Zoroark discussion

[A e t h e r]

I'm surprised this hasn't been made yet. My personal favorite Gen 5 Pokemon should have it's niche in UU with all of the Psychics and pesky flaming faries running rampant.

Zoroark
Dark
HP: 60
Atk: 105
Def: 60
SpA: 120
SpD: 60
Spe: 105

Moves (Notable ones in bold/italics):
Level up:

...

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U-turn, Scratch, Leer, Pursuit, Hone Claws, Fury Swipes, Faint Attack, Scary Face, Taunt, Foul Play, Night Slash, Torment, Agility, Embargo, Punishment, Nasty Plot, Imprison Night Daze

TM/HM:

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Hone Claws, Calm Mind, Roar, Toxic, Hidden Power, Sunny Day, Taunt, Hyper Beam, Protect, Rain Dance, Frustration, Return, Dig, Shadow Ball, Double Team, Flamethower, Aerial Ace, Torment, Facade, Rest, Attract, Thief, Low Sweep, Round, Focus Blast, Fling, Incinerate, Embargo, Shadow Claw, Payback, Retaliate, Giga Impact, Swords Dance, Psych Up, Grass Knot, Swagger, U-Turn, Substitute, Rock Smash, Snarl, Cut

Breeding:

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Detect, Captivate, Dark Pulse, Snatch, Memento, Shadow Claw, Extrasensory, Counter

Possible sets:

Revenge killer:

Zoroark @Choice Scarf
Timid/Naive
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Dark Pulse/Night Daze
Flamethrower
Focus Blast
Hidden Power Ice/U-turn

Nasty Plot:

Zoroark @Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Timid
4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast
Flamethrower
Nasty Plot

Swords Dance:

Zoroark @Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Naughty/Naive
252 Atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 Spe
Sucker Punch/Night Slash
Low Sweep
Flamethrower
Swords Dance

...Specs?:

Zoroark @Choice Specs
Timid
4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Dark Pulse/Night Daze
Flamethrower
Focus Blast
Hidden Power Ice

With good offensive stats and a somewhat shallow, but reasonable movepool, Zoroark makes up for this with it's ability to run mindgames and possibly even strike paranoia into your opponent. Zoroark's acceptable speed can also outrun a good portion of the metagame and makes for a decent revenge-killer/disruption Pokemon all thanks to Illusion. However it's frailty and defensive typing won't allow it to last very long without much team support.

Discuss.

[PlatinumDude]

How about a Counter-Sash set?:
-Counter
-Taunt
-Sucker Punch
-Memento
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
Item:Focus Sash
IVs: 0 Def

It's a bit gimmicky at best. (credit to Serebii for the set)

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

I use a variation of the Nasty Plot strategy, but with HP Ice instead of Focus Blast (I don't have the luck to use inaccurate moves). I disguise it as a Conkeldurr to lure out Psychics. Slower Psychics allow me to use Nasty Plot twice before sweeping!

The reason I use a Conkeldurr disguise is because I don't like Infernape. Nonetheless, I understand that Infernape is the best partner for Zoroark because it has many common moves (the only move not common in this set is Dark Pulse).

[A e t h e r]

Originally Posted by Fat No. 1 Machop Fan

I use a variation of the Nasty Plot strategy, but with HP Ice instead of Focus Blast (I don't have the luck to use inaccurate moves). I disguise it as a Conkeldurr to lure out Psychics. Slower Psychics allow me to use Nasty Plot twice before sweeping!

The reason I use a Conkeldurr disguise is because I don't like Infernape. Nonetheless, I understand that Infernape is the best partner for Zoroark because it has many common moves (the only move not common in this set is Dark Pulse).

That's pretty great and all, but the only problem being that this an UU discussion... almost, just almost made it to OU though, judging from the usage statistics in this forum.

[Pentao]

It can do similar things to Houndoom with a Nasty Plot/Dark Pulse (or Night Daze)/Flamethrower/Sucker Punch set. It hits harder with it's dark type attacks, but Houndoom's Flash Fire and Fire STAB make it a bit more desirable IMO.

Still, this thing has great coverage, hits hard and fast, and is definitely a UU threat.

[Gerard]

I would say it does almost everything better than houndoom, since outside of STABed fire attack, he has a way better speed (with most good pokes staying at 100 speed) and it helps making your opponent think you're "smart" enough to send a nidoking against mew, because they saw you had zoroak in TP they use aura sphere and you get a free kill

[No. 1 Machop Fan]

Originally Posted by Fat A e t h e r

That's pretty great and all, but the only problem being that this an UU discussion... almost, just almost made it to OU though, judging from the usage statistics in this forum.

Oops, completely forgot... :s *hides in total shame at act of stupidity*

[Cherub Agent]

houndoom is definetly a better NPer than Zoroark. His Fire STAB makes all the difference, and he can use the more powerful Fire Blast. Not to mention his Fire immunity. Zoroark however is a brilliant all-out attacker, be it Choice Scarf/Specs or Life Orb (which is a set I tnink should go up there). SD sucks

[blooby]

I use extrasensory over nastyplot to hit supereffective on fighting types

[PokéMontage]

Oops, completely forgot... :s *hides in total shame at act of stupidity*

There are, of course, Fighting-types in UU as well. You could still attempt to disguise Zoroark as them.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Fat blooby

I use extrasensory over nastyplot to hit supereffective on fighting types

Doesn't a NP-boosted Focus Blast do a number on those already? (assuming it hits) If Extrasensory were to be used, then it should be over Flamethrower. Other than hitting Fighting Pokemon, it really doesn't see much use.

