General Metagame Discussion Thread - Page 3

HiddenDragon72 · Jul 1st, 2011, 8:44:10 AM

As an on-again, off-again competitive player I agree that Uber is the most balanced metagame. True my skill level and understanding of the current metagames is lacking compared to, or perhaps in the eyes of seasoned players however even someone like me can see how deceptive OU can be when trying to "trim the fat".

Darthenos · Jul 1st, 2011, 8:47:49 AM

Yea, although many people say that Ubers is just the ban list of OU, it is just as much of a true metagame as OU.
Anyways, Swords Dance Extreme Speed Arceus Kills stuff

Kefka Palazzo™ · Jul 1st, 2011, 1:07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Darthenos

Yea, although many people say that Ubers is just the ban list of OU, it is just as much of a true metagame as OU.
Anyways, Swords Dance Extreme Speed Arceus Kills stuff

Ubers is surprisingly fun and I enjoy it just as much, if not more than OU.
I just wish I didn't have to fight Charizards and Electivires so much >.>

Anyway, Skymin flinches his way to victory for me :L

NotJim · Jul 4th, 2011, 10:52:36 PM

How active is the metagame atm? I'm hearing it's the most stable so want to jump fresh into it (been wanting to try competitive pokemon seriously since gen4) but am wary of activity (or lack thereof).

ZetoTarken · Jul 4th, 2011, 11:19:10 PM

Depends on how many people are actually on and not afk. Chances are 3/4s of the teams are stupid troll teams that you autowin. If you're on at a good time then you can get a solid number of people on, I know a fair number of ubers players are in the SEA/Oceania area.

NotJim · Jul 4th, 2011, 11:54:14 PM

Sweet, I happen to live within that timezone so that works very well then.

shrang · Jul 6th, 2011, 4:02:55 AM

Uh, you know when a metagame is too entry hazard focussed when I have to pull out 252 HP / 252 SpD Calm Latias to check Kyogre instead of Grass Arceus o_0.

Electro Gypsy · Jul 8th, 2011, 7:43:23 PM

Are T.Spikes really becomming THAT common? I haven't been playing too much recently. Perhaps its time to invest a slot for a spinner? Latias just doesn't have the power to really threaten anything, especially with a Max/Max spdef spread. You could always look for setup sweepers to punish teams depending on spikes/tspikes. Sub/CM Giratina O seems particularly promising, especially since most hazard setters can't do anything to it, or can scare them out and is Tspike Immune. Lack of recovery sucks though. Do people not prepare for Sub/Seed Skymin anymore? Every time i get it in safely (vs a Ferro or scaring out a Groudon) it just causes so much trouble

ZetoTarken · Jul 8th, 2011, 8:38:51 PM

Normal spikes are. Standard Support Grass Arceus can come in on Kyogre but with triple spikes is losing over almost half its health when it switches into Surf and can actually be 2hko'd by full power Water Spout with just spikes(Granted you need to roll max both times but still). Oh and this is for ScarfOgre and 252/134 Calm. 252/252Calm dies to Timid SpecsOgre's Water Spout as it is outsped and spikes are godless killing machines. Ferrothorn sets up Spikes so easily and they rack up so much damage when a lot of common pokes are stuck on the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if Spikes are actually more common than Stealth Rock in Ubers at the moment. A lot of checks rely on not losing 1/4 of their HP every time they switch in(Palkia, Groudon, Arceus, TTar, etc.) so having an airborne check is a really good thing to have right now.

ssbbm · Jul 8th, 2011, 8:48:50 PM

Gastrodon checks Kyogre the BEST (except SubCM screw that)
but it lets Ferro come in for free /:
Every Uber team without spinners is at a huge disadvantage against Drown All-esque teams; if you don't have a spinner, you need to be like HO or really spike resistant...

ZetoTarken · Jul 8th, 2011, 9:02:17 PM

And Gastrodon doesn't like switching into Spikes too many times and as you mentioned he basically says come set up spikes on me!

ssbbm · Jul 8th, 2011, 9:04:25 PM

Well with Gastrodon basically you have to Recover and have something that can come in on Ferro and punish the other team for switching it in (Think Sub Ho-oh or Sub Zekrom lol), or else you're screwed.

By the way, does anyone know any good rapid spinners in Ubers?
Excadrill is basically all I use, as it can sweep and it also 2HKOes most spin-blockers

EDIT: oh sorry i didn't see the thread lol

ZetoTarken · Jul 8th, 2011, 9:15:58 PM

Even then you don't to avoid having your substitute user get seeded which means double switching etc. :/

Excadrill is basically the only offensive one the rest are all pretty defensive :/ We need a good offensive Rapid Spinner.

Electro Gypsy · Jul 8th, 2011, 9:51:08 PM

Cloy is decent offensively, but it lacks the ability to really switchin to ANYTHING. Tentacruel does decently too, and is backed by its ability to avoid being 2hkoed by any of scarf ogre/palkia's attacks, but finds itself also being switched into by Ferro :/.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 8th, 2011, 10:25:14 PM

notably nobody uses Rapid Spin on offensive Cloyster, because it mostly rapes stuff already with Shell Smash.

