7:18:06 AM	#17
Todris052 Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 268	I still don't understand the reason to use Return over Double Hit. Technician Double Hit always hits harder than Return, so why? The 90 Accuracy? __________________ Stay Strong, Cool, and Sturdy. TrioOfDoom. Rock. Ice. Steel. There are two things I hate: Vanilluxe and animated Avatars. <In the your worst 5th gen battling moments thread> Gen. Empoleon, post #848: This isn't a very competitive centered thread. ....?

Jul 19th, 2011, 11:27:37 AM	#18
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,527 ~(^.^)~	Yes, if you've played any kind of competitive Pokemon you'd know that perfect accuracy is much more important than a negligible power boost. 90 accuracy sucks massive dong just fyi. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 19th, 2011, 12:56:44 PM	#19
November Blue Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,465	That doesn't stop people eschewing Rock Slide in favor of Stone Edge in most cases. While the power difference is negligible, the multi hit property makes Double Hit worth using IMO. 90% is fairly high.

Jul 19th, 2011, 2:07:14 PM	#20
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,527 ~(^.^)~	Rock Slide's 75 to Stone Edge's 100 power is a big fricking difference. Double Hit's ~110 to Return's 102 is what you'd call negligible. Plus, being able to hit through Subs is kind of pointless when the biggest users of Substitute in the tier, Rhyperior, Walrein, Froslass, Golurk, and Mismagius, dgaf about Double Hit at all. Sure you can hit BP teams and SubRoosters like Zapdos and Gligar, but the second hit of Double Hit is going to do jack squat to them anyway. And for the record, any accuracy less than a 100 is suckish imo. __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum

Jul 19th, 2011, 2:28:01 PM	#21
Santuga Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 322	Isn't Taunt a viable option for Ambipom? It was back in gen 4 so idk

Jul 21st, 2011, 6:10:16 PM	#22
kaonohiokala Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 351 Kingdom of Hawai'i	Fire Punch should not be mentioned for Grass-types, as Return is always stronger anyways. Fire Punch: 75 * 2 = 150 Return: 102 1.5 = 153 Except for Ferroseed, but you rarely/never see them. If you mention Fire Punch, it should be for Escavalier and Durant. __________________ JUMPJUMPJUMPJUMPJUMP Last edited by kaonohiokala; Jul 26th, 2011 at 5:59:04 PM.*

Aug 24th, 2011, 6:07:54 PM	#23
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	I've been using Taunt on the CB set like a madman, and it's actually not that bad. If you can Taunt something like Chansey or Registeel as they come in, you can switch to a pokemon that can easily take their attack and set up (like Mismagius) whilst they do hardly anything. After all, most will assume you're going to U-Turn out after Taunting them anyways, so no big loss. And if you manage to Switcheroo your Choice Band onto something, then Taunt has even more utility. Yes, it does mean you lose coverage against Steels or Pursuit, but that's what other teammates are for. I've tested it extensively and haven't run into any major problems. It should only be used in situations where there's no chance for the opponent to mess you up, as you WILL have to switch afterwards. In this case, Switcheroo / Taunt / (Return or Double Hit) / (Pursuit or Low Kick) is probably the best option. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Aug 27th, 2011, 4:26:12 PM	#24
Seven Deadly Sins :D Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 4,175	Eternal is taking this over. Locked and moved. __________________