B&W Research Thread - Page 103

TM13IceBeam · Jul 3rd, 2011, 6:21:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Jac

The Eviolite: It grants 50% boost to Def and SDEf to NFE pokemon.

I want to know if the case is true for pokemon who don't evolve. I've searched the whole Eviolite thread and didn't find anything...

basically if its something that can evolve, like Bulbasaur, Charmeleon or Scyther, they get the boost. if its something that doesn't evolve, like Blastoise, Scizor or Chatot, it doesn't.

Jac · Jul 3rd, 2011, 2:15:20 PM

Ahhh... well I thought that if they didnt evolve yet, then they can use it,. =\ that sucks in a way. I was gooing to abuse it on Druddigon or something without an evolution. Oh well..

Thanks a lot!

MeroMero · Jul 7th, 2011, 11:40:47 AM

BW end of turn effects

Notable changes compared to DPPt end of turn effects :
_ Sandstorm and Hail damage occur before Wish;
_ Future Sight and Doom Desire strike before Wish and Leftovers recovery (actually they strike before any kind of recovery);
_ Since Healing Wish and Lunar Dance effects now occur at the very end of the turn, they are naturally added to the list;
_ Confusion message coming from the rampaging moves Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage no longer occurs at the end of turn but rather immediately once the last attack is performed, hence why they don't appear on this list; though Uproar still does.
_ The former DPPt "priority 6" end-of-turn group literally exploded, with nearly each move that it used to contain now belonging to their own priority bracket.

CPU · Jul 7th, 2011, 12:43:02 PM

So, just to be certain, Healing Wish and Lunar Dance heal before entry hazard effects are applied, correct?

MeroMero · Jul 7th, 2011, 1:24:31 PM

^
Yes they will, that also implies that neither Healing Wish nor Lunar Dance can be used to "dodge" entry hazards.

mien · Jul 9th, 2011, 3:25:45 AM

Thank you for compiling the list of B/W end of turn effects, it must have taken quite some time to do all of this by yourself.

Solar Power appears to be the only one missing however, care to confirm that it is also residing in the 2.0 bracket?

MeroMero · Jul 9th, 2011, 7:29:31 AM

My bad, I knew I was forgetting something but I couldn't put my finger on what.

Anyway, Solar Power is indeed residing in the priority 2 bracket, and while I was at it I took the occasion and grabbed my 2 DS to test the very last group (the 28 bracket) since there is no way to test it correctly in-game, and found out that :
_ "Pokémon is switched in" is still 28.0 but alone (didn't expect that, this caught me off guard);
_ Lunar Dance and Healing Wish group is really 29.0;
_ Entry hazards group is really 29.1.

I edited my previous post to correct those mistakes.

breh · Jul 13th, 2011, 4:03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bunny

Okay, I'm very very sorry if the topic is posted at the wrong place. But I really wasn't sure where to put this.

Just a simple question.

The move Haze in a rotation battle.
Does it affect all the pokemon that are sent out in battle or only the 'active' pokemon?

Like for instance, my wigglytuff which has been rotated out got a speed drop. If I use haze on my active pokemon, will wigglytuff's stat drop vanish?
(The same with the opponent's team)

If opponent has a pokemon with stat change rotated out, does haze still affect that pokemon?

alphatron · Jul 13th, 2011, 4:20:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat CPU

So, just to be certain, Healing Wish and Lunar Dance heal before entry hazard effects are applied, correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

^
Yes they will, that also implies that neither Healing Wish nor Lunar Dance can be used to "dodge" entry hazards.

So this means that if I use healing wish on a pokemon with 3% of it's health, healing wish will heal the pokemon BEFORE the spikes take any effect?

CPU · Jul 13th, 2011, 6:26:46 PM

Yes.
Personally, that makes them much better than if they got hit by the hazards before they were healed.

Jaxx · Jul 17th, 2011, 3:28:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat mien

Are 'Rotation' and Switching' on the same priority level?

I setup a rotation battle with the following Pokemon on each team:
2 Shaymin
2 Celebi
2 Jirachi

For this explaination let's call them team A and team B

Team A and B Shaymin had equal speed.
Team A Celebi was slower than team B Celebi
Team A Jirachi was faster than team B Jirachi

Both teams led with shaymin.

Turn 1
Team A rotated to Celebi while team B switched to Celebi
Team B switched first.

Turn 2
Team A rotated to Jirachi while team B switched to Jirachi
Team B switched first.

Turn 3
Team A rotated to Shaymin while team B switched to Shaymin
Team B switched first.

Turn 4
Team A switched to Celebi while team B rotated to Celebi
Team A switched first.

Turn 5
Team A switched to Jirachi while team B rotated to Jirachi
Team A switched first.

Turn 6 Team A switched to Shaymin while team B rotated to Shaymin
Team A switched first.