Woodchuck · Jul 9th, 2011, 3:41:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat HiddenDragon72

As an on-again, off-again competitive player I agree that Uber is the most balanced metagame. True my skill level and understanding of the current metagames is lacking compared to, or perhaps in the eyes of seasoned players however even someone like me can see how deceptive OU can be when trying to "trim the fat".

Yeah, I've always been saying it's ironic that we've managed to find a balanced metagame in Ubers despite the entire purpose of OU being to find a balanced metagame. >.>

Metal Bagon · Jul 9th, 2011, 3:51:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Vratix

In fact, Ubers is generally considered to be the game with the most stable metagame. By stable I do not mean dominated, Ubers has a number of equally viable and entirely unique teams.

I completely agree, because even if you do see pure weather teams (not like kyorge coming in mid-game with specs) they will all probably be unique.

However saying that you see several of the pokemon with the same mindset and moveset around, on any team. For example, Ferrothorn will often appear randomly on a rain team and toxic stall you or on a sun team, I've seen a kyogre!

shrang · Jul 9th, 2011, 10:57:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ZetoTarken

Even then you don't to avoid having your substitute user get seeded which means double switching etc. :/

Excadrill is basically the only offensive one the rest are all pretty defensive :/ We need a good offensive Rapid Spinner.

If you want some good offensive ones, you can always run Kyogre, then run one of Kabutops or Armaldo. Kabutops has much better killing power (Better Speed and STAB Waterfall), but Armaldo has better defenses and less weaknesses, allowing you to switch into weak attacks better. A +2 Stone Edge from Kabutops OHKOs standard Giratina-O while Waterfall in the rain ruins Ghost Arceus (Considering SR, of course). If you can't get SD (which can be often), just throw out Waterfalls and Stone Edges depending on their spinblocker since you'll 2HKO them anyway, or if your opponent seems ignorant enough to not know that Kabutops carries Rapid Spin, just use Rapid Spin as they switch in Groudon or something. If normal Giratina comes in, just switch to your own Ferrothorn and set up Spikes in its face. Need Wobbuffet support for maximum efficiency.

waterwarrior · Jul 17th, 2011, 3:47:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat shrang

you can always run Kyogre, then run one of Kabutops or Armaldo.

And then Groudon comes in, takes pseudo-neutral damage from your Water attacks, takes it due to 100/ 140 defenses, and either kills you or forces you out (thus enforcing the balance. w00t!). Kyogre can't exactly come back in and reset rain for free either, EQ hurts. Sure they can spin, but they're easily checked.

Poppy · Jul 18th, 2011, 1:00:50 AM

the fucking point is that they can spin or kill spinblockers

ZetoTarken · Jul 18th, 2011, 5:14:03 AM

More importantly, they discourage pokes from coming in and setting up on them because they can retaliate fairly hard.

TM13IceBeam · Jul 18th, 2011, 5:17:14 AM

Even if Groudon comes in, Kabutops/Armaldo can just spin on the switch, then swap out to their EQ resist. I don't see what's the main issue with Groudon vs. Kabutops/Armaldo.

Olijolly · Jul 19th, 2011, 3:49:46 PM

I'm so A LOT more chomps lately.
I've also seen quite a few tyranitar + subsdchomp combination as well.
What the shit?

Benny in a Jet · Jul 19th, 2011, 5:03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Olijolly

I'm so A LOT more chomps lately.
I've also seen quite a few tyranitar + subsdchomp combination as well.
What the shit?

Well, Sub SD Garchomp was always one of it's more popular sets, and with T-Tar providing sand for the Sp. Def boost as well as Sand Veil hax letting you get a free turn. With Garchomp banned from OU (again), it's only natural that it should appear in Ubers.

ssbbm · Jul 19th, 2011, 8:06:39 PM

Or, it could be that players just use old OU teams in ubers...

Jul 1st, 2011, 8:44:10 AM	#51
HiddenDragon72 Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 75 California	As an on-again, off-again competitive player I agree that Uber is the most balanced metagame. True my skill level and understanding of the current metagames is lacking compared to, or perhaps in the eyes of seasoned players however even someone like me can see how deceptive OU can be when trying to "trim the fat". __________________ Lovely!!!

