Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!) - Page 27

ShinyPoke25 · Sep 5th, 2011, 4:02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

first of all, candelure IS NOT IMMUNE TO STRUGGLE. struggle hits ghost types.

secondly, the AI doesnt switch unless locked into a non attacking move, shadow tag is pretty pointless imo.

i fixed the first part which i wasnt aware of, and if i am unable to get a taunt off because of a multi hit move or whatever the case may be, Gengar could come in and trick the foe a scarf on a non attacking move. so many wierd things happen in the subway that Shadow Tag is just relief.

Cradily · Sep 5th, 2011, 4:19:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ShinyPoke25

i fixed the first part which i wasnt aware of, and if i am unable to get a taunt off because of a multi hit move or whatever the case may be, Gengar could come in and trick the foe a scarf on a non attacking move. so many wierd things happen in the subway that Shadow Tag is just relief.

Yes, many weird things will always happen in the subway. Zoroark seems to be a decent lead. I think you can use the same team without shadow tag, other people have done a similar variant where the AI does not switch because it is locked into a damaging move that does a minute amount of damage. Like all teams, this one needs a lot of testing before we can truly assess its flaws/strengths.

ShinyPoke25 · Sep 5th, 2011, 4:23:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Cradily

Yes, many weird things will always happen in the subway. Zoroark seems to be a decent lead. I think you can use the same team without shadow tag, other people have done a similar variant where the AI does not switch because it is locked into a damaging move that does a minute amount of damage. Like all teams, this one needs a lot of testing before we can truly assess its flaws/strengths.

i mainly used it because im an idiot and thought ghost pokemn resist struggle which now that i think of it is pretty stupid, but oh well. thanks for the input guys

popprocks · Sep 5th, 2011, 7:41:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ShinyPoke25

Chandelure comes in and can easily setup on the foe which at this point is locked into Struggle thanks to Grudge+Choice Scarf. Chandelure can now easily setup a Sub, get to +6 in Special Attack/Defense, heal off the Sub with Lefties, and proceed to sweep.

The way you describe this strategy makes it sound extremely weak to any team with fast/priority-using/sturdy physical attackers as the 2nd and 3rd pokemon. Calm Mind does not boost your speed or physical defense, so you can easily be out-sped or have a pokemon survive a hit due to sturdy/sash and then it can break your substitute with a physical move. If the next pokemon also gets a hit because it is faster/sturdy/sashed, it can hit you directly with any common move such as Stone Edge, Earthquake, or Crunch, which can potentially OHKO.

Zacchaeus · Sep 5th, 2011, 8:29:38 PM

Your plan doesn't work. Struggle recoil inflicts 25% damage to the user, so the opponent will survive somewhere between 4-6 turns depending on their item and HP

some_guy · Sep 5th, 2011, 10:04:04 PM

Stylo said:

Quote:

I've been trying this team out for a few days, and while it takes forever to set up, it's been working rather well. I used some ideas from other people (Pikiwyn and EonADS) with my own stuff thrown in there.

Shuckle @ Chesto Berry
Bold/Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/6 SpD
*Sturdy*
~ Rest
~ Power Split
~ Gastro Acid
~ Struggle Bug

I got the idea to use this from Pikiwyn. He starts out with Power Split to deplete attacking power and if it's a special attacker he can use Struggle Bug to cause even more problems. Gastro Acid lets me deal with things like the Regi's/Metagross with Clear Body or anything with Keen Eye. Rest is there to hopefully allow him to do two or more of these things. I went with max HP and Def simply because he has a way to lower SpA even further, while he can only rely on Power Split to deal with physical attackers. He normally switches back in to Power Split again after my next Pokemon sets up.

