Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[Orange Peel]

I need some opinions on the potential of a Singles team. It's pretty much just a classic setup and sub Uxie team, but I'm casting what seem to be pretty original characters otherwise:

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
EVs: Hp, Defense, Sp Defense
Levitate

Trick
Memento
Thunder Wave
Flash
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
???
EVs: ???
??? (Sand Veil / Hyper Cutter)

Substitute
Swords Dance
Acrobatics
Earthquake
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Adamant
EVs: Hp, Defense, Sp Defense, Attack
Sand Stream

Substitute
Dragon Dance
Stone Edge / Rock Slide
Crunch/ Outrage
__________________________________________________ ________________________________
There's obviously the weakness to water as it is, but I'm not learned enough to identify any other technical or strategic flaws.

[Chinese Dood]

You will have a lot of trouble with water types if you are using two pokemon weak to water.

I used Tyranitar as set up sweeper before in 4th Gen, and you really want Crunch + Earthquake, because Stone Edge (or even Rock slide) missing will stop your streak sooner than you'd like. Also, Crunch + EQ has better coverage anyway (You could go for Rock slide + EQ for even better coverage, but you don't really want to take your chance at accuracy issues). You do not want Outrage for Tyranitar without Lum and without STAB.

Gliscor is not really fast enough to pull off sweeps imo. You're better off with Garchomp and even then it's not as reliable as Gen IV.

Uxie can make better use of Bold or Calm nature, but if you only have a timid one then, that's fine, not too huge of a deal I don't think.

So yah I'd advise using something over Gliscor that can cover for Tyranitar's weaknesses. You have fighting and kind of Ground covered with Uxie, so try to cover as many of Ttar's other weaknesses with your other pokemon (i.e. cover grass, water, steel, bug...) o yah, Uxie will attract some bug moves, and really, Gliscor won't be able to set up on something like tinted lens Yanmega Bug Buzzes. You might not be able to cover everything, but at least use something resisting bug that at least resists at least some of TTar's other weaknesses and is neutral to the others.

Hope that helps.

[eitleon]

RAGE!
I got over 49 the first time in doubles. the very effing first time, was already at sixty-something with relative ease... When my NDS froze. ARGH!

Whatever, this is what I'm running, will breed Garchomp for better Nature though - or outright learn to RNG to get near flawless stuff, because this here... sucks.. :D
Will post the full roster now so I'll just copy and paste when I get a valid record. Also, please read this somewhat RMT-ish, thank you. :D






Kingdra "NEREIDE" (F) @ Life Orb
Nature: Modest
Ability: Swift Swim
IVs: Don't know exactly, something like 30/31/31/x/14/27
EV: 252/0/0/252/0/4
L50: 181/103/115/158/106/103
Moves:
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect

He's MVP obviously. Due to only being weak to Dragon and considerable bulk, he is sure to take town at least two Pokemon. Protect on the first turn if something outspeeds and has a chance to K.O. (which is likely with all the Dragons), otherwise attack right away with the appropriate move. He usually dies to a few hits from something neutral as I can take out most Dragons before they commence destroying me. Plus Life Orb recoil. Used to run Lum Berry as the enemy likes to status, but if I face a status user, Kingdra is alomst exclusively burned and rarely Toxiced. I've been Paralyzed twice in those 60 battles. Of course, Kingdra is dead once it's paralyzed, but when I get lucky, I can still use protect while the opponent tries to get rid of the weakened Kingdra, which allows my Jellicent to dish out a small but imporant amount of damage. His problem is: even with Swift Swim, he's outsped by a lot. Haven't faced OHKO users until now - except for Scarf Pinsir which used X-Scizor for whatever reason. Probably will change this so he can outspeed Garchomp 4 which will need some Speed investment, but will leave enough to get a little bit of extra bulk.


Jellicent "PURUPURU" (F) @ Damp Rock
Nature: Bold
Ability: Water Absorb
IVs: Don't know really.
EV: Not sure about those anymore either. Something like 252HP and rest between Def and SpD
L50: 205/66/134/105/124/78
Moves:
- Recover
- Energy Ball
- Scald
- Rain Dance

Thought about replacing Scald with Water Spout, but everytime I seriously contemplated that, Scald Burn kicked in and "saved the day". Also Storm Drain Gastrodon will laugh at me if I do.
It's bulk is pretty good, though of course with my mediocre IVs, 205/134/124 is just enough to get Rain Dance up, at least it always has been. It has never been knocked out before doing so. It got killed on second turn occasionaly, usually to Strong Grass types and once to Shadow Sneak Spritomb which wouldn't have been able to KO if Shadow Sneak wasn't a priority move. Energy Ball is to cover Seismitoad (pops up very often), Gastrodon (occasionally) and Swampert (once). While not being able to OHKO, it helps because I would be totally walled by these guys.
I still hate Empoleon's guts though.


Garchomp "KAUGUMMI" (M) @ Lum Berry/Choice Scarf
Nature: Naive (lol)
Ability: Sand Veil
IVs: 31/31/11/x/31/31
EV: 104/252/0/0/0/152
L50: 196/182/105/93/94/155
Moves:
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Protect/Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance/Stone Edge

Yeah, this Garchomp was bred to be a Garchomp that could outspeed and OHKO Garchomp 4 with Scarf and Draco Meteor, but I've had better plans for him it seems. Scarf saved my ass once, Lum Berry SD several times, so I'll be working on this guy I think. apart from that, he's good and dragging his own weight. Will still go with Jolly 4/252/0/0/0/252 or something, will take a look at the speed tiers first to determine its actual speed EVs.