This concludes that switching and rotating do NOT share the same priority level with rotating always happening second to switching.

Mr_br_kill · Jul 17th, 2011, 4:21:28 PM

How is it decided which player switchs first?

poccil · Jul 17th, 2011, 4:33:36 PM

There are no "priority levels" with rotating and switching out. Rather they can be considered two different phases of the round. This is analogous to the card game Magic: The Gathering, which include a "main phase" and a "combat phase".

The order in which two or more Pokemon switch out during the "switching out" phase of a round is determined by priority; that is, according to their Speed and other effects that cause a Pokemon to strike before other Pokemon.

Jaxx · Jul 17th, 2011, 5:02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat poccil

There are no "priority levels" with rotating and switching out.

Why can't the term priority be used? Since switching always occurs first, by definition it does have a higher priority.

poccil · Jul 17th, 2011, 7:45:36 PM

Jaxx:

Because in my opinion, it's more appropriate to call "switching" and "rotating out" merely two different phases of a round, much like the "command phase" (at the beginning of a round), "attack phase", and "end of round phase". (See my timing page). I use the term "priority" to mean only the priority level of moves (for example, Quick Attack has a priority level of 1 and Trick Room has a priority level of -7) and sometimes the turn order of attacks. You of course may use the word "priority" how you want.

**jas61292** · Jul 17th, 2011, 11:06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat poccil

Jaxx:

Because in my opinion, it's more appropriate to call "switching" and "rotating out" merely two different phases of a round, much like the "command phase" (at the beginning of a round), "attack phase", and "end of round phase". (See my timing page). I use the term "priority" to mean only the priority level of moves (for example, Quick Attack has a priority level of 1 and Trick Room has a priority level of -7) and sometimes the turn order of attacks. You of course may use the word "priority" how you want.

The main reason one would use priority instead of phase is because of Pursuit, which can come before switches, is an attack.

Speaking of which, if Switches come before Rotations, what happens when you use Pursuit in a Rotation Battle with a Pokemon that in Rotating in, against a Pokemon that is Switching out?

Jaxx · Jul 18th, 2011, 4:07:41 AM

jas61292:

I did test this but it must have slipped my mind. Since rotation happens second the moves priority does not activate making the following scenario take place:

Team A called back Celebi!
Team A sent out Shaymin!
Team B rotated into Scizor!
Team B's Scizor used Pursuit!

Just to clarify, Pursuit's BP wasn't doubled.

breh · Jul 18th, 2011, 10:27:06 AM

imagine this double battle scenario: (teams are A and B)

Pokemon A1 uses Wide Guard
Pokemon B1 KOes A1
Pokemon B2 uses a multitarget move (for example, struggle bug)

Is pokemon A2 (the remaining one) damaged or not? Basically, does a user of wide guard have to be alive for wide guard to protect the teammate?

poccil · Jul 18th, 2011, 11:35:23 AM

Breludicolo:

I've tested that. In this case, Wide Guard is still in effect even after its user faints.

MaestroXXVI · Jul 18th, 2011, 10:42:41 PM

...

Uhhh...i hate to be blunt, but why did this happen? I thought destiny bond didnt work on the turn after it was used if the user outsped its opponent on the turn it was used

(and before anyone asks, i used substitute because I was pp stalling it until it couldnt destiny bond any more)

**Mario With Lasers** · Jul 18th, 2011, 11:04:41 PM

It's until the Destiny Bond user attacks again. That's how Custap Wobbuffet works, in fact: Destiny Bond when you are at <25%; if they attack, they die; if they set up on you, they attack you the next turn and then die, because now Wobbuffet will be slower and thus, Destiny Bond will still be in effect; if they try to set-up again, you use Encore and now they're forever fucked.

***RBG**** · Jul 18th, 2011, 11:05:54 PM

1) Don't rely on a simulator for your mechanics. That being said...

2) It is correct. Destiny Bond is active until your opponent actually uses (or fails to use) a move.

MaestroXXVI · Jul 18th, 2011, 11:55:10 PM

ah, thanks...and it was less of a 'rely on simulator for mechanics' than it was a 'make sure simulator isnt making a mistake'

good to know for the future, thanks guys

Tortferngatr · Jul 20th, 2011, 1:16:12 PM

BTW, does Substitute prevent No Guard from working?

Jaxx · Jul 20th, 2011, 2:10:15 PM

Tortferngatr:

Tested. Sub doesn't stop No Guard from working. Also this kind of question is better asked here.