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry?
Calm/Careful Nature
252 HP/196 Def/60 SpD
*Sticky Hold*
~ Flash
~ Recover
~ Memento
~ Bulldoze/Substitute

This idea came from an old team belonging to EonADS. After getting crapped on by Shuckle, most things aren't going to be doing much damage, so Recover gives me a great chance to Flash them down to -6. I like the idea of Bulldoze, as it could allow Ferrothorn to set up a Sub before he takes some kind of status or gets critted for big damage. Substitute is thrown in there as an option for hax protection as I Flash, but I'm just not sure which would be optimal. I was thinking about using Storm Drain to switch in for free against water attacks aimed at Shuckle, but as Eon said, Sticky Hold keeps Trick users from destroying the strategy. The EV's are copy-pasta from X-Act for max defensive potential.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Sassy Nature
252 HP/252 SpD/6 Def
*Iron Barbs*
~ Curse
~ Gyro Ball
~ Substitute
~ Power Whip

He resists every weakness of both Suckle and Gastrodon and has an awesome STAB move in Gyro Ball. Curse not only raises my Atk stat, but powers up my attacking move as well. Power Whip gets STAB and is reliable against slower Pokemon. Sub is pretty obvious, so, yea.

I have a few problems with other Ferrothorn, but thanks to Gastro Acid getting rid of Iron Barbs I can usually come out on top.

I've been using a similar team with shuckle and ferrothorn and I'm at about 120 at the moment.

Firstly I found it really useful to run stealth rock on shuckle, especially as (I may be wrong) but I'm pretty sure you can power split pokemon with clear body, because it's not actually a stat modifier as such. At least I've been using it on metagross and it appears to work.
This does mean you'd need access to a 4th gen game to use the TM.

Stealth rock is there to break sashes and sturdy, as otherwise ferrothorn can be taken out as early as the opponent's second poke.

Even with SR, ferrothorn will always be taking a hit before it attacks, so all you need is for the second poke to break the sub and the third to hit with a special fire/fighting, or even a physical crit, and ferrothorn will be down.
So I think you’ll need some kind of attacking backup, shuckle won’t always be able to pp waste especially if gastrodon has fainted from memento.
I’m currently using a salamence who is able to switch in on ground/fighting aimed at ferrothorn and lower attack with intimidate, which works pretty well as a balance with struggle bug, and the fact that multiple powersplits require a switch.
I’m also using leechseed on ferrothorn (like TRE’s), which helps Mence setup if it wants, and also because at 6curses gyro ball does good damage to almost anything, and leechseed can also help against opposing cursers.

edit: You might also have a lot of trouble with opponents who sub on the first turn such as Scrafty with Bulk up and Focus punch.

bluemon · Sep 6th, 2011, 2:54:32 AM

why would u use a ferrothorn over other pokemon (like dd dragonite or something) with curse and substitue, you are crit magnet. if its something like dd feraligatr, u outspeed and ko. unlike ferrothorn.

Eelektrawss · Sep 6th, 2011, 7:09:27 AM

@ Bluemon: Ferrothorn's resistances make it pretty easy to set up on most things, and he also resists every weakness of Gastrodon and Shuckle. Outspeeding isn't really an issue with me atm thanks to Flash. It may come up though, so thanks for the heads up.

@ some guy: I thought about Stealth Rock but never got a chance to actually try it out, I have another Shuckle sitting in Plat. that I may try. Power Split does work against Clear Body PKMN though, but I use Gastro Acid mainly for Flash. I haven't really encountered any problems with Sturdy/Sashed PKMN yet, but I'm sure it'll come up.

Hmmm, I haven't though about adding another attscker, does Shuckle provide enough support to have 2 set up PKMN? I can see how 'Mence could help with Intimidate though.

I've actually considered Leech Seed>Power Whip, but with just Shuckle and Gastrodon as alternates I'd really have problems with Curse Ferrothorn. Bulk up Scrafy wasn't a problem when I faced one early on, but it never Subbed. Flash abuse did help me out a lot though, so maybe I should try some kind of bulky attacker that can also abuse Flash?

Thanks for the tips.