Kabutops "KABUKA" (F) @ Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Swift Swim
IVs: 23/31/25/x/27/31
EV: 16/252/0/0/0/240
L50: 133/183/122/64/88/130
Moves:
- Hone Claws
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Brick Break

If it gets close, he either becomes MVP or goes down without doing crap. :D
Hone Claws to ensure Stone Edge hits, Focus Sash to get that Hone Claws in if there's no priority user. Speed EVs ensure to outspeed the whole subway in rain. Hits hard, especially after a Hone Claws. Being part rock sucks, being quad weak to grass even more. Still he's the one to take on most Grass types for some reason, probably because +1 Stone Edge can take most of them out.
Would be replaced by Swift Swim Poliwrath immediately if I had access to it.


Problems obviously are Water and Grass types, as Ice Beam only packs enough power to kill stuff quad weak to it and most grass types are way too bulky to go down easily. Legendary teams have only been a problem twice, both times because of damn Suicune and its freeze hax. I also hate Spiritomb and Gengar, as they severely dent Jellicent. And last but not even to close least steeltypes, Empoleon, Magnezone - and especially one guy: Ferrothorn. This thing rapes me. Backwards downwards upwards and from every other direction imaginable. Seriously, the only thing I can do is muscle my way through with +4 Outrage or pray to dent it with Brick break. Faced it only once luckily and I needed a combination of Outrages and Brick Breaks to do shit.

@Orange Peel:
You will lure out Water and Ice types a lot, I would really suggest replaying either Tyranitar or Gliscor. My personal opinion is: Get rid of Tyranitar, it is way to prone to Priority. Why don't you get a water type or something?

[Orange Peel]

Wow, I didn't actually expect a response. This is all hypothetical, so I can pretty much use any advice I get. Thanks!

[Orange Peel]

Say I got rid of T-tar for a water type, then. What would you suggest? I'm just thinking that Gliscor's lack of immediate offensive effectiveness would require a relatively powerful partner.

[eitleon]

Well, on first thought, I'd say Gyarados is a viable option. Can set up, but hits hard without the setup anyway. Resists Bug and water - and Gliscor is immune to Electric and neutral to Rock. You wouldn't have an Ice resist though. Also maybe Empoleon, but he's weak to Ground and Fighting, which sucks. Still all its weaknesses are covered by Gliscor and vice-versa. You even get a quad-Ice and Dragon resist.

[yaya0]

The problem with Empoleon is that the AI tends to BS HAX it too much.

[haggarduser]

I'm thinking I'll get fairly far with this new team I raised up:

Scizor w/ Razor Claw
Adamant Nature, Technician
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Speed
Bullet Punch
Superpower
Pursuit
U-turn

Chansey w/ Eviolite
Bold Nature, Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def, 252 HP, 6 Sp. Def
Seismic Toss
Softboiled
Thunder Wave
Toxic

Octillery w/ Leftovers
Serious Nature, Moody
EVs: 252 HP, 1xx Atk, 1xx, Sp. Atk
Substitute
Protect
Surf
Return


I don't have choice band yet for scizor, but razor claw is working well. Any change suggestions are welcome.

[UpsideDownHitmontop]

@haggarduser: Night slash is better than pursuit for the battle subway. They rarely switch.

[Cl0wn]

Originally Posted by Fat UpsideDownHitmontop

@haggarduser: Night slash is better than pursuit for the battle subway. They rarely switch.

And Arial Ace is even better due to the Technician boost, ability to kill double team users and able to kill fighting types. Dark will only hit SE on psychic pokes and you already have U-turn (or bug bite) for that purpose ;)

[haggarduser]

Awesome, thanks guys. I'll keep you posted on results.

[humpy92]

I am trying to develop a team for singles, i have a few different pokes i can use but would like some suggestions about which 3 to use.



Jolteon w/focus sash
Timid ~ Volt Absorb
Evs 252Spe/252SpA/4HP
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Magnet Rise
-Hidden Power Ice

Starmie w/Leftovers
Modest ~ Natural Cure
Evs 252Spe/252HP/4SpA
-Psychic
-Surf
-Recover
-Rapid Spin (probably not needed for subway)

Dragonite w/Shell Bell
Mild ~ Inner Focus
Evs Dont Know
-Outrage
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Hyper Beam
*He needs some work on him

Scizor w/Razor Claw
Adament ~ Technician
Evs 252Att/252Spe/4HP
-X-Scissor
-Night Slash
-Brick Break
-Bullet Punch

Terrakion w/???
Jolly ~ Justified
Evs 252Att/252Spe/4HP
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Retaliate
-Sacred Sword

Mamoswine w/Leftovers
Jolly ~ Oblivious
Evs 252Spe/252Att/4Def
-Toxic
-Ice Shard
-Take Down
-Earthquake

Thanks!

