Honchkrow discussion

Berserker Lord · Jun 5th, 2011, 7:32:20 PM

Ah Honchkrow, everyones favourite boss krow. Honchkrow was way too strong for UU last gen, resulting in the first 100% in favour of ban. However, Honchkrow is seeing surprisingly little use this gen. Will this change in the upcoming months? Will Honchkrow prove way too much for UU to handle? I don't know, so lets just see what Honchkrow can do.

Type: Drak/Flying
Ability: Insomnia, Super Luck, Moxie
base stats:

HP: 100
Atk: 125
Def: 52
SpAtk: 105
SpDef: 52
Spe: 71

Movesets:

Physical Attacker:
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Roost / Pursuit
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

Set that got Honchkrow banned last gen. The rediculous power of Honchkrows Brave Bird lets him 2HKO pretty much anything that doesn't resist it, and take a good chunk out of even some resists. Sucker Punch offers priroity to Honchkrow, and he makes prefect use of it, destroying many would be revenge killers. Superpower rounds out his attacks, smashing the Steels and Rocks that resist Brave Bird. Last slot is really up in the air. Roost can be used to heal off damage from Styealth Rock, Brave Bird, and Life Orb. Pursuit can be used for mindgames, but has little use outside of that, and the power is disappointing.

Opinion about Honchkrow: He's one of the best Pokemon i've ever used. Sucker Punch has saved my ass so many times, and his generally powerful attacks can easily blow holes into the opposing team for something else to clean up. The amount of prediction wars i've had to go through when sweeping with Honchkrow can get annoying, but they aren't the hardest.

P.s> Didn't put Nasty Plot because I honestly doubt its effectiveness this gen, and Honchkrow honestly has better things to do then special sweeping.

Lady Shinki · Jun 5th, 2011, 9:40:29 PM

He has a couple niche options, and once its dream world ability is released it'll probably see a lot more use.

As for the last slot of his set, he has a couple niche options. Heat Wave hits steels without lowering its attack, Night Slash gives it dark STAB that doesn't require the opponent to attack (if you ever need it), Tailwind is a nice support option, and Taunt is another thing that could see some use since it attracts status like a magnet. In fact, here's an idea for a set that would absolutely tear up UU stall teams:

Honchkrow @ Leftovers
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
Adamant(jolly) / Insomnia(Super Luck)

Taunt
Roost
Brave Bird/Drill Peck/Night Slash
Superpower

Superpower+Brave Bird has almost perfect coverage, and his respectable HP stat means that it's very good at dealing with set-damage attacks if you use it smartly. Night Slash goes with super luck, Insomnia goes with all of them.

TheOriginalBattler · Jun 5th, 2011, 10:00:30 PM

Nature:Jolly/Adamant
Physical Attacker:
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Brave Bird
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Roost / Superpower
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def

This is a set i use and it works really well. But i mainly prefer roost over superpower since it lowers attack and defense, but even though moxie covers for attack its still good to at least get your health back up. Just incase someone switches you can get a roost off so this beast can last longer. Only problem are steel and rock types mostly used: Scizor Ttar, and gross and thats when superpower comes in so its kind of hard.....so try to always keep a pokemon with a ground type moves(make sure they are bulky enough) just in case you don't use super power.

Heres a battle of me using the set:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rojrg...el_video_title

ps: If anyone want me to test a set out just ask me and ill post a battle of the set.

Machi · Jun 5th, 2011, 11:20:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kenshiro

He has a couple niche options, and once its dream world ability is released it'll probably see a lot more use.

His dream world ability is released... Which is basically a shock that its not mentioned as a set on the intro. His Moxie set would basically be as its not like he has access to much moves (since Superpower and Heatwave are tutor moves)...

Honchkrow
Moxie @ leftovers, Adamant
252 Atk/120 Def/124 Sp Def/12 Spe
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Substitute
Roost

EVs are so it can take hits well - I like to support this with screens - and the speed is there to help avoid status by certain slower walls. Now since you don't have access to Superpower you're basically stuck with his two STAB attacks - but that's not so bad coverage is quite good especially once you net a kill boosting your attack. Roost and leftovers are for longevity as you can acquire some health back even if your sucker punch fails while roost is to help you recover from Brave bird recoil and substitute. Your only issue at times is netting that kill when you still don't have any attack boosts from moxie Suicune and Slowbro become a problem - steels are a given and so is Zapdos but if you've netted a boost there is a chance of you winning with proper prediction. Once Honchkrow acquires its boost it becomes difficult to stop - but definitely not very easy to use as this will require lots of predictions. I find it best to use him as a late game sweeper with most mons being weakened already and walls - especially steels - are out of the way.