Peterko · Sep 6th, 2011, 12:53:51 PM

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#1): 21
Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#2): 74, 53, 32, 21
Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#3): 85, 32
Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#4): 30

1. Ninetales (M) „KYUUBI“
Item: Choice Scarf*
Ability: Drought
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31, 3, 31, 30, 30, 31
EV spread: 36, 0, 14, 248, 0, 212
Lv.50: 153, 73. 97, 132, 120, 241*
Moves:
~ Heat Wave
~ SolarBeam
~ Extrasensory
~ Hidden Power Ground 70

2. Sawsbuck (M) „CHOPPER“
Item: Choice Band*
Ability: Chlorophyl
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31
EV spread: 84, 252, 4, 0, 12, 156
Lv.50: 166, 250*, 91, 72, 92, 135 (270)
Moves:
~ Horn Leech
~ Double-Edge
~ Wild Charge
~ Jump Kick

3. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
Item: Choice Specs*
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 156 / 99 / 100 / 273* / 130 / 178
Moves:
~ Psyshock
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Thunderbolt
~ Grass Knot

4. Heatran (M)
Item: Air Baloon
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Naive
IVs: 30 spA, 31 speed
EV spread: don´t know, transferred for test purposes
Lv.50: 156, 109, 121, 181, 108, 141
Moves:
~ Heat Wave
~ Flash Cannon
~ Earth Power
~ Protect

In the first streak (#1) I used a LO Sheer Force Nidoking as 4th team member, as it was freshly bred and I wanted to try it out. I lost to something random. Then (#2) I switched to Arcanine (Blitz, CC, Wild, ES with a Sitrus), probably my favourite Pokémon. It´s awesome and a great team player with Intimidate. Unfortunately, it doesn´t work that well with this team as it can´t handle the Flash Fires, notably Chandelure, which beat this team by itself twice in a row (the #36 & #22 losses).

I can´t believe I missed Heatran as a potential Pokémon. I tend to overlook this standalone Pokémon in the Pokédex whenever I theorymon something despite it having awesome resists and always giving me trouble when I face it. It worked pretty well and I´d recommend it to every Sun team, but it obviously shares a Fighting weak with Buck and that´s not ideal, thus I wasn´t able to get further. The biggest problems are fast Rock Sliders or bad lead combinations that my 2 can´t handle properly, of course Dragons are bad and Tyranitar with something like Aero, Aero in general.

#75 vs Pilot Chand: Charizard, Moltres, Aerodactyl
1. wild charge, tres 1%, heat wave, tres KO, zard 80%, flame charge, CH, KO buck
- foe aero, me latios
2. heat wave, dragon claw, 80/156, rock slide, double KO
- me arcanine
3. dragon claw CH, rock slide, KO
0-3

#53 vs Scientist: Magmortar, Milotic, Lickilicky, Conkeldurr
1. leech+wave, overheat
- me latios, foe licki
2. protect, explosion, double KO
- me arcanine, foe conk
3. blitz 90%, focus blast, fling, KO
0-2

#86 vs Gentleman Kavan: Zapdos, Regigigas, Regirock, Virizion
1. Buck Double-Edge, Zapdos fainted, Heat Wave, Gigas avoided, Double Team
- foe Regirock
2. Double-Edge, Gigas avoided, Heat Wave, Gigas avoided, 20% to Regirock, Regirock Stone Edge, Tales fainted, Gigas DT
- me Latios
3. Buck out -> Heatran in, Dragon Pulse, Regirock lives with 5%, Regirock Stone Edge, Heatran avoided, Gigas Drain Punch, Tran at 96/156
4. Regirock Custap Earthquake, Heatran fainted, Latios Dragon Pulse, Regirock fainted, Gigas Drain Punch, Latios 138/156
- me Buck, foe Virizion
5. Buck Double-Edge, Gigas avoided, Latios Dragon Pulse, Gigas at 30%, Virizion Sacred Sword, Buck fainted, Gigas Payback, Latios 36/156
6. Latios Dragon Pulse, Gigas fainted, Virizion Sacred Sword, Latios fainted
0-1

Fk accuracy issues. I despise Gigas with a passion. Now if the Subway decides to be a real dick and lead with the two most annoying legends (also Cune because it survives everything) you´re dead. If you don´t kill Zapdos ASAP and it starts DTing, you may as well start packing your bags cause you´re leaving the Sub soon. OK so Buck´s awesome and one-hit Zap, but of course this time it´s Gigas screwing with you. Yes it can´t get it going, but who cares if you can´t hit it! Then of course I´m generous enough to put RRock into Custap range to sink even into deeper shit.