Can Grass Knot also be used to hit bulky Waters for supereffective damage? Just a thought.

[GTS]

Originally Posted by Fat PlatinumDude

Doesn't a NP-boosted Focus Blast do a number on those already? (assuming it hits) If Extrasensory were to be used, then it should be over Flamethrower. Other than hitting Fighting Pokemon, it really doesn't see much use.

Can Grass Knot also be used to hit bulky Waters for supereffective damage? Just a thought.

well, they are weak to grass so i'd venture to say: "yes"

[Himanattsu]

Originally Posted by Fat PlatinumDude

Can Grass Knot also be used to hit bulky Waters for supereffective damage? Just a thought.

With light, bulky walls like Quagsire and Lanturn in UU, you wouldn't be wanting to carry it around. As if Zoroark wasn't suffering enough from moveslot syndrome as it is, it cann't afford to waste the moveslot for a situational move like GK.

[jas61292]

It is just my personal opinion that the sets at the top are pretty accurate as far as moves and stats. While there are a few moves that could be slashed, I think those may be the best sets already. What I really think needs discussing more is how to use Zoroark. People keep throwing around the whole "use it as a Fighting type to lure out the Psychics" thing. And you know what, from personal experience, that strategy is complete garbage. I have used it, and it fails. I have faced it, and only once has a Zoro ever survived the first turn. It simply doesn't work. Maybe if it wasn't for Team Preview it would, but when you know there is a Zoro, why would you risk letting it beat you with such an obvious strategy. So you just attack. If it is an Illusion, Zoro is dead. Its defenses are so pathetic that almost any attack can OHKO it, even some NVE attacks. So no, you cannot try to draw NVE attacks. It simply does not work.

The best way to use it, in my experience is to force switches and, more importantly status moves. I have been using the NP set, but without the Life Orb. The best item I have found for it is a Lum Berry. I often disguise it as a Suicune or a Weavile. Suicune draws lots of Toxic, and Weavile draws lots of T-waves and WoWs. And with Weavile especially, him and Zoro often force the same switches, so opponents are even less likely to stay in. But no matter weather they switch or not, if you ca get a free set up turn on a status move, that my just be the best possible situation for Zoroark.

[CrazyBacon]

I personally love using this pokemon. Send it out disguised as an arcanine, use flamethrower and watch the slowbro come in. Dark Pulse for the KO and your Physical sweepers have a much easier time sweeping. I always get a 'lol' out of my opponent when his slowbro gets eaten alive by zoro. Team preview doesnt kill zoro whatsoever since you can send it in during anytime.

[aish]

I love Zoroark, I disguise him as a gengar sometimes in OU and people try to use psychic, and I also have him hold a dark gem for extra power on dark pulse (I use it over night daze because it can cause flinching)
the moves I use are Focus blast, dark pulse, extrasensory and nasty plot.
I also disguise his as espeon to scare off entry hazards.

[AJC]

team preview does hurt it because if they see it they know you have it.

zoroark only really works if the foe doesn't pay attention to details like SR damage.

[verbatim]

Chances are, if you disguise him as a shedinja, you get at least one free turn to nasty plot as they switch to their shedinja killer, only to find out that its a +2 zoroark.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat verbatim

Chances are, if you disguise him as a shedinja, you get at least one free turn to nasty plot as they switch to their shedinja killer, only to find out that its a +2 zoroark.

except since we all know that Shedinja is basically fodder without a spinner and something to change the weather against the occasional Hail team, it might not be that effective.

[Downf4ll]

I love how troll Gamefreak is, releasing Zoroark in the same generation as Team Preview.

Regardless though, Zoro is a good poke. He's like, a special Weavile (as in specially based, not 'short bus' special); it's a mission to set up, but if you manage it you've made quite a big hole in your opponent's team.

jas is right though; luring in NVE attacks or psychics is a fucking stupid idea. Use him to force switches, and capitalize on that. Using him to lure is almost as stupid as putting psyshock on Reuniclus.

[Byrn Dragonstone]

I love how much people underestimate this guys ability. I have one word of advice, use U-Turn. Flygon/Crobat/Zoroak/Azelf/Raikou/Jolteon/Zapdos(Volt Changers)/Whatever can carry Volt Change/U-turn. Then start using that move to rack up damage and confuse the crap out of people. Zoroak makes it so much fun as they come in to wall your Flygon with a steel only to eat a Flamethrower. Then you U-Turn out to continue the madness later. Hazard support is this guys biggest ally, as he causes a lot of switches. And a spinner of course.

[lmitchell0012]

Team preview has made life a living hell for this guy. Poor zoroark...

[King John]

The mind games this fox plays is just unreal. I got fooled by one that was disguised as a Dragonite....

But I digress. I once ran this set and disguised it as Thundurus...

Zoroark @ Life Orb
252SpAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Nature: Modest

Trait: Illusion
Nasty Plot
Focus Blast
Dark Pulse
HPIce

It actually worked....till I used Dark Pulse.

[BTzz]

^Thundurus is OU -_-

I also think you guys are focusing to much on Illusion. Base 125 SAtk + 100 Atk is great regardless if your illusion is broken or not. Illusion is nothing more then a bonus. I play Zoroark like any other sweeper, if a Pokemon on my team happens to make for a good illusion then great. I'm just not going out of my way to make to get a good Zoro disguse when there are better options in that slot.

[sandstreamftw]

Team preview was created because of zoroark.