Jul 1st, 2011, 8:47:49 AM	#52
Darthenos Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 91 Ya tebya lyublyu Nichola	Yea, although many people say that Ubers is just the ban list of OU, it is just as much of a true metagame as OU. Anyways, Swords Dance Extreme Speed Arceus Kills stuff __________________ [20:35:44] Mekkah: childeren in the backseats cause accidents [20:35:51] Mekkah: accidents on the backseat cause childeren

Jul 4th, 2011, 11:19:10 PM	#55
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	Depends on how many people are actually on and not afk. Chances are 3/4s of the teams are stupid troll teams that you autowin. If you're on at a good time then you can get a solid number of people on, I know a fair number of ubers players are in the SEA/Oceania area. __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 8th, 2011, 8:38:51 PM	#59
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	Normal spikes are. Standard Support Grass Arceus can come in on Kyogre but with triple spikes is losing over almost half its health when it switches into Surf and can actually be 2hko'd by full power Water Spout with just spikes(Granted you need to roll max both times but still). Oh and this is for ScarfOgre and 252/134 Calm. 252/252Calm dies to Timid SpecsOgre's Water Spout as it is outsped and spikes are godless killing machines. Ferrothorn sets up Spikes so easily and they rack up so much damage when a lot of common pokes are stuck on the ground. I wouldn't be surprised if Spikes are actually more common than Stealth Rock in Ubers at the moment. A lot of checks rely on not losing 1/4 of their HP every time they switch in(Palkia, Groudon, Arceus, TTar, etc.) so having an airborne check is a really good thing to have right now. __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 8th, 2011, 9:02:17 PM	#61
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	And Gastrodon doesn't like switching into Spikes too many times and as you mentioned he basically says come set up spikes on me! __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 4th, 2011, 10:52:36 PM	#54
NotJim Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 11	How active is the metagame atm? I'm hearing it's the most stable so want to jump fresh into it (been wanting to try competitive pokemon seriously since gen4) but am wary of activity (or lack thereof).

Jul 4th, 2011, 11:54:14 PM	#56
NotJim Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 11	Sweet, I happen to live within that timezone so that works very well then.

Jul 8th, 2011, 7:43:23 PM	#58
Electro Gypsy Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 46	Are T.Spikes really becomming THAT common? I haven't been playing too much recently. Perhaps its time to invest a slot for a spinner? Latias just doesn't have the power to really threaten anything, especially with a Max/Max spdef spread. You could always look for setup sweepers to punish teams depending on spikes/tspikes. Sub/CM Giratina O seems particularly promising, especially since most hazard setters can't do anything to it, or can scare them out and is Tspike Immune. Lack of recovery sucks though. Do people not prepare for Sub/Seed Skymin anymore? Every time i get it in safely (vs a Ferro or scaring out a Groudon) it just causes so much trouble

Jul 8th, 2011, 8:48:50 PM	#60
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 998 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	Gastrodon checks Kyogre the BEST (except SubCM screw that) but it lets Ferro come in for free /: Every Uber team without spinners is at a huge disadvantage against Drown All-esque teams; if you don't have a spinner, you need to be like HO or really spike resistant...

Jul 8th, 2011, 9:04:25 PM	#62
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 998 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	Well with Gastrodon basically you have to Recover and have something that can come in on Ferro and punish the other team for switching it in (Think Sub Ho-oh or Sub Zekrom lol), or else you're screwed. By the way, does anyone know any good rapid spinners in Ubers? Excadrill is basically all I use, as it can sweep and it also 2HKOes most spin-blockers EDIT: oh sorry i didn't see the thread lol

Jul 8th, 2011, 9:15:58 PM	#63
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	Even then you don't to avoid having your substitute user get seeded which means double switching etc. :/ Excadrill is basically the only offensive one the rest are all pretty defensive :/ We need a good offensive Rapid Spinner. __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 8th, 2011, 9:51:08 PM	#64
Electro Gypsy Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 46	Cloy is decent offensively, but it lacks the ability to really switchin to ANYTHING. Tentacruel does decently too, and is backed by its ability to avoid being 2hkoed by any of scarf ogre/palkia's attacks, but finds itself also being switched into by Ferro :/.

Jul 8th, 2011, 10:25:14 PM	#65
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,244 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	notably nobody uses Rapid Spin on offensive Cloyster, because it mostly rapes stuff already with Shell Smash. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 18th, 2011, 1:00:50 AM	#70
Poppy SYMPTOMATIC OF A GREATER ILL Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,419 brisbane	the fucking point is that they can spin or kill spinblockers __________________ erotically erudite

Jul 18th, 2011, 5:14:03 AM	#71
ZetoTarken Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 226 secret	More importantly, they discourage pokes from coming in and setting up on them because they can retaliate fairly hard. __________________ <Witty comment here>

Jul 18th, 2011, 5:17:14 AM	#72
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,244 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	Even if Groudon comes in, Kabutops/Armaldo can just spin on the switch, then swap out to their EQ resist. I don't see what's the main issue with Groudon vs. Kabutops/Armaldo. __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Jul 19th, 2011, 3:49:46 PM	#73
Olijolly Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 139	I'm so A LOT more chomps lately. I've also seen quite a few tyranitar + subsdchomp combination as well. What the shit?

Jul 19th, 2011, 8:06:39 PM	#75
ssbbm Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 998 Where you can play Pokemon with Singing Narwhals and Dancing Clouds	Or, it could be that players just use old OU teams in ubers...