#33 vs Biker: Gyarados, Hydreigon, Archeops, Bronzong
1. switch out Tales, Latios in, Buck Wild Charge OHKO Gyara, Hydra Focus Blast KO Buck.
- me Tales, foe Archeops
2. Tales Heat Wave, Archeops Rock Slide, Tales at 9/153, Latios 87/156, Latios flinched, Hydra Dragon Rush, Latios fainted.
- me Heatran
3. Tales Heat Wave, Arch 31%, Sitrus to 56%, Archeops Quake, Tales fainted, Heatran Flash Cannon, Hydra 5% left, Hydra Fire Blast, Flash Fire activated.
4. Archeops Protect, Heatran Protect, Hydra Focus Blast, Heatran protected.
5. Archeops Rock Slide, Heatran at 80/156 HP, Flash Cannon, Hydra KO
- foe Zong
6. Archeops Quake, Heatran fainted.
0-2

After this early loss, I gave up and caught 3 Sevaddles (31,31,30,17,30,31) to test Leavanny as a lead instead of Buck. I used Leaf Blade / X-Scissor / Shadow Claw / Razor Leaf but only got to 30 before losing badly to something because it can´t take a hit.

Well, here´s the usable Chlorophyl Pokémon that get enough speed for the majority of Subway Scarfers:

232-322 SAWSBUCK @ Choice Band: Horn Leech, Double-Edge, Wild Charge, Jump Kick
226-316 LEAVANNY @ Choice Band: Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Aerial Ace, Poison Jab, Flail
222-312 LILLIGANT @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Grass Knot, Helping Hand, Quiver Dance, Growth
202-290 SHIFTRY @ Focus Sash: Fake Out, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Seed Bomb, Leaf Storm, Growth, Rock Slide
182-268 VICTREEBEL @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Leaf Storm, Growth, WeatherBall
152-234 EXEGGUTOR @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Wood Hamer, Leaf Storm, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Zen Headbutt, AncientPower

fastest Subway Pokémon:
258 Manectric 4 SCARF Switcheroo, Thunder, Volt Switch, Overheat ground
250 Entei 3 SCARF Eruption, Heat Wave, Extrasensory, SolarBeam water, ground, rock
240 Terrakion 2 SCARF Sacred Sword, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace fighting, ground, water, grass, psychic
231 Garchomp 3 SCARF Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Fang, Crunch ice, dragon
229 Landorus 2 SCARF Earthquake, Rock Slide, Outrage, Brick Break ice, water
228 Staraptor 2 SCARF Pursuit, Close Combat, Roost, Final Gambit ice, electric, rock
228 Typhlosion 3 SCARF Eruption, Focus Blast, Heat Wave, Extrasensory water, ground, rock
225 Pinsir 4 SCARF X-Scissor, Earthquake, Close Combat, Guillotine fire, flying, rock
216 Accelgor 1,3,4

Yesterday, I bred a HP Rock and also a HP Ice Drought Vulpix, but I haven´t tested them yet as I don´t have Fire Stones and don´t feel like searching for them right now. Also I almost always Heat Wave, SolarBeam only Fishermen/Parasol ladies and some Ground teams, Tales´ spA is so low that a 80 or 70 BP move does pitiful damage. Another option would be to Specs it, but I like the speed hmm.

Next thing I´d do would breed an Exeggutor or Victreebel, they have much better synergy (fighting resist) with Heatran which is crucial, because Fire types and other random stuff that knows Fire moves and Fighting moves often use a Fighting move on Buck which sucks for the incoming Heatran. The Rock weak is bugging me the most, so I´d been thinking about using Garchomp or dunno even Flygon (ground/rock immu/res for Tales). With Drought, Water isn´t such an issue, Buck fixes those plus I think Tales has yet to be OHKOed by a water attack.

What speaks for Buck is the fact that CB DE is superb in taking out oposing Fires and it OHKOs a lot of other stuff (it´s basically a Tauros on speed). None of the other Chlorophyl Pokémon is able to do that (I think). Plus Sawbuck´s a cool Pokémon lol. Wild Charge is another attack that helps immensely, taking out Gyarados and other flyers in one hit, obviously Pilots are bad for this team. I have not used Jump Kick much, maybe once or twice but it´s a better option than Megahorn which isn´t suitable for anything, really. CB is the item of choice for Buck IMO, because you´ll be recoiling a lot and you need the boost.