[Zacchaeus]

I definitely don't think you've been in the competitive scene for long, no offense. Keep in mind there is an item clause in Subway

Jolteon: Magnet Rise seems kind of gimmicky but I won't say that it can't work
Starmie: You really won't need Rapid Spin, and I'm not sure what a fast bulky Starmie is trying to accomplish other than surviving to throw out a Rapid Spin. So I suggest Timid or Modest 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP Surf Psychic/Ice Beam Thunderbolt Recover/Ice Beam. Recover just doesn't seem very useful to me.
Dragonite: Unless you are using Heal Bell, Dragonite generally doesn't run Inner Focus any more. Hyper Beam is a terrible move, never use it. Based on your other moves, I would suggest Earthquake as a 4th move. And Dragonite probably needs some Speed so I would do Hasty 252 Spe 252 SpA 4 Atk for more Speed, or Mild 252 Spe 208 Spa 48 Atk for even SpA and Atk
Scizor: With Technician you use Bug Bite, not X-Scissor. I would suggest dropping the Dark move and adding Swords Dance though
Terrakion: Terrakion can run a Life Orb if you can't think of anything else. And although Retaliate is quite strong on its initial use, it really can only be used once unless you switch Terrakion back out. And a neutral Stone Edge still hits harder than a boosted Retaliate. Also consider Close Combat for this set
Mamoswine: A Jolly Ice Shard really won't hurt much, and Take Down isn't a good move. Consider using Adamant and consider Icicle Drop, Superpower, Stone Edge, and Endeavor. Toxic is kind of purposeless

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat humpy92

I am trying to develop a team for singles, i have a few different pokes i can use but would like some suggestions about which 3 to use.



Jolteon w/focus sash
Timid ~ Volt Absorb
Evs 252Spe/252SpA/4HP
-Thunderbolt
-Volt Switch
-Magnet Rise
-Hidden Power Ice

why Volt Switch and Magnet Rise... you can just do Wish + Volt Switch instead.

Starmie w/Leftovers
Modest ~ Natural Cure
Evs 252Spe/252HP/4SpA
-Psychic
-Surf
-Recover
-Rapid Spin (probably not needed for subway)

Rapid Spin is pointless, BS doesn't have hazards. Needs boltbeam definitely, drop either Psychic or Surf.

Dragonite w/Shell Bell
Mild ~ Inner Focus
Evs Dont Know
-Outrage
-Thunderbolt
-Surf
-Hyper Beam
*He needs some work on him

1. Multiscale
2. Hyper Beam = no.
3. this guy definitely needs a LOT of rework.

Scizor w/Razor Claw
Adament ~ Technician
Evs 252Att/252Spe/4HP
-X-Scissor
-Night Slash
-Brick Break
-Bullet Punch

CB > Razor Claw. Unless you don't have PtHGSS access, Bug Bite > X-Scissor, U-Turn over Night Slash, and Superpower over Brick Break.

Terrakion w/???
Jolly ~ Justified
Evs 252Att/252Spe/4HP
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Retaliate
-Sacred Sword

why retaliate run SD/RP instead, also LO.

Mamoswine w/Leftovers
Jolly ~ Oblivious
Evs 252Spe/252Att/4Def
-Toxic
-Ice Shard
-Take Down
-Earthquake

never used mamo, no comment

Thanks!

[Chinese Dood]

Using Jolteon + Starmie + Dragonite as a team seems ok, though Salamence might be better with Intimidate. Jolteon + Scizor + Dragonite is also fine with the Dragon + Steel resistance combo. If you are using Jolteon-Starmie-Dragonite, Nite should just be physical, or at least it should be primarily physical (but apparently yours is mild, so I'm not sure if you are willing to breed for another one, or just go with Draco Meteor + 3 physical attacks, but without Extremespeed or Superpower it'll be hard to justify using an Inner Focus Nite over Salamence).

I've had success using this Jolteon: Modest @ Choice Specs: TBolt / Volt Switch / HP Ice / Shadow Ball. Modest was fine and just gets me a lot more attacking power, but Timid for outspeeding a few more threats is definitely good as well, so you can give that a consideration. If you are not using Jolteon, then there's less of a need to use Dragonite (for Ground move switching in).

Subway Starmie should ALWAYS be Timid @ Life Orb / Expert Belt / Choice Specs: Surf / Ice Beam / Psychic / TBolt ... You can use Grass Knot instead of TBolt because of Jolteon having TBolt if you want, but other than that, I don't see a reason to use what has been proven to work decently well.

For Scizor, yeah, basically what TM13IceBeam said. If you suck at prediction or just don't want to be choice locked though, you can also try SD > U-Turn and hold a Lum Berry or Sash or what have you. I'd use Lum myself since this is the thing to switch in for ice moves (assuming no Starmie) and freeze hax is annoying. Also, Scizor's lack of speed means it is prone to status as it SDs. There also seems to be more Swagger users in the subway than before, so you can use that to your benefit. If you ARE using Swords Dance instead of Choice Band, then there's less of a need for Superpower > Brick Break, but either are still fine.

I would advise having at least ONE (probably at most 2) stat boosting moves (like Dragon Dance / Swords Dance / Calm Mind) in your team for you to fight against defensive pokemon that will otherwise wall you, UNLESS you put toxic on something, but not mamoswine. If you are going the toxic route (for one pokemon), you need that pokemon to be fairly bulky to begin with. I've had success with a defense-oriented Gyarados and Eviolite Porygon2 as well as Calm Mind Suicune. Others who posted records also had success with Milotic. Keep in mind that there are a number of stat boosters in the subway that have rest also, so toxic might not be the answer to all defensive pokemon.

One last thing is, if you're not using Jolteon, Terrakion is fine, as its fighting, ground, grass, and water weaknesses are all covered fairly well by Dragonite. In that case Dragonite can be mixed. Stone Edge is going to end your streak earlier than you'd like when it misses, so I'd just recommend Rock slide instead, and even that misses plenty. Swords Dance over Retaliate is recommended. Focus Sash or Life orb are your best bets.

