Pokemon Unfit for UU Analyses - Page 3

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:23:19 PM

yeah I just saw Blastoise in action and it was damn impressive.

EDIT: Also added Scolipede.

breh · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:24:50 PM

Can't you disable chansey very heavily with a good prediction Trick?

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:26:56 PM

So can any other Psychic-type from Hypno and Grumpig to Chimecho. Doesn't mean I'll let them get an analysis atm.

ParaChomp · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:29:37 PM

Cofagrigus? Amazing bulk, great ability, Calm Mind. With its ability, Slaking comes to mind.

prem · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:37:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ParaChomp

Cofagrigus? Amazing bulk, great ability, Calm Mind. With its ability, Slaking comes to mind.

lol the slaking nonsense could probably work pretty well in UU when i think about it. the only common mach puncher is hitmontop who wont deal enough damage to matter probably

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 10:50:43 PM

Dusclops, Dusknoir, Froslass, and Mismagius > Cofragrigus. So no.

CPU · Jun 6th, 2011, 11:00:19 PM

I'm a pretty bad player but I used CB Aggron on a Trick Room team and it hits amazingly hard. Granted, the only move that I ever really used was Head Smash, but it's very difficult to take that hit. I will say that it's likely outclassed by Rhyperior (though it too suffers from a myriad of weaknesses), but Steel typing and naturally impressive Defense helps it a bit.

ParaChomp · Jun 6th, 2011, 11:05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oglemi

Dusclops, Dusknoir, Froslass, and Mismagius > Cofragrigus. So no.

Well when the priority list is done, then I'm sure that there's a possibility.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 6th, 2011, 11:13:57 PM

Yeah I'm not saying that neither Aggron nor Cofragrigus are bad, just not good enough to warrant an analysis atm.

Anyway after talking on IRC I'm adding Hariyama to the list

EDIT: Also Kabutops and Omastar

Chou Toshio · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:52:56 AM

Cofagrigus got a lot of usage at the beginning of the meta... well we'll see how it fares this round.

I'm going to back Oglemi on Jinx being pretty underwhelming. No for now really...

I saw maybe 1 or 2 Aggron in an entire round of play so, :/ Escavalier, Cobalion and Rhyperior do it better basically.

Blastoise is awesome.

edit: On the subject of Bulky Water types, Poliwrath should probably get an analysis (though it's not a MAJOR UU Poke, it's pretty good-- about the same level of usefulness as something like Scollipede). It's Circle Throw hits way harder than Blastoise's Dragon Tail, and makes is a real threat to many teams. It's resistances to Dark, Bug, Steel, Fire, Ice and Water Absorb give it great resistances in the meta, letting it switch in frequently and spam its STAB Phaze attack. It's an almost complete stop to Escavalier, Bisharp, Heracross, Cobalion, Snorlax, Houndoom, and further checks Arcanine, Victini, Mamoswine and fellow bulky water-types like Suicune. RestTalk + Circle Throw + Filler is the best set, but it can run a support set with Circle Throw, Toxic, + 2 attacks.

prem · Jun 7th, 2011, 1:26:48 AM

in lieu of poliwrath, how about throh with its massive defenses? i havent personally tried it, so im not going to vouch for it though

Chou Toshio · Jun 7th, 2011, 1:28:49 AM

What makes Poliwrath good though is its useful resistances, because added resistances to Fire, Ice and Steel are huge in UU.

I've talked to Oglemi more though and we're going to hold off on Poliwrath for now. It does stuff, but it's not quite "there."

***Birkal**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 2:15:36 AM

What about Lanturn? Even though its stats aren't the greatest, it has an excellent movepool and can provide its team with an invaluable Heal Bell. It gets great coverage with Ice / Electric / Water and can run a variety of sets. It's essentially the Rotom-W of UU without as much bulk.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 2:33:51 AM

I haven't seen a single Lanturn thus far, and tbh, I've always found its tanking abilities slightly underwhelming. There's just too much stuff that's better than it atm (Empoleon, Suicune, Chansey, Slowking) that it's not worth doing right now.

And if it was the Rotom-W of UU, it'd be fucking everywhere believe you me.

black_cotton · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:19:36 PM

I think Hitmonlee could be added. Sure it has -5 points in atk than Gallade; but is 7 points faster and has acess to arguably better priority moves (Mach punch/Sucker Punch).

A life orb revenge killer or even a scarf set outspeeding things that gallade and heracross can't could be considered too.

Finally, it got the improved Hi Jump Kick, which if I'm not mistaken, got the Reckless Boost. Something that differs him even more from Gallade and Heracross.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:28:42 PM

Hitmontop is infinitely better than Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee is just too frail for this metagame and really isn't that good. Sure he has some perks over Heracross for a choice set, but Heracross ultimately does it better.