Leavanny is cool to look at, but its attacks are resisted by the same stuff Ninetales has trouble dealing with...yeah there´s battles that end in 2 turns but there´s more battles that give you a headache upon seeing the foe´s lead duo. The quadruple Fire and Flying weaknesses don´t help, even Incinerate KOs you. I´d probably Sash this one and maybe use Flail (with SD?) ...

So yeah, I´ve played a bit of Sun (around 350 battles) and it was fun, but I didn´t get far. Good Luck to others who try it.

Chinese Dood · Sep 6th, 2011, 2:36:26 PM

Currently using this team:
Whimsicott @ Sash
Careful / Prankster
- Cotton Spore / Encore / Charm / Flash

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Jolly / Moody
- Spore / Substitute / Quiver Dance / Baton Pass

Espeon @ White Herb
Timid / Magic Bounce
- Calm Mind / Substitute / Stored Power / HP Bug 70

Comment: Should be obvious how this team works, so I won't go into detail. It's just pretty awesome when a 4x resisted Metagross gets OHKO'd by Stored Power. I almost just use Stored Power on anything that is not dark type. Usually I just baton pass when I know Espeon is around +5 or +6 in SpA, at which point stored power is probably usually around 400+ base power. O yeah, obviously Blissey is OHKO'd also.

Sometimes I just boost a little bit and then baton pass to Espeon if my opponent has taunt/roar. Magic Bounce hasn't been used that much, but it's still been useful in some situations.

Plenty of things can go wrong in the initial setting up, but yah, I'll see how far this one goes. The worst is when Smeargle is setting up but gets both Accuracy and Evasion lowered, because then it can't spore perfectly or just avoid things with Evasion.

Also White Herb on Espeon was kind of essential just because getting negative accuracy boosts is not so fun. HP Bug, followed by Calm Mind is the least used move in the team so far, since Smeargle does the job with QD already usually.

EDIT: Yeah, I know Calm and Timid are probably better for Whimsicott / Smeargle, but I haven't bothered to breed those and it's not a huge difference anyway, so yeah. O yeah, Stored Power just OHKO'd a Cresselia too.

EDIT2: In case one does not know how Stored Power works. It's 20 base power attack initially, and it's +20 base power for each increase in stat (decreases have no effect). So, 6 quiver dances = 6 * 3 * 20 = +360, so 380 base power. With Moody boosting Attack/Accuracy/Evasion/Defense also, it's not hard to get over 400 base power with +6 SpA.

sasuke-kun19 · Sep 6th, 2011, 2:42:03 PM

did a decent 37 in double battle mode with this team:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: blaze
Nature: jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk)
EVs: 6HP, 252Atk, 252Spd
-Fake out
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Thunder Punch (any suggestion for this one? useful only against slowbro, gyara and someone else)

Tornadus @ flight gem
Trait: Prankester
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk)
EVs: 6HP, Atk, 252Spd
-Acrobatics
-Tailwind
-Taunt
-Protect

the strategy used by my two leads is simple: try to set up tailwind when necessary, fake out the most reliable threat that is not a ghost (possibly the one who threats tornadus, because infernape can take a hit thanks to focus sash)... taunt is for trick room Pokes that ruins my whole strategy! if I can hit hard the two opponents without many problems, i go for a double ko with acrobatics and CC/flare blitz, or other times i fake out one of the enemies and kill the other one with acrobatics!
the move tailwind is crucial for my other pokes, that are:

Excadrill @ life orb
Trait: sand rush
Nature: adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
EVs: 6HP, 252Atk, 252Spd
-Protect
-Earthquake
-X-Scissor
-Rock Slide

hydreigon @ Choice Specs
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
EVs: 6HP, 252SpA, 252Spd
-Dragon Pulse
-Dark Pulse
-Flamethrower
-Surf

they can destroy anything that is not resisted, and they have a great potential together! i always go for dragon pulse and rarely use other's hydreigon moves... evs in speed are needed when i don't manage to set up tailwind or when its effect ends and tornadus is dead.