Only use Mamo if you are not using Jolteon but still want a Twave immunity. I would put a sash on this guy, unless you want to be able to guarantee OHKO on most of the dragons without being choice locked... then you use Ice Gem. Ice Shard and EQ are a must. You kind of want to be Adamant though.

Anyway, those were just my random initial blabbering thoughts that came to mind as I read. Hope it leads you somewhere and good luck.

If those pokemon were all I had I would probably use Choice Specs Jolteon, some sort of mix Dragonite (*might* even use a choice scarf one... speed is really important), and SD Scizor.

[Neotornado]

Say, I've been trying to use an unconventional team (IE, no one in the top 15 pokemon) on the subway, and this seemed like my best bet. however, it didn't even clear 30, any hints on how I can improve this team?

Ambipom w/focus sash
Adamant ~ Technician
Evs 252Spe/252Atk/4HP
-Double hit
-fake out
-aerial ace
-low sweep
Standard stuff for ambipom. aerial ace and low sweep take advantage of technician's boost, while retaining their great secondary effects. (aerial ace never missing, and low sweep's speed decrease) fake out is a base 90 BP move that causes the opponent to flinch, and also gives me a gauge on whether double hit will OHKO or not, seeing as each hit does slightly less than the fake out did. even if it dosen't OHKO, I do have the speed to get a second hit on.

Sigilyph w/Life orb
Timid ~ Magic guard
Evs 252Spe/252SpA/4HP
-Psychic
-Air slash
-Ice beam
-Energy ball
Standard magic guard abuser. It's moveset is pretty wide, but I do find myself walled by a couple of things (steels, mainly) I was thinking of replacing ice beam with charge beam, but I'm not 100% sure of it.

Jolteon w/air balloon
Timid ~ Volt absorb
Evs 252Spe/252SpA/4HP
-thunderbolt
-Shadow ball
-Signal beam
-Wish
The only eeveelution I could really work into this. (vaporeon and espeon are nice, but neither one really translates well into the battle subway...) my only real regret with this one is that wish is 100% wasted. but at the same time I kinda can't bear to let it go. mostly because jolteon has a terrible movepool. the air balloon HAS won me battles. one example was being against a steelix who's only attacking move was earthquake.

That's about it. I think my record was 24 wins. any hints on how I can improve this?

[Chinese Dood]

Hi Neotornado, I will try to help you.

I don't feel like typing up in any nice format, so I will just give my comments and suggestions in point form in no particular order:
Comments:
- Return > Double Hit. The little bit of extra power from Double Hit will not make a difference, but a miss from Double Hit will.
- I personally tried Aerial Ace and U-Turn and found U-Turn to be more useful, just for some small damage and switch out, because Aerial Ace was almost never used. THEN again, I was using Silk Scarf instead of Focus Sash (Silk Scarf Return is 102 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 183, while a super effective Tech AA is only 60 * 1.5 * 2 = 180, so Aerial Ace is only better on 4x weak pokemon like Heracross and Breloom, and both of those are guaranteed KOs from Fake Out + Return).
- You will need a harder physical attacker than Ambipom. A set up sweeper might be nice. Otherwise though, Blissey, Snorlax and probably other things will wall you. Ambipom being so frail doesn't really help either. In fact, your entire team are frail sweepers that will not be able to take more than one neutral STAB hit, and sometimes not even. Low Sweep will not do enough. Low Sweep does not even OHKO 252 HP Tyranitar, so that means it always lose to Tyranitar (I always just U-Turn out) unless Stone Edge misses. Low Kick will KO Ttar though, but of course that means you'll need to get another Ambipom from Gen IV.
- I'm not a huge fan of Sigilyph because damage output is not that amazing even with the life orb. That's not the biggest problem of course. The bigger problem is that it's not fast enough. It has decent speed, but will be outsped rather often. Yes, Magic Guard + Life Orb is cool, but if it is going to die to one hit anyway, life orb recoil does not matter at all, so you're better off using a LO Starmie or Latios for faster attacks. I know, those are fairly unoriginal pokemon to use, but there's a reason why they work.
- I really question the usefulness of Wish for Jolteon in this team simply because ... everything is too frail, as mentioned.

Team Recommendations:
- You should use only one out of those 3 pokemon and then 2 other pokemon that are probably slightly bulkier. I would definitely choose either Ambipom or Jolteon because something like LO Starmie pretty much outclasses Sigilyph. Of course you can use LO Starmie too, in which case that's like replacing your entire team, so I'm sure you don't want that. I'm biased more towards using Jolteon because I've had more success with it, but Ambipom is pretty good too. If you DO take up my suggestions for Ambipom though, I'd recommend @Silk Scarf with Fake Out / Return / U-turn / Low Sweep or Low Kick if you can. If you're not going to be taking any hits anyway, you might as well boost up your fake out + Return which will KO plenty of things that do not resist.
- I mentioned this for the previous person too. You probably want something bulky with toxic, or something bulky with stat boosting moves (Calm Mind / Curse / Dragon Dance / Swords Dance most likely). You can also put sash on the stat booster if it's hard enough attacking and fast enough (like Garchomp or Terrakion). If you look at the top 10 records in the first page, you'll see that every team has either a bulky or sashed stat booster or something bulky with Toxic, or both.
- From what I recall, Curse Ferrothorn, Calm Mind Suicune, Toxic Milotic, SD Garchomp/Scizor are probably the most common ones on the records so far. I personally used a bulky DD Gyarados and a Toxic Eviolite Porygon2 in the same team for my recent 178 streak. If you are using Ambipom, having a fighting resist set-upper is probably a good idea (i.e. not Ferrothorn). If you are using Jolteon, having a ground immune for setting up is probably good (Salamence/Gyarados maybe).
- Forgot to mention (well, I guess I did touch briefly on it), one big problem with your current team is that it can't easily beat steel types. Like... if Jolteon's balloon is popped, there's nothing in your team that can take on steelix at all (or if it can, what if another steel type like Magnezone comes out?). Most steel types are fairly bulky on the physical side, so low sweep will not do enough damage to even 2HKO.