GtM · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:33:28 PM

I think Gastrodon deserves an analysis for a number of reasons. Gastrodon is simply an excellent check to Victini, Arcanine, Zapdos and Nidoking . A 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 56 SpD Modest spread with Leftovers is never 2HKO'd by LO Victini's V-Create or Zen Headbutt, and always survives Final Gambit if it hasn't taken prior damage. LO Arcanine can't 3HKO with Flare Blitz or 2HKO with Close Combat, and with lowered defenses both are take out by Surf with certainty, unless Victini has HP investment for some reason. If it does, it's Trick Room Victini, and that could mean it's in a whole other world of trouble. Zapdos can't do shit to Gastrodon without HP Grass or Toxic, and even then HP Grass doesn't OHKO Gastrodon without a Life Orb. Nidoking can't take out Gastrodon with a combination of Ice Beam + Earth Power, so basically Gastrodon can switch in on any attack other than Earthpower and KO 100% of the time with Surf. LO Kingdra is also walled, it can't OHKO with Draco Meteor and Gastrodon can just heal off the damage. I don't think Quagsire could manage any of this so it's definitely not outclassed imo.

Storm Drain's buff also makes Gastrodon a great check to bulky Waters that lack Toxic, Protect can be used if necessary to scout for Toxic or HP Grass. Sand Force can also be used to give Gastrodon an effective base 130 attack stat when using Earthquake or Stone Edge with a max attack Curse set. And Sticky Hold as usual is useful at rebuking Trick users like Deoxys-D.

Of course, I'm not biased at all... lol.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:40:19 PM

Yeah if I'm allowing Quagsire, Gastrodon should get one too. OK

Ubiquitous · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:42:19 PM

I nominate Crustle to be added - He's the only pokemon that I know of who has Spikes AND Stealth Rock on the same set down here, plus he has Sturdy and can run Mental Herb to prevent Taunt. I've used him to great success in OU as well.
Oh yeah, and he has Shell Smash. Just saying.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:43:42 PM

Crustle also has a crap typing and is still pretty slow even after a Shell Smash. I haven't been impressed by one yet, and Deoxys-D gets both Spikes and Stealth Rock.

Galladiator · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:53:07 PM

Here we go again. I'm making a case for Luxray. (Eh, if someone can bring up Combusken, then why not.)

Besides its standard wallbreaking capabilities, Luxray also got two new toys to play with: Guts and Wild Charge. It can run a pretty awesome physical set with Flame Orb, Wild Charge, and Facade.

Ubiquitous · Jun 7th, 2011, 12:57:36 PM

Adamant 252 Spe Crustle can outrun positive base 120's after a Shell Smash, so it's not THAT slow..

Anyway, Cottonee? Bit hopeful, but with Eviolite it has defenses similar to Whimsicott and with lower HP has a higher % recovery every turn with Leech Seed.

Raikoben · Jun 7th, 2011, 1:07:41 PM

I think that crobat with his super speed and having Hypnosis, Nasty Plot and Taunt in its move list is the perfect counter to Ferrothorn and Foretress. 1 Nasty Plot and thenyoou can taunt it but Crobat already has a good +450 SpA and Heat Wave in its moveset. Bye bye steel starter.

Dark pulse+1 Nasty Plot break with Taunter Azelf.

Sludge Bomb is the Stab move to complete the Sweeper moveset.

With this crobat at the begining of the battle only Blissey and priority move users can stop it

Ubiquitous · Jun 7th, 2011, 1:10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Raikoben

I think that crobat with his super speed and having Hypnosis, Nasty Plot and Taunt in its move list is the perfect counter to Ferrothorn and Foretress. 1 Nasty Plot and thenyoou can taunt it but Crobat already has a good +450 SpA and Heat Wave in its moveset. Bye bye steel starter.

Dark pulse+1 Nasty Plot break with Taunter Azelf.

Sludge Bomb is the Stab move to complete the Sweeper moveset.

With this crobat at the begining of the battle only Blissey and priority move users can stop it

This thread is for UU. Ferrothorn, Forretress and Blissey don't exist down here. And besides, Crobat is already on the priority list.

***Oglemi**** · Jun 7th, 2011, 1:26:11 PM

Luxray - No. Even Electivire > Luxray

Cottonee - imo Jumpluff > Cottonee, and I don't have Jumpluff on the priority list. Cottonee to me just seems too gimmicky, and while I don't doubt it can be effective, I haven't seen one used to success thus far. So, I'll hold off on it. Also Celebi happens to completely wreck Cottonee.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:24:50 PM	#52
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,960	Can't you disable chansey very heavily with a good prediction Trick? __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place

Jun 6th, 2011, 11:00:19 PM	#57
CPU Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 439	I'm a pretty bad player but I used CB Aggron on a Trick Room team and it hits amazingly hard. Granted, the only move that I ever really used was Head Smash, but it's very difficult to take that hit. I will say that it's likely outclassed by Rhyperior (though it too suffers from a myriad of weaknesses), but Steel typing and naturally impressive Defense helps it a bit. __________________ Still a novice after 12 years.