the streak is not great but i have to pay more attention because sometimes i simply do terrible mistakes that costs me the match!! anyway i'd like some suggestion to improve it.. i was thinking of dropping excadrill for a special attacker that possibly carries ice beam or something to hit harder pilot's team which are always full of flying pokes, and most notably intimidate leads followed by other intimidate users that cripple 3/4 of my team...
thanks in advance

bluemon · Sep 6th, 2011, 4:14:49 PM

@chinese dood

did you try shell break on smeargle? i can see it being better since its twice as much boosts, and besides, you have calm mind on espeon, which is the same thing as a quiver dance.

lordkira · Sep 6th, 2011, 4:21:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

@chinese dood

did you try shell break on smeargle? i can see it being better since its twice as much boosts, and besides, you have calm mind on espeon, which is the same thing as a quiver dance.

well...you do get speed boosted up with quiver dance, which is a big thing

bluemon · Sep 6th, 2011, 5:07:51 PM

you do with shell break too.

i think quiver dance with calm mind is kinda redundant.
you have white herb on espeon anyways ;)

Zacchaeus · Sep 6th, 2011, 5:22:05 PM

Peterko - I also found sun teams very underwhelming

bluemon - The proper English name is Shell Smash, and Quiver Dance was probably picked because Shell Smash would make it harder to get the base power of Stored Power up in a timely manner

sasuke-kun19 - I really hope you didn't mean to say 37 streak. If you did mean 37, that's really bad and you should do a good amount more work before posting about your team

Chinese Dood - You've sparked my interest. Also I'm pissed that Espeon only gets Signal Beam by 4th generation tutor

bluemon · Sep 6th, 2011, 5:27:27 PM

WAIT... wouldnt shell smash make it easier for smeargle/espeon to get the stored power boost?

shell smash is +6 (the -2 is mediated by white herb) as opposed to quiver dance's +3

***Jibaku**** · Sep 6th, 2011, 5:40:09 PM

One thing that Quiver Dance does that Shell Smash doesn't is the special defense boost, which works well in tandem with Whimsy's Charm to ensure Espeon gets in without the Sub broken.

atsync · Sep 6th, 2011, 6:00:21 PM

Not to mention it would be kinda risky to lower Smeargles defences. Imagine if it used shell smash unprotected by sub/spore and then got a moody defence drop on top of that (ideally you wouldn't boost without sub or spore active but you never know when something unfortunate will occur than would prevent that for some reason).

bluemon · Sep 6th, 2011, 6:08:48 PM

ehhh, i would rather use memento on whimsicott and use shell smash
but i see the logic in quiver dance.

**R Inanimate** · Sep 6th, 2011, 8:50:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

Currently using this team:
Whimsicott @ Sash
Careful / Prankster
- Cotton Spore / Encore / Charm / Flash

Smeargle @ Leftovers
Jolly / Moody
- Spore / Substitute / Quiver Dance / Baton Pass

Espeon @ White Herb
Timid / Magic Bounce
- Calm Mind / Substitute / Stored Power / HP Bug 70

Have you thought about using a Xatu instead of Espeon?
Xatu can learn Miracle Eye which would allow you to hit Dark Types with Stored Power.

Chinese Dood · Sep 6th, 2011, 10:38:28 PM

O yah, I did think about shell smash, and I was actually going to sketch Shell smash, but then for some reason I totally forgot about it and sketched Quiver Dance instead and then decided to go with it to try it out for now anyway.

Also, I thought about Xatu, but having to Miracle Eye + Store Power in 2 turns wasn't ... what I would like ideally.

EDIT: O yeah, forgot to mention, I'm surprised there was this much interest in my team. It's not even that great, lol. There are plenty of leads that Whimsicott doesn't do such a good job allowing Smeargle to set up on. I have yet to even break 70 streak with this team.