I could give more specific suggestions, but then it will probably just end up being something like my Jolteon-Gyarados-Porygon2 team, lol, since it worked well enough for me. So, well, I gave enough suggestions and hope you'll find something you can try out on your own.

Good luck!

[Neotornado]

before I might as well dissect this, I absolutley love whenever people take the time to write out posts like this. I really prefer it over tiny ones. XD anyway...

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Hi Neotornado, I will try to help you.

I don't feel like typing up in any nice format, so I will just give my comments and suggestions in point form in no particular order:
Comments:
- Return > Double Hit. The little bit of extra power from Double Hit will not make a difference, but a miss from Double Hit will.
~ Good point. double hit does have the advantage of being multi-hit, but it's a lead. so I can easily do that replacement.
- I personally tried Aerial Ace and U-Turn and found U-Turn to be more useful, just for some small damage and switch out, because Aerial Ace was almost never used. THEN again, I was using Silk Scarf instead of Focus Sash (Silk Scarf Return is 102 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 183, while a super effective Tech AA is only 60 * 1.5 * 2 = 180, so Aerial Ace is only better on 4x weak pokemon like Heracross and Breloom, and both of those are guaranteed KOs from Fake Out + Return).
~ Another fine consideration. I never paid U-turn much thought since it didn't get the technician boost, but it IS a very useful move, so again, easy replacement.
- You will need a harder physical attacker than Ambipom. A set up sweeper might be nice. Otherwise though, Blissey, Snorlax and probably other things will wall you. Ambipom being so frail doesn't really help either. In fact, your entire team are frail sweepers that will not be able to take more than one neutral STAB hit, and sometimes not even. Low Sweep will not do enough. Low Sweep does not even OHKO 252 HP Tyranitar, so that means it always lose to Tyranitar (I always just U-Turn out) unless Stone Edge misses. Low Kick will KO Ttar though, but of course that means you'll need to get another Ambipom from Gen IV.
~ ah. that's where the focus sash comes in, and I HAD low kick until everyone told me to replace it with ankle sweep. big oops on my part, as it now seems.
- I'm not a huge fan of Sigilyph because damage output is not that amazing even with the life orb. That's not the biggest problem of course. The bigger problem is that it's not fast enough. It has decent speed, but will be outsped rather often. Yes, Magic Guard + Life Orb is cool, but if it is going to die to one hit anyway, life orb recoil does not matter at all, so you're better off using a LO Starmie or Latios for faster attacks. I know, those are fairly unoriginal pokemon to use, but there's a reason why they work.
~ I've actually had siggy survive through some super effective attacks, so you never know... but on your considerations, I DO have starmie, but not latios. (and my starmie set is the standard surf/thunderbolt/ice beam/psyshock set everyone uses, so maybe it's a good replacement?)
- I really question the usefulness of Wish for Jolteon in this team simply because ... everything is too frail, as mentioned.
~ As i mentioned, wish is only there due to lack of a move to put there, and the fact that if I do replace it, it's gone forever.

Team Recommendations:
- You should use only one out of those 3 pokemon and then 2 other pokemon that are probably slightly bulkier. I would definitely choose either Ambipom or Jolteon because something like LO Starmie pretty much outclasses Sigilyph.
~ Fair enough. I should have figured personal preference got you no where (especially when your favorite is something as crappy as leafeon)
- Of course you can use LO Starmie too, in which case that's like replacing your entire team, so I'm sure you don't want that. I'm biased more towards using Jolteon because I've had more success with it, but Ambipom is pretty good too.
~ At this point, an entire team swap doesn't sound too bad, as I'm not heavily invested in any of these 3 anyway.
- If you DO take up my suggestions for Ambipom though, I'd recommend @Silk Scarf with Fake Out / Return / U-turn / Low Sweep or Low Kick if you can. If you're not going to be taking any hits anyway, you might as well boost up your fake out + Return which will KO plenty of things that do not
resist.
~ I still have to admit that I double-take every time I see silk scarf recommended over another item, like the previously mentioned life orb, but it's an option.
- I mentioned this for the previous person too. You probably want something bulky with toxic, or something bulky with stat boosting moves (Calm Mind / Curse / Dragon Dance / Swords Dance most likely). You can also put sash on the stat booster if it's hard enough attacking and fast enough (like Garchomp or Terrakion). If you look at the top 10 records in the first page, you'll see that every team has either a bulky or sashed stat booster or something bulky with Toxic, or both.
~ ah. usually when I use those they tend to get hit with things they can't bounce back from (if your wondering, the 3 mains walls I've used are standard ferrothorn, throh, and several evolite pokemon) all 3 got consistently outsped, and killed by something powerful (or just fall to hax)
- From what I recall, Curse Ferrothorn, Calm Mind Suicune, Toxic Milotic, SD Garchomp/Scizor are probably the most common ones on the records so far. I personally used a bulky DD Gyarados and a Toxic Eviolite Porygon2 in the same team for my recent 178 streak. If you are using Ambipom, having a fighting resist set-upper is probably a good idea (i.e. not Ferrothorn). If you are using Jolteon, having a ground immune for setting up is probably good (Salamence/Gyarados maybe).
~ Generally, from what I've seen, I'm trying to avoid the whole "for instant win, just ad dragons" thing. despite that, milotic seems like a good compromise, despite salamence fitting both slots AND being trained in-game.
- Forgot to mention (well, I guess I did touch briefly on it), one big problem with your current team is that it can't easily beat steel types. Like... if Jolteon's balloon is popped, there's nothing in your team that can take on steelix at all (or if it can, what if another steel type like Magnezone comes out?). Most steel types are fairly bulky on the physical side, so low sweep will not do enough damage to even 2HKO.
~ I have seen both of those, and siggy outpowered them both (with psychic and ice beam) but again, they have been major problems.