Dr. Alex · Jun 6th, 2011, 12:40:46 AM

Hey remember he gets heat wave! The fire move is great on him

vraikou · Jun 6th, 2011, 12:55:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Dr. Alex

Hey remember he gets heat wave! The fire move is great on him

Heat Wave is illegal with Moxie which is more or less the best reason to use Honchkrow.

Rayquaza_ · Jun 6th, 2011, 1:42:23 AM

Insomnia is much better than Moxie.

133k · Jun 6th, 2011, 12:04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Insomnia is much better than Moxie.

This. Without Heat Wave, Superpower, or anything else from 4th gen, Honchkrow can't touch Steel types at all, and many Rock types won't fear a Sucker Punch all that much; his only (physical) attacking options are BB, Drill Peck, Sucker Punch and Pursuit (gamefreak y u no giv Drill Liner? D:). Even if it did get Superpower and Heat Wave, neither of which really benefit from Moxie; I guess Superpower's attack drop is nullified, but it's not like you'd be staying in anyways. I love Honchkrow, but Moxie really only limits it's already not-so-great movepool.

vraikou · Jun 6th, 2011, 6:40:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat 133k

This. Without Heat Wave, Superpower, or anything else from 4th gen, Honchkrow can't touch Steel types at all, and many Rock types won't fear a Sucker Punch all that much; his only (physical) attacking options are BB, Drill Peck, Sucker Punch and Pursuit (gamefreak y u no giv Drill Liner? D:). Even if it did get Superpower and Heat Wave, neither of which really benefit from Moxie; I guess Superpower's attack drop is nullified, but it's not like you'd be staying in anyways. I love Honchkrow, but Moxie really only limits it's already not-so-great movepool.

Keep in mind that there aren't a whole lot of Steels in UU anyway (Cobalion and Escavalier being neutral to BB anyway), and the only way you're going to touch Rhyperior and friends regardless of ability is random crap like HP Water. I really think that Moxie is what's going to make Honchkrow's niche - I've already swept several teams (and in a few cases, came back from a 2-5 situation) with a SubRoost Moxie Honchkrow. :(

Bad Ass · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:00:27 PM

If stall is ever an issue, Honchkrow solves it. Nothing on a stall team can stand up to this beast. And god help you if he gets a Moxie boost.

Sung-Hyun Jin · Jun 6th, 2011, 8:25:50 PM

I have been using my honchkrow with psych up. Maybe snatch too. These moves makes use of setup moves that people might use fearing sucker punch. I have killed a lot of salamences with this set.

Honchkrow
Insomnia @ Life Orb, Adamant
252 Atk/252 SpD
~Sucker Punch
~Brave Bird
~Superpower
~Psych up/Snatch

Actually SpD might go to Spe but I have been using it to counter weak grass types using sleep powder... It is just because of my team. Anyway it copies or snatches the dragon dances or curses. Actually I copied full +6 calm mind from shadow tag Gothitelle after my choice locked cham finally has been killed. It can be useful in many ways...

Meru · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:49:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bad Ass

If stall is ever an issue, Honchkrow solves it. Nothing on a stall team can stand up to this beast. And god help you if he gets a Moxie boost.

Physically defensive Zapdos has been working fine for me as a counter. Honchkrow is hardly a stallbreaker considering it's SR weak and it needs to run Life Orb.

mamoswineFTW · Jun 8th, 2011, 4:25:57 AM

A Honchkrow set I've used to effect in OU was:

Honchkrow @ Leftovers
Adamant, Moxie
252 attack/HP for lefties+subs(can't really remember)
Sucker Punch
Brave Bird
Substitute
Night Shade

The reason Night Shade is thrown in there is to get the set amount of damage on the pokemon you can't really kill with your STABs. And behind a substitute means that they either boost up, while you deal damage with night shade, or attack with sucker punch if they try and break the sub.

I'm not sure how this will work in UU though, and can't really test because I can't get onto PO for a while. But give it a go, because after 1 kill this thing becomes deadly!

**Tobes** · Jun 8th, 2011, 3:41:24 PM

Moxie is THE reason to use Honchkrow, people.

Krow loves Trick Room support, since it gives it a brief window where it doesn't need to rely on Sucker Punch for dealing with faster threats, and can usually grab a boost before time runs out, allowing it to plow through offensive teams with a +2 or even a +3 Sucker Punch alone.