Peterko · Sep 7th, 2011, 4:38:05 AM

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streak: 88

1. Aerodactyl (M)
Item: Choice Band*
Ability: Unnerve
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31, 31, 31, 08, 31, 31
EV spread: 0, 252, 6, 0, 0, 252
Lv.50: 155, 235*, 86, 62, 95, 200
Moves:
~ Rock Slide
~ Aerial Ace
~ Crunch
~ Dragon Claw

2. Machamp (M)
Item: Choice Scarf*
Ability: No Guard
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31, 31, 31, 16, 31, 31
EV spread: 6, 252, 0, 0, 0, 252
Lv.50: 166, 182, 100, 70, 105, 175*
Moves:
~ DynamicPunch
~ Stone Edge
~ Ice Punch
~ Fire Punch

3. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
Item: Choice Specs*
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 156 / 99 / 100 / 273* / 130 / 178
Moves:
~ Psyshock
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Thunderbolt
~ Grass Knot

4. Metagross „DOOMSDAY“
Item: Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31, 31, 31, 21, 31, 31
EV spread: 84, 252, 4, 0, 6, 164
Lv.50: 166, 205, 151, 99 , 111, 111
Moves:
~ Iron Head
~ Earthquake
~ Rock Slide
~ Bullet Punch

I wanted to try out CB Aero for a long time. I was surprised that it is almost a glass cannon, but why does it always trouble me when I face it? Oh, the speed and Rock Slide, an awful combination. I like AA and DynamicPunch, it´s a great feeling to actually "hit" in the Subway. AeroChamp are surprisingly good together (surprisingly because I just smacked Champ there), Fighting+Rock is a great attacking combination plus Unnerve makes sure no Lum Berries ruin the fun of confusion. Slide+DP = flinchfusion...if only it worked as well as imagined, the foe almost never flinches or hurts itself in confusion when you need it (below are some hax examples of the opposite), oh my god and Rock Slide missing the wrong oponent is the funniest thing...not ._.

Note about Unnerve: I like the fact that there´s no Sitrus activation, ChestoRests and Custap hax, but that only applies when Aero is alive...or switch and their Sitrus activates ._., you want to switch back in to nerf their Custap, oh but it activates before you come in lol...

#77 vs Veteran Colombo: Suicune, Latias, Zapdos, Virizion
1. Aero Dragon Claw, 90% dmg to Latias, Latias Thunder, Aero fainted, Champ DynamicPunch 30% to Cune, Cune hurt itself.
- me Latios
2. Latias DM, Latios fainted, White Herb, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune Rest, Chesto.
- me Meta
3. Meta Bullet Punch, Latias fainted, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune hurt itself in its confusion.
- foe Zapdos
4. Champ DynamicPunch, Zap Light Screen, Meta Slide 60% dmg to Zap, Cune Ice Beam 128/166, Champ frozen.
5. Zap Thunder, Champ fainted, Meta Slide, Zap fainted, Cune flinched.
- foe Virizion
6. Virizion Sacred Sword, Meta Quake, Cune fainted, Viri at 78%.
7. Virizion Protect, Iron Head, Protected.
8. Virizion Sacred Sword Meta at 59/166 HP, Iron Head, 20%HP left.
9. Virizion Protect, Bullet Punch, Protected.
10. Meta Bullet Punch, Virizion fainted.
1-0

Yeah obvious mistake of sending in Latios instead of Meta to finish off foe Latias, end of turn 2 I was pretty much a goner, seeing as Machamp had only 2 more attacks. One of the best Metagross comebacks I experienced.

#85 vs Socialite Saty: Cresselia, Suicune, Tornadus, Virizion
1. Cune Protect, Aero Slide 22% to Cresse, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune protected, Cresse Icy Wind.
2. Aero Slide, Champ DynamicPunch, Cresse flinched, Cune hurt itself, Cune Lefties.
3. Aero Slide, Cune avoided, Champ DynamicPunch, Cresse flinched, Cune hurt itself, Cune Lefties.
4. Champ back, Meta in, Aero Slide, CH on Cune, Cune fainted, Cresse at 3%, Icy Wind.
- foe Tornadus
5. Aero back, Champ in, Tornadus Focus Blast Champ, Meta Slide, Tornadus avoided, Cresse fainted.
- foe Virizion
6. Viri Calm Mind, Champ Stone Edge, 75% to Tornadus, Air Slash, Champ fainted, Meta Iron Head, Tornadus fainted.
- me Aero
7. Aero Aerial Ace, CH, Virizion fainted.
3-0

The above battle showcases the simple fact that Rock Slide is among the top worst attacks in the game (hi VGC´11 metagame), I´d say #2 in Subway doubles after Blizzard and also this game sucks, too much hacks.

