The Double Battle Metagame (GBU)

[Ashenlock]

Storm Drain Gastrodon (with a Rindo Berry, preferrably) is immune to Water- and Electric-type attacks. Cloud Nine Golduck and Lickilicky can offer some resistance if they have a good partner. Crobat can Sunny Day on the first turn or after Politoed switches in if you predict the switch right while being immune to Fake Out. And--though this is kind of gimmicky--Shedinja frustrates the hell out of the common rain staples Politoed, Ludicolo, and Kingdra. Trick Room, as you said, is also very effective, since from what I've seen you would have to carry an anti-TR Pokemon with little other purpose on the team in order to *effectively* stop its setup consistently.

Those have stopped my rain teams anyway, both a Drizzle and nonDrizzle one. If VGC2012 becomes "open," rain-abusers will adapt to these threats probably, but anti-weather teams will have more solutions too as time passes.

[Zyrac]

Originally Posted by Fat Ashenlock

I mean "eventually" as in, when it gets Intimidate.

EDIT: To make this post a little more useful: How do y'all feel about the exclusion of sleep clause, ethically? Do you turn a blind eye to Dark Void Smeargle, saying "He's only using the rules to their limits, as well he should," or get pissed and think "That's not good sportsmanship, to take advantage of it like that"? I've often thought of trying Dark Void Smeargle on some teams, but never committed to it because of conflicting views and fear of losing wins to DC's.

I encountered a Dark Void Smeargle once. I laughed at it and used Safeguard. Everything has a counter; sleep is only overpowered if you're not prepared for it.

[Ashenlock]

Actually, I've had the same impression of it being ineffective from the few battles I'd seen with it included, but I always suspected that it couldn't be being used as well as it might in those battles.

[Zyrac]

Perhaps that's because its users tend to be rather predictable; I'd be more scared of Smeargle if I didn't instantly know upon seeing it that it would come out first and use Dark Void on the first turn. You could probably make opponents stumble by putting it in the third slot, or even not picking it at all. You could also use support moves like Fake Out, Taunt or Rage Powder to mess up the opponent's counter, though none of those will work against every sleep counter. Basically, Dark Void is very effective if the opponent doesn't counter it, but there's no surefire way to keep them from doing so.

[soul_survivor]

is it jus me or do you see a weather team every other battle. I created one to see there effectiveness when used by a noob. Even i had impressive results. Heres a unique trainer i battled using tailwind/hail vs my drizzle team.
14-97385-35912

[Ashenlock]

Originally Posted by Fat soul_survivor

is it jus me or do you see a weather team every other battle. I created one to see there effectiveness when used by a noob. Even i had impressive results. Heres a unique trainer i battled using tailwind/hail vs my drizzle team.
14-97385-35912

A solid battle. It reminded me of something that I noticed when I was using a rain team with Politoed + Ludicolo leads: If the foe has a faster Fake Out user than Ludicolo, they will use it on him even though mine is clearly a rain team and Ludicolo definitely has Swift Swim. This isn't from novice players, or even the moderately experienced; this happens from every spectrum of player.

I was also reminded about unconventional Tailwind users. I considered for a while getting a Gen IV Latios/Latias/something else and tutoring it Tailwind for the surprise factor, but the numbers just don't seem to support Tailwind outside of the current VGC environment. Two-thirds of its turns can be nullified by dual-Protect, and speed-wars are an entirely different affair in Doubles than in Singles.

On the subject of Tailwind, I've noticed that every VGC-compatible team I've faced in Free Mode with Whimsicott and Terrakion has always led with the two of them, using Tailwind + Protect respectively. It is incredibly predictable, like it was read off of a Smogon analysis, and thus easily stopped. I usually worry that they're bluffing with them together on the team, but I always see them on the field together. Has anyone else had experiences like this?

[Larek]

I LOVE double battles.
I am usually on the random double battle and it's really the most enjoyable for me.
I tried triple battle and I am interested but almost never anybody to fight so I gave up.
Shame :\

[sandman]

I've been battling on GUB recently and this was one of my favorites
25-92783-75000

My team
ttar Zapdos Reuniclus Scizor Salamence Garchomp
Opponents team
Ferrothorn Seismitoad Politoed Latios Jellicent (Not sure but I think ether Zapdos or Gastrodon.)

I made kind of made a lousy mispredict first turn but thought I did ok through the rest of the match. The reason I didn't double protect turn 9 was because I was afraid of Latios using Sub and sweeping with surf. One thing that killed me is the fact that my scizor had bug Bite instead of U-Turn. I recently tried BB for the extra power but I have been missing U-Turn's effect. Still not set in stone on one but in this battle U-Turn probably would've come more in handy.