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:52:56 AM	#60
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,034 Sea Forest	Cofagrigus got a lot of usage at the beginning of the meta... well we'll see how it fares this round. I'm going to back Oglemi on Jinx being pretty underwhelming. No for now really... I saw maybe 1 or 2 Aggron in an entire round of play so, :/ Escavalier, Cobalion and Rhyperior do it better basically. Blastoise is awesome. edit: On the subject of Bulky Water types, Poliwrath should probably get an analysis (though it's not a MAJOR UU Poke, it's pretty good-- about the same level of usefulness as something like Scollipede). It's Circle Throw hits way harder than Blastoise's Dragon Tail, and makes is a real threat to many teams. It's resistances to Dark, Bug, Steel, Fire, Ice and Water Absorb give it great resistances in the meta, letting it switch in frequently and spam its STAB Phaze attack. It's an almost complete stop to Escavalier, Bisharp, Heracross, Cobalion, Snorlax, Houndoom, and further checks Arcanine, Victini, Mamoswine and fellow bulky water-types like Suicune. RestTalk + Circle Throw + Filler is the best set, but it can run a support set with Circle Throw, Toxic, + 2 attacks. __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..." Last edited by Chou Toshio; Jun 7th, 2011 at 1:03:14 AM.

Jun 7th, 2011, 1:26:48 AM	#61
prem failed abortion Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,222 <@Sarenji> anyway i learned knitting pretty fast <@Sarenji> because im a woman Mentor	in lieu of poliwrath, how about throh with its massive defenses? i havent personally tried it, so im not going to vouch for it though __________________ +Yamata no Orochi: I don't get pussy

Jun 7th, 2011, 1:28:49 AM	#62
Chou Toshio Hmmm... A name for the plan... Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,034 Sea Forest	What makes Poliwrath good though is its useful resistances, because added resistances to Fire, Ice and Steel are huge in UU. I've talked to Oglemi more though and we're going to hold off on Poliwrath for now. It does stuff, but it's not quite "there." __________________ "Hmmm... a name for this plan..."

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:23:19 PM	#51
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	yeah I just saw Blastoise in action and it was damn impressive. EDIT: Also added Scolipede.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:26:56 PM	#53
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	So can any other Psychic-type from Hypno and Grumpig to Chimecho. Doesn't mean I'll let them get an analysis atm.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:29:37 PM	#54
ParaChomp Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 596 Row! Row! Fight the power!	Cofagrigus? Amazing bulk, great ability, Calm Mind. With its ability, Slaking comes to mind.

Jun 6th, 2011, 10:50:43 PM	#56
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Dusclops, Dusknoir, Froslass, and Mismagius > Cofragrigus. So no.

Jun 6th, 2011, 11:13:57 PM	#59
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Yeah I'm not saying that neither Aggron nor Cofragrigus are bad, just not good enough to warrant an analysis atm. Anyway after talking on IRC I'm adding Hariyama to the list EDIT: Also Kabutops and Omastar

Jun 7th, 2011, 2:15:36 AM	#63
*Birkal We have the technology. Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,070 The Mentor	What about Lanturn? Even though its stats aren't the greatest, it has an excellent movepool and can provide its team with an invaluable Heal Bell. It gets great coverage with Ice / Electric / Water and can run a variety of sets. It's essentially the Rotom-W of UU without as much bulk. __________________

Jun 7th, 2011, 2:33:51 AM	#64
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	I haven't seen a single Lanturn thus far, and tbh, I've always found its tanking abilities slightly underwhelming. There's just too much stuff that's better than it atm (Empoleon, Suicune, Chansey, Slowking) that it's not worth doing right now. And if it was the Rotom-W of UU, it'd be fucking everywhere believe you me.

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:19:36 PM	#65
black_cotton Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 475 It's Show Time.	I think Hitmonlee could be added. Sure it has -5 points in atk than Gallade; but is 7 points faster and has acess to arguably better priority moves (Mach punch/Sucker Punch). A life orb revenge killer or even a scarf set outspeeding things that gallade and heracross can't could be considered too. Finally, it got the improved Hi Jump Kick, which if I'm not mistaken, got the Reckless Boost. Something that differs him even more from Gallade and Heracross.