Jul 3rd, 2011, 2:15:20 PM	#2552
Jac Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 46 ~I am thou, and thou art me~	Ahhh... well I thought that if they didnt evolve yet, then they can use it,. =\ that sucks in a way. I was gooing to abuse it on Druddigon or something without an evolution. Oh well.. Thanks a lot! __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H5pYCw4ET4 [22:00] <Zelda> greatsage is a newfag compared to me when it comes to showdown

Jul 7th, 2011, 11:40:47 AM	#2553
MeroMero Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 83 Stopped playing Pokémon	BW end of turn effects 1.0 weather ends 2.0 Sandstorm damage, Hail damage, Rain Dish, Dry Skin, Solar Power, Ice Body 3.0 Future Sight, Doom Desire 4.0 Wish 5.0 Fire Pledge + Grass Pledge damage 5.1 Shed Skin, Hydration, Healer 5.2 Leftovers, Black Sludge 6.0 Aqua Ring 7.0 Ingrain 8.0 Leech Seed 9.0 (bad) poison damage, burn damage, Nightmare, Poison Heal 10.0 Curse (from a Ghost-type) 11.0 Bind, Wrap, Fire Spin, Clamp, Whirlpool, Sand Tomb, Magma Storm 12.0 Taunt ends 13.0 Encore ends 14.0 Disable ends, Cursed Body ends 15.0 Magnet Rise ends 16.0 Telekinesis ends 17.0 Heal Block ends 18.0 Embargo ends 19.0 Yawn 20.0 Perish Song 21.0 Reflect ends 21.1 Light Screen ends 21.2 Safeguard ends 21.3 Mist ends 21.4 Tailwind ends 21.5 Lucky Chant ends 21.6 Water Pledge + Fire Pledge ends, Fire Pledge + Grass Pledge ends, Grass Pledge + Water Pledge ends 22.0 Gravity ends 23.0 Trick Room ends 24.0 Wonder Room ends 25.0 Magic Room ends 26.0 Uproar message 26.1 Speed Boost, Bad Dreams, Harvest, Moody 26.2 Toxic Orb activation, Flame Orb activation, Sticky Barb 27.0 Zen Mode 28.0 Pokémon is switched in (if previous Pokémon fainted) 29.0 Healing Wish, Lunar Dance 29.1 Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Stealth Rock (hurt in the order they are first used) Notable changes compared to DPPt end of turn effects : _ Sandstorm and Hail damage occur before Wish; _ Future Sight and Doom Desire strike before Wish and Leftovers recovery (actually they strike before any kind of recovery); _ Since Healing Wish and Lunar Dance effects now occur at the very end of the turn, they are naturally added to the list; _ Confusion message coming from the rampaging moves Thrash, Petal Dance, and Outrage no longer occurs at the end of turn but rather immediately once the last attack is performed, hence why they don't appear on this list; though Uproar still does. _ The former DPPt "priority 6" end-of-turn group literally exploded, with nearly each move that it used to contain now belonging to their own priority bracket. Last edited by MeroMero; Jul 9th, 2011 at 7:30:11 AM.

Jul 7th, 2011, 12:43:02 PM	#2554
CPU Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 439	So, just to be certain, Healing Wish and Lunar Dance heal before entry hazard effects are applied, correct? __________________ Still a novice after 12 years.

Jul 13th, 2011, 6:26:46 PM	#2560
CPU Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 439	Yes. Personally, that makes them much better than if they got hit by the hazards before they were healed. __________________ Still a novice after 12 years.

Jul 17th, 2011, 4:21:28 PM	#2562
Mr_br_kill Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 227 The jets are back home in Winnipeg!	How is it decided which player switchs first? __________________ I will probbaly post all wifi battles I have to my YouTube account Mrbrkill. Pease check me out at http://www.youtube.com/user/Mrbrkill?feature=mhum, for everytime my videos are viewed, a puppy's born. If your interested in a wifi uber battle vm me Black fc: 3782 9616 0417

Jul 7th, 2011, 1:24:31 PM	#2555
MeroMero Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 83 Stopped playing Pokémon	^ Yes they will, that also implies that neither Healing Wish nor Lunar Dance can be used to "dodge" entry hazards.

Jul 9th, 2011, 3:25:45 AM	#2556
mien Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 643 Belgium	Thank you for compiling the list of B/W end of turn effects, it must have taken quite some time to do all of this by yourself. Solar Power appears to be the only one missing however, care to confirm that it is also residing in the 2.0 bracket?

Jul 9th, 2011, 7:29:31 AM	#2557
MeroMero Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 83 Stopped playing Pokémon	My bad, I knew I was forgetting something but I couldn't put my finger on what. Anyway, Solar Power is indeed residing in the priority 2 bracket, and while I was at it I took the occasion and grabbed my 2 DS to test the very last group (the 28 bracket) since there is no way to test it correctly in-game, and found out that : _ "Pokémon is switched in" is still 28.0 but alone (didn't expect that, this caught me off guard); _ Lunar Dance and Healing Wish group is really 29.0; _ Entry hazards group is really 29.1. I edited my previous post to correct those mistakes.