[soul_survivor]

nice battle. i've been running a SS trick room team that spams eq. it goes like this: cresselia, hariyama, ttar, jellicent, rotom-w, metagross.
i'm wondering just from my experiences but curse ferrathorn wrecks havak on trickroom teams. everytime i battle a ferrathorn i have problems against it. Is it something in my team or something?

[Danul]

I had an idea for a pair and this seems to be the best place to ask about it. It goes:

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb, Modest
252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
-Round
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam
-Recover

Alakazam @ Leftovers, Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Round
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Substitute

The idea is to use Round with both Alakazam and Porygon-Z, which is 120 from Alakazam and 240 from Porygon-Z from Adaptability, and since Alakazam is so fast and Round lets Porygon-Z follow immediately, they'll hopefully be able to take out anyone with their combined attacks. Psychic is for STAB against any Fighting-types that try to take out Porygon-Z and Shadow Ball is for any Ghosts that are immune to Round. Focus Blast is for rock and steel types that resist Round, and since Round lets Porygon-Z go second anyway, I decided to give him HP EVs instead of Speed and Recover to keep him around longer but I'm not so sure he has enough bulk for this to actually make a difference.

[Mr.lol]

On the subject of Tailwind, I've noticed that every VGC-compatible team I've faced in Free Mode with Whimsicott and Terrakion has always led with the two of them, using Tailwind + Protect respectively. It is incredibly predictable, like it was read off of a Smogon analysis, and thus easily stopped. I usually worry that they're bluffing with them together on the team, but I always see them on the field together. Has anyone else had experiences like this?

I've also seen the two but normally being the trick room fanatic i am counter it with my vanguard of hariyama fake out + mental herbed trick room. I don't know if people are overestimating the power of +2 speed (or tailwind boost) and + 6 atk in 2 turns, but 2 turns is just too much time to set something like that up.

nice battle. i've been running a SS trick room team that spams eq. it goes like this: cresselia, hariyama, ttar, jellicent, rotom-w, metagross.
i'm wondering just from my experiences but curse ferrathorn wrecks havak on trickroom teams. everytime i battle a ferrathorn i have problems against it. Is it something in my team or something?

No sadly ferrothorn pretty much counters trick room easily. If its a CB variant its going to be smacking people around with whips and gyros and youll be happy when trick room ends only to be annoyed that 1 poke is down <.<. Add that to the fact 3 pokes on your team are weak to power whip and that just amplifies the problem. Can't Hariyama on your team just nab an ohko on it with guts boosted close combat though?

[Virizion]

Originally Posted by Fat Danul

I had an idea for a pair and this seems to be the best place to ask about it. It goes:

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb, Modest
252 HP/4 Def/252 SpA
-Round
-Shadow Ball
-Ice Beam
-Recover

Alakazam @ Leftovers, Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Round
-Psychic
-Focus Blast
-Substitute

The idea is to use Round with both Alakazam and Porygon-Z, which is 120 from Alakazam and 240 from Porygon-Z from Adaptability, and since Alakazam is so fast and Round lets Porygon-Z follow immediately, they'll hopefully be able to take out anyone with their combined attacks. Psychic is for STAB against any Fighting-types that try to take out Porygon-Z and Shadow Ball is for any Ghosts that are immune to Round. Focus Blast is for rock and steel types that resist Round, and since Round lets Porygon-Z go second anyway, I decided to give him HP EVs instead of Speed and Recover to keep him around longer but I'm not so sure he has enough bulk for this to actually make a difference.

From experience, I know this is a good strategy. However, you're going to want a Scarfed Round user so Porygon-Z outspeeds pretty much everything, literally. I just chose Girafarig because it's uncommon and gets STAB on the move.

[risenreturn]

Quote:
On the subject of Tailwind, I've noticed that every VGC-compatible team I've faced in Free Mode with Whimsicott and Terrakion has always led with the two of them, using Tailwind + Protect respectively. It is incredibly predictable, like it was read off of a Smogon analysis, and thus easily stopped. I usually worry that they're bluffing with them together on the team, but I always see them on the field together. Has anyone else had experiences like this?

Yeah, that really tends to piss me off seeing that every other battle. It's the most important reason my leads first turn consist of Trick+Tormenting the tricked pokemon. It literally ALWAYS causes a switch.

[Danul]

Originally Posted by Fat Virizion

From experience, I know this is a good strategy. However, you're going to want a Scarfed Round user so Porygon-Z outspeeds pretty much everything, literally. I just chose Girafarig because it's uncommon and gets STAB on the move.

I thought about Scarfs but I didn't really want to use one cuz I wanted Alakazam to have Psychic to wipe out Fighting types that would otherwise kill Porygon-Z and also Focus Blast for things that resist Round. I suppose I could mix around the items once they're raised, but for now I want input on whether I should put Porygon-Z's EVs into HP or Speed.

[tomtom5858]

HP. You don't really need the speed.