Roost really should be used because of SR weak, LO, Brave Bird, etc., so really only the fourth slot is debatable. I've used Taunt, which wrecks Chansey and co, and HP Grass for smashing Rhyperior / Water/Ground mons / Donphan (although Brave Bird still does a fair amount against the latter two). Taunt so far seems to be the more useful move.

WiredSushi · Jun 17th, 2011, 3:23:01 AM

hochkrow works great with moxie especialy since it is a great revenge killer

Informal Tonight · Jun 17th, 2011, 9:19:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat WiredSushi

hochkrow works great with moxie especialy since it is a great revenge killer

I wouldn't say great since it has mediocare speed and sucker punch is pretty predictable.

But yeah, Honch and Moxie do make a great combo.

Graceclaw · Jun 18th, 2011, 9:24:04 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned his revenge killing capabilities. My main UU team (peaked #9) uses him as a scarfed revenge killer to great effect.

Mao (Honchkrow) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Insomnia
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Brave Bird
- Pursuit
- Night Slash
- Superpower

I know his SR weakness is a pain, and does come back to haunt me, but if I hold him back til he's really necessary, he has great coverage and can 2HKO Chansey w/Superpower if given the chance. The EV spread+Scarf gives me 383 atk and 361 Speed, which is more than enough for most of my revenge killing needs. Insomnia blocks sleep powder set-ups and gives Honch a free switch in. Pursuit is just there to catch pokes I KNOW will flee me when I switch in, though I usually don't choose it because it guarantees that I have to switch after I use it once, with its pathetic 40 BP. I actually just realized I should change it to Adamant nature (I made up this set when I was still a beginner). People are caught off guard when they see Honch @ all in this metagame, let alone a scarfed Honch. He can easily sweep late game with Brave Bird provided steels and rocks are gone. I love my Honchkrow ^^

Koopakingprodigy · Jun 18th, 2011, 10:01:53 PM

Moxie, SubKrow is one of the better sets i believe.

Temperantia · Jun 18th, 2011, 10:36:55 PM

I run Sub/Roost Moxie and gotten far better results than I ever did with the 4th Gen Mixed set. Hate to say it, but Honch's niche really is Moxie.
Although, this is hardly a bad thing as Honchkrow is probably the best (read: only competent) Moxie sweeper around. Everything else either has something better to run, or just doesn't work well with it.

breh · Jun 19th, 2011, 1:06:24 AM

how is moxie able to take care of rhyperior?

Machi · Jun 19th, 2011, 2:49:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Breludicolo

how is moxie able to take care of rhyperior?

It doesn't that's why Rhyperior is the best counter against Moxiekrow IMO as Rhyperior can basically set up on it or just outright attack it with Rock blast (I prefer rock blast as it goes through the sub variants which I find to be more effective given that sub blocks status). While even with +2 boost an adamant Moxikrow will still not be dealing much damage (since Rhyperior's weaker defense is on the special side).

Temperantia · Jun 22nd, 2011, 4:40:41 PM

As if MixKrow can do anything either? Superpower never Ohko's Rhyperior. And afaik that's it's most effective move against it...

M BLADE · Jun 22nd, 2011, 4:45:21 PM

Last gen many good players were putting HP Grass on Honchrow as a "filler move" to surprise Rhyperior (their moveset was Brave Bird/Sucker Punch/Superpower/HP Grass). Though i doubt that this would fix the main problem; sure, you KO Rhyperior, but you're still walled by steel pokes. With Moxie, of course, since it lacks Superpower.

Speech Aide Meheh · Jun 24th, 2011, 9:31:00 AM

Well, Moxie IS a great ability, but doesn't everyone like a crit with Sucker Punch?
Or perhaps a Spore immunity? (Which actually makes Krow one of the best Breloom counters)
And with that pesky Ferrothorn lurking around, we all love to hit it with Heat Wave RIGHT??
Yes, I use Da Krow Boss in Standard OU play.

Heat Wave - Ferrothorn, Scizor(?)
Brave Bird - Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Breloom (?), Infernape (?)
Sucker Punch/ Night Slash - Reuniculus, Jellicent
Roost for nice healing, HP Grass for... yes Rhypy

I miss 4th gen :(

PokéMontage · Jul 25th, 2011, 2:57:52 AM

^The idea is to use HP Grass if you predict the Rhyperior switching in, which forces it to either switch or die since Honchkrow can outspeed and KO the next turn (I assume HP Grass 2HKOs through Solid Rock).