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:28:42 PM	#66
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Hitmontop is infinitely better than Hitmonlee. Hitmonlee is just too frail for this metagame and really isn't that good. Sure he has some perks over Heracross for a choice set, but Heracross ultimately does it better.

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:33:28 PM	#67
GtM Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 720 The Gastronomicon	I think Gastrodon deserves an analysis for a number of reasons. Gastrodon is simply an excellent check to Victini, Arcanine, Zapdos and Nidoking . A 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 56 SpD Modest spread with Leftovers is never 2HKO'd by LO Victini's V-Create or Zen Headbutt, and always survives Final Gambit if it hasn't taken prior damage. LO Arcanine can't 3HKO with Flare Blitz or 2HKO with Close Combat, and with lowered defenses both are take out by Surf with certainty, unless Victini has HP investment for some reason. If it does, it's Trick Room Victini, and that could mean it's in a whole other world of trouble. Zapdos can't do shit to Gastrodon without HP Grass or Toxic, and even then HP Grass doesn't OHKO Gastrodon without a Life Orb. Nidoking can't take out Gastrodon with a combination of Ice Beam + Earth Power, so basically Gastrodon can switch in on any attack other than Earthpower and KO 100% of the time with Surf. LO Kingdra is also walled, it can't OHKO with Draco Meteor and Gastrodon can just heal off the damage. I don't think Quagsire could manage any of this so it's definitely not outclassed imo. Storm Drain's buff also makes Gastrodon a great check to bulky Waters that lack Toxic, Protect can be used if necessary to scout for Toxic or HP Grass. Sand Force can also be used to give Gastrodon an effective base 130 attack stat when using Earthquake or Stone Edge with a max attack Curse set. And Sticky Hold as usual is useful at rebuking Trick users like Deoxys-D. Of course, I'm not biased at all... lol. __________________ Triple Double! Gyarados + Salamence RMT Red Skull's Army! Latias RMT I Burrascusi Italiani! Gyarados + Jolteon RMT "How does this team fare against Sun teams? I would give Scizor Aqua Jet over Bug Bite so he can pick off those fire pokemon."

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:40:19 PM	#68
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Yeah if I'm allowing Quagsire, Gastrodon should get one too. OK

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:42:19 PM	#69
Ubiquitous Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 94	I nominate Crustle to be added - He's the only pokemon that I know of who has Spikes AND Stealth Rock on the same set down here, plus he has Sturdy and can run Mental Herb to prevent Taunt. I've used him to great success in OU as well. Oh yeah, and he has Shell Smash. Just saying. __________________ Sarcasm never comes off very well on the internet... :-(

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:43:42 PM	#70
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Crustle also has a crap typing and is still pretty slow even after a Shell Smash. I haven't been impressed by one yet, and Deoxys-D gets both Spikes and Stealth Rock.

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:53:07 PM	#71
Galladiator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,874 Waiting for the winds of change to sweep the clouds away	Here we go again. I'm making a case for Luxray. (Eh, if someone can bring up Combusken, then why not.) Besides its standard wallbreaking capabilities, Luxray also got two new toys to play with: Guts and Wild Charge. It can run a pretty awesome physical set with Flame Orb, Wild Charge, and Facade. __________________ 14:15 Ragnarokalex i do believe its time to hit some children with sticks

Jun 7th, 2011, 12:57:36 PM	#72
Ubiquitous Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 94	Adamant 252 Spe Crustle can outrun positive base 120's after a Shell Smash, so it's not THAT slow.. Anyway, Cottonee? Bit hopeful, but with Eviolite it has defenses similar to Whimsicott and with lower HP has a higher % recovery every turn with Leech Seed. __________________ Sarcasm never comes off very well on the internet... :-(

Jun 7th, 2011, 1:07:41 PM	#73
Raikoben Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 47	I think that crobat with his super speed and having Hypnosis, Nasty Plot and Taunt in its move list is the perfect counter to Ferrothorn and Foretress. 1 Nasty Plot and thenyoou can taunt it but Crobat already has a good +450 SpA and Heat Wave in its moveset. Bye bye steel starter. Dark pulse+1 Nasty Plot break with Taunter Azelf. Sludge Bomb is the Stab move to complete the Sweeper moveset. With this crobat at the begining of the battle only Blissey and priority move users can stop it

Jun 7th, 2011, 1:26:11 PM	#75
*Oglemi they call me... THE OGLEBOMB Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,571 ~(^.^)~	Luxray - No. Even Electivire > Luxray Cottonee - imo Jumpluff > Cottonee, and I don't have Jumpluff on the priority list. Cottonee to me just seems too gimmicky, and while I don't doubt it can be effective, I haven't seen one used to success thus far. So, I'll hold off on it. Also Celebi happens to completely wreck Cottonee.