I could give more specific suggestions, but then it will probably just end up being something like my Jolteon-Gyarados-Porygon2 team, lol, since it worked well enough for me. So, well, I gave enough suggestions and hope you'll find something you can try out on your own.

Good luck!

so simply put, back to the drawing board, and scrap the siglyph completley. as for who I'm gonna keep, seems like ambipom has my pick. and back in tower days I used hetrain, vaporeon, and salamence and got over 50. should I build on that or go with what I have? anyway, I'll revamp the team (IE scrap about 85% of it and start over with more OU pokemon) and get back to you.

[Chinese Dood]

Ambipom + Vaporeon (I'm assuming it's bold or Calm?) + Salamence sounds like it can work. In that case Jolteon might work better than Ambipom though, being faster and harder hitting and having the nice electric immunity switching in on electric attacks aimed at Vaporeon. But sure, Ambipom's fine too.

(Probably something like this can work? Just my initial thought: Vaporeon @ Leftovers - Scald or Surf / Toxic / Wish / Filler=(Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Sub/Acid Armor)

Also, I suggest... you edit your post to not quote my long post :P.
EDIT: actually lol nevermind lol, I didn't realize you put your comments on it as well... sorry.
EDIT2: Just want to say, Eviolite P2 is amazing if you haven't tried it yet :P. Just don't leave it against STAB fighting types. After an intimidate (if you use Salamence) it easily stalls out plenty of things with Toxic + recover. Two back to back fighting move crits can kill you, sure, but it doesn't happen that often. Plus, there's trace that lets you wall so many things. ... obviously wouldn't recommend Ambipom + Porygon2 together though.

[humpy92]

Thanks Zac,Ice Beam and Chinese Dood for your help! No im only just starting to get into competitive battling. Dragonite was an ingame poke that i like using so thats way he is abit odd atm. Im trying to get enough bp to buy the choice items etc. so this will help, thanks

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Neotornado

before I might as well dissect this, I absolutley love whenever people take the time to write out posts like this. I really prefer it over tiny ones. XD anyway...

so simply put, back to the drawing board, and scrap the siglyph completley. as for who I'm gonna keep, seems like ambipom has my pick. and back in tower days I used hetrain, vaporeon, and salamence and got over 50. should I build on that or go with what I have? anyway, I'll revamp the team (IE scrap about 85% of it and start over with more OU pokemon) and get back to you.

if you want a Sigilyph use the Psycho Shifter set. It's quite fun, but its super stallish and can take a while to win games.

Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
Bold nature
Magic Guard
252 HP/(some amount of EVs in defense, special defense and speed)

--Psycho Shift
--Roost
--Cosmic Power/Calm Mind
--Stored Power

This set is walled by Houndoom, but other than that its fun to setup to +6 on things and become virtually unkillable. Psycho Shift away on physical attackers to take their attacks easier, Roost when low on HP, and the Flame Orb keeps you safe from status.

[ashez]

hello there :) got another streak to write up, not as high as i had hoped but o well least i broke 100 :) so here we go -

Team:

Lead 1 and 2:

Name:Azelf
Item:Life Orb
Nature:Timid
Evs:252SPA/252SP/4HP
Moves:
1. Thunderbolt
2. Grass Knot
3. Flamethrower
4. Psyshock (is psychic better? any help lol)

Name:Garchomp
Item:Focus Sash
Nature:Jolly
Evs:252A/252SP/4HP
Moves:
1. Protect
2. Earthquake
3. Rock Slide
4. Dragon Claw
Lead Description

so theres my leviquake leads.the evs and nature of these leads are for obvious reasons so wont discus them. they both work well together due to fact on any ice poke chomp can protect while with GK/FT/TB azelf hits all ice types hard, and was the reason i chose azelf in truth. i wanted a poke who could handle chomps weaknesses. only problem with azelf is it brings a horrible sucker punch weakness but its somewhat ok. obviously weavil is the bane of these two because unlike most ice types he doesnt always go for chomp so can be kinda nervous times lol.

The Back Up:

Name:Thundurus
Item:Expert Belt
Nature:Timid
Evs:252SPA/252SP/4HP
Moves:
1. Thunderbolt
2. Hidden Power Ice
3. Grass Knot
4. Psychic
Description

this is 9/10 my next poke in functions well with either lead. moveset is kinda basic and same with evs and nature. i chose EB to hit alittle harder and due to the fantasic coverage its worked out good, even tho zapdos is one my favorite pokes this totally outclasses it although i do sometimes miss not having a fire move on here :(. i'm pretty happy with this set but think if i try again i'm going to replace psychic due to it hardly being used but not sure what to due to its limited move pool, protect is an option due to if i had protect i wouldnt have lost when i did lol.