Jun 5th, 2011, 10:00:30 PM	#3
TheOriginalBattler Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 8 a place	DarkBird Nature:Jolly/Adamant Physical Attacker: move 1: Sucker Punch move 2: Brave Bird move 3: Pursuit move 4: Roost / Superpower item: Life Orb nature: Adamant evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def This is a set i use and it works really well. But i mainly prefer roost over superpower since it lowers attack and defense, but even though moxie covers for attack its still good to at least get your health back up. Just incase someone switches you can get a roost off so this beast can last longer. Only problem are steel and rock types mostly used: Scizor Ttar, and gross and thats when superpower comes in so its kind of hard.....so try to always keep a pokemon with a ground type moves(make sure they are bulky enough) just in case you don't use super power. Heres a battle of me using the set: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rojrg...el_video_title ps: If anyone want me to test a set out just ask me and ill post a battle of the set. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOriginalBattler If you like Pokemon I think you should click that(^) link and sub :3

Jun 6th, 2011, 12:40:46 AM	#5
Dr. Alex Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 133 Rome, Italy	Hey remember he gets heat wave! The fire move is great on him __________________ One time, I caught them all. And it was so not worth it.

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:00:27 PM	#10
Bad Ass have you seen the english deer park? Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,899	If stall is ever an issue, Honchkrow solves it. Nothing on a stall team can stand up to this beast. And god help you if he gets a Moxie boost. __________________ check out my youtube channel! i put up lots of good narrated matches between battlers you actually care about! tournament matches, finals, and any battle i deem entertaining. saddened by the lack of warstories on smogon? enjoy quality narration from a cute southern belle? spend your friday nights analyzing pokemon matches? then my youtube channel might just be for you...

Jun 8th, 2011, 4:25:57 AM	#13
mamoswineFTW Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 70	A Honchkrow set I've used to effect in OU was: Honchkrow @ Leftovers Adamant, Moxie 252 attack/HP for lefties+subs(can't really remember) Sucker Punch Brave Bird Substitute Night Shade The reason Night Shade is thrown in there is to get the set amount of damage on the pokemon you can't really kill with your STABs. And behind a substitute means that they either boost up, while you deal damage with night shade, or attack with sucker punch if they try and break the sub. I'm not sure how this will work in UU though, and can't really test because I can't get onto PO for a while. But give it a go, because after 1 kill this thing becomes deadly! __________________ Soul Silver Pokedex: 493 seen, 493 caught Battle Factory record: 33 wins, 29 trades. Battle Tower record: 42 consecutive wins with 12 attacking team of: Infernape, Latios and Metagross. If only I could get at least 7 more...

Jun 8th, 2011, 3:41:24 PM	#14
Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo-woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Moderator Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,253 GONER	Moxie is THE reason to use Honchkrow, people. Krow loves Trick Room support, since it gives it a brief window where it doesn't need to rely on Sucker Punch for dealing with faster threats, and can usually grab a boost before time runs out, allowing it to plow through offensive teams with a +2 or even a +3 Sucker Punch alone. Roost really should be used because of SR weak, LO, Brave Bird, etc., so really only the fourth slot is debatable. I've used Taunt, which wrecks Chansey and co, and HP Grass for smashing Rhyperior / Water/Ground mons / Donphan (although Brave Bird still does a fair amount against the latter two). Taunt so far seems to be the more useful move. __________________

Jun 5th, 2011, 9:40:29 PM	#2
Lady Shinki Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 408	He has a couple niche options, and once its dream world ability is released it'll probably see a lot more use. As for the last slot of his set, he has a couple niche options. Heat Wave hits steels without lowering its attack, Night Slash gives it dark STAB that doesn't require the opponent to attack (if you ever need it), Tailwind is a nice support option, and Taunt is another thing that could see some use since it attracts status like a magnet. In fact, here's an idea for a set that would absolutely tear up UU stall teams: Honchkrow @ Leftovers 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def Adamant(jolly) / Insomnia(Super Luck) Taunt Roost Brave Bird/Drill Peck/Night Slash Superpower Superpower+Brave Bird has almost perfect coverage, and his respectable HP stat means that it's very good at dealing with set-damage attacks if you use it smartly. Night Slash goes with super luck, Insomnia goes with all of them.

Jun 6th, 2011, 1:42:23 AM	#7
Rayquaza_ Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 694	Insomnia is much better than Moxie.

Jun 6th, 2011, 8:25:50 PM	#11
Sung-Hyun Jin Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 25	I have been using my honchkrow with psych up. Maybe snatch too. These moves makes use of setup moves that people might use fearing sucker punch. I have killed a lot of salamences with this set. Honchkrow Insomnia @ Life Orb, Adamant 252 Atk/252 SpD ~Sucker Punch ~Brave Bird ~Superpower ~Psych up/Snatch Actually SpD might go to Spe but I have been using it to counter weak grass types using sleep powder... It is just because of my team. Anyway it copies or snatches the dragon dances or curses. Actually I copied full +6 calm mind from shadow tag Gothitelle after my choice locked cham finally has been killed. It can be useful in many ways...