[Larek]

I had the longest fight ever on double battle with a Japanese man and his Porygon2/Shuckle pair. I thought is strategy was interesting so I should share.

His Shuckle (leftovers) had:
-Power share (and I guess maybe 0 IV for Attack and special attack) to lower my pokemon’s attack,
-Mimic, that he used to learn Recover from his Porygon 2,
-Acupressure to increase it’s shuckle stats
-Rock slide I believe.

His Porygon 2 (evo stone) had
- recover (that he used often and that his shuckles learned),
- psych-up to take all the stat boost that shuckle had from his acupressure
- Ice beam
- Thunder bolt

Needless to say they were a pain in the A**… I believe this strategy is really what double battles are about. I did not really see it coming and was try to kill his porygon but his schuckle crippled my attacks while it was nicely boosting up. When his shuckle learned recover and porygon used psych-up I realized I was in trouble… after a long time I manage to kill his porygon but then he use mismagus (not to hard you might say) who used psych-up as well to copy Shuckle’s stats. His 4th pokemon was a butterfly dance venomoth…

One of the most interesting but painfully long fight. I had for the moment. It was easier once porygon 2 out of the picture but those 2 leads were great.

I love double battles!

[Virizion]

Originally Posted by Fat Larek

I had the longest fight ever on double battle with a Japanese man and his Porygon2/Shuckle pair. I thought is strategy was interesting so I should share.

His Shuckle (leftovers) had:
-Power share (and I guess maybe 0 IV for Attack and special attack) to lower my pokemon’s attack,
-Mimic, that he used to learn Recover from his Porygon 2,
-Acupressure to increase it’s shuckle stats
-Rock slide I believe.

His Porygon 2 (evo stone) had
- recover (that he used often and that his shuckles learned),
- psych-up to take all the stat boost that shuckle had from his acupressure
- Ice beam
- Thunder bolt

Needless to say they were a pain in the A**… I believe this strategy is really what double battles are about. I did not really see it coming and was try to kill his porygon but his schuckle crippled my attacks while it was nicely boosting up. When his shuckle learned recover and porygon used psych-up I realized I was in trouble… after a long time I manage to kill his porygon but then he use mismagus (not to hard you might say) who used psych-up as well to copy Shuckle’s stats. His 4th pokemon was a butterfly dance venomoth…

One of the most interesting but painfully long fight. I had for the moment. It was easier once porygon 2 out of the picture but those 2 leads were great.

I love double battles!

I'm definitely going to try this out. The only thing like this that I've done so far was Shuckle's Guard Share on Blissey (in Trick Room to make sure Blissey didn't get hit before the GS), but giving Recover to Shuckle would definitely be annoying in itself.

[tlyee61]

a few days ago, I saw a haze something with a serperior. Every time serperior would use leaf storm the other mon would use haze to make serperiors sp. attack stat normal again.

[Superpokemon67]

Wow. These are some great strategies. I love doubles. One really cool thing I've seen is a Hail/Rain Team with Ludicolo that knew Blizzard, Hydro Pump, Fake out, protect. Send in Politoad/Ludicolo and switch to Abamasnow turn 1 and start spamming Blizzard. You could do the same thing with Solarbeam and a ninetails too.

And my team's strategy is seen here

[risenreturn]

Random question, But does Eruption hit your partner in doubles? planning a strategy, but can't remember if it works like that or not.

[Zyrac]

Originally Posted by Fat risenreturn

Random question, But does Eruption hit your partner in doubles? planning a strategy, but can't remember if it works like that or not.

It does not. If you want to hit your partner with a Fire move, you'll have to go with Lava Plume.

[risenreturn]

Originally Posted by Fat Zyrac

It does not. If you want to hit your partner with a Fire move, you'll have to go with Lava Plume.

Damn, there goes my strategy. I guess I can cope with Lava plume. Thanks!

[Megamence123]

Damn, there goes my strategy. I guess I can cope with Lava plume. Thanks!

Flash Fire? Is that a viable strategy? I'm new to Doubles, so I'm still learning the ropes.

[soul_survivor]

Originally Posted by Fat Megamence123

Flash Fire? Is that a viable strategy? I'm new to Doubles, so I'm still learning the ropes.

Ye, theres so many viable options in doubles. heck i run double intimidate( hitmontop+gyrados) to great success. I even battled a unique discharge combo that used volt absorb, and gave me trouble.


@superpokemon67
I was always interested in seeing double weather teams. Did it give you any trouble? I always thought starmie should be the staple of drizzle-hail teams because it gets Thunder And blizzard.

[Megamence123]

Originally Posted by Fat soul_survivor

Ye, theres so many viable options in doubles. heck i run double intimidate( hitmontop+gyrados) to great success. I even battled a unique discharge combo that used volt absorb, and gave me trouble.

Thanks so much. Would a double-Fake Out be viable? If so, what would be good Pokémon to use it?