Jul 17th, 2011, 4:33:36 PM	#2563
poccil Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 398	There are no "priority levels" with rotating and switching out. Rather they can be considered two different phases of the round. This is analogous to the card game Magic: The Gathering, which include a "main phase" and a "combat phase". The order in which two or more Pokemon switch out during the "switching out" phase of a round is determined by priority; that is, according to their Speed and other effects that cause a Pokemon to strike before other Pokemon. __________________ Peter O. of The Ultimate Pokemon Center (Make a donation)

Jul 17th, 2011, 7:45:36 PM	#2565
poccil Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 398	Jaxx: Because in my opinion, it's more appropriate to call "switching" and "rotating out" merely two different phases of a round, much like the "command phase" (at the beginning of a round), "attack phase", and "end of round phase". (See my timing page). I use the term "priority" to mean only the priority level of moves (for example, Quick Attack has a priority level of 1 and Trick Room has a priority level of -7) and sometimes the turn order of attacks. You of course may use the word "priority" how you want. __________________ Peter O. of The Ultimate Pokemon Center (Make a donation)

Jul 18th, 2011, 4:07:41 AM	#2567
Jaxx Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 340 Work, work, work.	jas61292: I did test this but it must have slipped my mind. Since rotation happens second the moves priority does not activate making the following scenario take place: Team A called back Celebi! Team A sent out Shaymin! Team B rotated into Scizor! Team B's Scizor used Pursuit! Just to clarify, Pursuit's BP wasn't doubled. __________________ キラリ☆星になる！

Jul 18th, 2011, 10:27:06 AM	#2568
breh Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,934	imagine this double battle scenario: (teams are A and B) Pokemon A1 uses Wide Guard Pokemon B1 KOes A1 Pokemon B2 uses a multitarget move (for example, struggle bug) Is pokemon A2 (the remaining one) damaged or not? Basically, does a user of wide guard have to be alive for wide guard to protect the teammate? __________________ VGC Regionals: VGC11 Top 16, VGC12 12th Place Last edited by breh; Jul 18th, 2011 at 10:42:33 AM.

Jul 18th, 2011, 11:35:23 AM	#2569
poccil Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 398	Breludicolo: I've tested that. In this case, Wide Guard is still in effect even after its user faints. __________________ Peter O. of The Ultimate Pokemon Center (Make a donation)

Jul 18th, 2011, 10:42:41 PM	#2570
MaestroXXVI Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 202	... Start of turn 34 The foe's Froslass used Destiny Bond! The foe's Froslass is trying to take its foe with it! Toxicroak used Substitute! Toxicroak already has a substitute. Hail continues to fall! Toxicroak is buffeted by the hail! The foe's Froslass restored a little HP using its Leftovers! Start of turn 35 Toxicroak used Sucker Punch! It's super effective! The foe's Froslass lost 71% of its health! The foe's Froslass fainted! The foe's Froslass took Toxicroak down with it! Toxicroak fainted! Hail continues to fall! MaestroXXVI: huh MaestroXXVI: oh damn HAIL the king: que? MaestroXXVI: that shouldntve happened MaestroXXVI: i think HAIL the king: yea idk why that happened lol MaestroXXVI: <_< Uhhh...i hate to be blunt, but why did this happen? I thought destiny bond didnt work on the turn after it was used if the user outsped its opponent on the turn it was used (and before anyone asks, i used substitute because I was pp stalling it until it couldnt destiny bond any more)

Jul 18th, 2011, 11:05:54 PM	#2572
*RBG It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything. Super Moderator** Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,229 Home: Goshen Scout Reservation	1) Don't rely on a simulator for your mechanics. That being said... 2) It is correct. Destiny Bond is active until your opponent actually uses (or fails to use) a move. __________________ Alder: N, even if we don't understand each other, that's not a reason to reject each other. There are two sides to an argument. Is there one point of view that has all the answers? Give it some thought.

Jul 18th, 2011, 11:55:10 PM	#2573
MaestroXXVI Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 202	ah, thanks...and it was less of a 'rely on simulator for mechanics' than it was a 'make sure simulator isnt making a mistake' good to know for the future, thanks guys

Jul 20th, 2011, 1:16:12 PM	#2574
Tortferngatr Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,543 United States of America	BTW, does Substitute prevent No Guard from working? __________________ Cookie's law of a forum: as a thread gets longer, the probability of it being derailed by a religion argument approaches 1 If only the max avatar filesize was 90K... \|CAPASB stuff: My CAPASB Team~My reffing profile \|

Jul 20th, 2011, 2:10:15 PM	#2575
Jaxx Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 340 Work, work, work.	Tortferngatr: Tested. Sub doesn't stop No Guard from working. Also this kind of question is better asked here. __________________ キラリ☆星になる！ Last edited by Jaxx; Jul 20th, 2011 at 3:32:20 PM. Reason: Thread changed like 5 minutes after posting >.>