Jun 17th, 2011, 3:23:01 AM	#15
WiredSushi Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 84	hochkrow works great with moxie especialy since it is a great revenge killer __________________ http://www.Youtube.com/wirelesssushi

Jun 18th, 2011, 9:24:04 PM	#17
Graceclaw Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 48	I'm surprised nobody has mentioned his revenge killing capabilities. My main UU team (peaked #9) uses him as a scarfed revenge killer to great effect. Mao (Honchkrow) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Insomnia EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def) - Brave Bird - Pursuit - Night Slash - Superpower I know his SR weakness is a pain, and does come back to haunt me, but if I hold him back til he's really necessary, he has great coverage and can 2HKO Chansey w/Superpower if given the chance. The EV spread+Scarf gives me 383 atk and 361 Speed, which is more than enough for most of my revenge killing needs. Insomnia blocks sleep powder set-ups and gives Honch a free switch in. Pursuit is just there to catch pokes I KNOW will flee me when I switch in, though I usually don't choose it because it guarantees that I have to switch after I use it once, with its pathetic 40 BP. I actually just realized I should change it to Adamant nature (I made up this set when I was still a beginner). People are caught off guard when they see Honch @ all in this metagame, let alone a scarfed Honch. He can easily sweep late game with Brave Bird provided steels and rocks are gone. I love my Honchkrow ^^

Jun 18th, 2011, 10:01:53 PM	#18
Koopakingprodigy Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 3 Australia	Moxie, SubKrow is one of the better sets i believe. __________________ Check out my Youtube http://www.youtube.com/Koopakingprodigy B/W FC: 2623 3138 5827 I Legally Pokegen.

Jun 18th, 2011, 10:36:55 PM	#19
Temperantia Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,719	I run Sub/Roost Moxie and gotten far better results than I ever did with the 4th Gen Mixed set. Hate to say it, but Honch's niche really is Moxie. Although, this is hardly a bad thing as Honchkrow is probably the best (read: only competent) Moxie sweeper around. Everything else either has something better to run, or just doesn't work well with it. __________________ Restless souls will put on their dancing shoes Mindless ghouls with lots of limbs to lose Illusionist Contortionist Tightrope walker tightening the noose

Jun 19th, 2011, 1:06:24 AM	#20
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,938	how is moxie able to take care of rhyperior? __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place

Jun 22nd, 2011, 4:40:41 PM	#22
Temperantia Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,719	As if MixKrow can do anything either? Superpower never Ohko's Rhyperior. And afaik that's it's most effective move against it... __________________ Restless souls will put on their dancing shoes Mindless ghouls with lots of limbs to lose Illusionist Contortionist Tightrope walker tightening the noose

Jun 22nd, 2011, 4:45:21 PM	#23
M BLADE Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,226 On a fairy tale. Not cool	Last gen many good players were putting HP Grass on Honchrow as a "filler move" to surprise Rhyperior (their moveset was Brave Bird/Sucker Punch/Superpower/HP Grass). Though i doubt that this would fix the main problem; sure, you KO Rhyperior, but you're still walled by steel pokes. With Moxie, of course, since it lacks Superpower. __________________ M-BLADE: Saying nonsense since 1988. Owner of the best signatures ever. Ditto.

Jun 24th, 2011, 9:31:00 AM	#24
Speech Aide Meheh Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 21	Well, Moxie IS a great ability, but doesn't everyone like a crit with Sucker Punch? Or perhaps a Spore immunity? (Which actually makes Krow one of the best Breloom counters) And with that pesky Ferrothorn lurking around, we all love to hit it with Heat Wave RIGHT?? Yes, I use Da Krow Boss in Standard OU play. Heat Wave - Ferrothorn, Scizor(?) Brave Bird - Keldeo, Conkeldurr, Breloom (?), Infernape (?) Sucker Punch/ Night Slash - Reuniculus, Jellicent Roost for nice healing, HP Grass for... yes Rhypy I miss 4th gen :(

Jul 25th, 2011, 2:57:52 AM	#25
PokéMontage Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 439 It is such a secret place, the land of tears...	^The idea is to use HP Grass if you predict the Rhyperior switching in, which forces it to either switch or die since Honchkrow can outspeed and KO the next turn (I assume HP Grass 2HKOs through Solid Rock).