Name:Scizor
Item:Metal Coat
Nature:Jolly
Evs:252A/252SP/4HP
Moves:
1.Swords dance
2.Bug Bite
3.SuperPower
4.Bullet Punch
Description

Then this final meber of the team handles everything thats a problem with its priority (will list few problem pokes at end) again pretty standard, it does the job well but not happy with it as it is. debating about replacing SD with protect so it can work alongside chomp easier and semi considering droping its speed or just switching to adamant. only used SD once in streak, Bug bite was very usefull agaisnt dark types bothering azeld and then we all love BP ha!

so yeah theres the team pretty basic but does the job well and sure i'l get a decent streak with it soon.


Threat list (off top my head might miss a few)

• Gengar
• Froslass
• Weavil
• areodactyl
• Archeops
• lapras due to need GK and RS to hit to KO
• scarf pinsir
• sucker punch
• scrafty
• Ice teams can be problematic
• pokes with intimidate mainly salamance because DC isnt a KO.
• Dragon teams can be awkward specially ones with fire to hit scizor

All i can think of atm prob add few in if i remember.

out that list i'd have to say scrafty is one the worst specially if it gets a bulk up, i've concidered putting a fighting move on leads but cant fit one in. the rest are normally cleaned up with BP from scizor on few these i will switch azelf out but depends who there partner is.

now to hope i lost - kinda missplay and hax rolled into one :(

My Team Vs Glaceon - Gyarados - Pinsir - Braviary

1. protect with chomp. TB and ko gyarados. glaceon blizzards and gets azelf down to red health
2. (in switches pinsir) Pinsir kos azelf with x-scissor. chomp rocks slides doing around half to each. glaceon blizzards chomp to sash.
3. chomp protects. Scizor BP glaceon to around 1HP. Glaceon Blizzards scizor. pinsir attacks protected chomp.
4. BP pinsir. pin kills chomp. glaceon blizzards scizor again.
5. (i switch thundurus in) BP pinser for KO, TB glaceon for a MISS, glaceon blizzards both for KO...i loose.

was kinda unlucky with a miss due to being able to handle braviary at the end. also kinda missplayed i shoulda focus fired on glaceon but i saw chance to ko both took it and got screwed lol. if i had protect i on thundurus and scizor i coulda stalled out that last turn blizzard as well. but yeah thats my loss.

nearlly lost few turns b4 that when it ended up scizor vs a 2curse steelix. i new my only chance was to set up along side and hope superpower was enough. i got to plus six and then he confused me so was on the edge was up to hax i couldnt afford to hit myself and i did first time and did over half to myself then thankfully 2nd hit and 3rd i snapped out. was very nervous haha!

anyway cheers for reading any help or opionions be great cheers :) and good luck to everyone :)

[~Mercury~]

Battle Subway Singles
Streak: 156
Team: Gengar, Garchomp, Suicune

I tried some new teams in Subway Singles, but none really worked well, so I gave my Gengar/Garchomp/Suicune team a second chance.

But before I begun, I changed the movesets a bit:

Garchomp now has a Choice Band and Outrage and Rock Slide instead of Sub and SD, because Suicune stops most Ice types easily so Garchomp doesn't really need the Yache Berry because I will usually switch anyway. The CB provides significantly more power, which helps to directly OHKO a lot of opponents, and the lock doesn't matter very often because Garchomp mostly uses Outrage anyway. Probably it would be better to use Fire Fang instead of Dragon Claw (or Rock Slide, I think I used both only once) to handle Ferrothorn better, but I was always able to kill it without Fire Fang.

Suicune now has Sub instead of Ice Beam, because it allows me to set up without fearing crits so much, and it also protects from status (which is useful because the opponents often use status even against a sub) and makes it even easier to stall out the PP of dangerous moves, especially OHKO moves. Furthermore, if Suicune gets set up to +6/+6 (what happens relatively often, since Suicune can set up on so many opponents), I can also set up a substitute, which protects it from at least one attack from the next opponent. If Suicune gets fully set up, the risk to lose the battle is minimal, so I try to set up with it as often as possible.

Gengar's moveset remained unchanged.


So here's the current version of the team:
Gengar@Focus Sash
Timid 4/0/0/252/0/252
Levitate
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond

Garchomp@Choice Band
Jolly 4/252/0/0/0/252
Sand Veil
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide

Suicune@Chesto Berry
Bold 252/0/252/4/0/0
Pressure
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Substitute
- Rest

As I said, I try to set up Suicune as often as possible. So, if the opponent leads with something Suicune can set up on without a (notable) risk, I directly switch to Suicune and boost until I have +6/+6, a sub and full oder almost full HP. If the opponent has something Suicune cannot deal with but Garchomp easily can (usually opposing electric types, which would be annoying for Gengar due to the paralysis chance), I switch to Garchomp (except Gengar is faster and can OHKO the opponent, of course). If neither Suicune nor Garchomp can handle the opponent, I 2HKO him with Gengar, if possible. If Gengar cannot 2HKO him or cannot OHKO him and is slower, I use Destiny Bond to kill him.
If Gengar has OHKOed an opponent, I decide as above, what I do next.
If Gengar has 2HKOed an opponent (or OHKOed a faster one) and is weakened, I use Destiny Bond, if neither Suicune nor Garchomp can easily kill this opponent, otherwise I switch to the appropriate pokemon.
If Gengar killed an opponent with Destiny Bond, I always send in Garchomp, because it can directly OHKO lots of opponents and I can Suicune bring in safely in almost all opponents dangerous for Garchomp anyway, while this doesn't work so well the other way round due to Garchomps worse defensive stats compared to Suicune. Furthermore, Suicune does not have the immediate power and so many opponents with boost moves can set up on it, and then Garchomp would be almost useless because it cannot hurt opponents with lots of boosts from Curse, Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance and others, which means I lose if they beat Suicune. If I directly attack with Garchomp, almost every opponent is at least 2HKOed and so they cannot gain many dangerous boosts.


I lost to against an opponent using Heracross, Toxicroak and Volcarona:
Gengar got a Shadow Ball Crit on Heracross, it survived with ~5 % and its Salac berry boosted its speed, Megahorn brings Gengar down to ~55 %. Then it uses Endure, and it has 1 HP left after the next Shadow Ball.
After that, it uses Megahorn again, Gengar survives with ~10 % and KOes Heracross.
Then Toxicroak is sent in, I switch to Garchomp, his Gunk Shot misses. Earthquake OHKOes.
Opponents sends in Volcarona, Earthquake does ~70 %, Volcarona uses Quiver Dance.
Then it is faster and kills Garchomp with a Bug Buzz crit. (while it recovers some HP with Leftovers)
I send in Suicune, he uses Bug Buzz, Suicune survives with ~55 %, SDef Drop, Suicune Calm Mind.
Again Bug Buzz, Suicune Rest, Chesto Berry wakes it up.
Another Bug Buzz, Suicune Calm Mind.
If I attacked the next two turns, I would have won, I think, but I used Calm Mind again, while he boosted with Quiver Dance.
Then he 2HKOed Suicune with Bug Buzz and killed Gengar with Heat Wave.


Video of Battle #157: 62-87645-09795

...

---

[kuladiamond]

Hello all,

New to the thread and I've been going with this team to 79 before beaten:

Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf
Bold 252 HP / 220 Spe / 36 SpDef
-Trick
-T-Wave
-Flash
-Overheat

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Adamant 252 HP / 168 Def / 188 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Sub
-Waterfall
-Stone Edge

Bisharp @ Blackglasses
Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
-Swords Dance
-Sub
-Sucker Punch
-Night Slash

The idea here is to trick scarf the first poke which rotom will outspeed up to base 130 and then depending on the results; to either t-wave and proceed to flash. Due to the new mechanics, the first pokemon might get the scarf and be locked into non-damaging moves (i.e. curse or t-wave). I will still t-wave whether it switches or not. If it stays in, it'll get paralyzed and I'll continue to t-wave until it switches out. Then the incoming poke will get paralyzed (unless it's ground type and then I flash). From my perspective, I'd have crippled 2 pokemon. If rotom gets KO'd by locked water or rock moves (which is hit SE against) by the first poke, then switch to Gyarados or Bisharp respectively. I know that this team is prone to crit hax but I am going by my pokes' resistances. Haven't faced either Tornadus or Thundurus as leads which can priority taunt and ruin my strategy, but have been lucky not to face them.

My IVs are 31 for:
Rotom on Speed
Gyarados on HP, Def, Speed
Bisharp on Atk

The rest are mediocre since I only go by the IV checker in-game (the Battle Subway person).

Will try to post picture, and any thoughts on my team?

Greatly appreciate it.

P.S. anyone here knows about jumpman16's streak on D/P/Pt (the infamous Mesprit / Garchomp / Drapion team that got to 2300+ wins) is it still active?

[Neotornado]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Ambipom + Vaporeon (I'm assuming it's bold or Calm?) + Salamence sounds like it can work. In that case Jolteon might work better than Ambipom though, being faster and harder hitting and having the nice electric immunity switching in on electric attacks aimed at Vaporeon. But sure, Ambipom's fine too.

(Probably something like this can work? Just my initial thought: Vaporeon @ Leftovers - Scald or Surf / Toxic / Wish / Filler=(Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Sub/Acid Armor)

Also, I suggest... you edit your post to not quote my long post :P.
EDIT: actually lol nevermind lol, I didn't realize you put your comments on it as well... sorry.
EDIT2: Just want to say, Eviolite P2 is amazing if you haven't tried it yet :P. Just don't leave it against STAB fighting types. After an intimidate (if you use Salamence) it easily stalls out plenty of things with Toxic + recover. Two back to back fighting move crits can kill you, sure, but it doesn't happen that often. Plus, there's trace that lets you wall so many things. ... obviously wouldn't recommend Ambipom + Porygon2 together though.

Funny. I DID try P2E afterwards, and it was effective, even if it out overpowered a couple of times (toxic, burn, what have you) and it did make an effective trick roomer. although the trick room + sally doesn't mix well. (actually, my moveset's TR, recover, tri-attack, and HPwater) so... yeah. my porygon2 would NOT fit well on the team. XD maybe replace TR and HPwater with boltbeam? I'd be walled by magnezone, but that's what sallyquake is for! and my main vaporeon's modest, unfortunately. so I have sally and porygon2. (sally = salamence. XD) I'm thinkin' something like heatrain for slot 3, but that's more of a lead than anything. so far my considerations are...
heatrain (many resistances, and sub has WRECKED a few people before.)
Jolteon (fast and decently powerful. SIGN ME UP.)
Scoliopide (to throw toxic spikes up, which would make toxic on porygon2 not required)
Ferrothorn (for leech seed. plus he and sally combine well.)
Suicine (vaporeon but faster. and with less HP. and with more defense.)
Gengar (because I can just off myself when I'm close to death. always a win)
and throh (also bulky. plus there's phazing with circle throw.)
any ideas on which one I should use?