#89 vs Psychic: Spiritomb, Bronzong, Gardevoir, Froslass
1. Crunch + DynamicPunch Bronzong, Tomb WoW Aero, Zong TR through confusion.
2. Zong Zenbutt through confusion, Champ lives with low HP, Tomb Substitute, Champ DP, Zong KO, Aero Crunch Tomb.
- foe Gardevoir
3. Tomb Sucker, Champ fainted, Gardevoir Shadow Ball, Aero Crunch CH, Tomb sub broke.
- me Meta
4. Tomb Sucker, Aero fainted, Meta Iron Head Tomb to 20%, Garde Bolt.
- me Latios
5. Tomb Custap Sucker Latios, Meta Bullet, Tomb fainted, Garde Shadow Ball, Latios fainted.
- foe Froslass, TR ended
6. Froslass Shadow Ball, Gardevoir Thunderbolt, Meta fainted.
0-2

Bronzong is a *....* and should die in a fire, no wait maybe it´s Heatproof, OK so we need an Earthquake...oh it´s Levitate, after all. Yeah I should change the back row to handle these (and Slow-family) better.

Simple, yet one of the better teams I built, 88 on the first try is good (I don´t remember the last time I got over 100 lol). I´d change the back row because Psychics and Harlequins trouble me.

navy823 · Sep 7th, 2011, 5:53:28 PM

Pokemon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles Record: 90

My team:

Tyranitar @ Air Balloon
Adamant
Sand Stream
252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def
Rock Slide
Earthquake
Crunch
Protect

Landorus @ Life Orb
Jolly
Sand Force
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Hidden Power Ice
Protect

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Adamant
Sand Rush
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Earthquake
Rock Slide
X-Scissor
Protect

Azelf @ Choice Specs
Timid
Levitate
252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP
Psyshock
Flamethrower
Thunderbolt
Grass Knot

Sand Stream, Sand Rush, Sand Force, you guessed it, a sandstorm team. I tried a sun team and a rain team before this one, but both failed at about 36 battles. I started thinking about a sandstrom team, since Excadrill is one of my favorite Pokemon, and sure enough it worked perfectly. The Quake-Slide combo may seem overused on this team, but it actually helps a lot in double KO's and flinch hax.

The first one is obviously Tyranitar. He took hits surprisingly well, even surviving Brick Breaks and Focus Blasts here and there. He did more than I expected him to do. He was also useful for drawing in Fighting and Grass moves, against which he could Protect while Landorus used Earthquake to deal enough damage for a OHKO or a 2HKO. It also surprisingly drew in all status moves such as toxic, so I could Protect with T-tar agaist those as well. It got screwed a few times with priority moves and its Air Balloon, and I made the mistake a few times of killing it after Spiritomb used a Shadow Sneak to pop its Balloon. Overall it made a good partner with Landorus, and it rarely died in any of the battles.

Landorus was probably the MVP of the team. 200 BP Earthquake after STAB and Sand Force boost? Yes please. This thing could put dents in anything with its Earthquake. It was faily fast as well, and usually could kill both opponents without even giving them a chance to move. Rock Slide was also boosted and got flinch hax often, crippling pokemon that even resisted it. I'm not sure why I put Hidden Power Ice on him, because the only ones it helped with were Tangrowth, Flygon and Claydol. Everything else took much more damage from Earthquake or Rock Slide. Protect was used only for Ice moves. If an ICe move was on one of the first Pokemon, Landorus would Protect while T-tar would Rock Slide to put them down enough for Landorus to KO them the next turn. Landorus did not die easily as well, and the dynamisc duo of Tyranitar and Landorus was extremely hard to beat.

The next Pokemon of the team was Excadrill. If one of the first ones died, I always chose Excadrill to take its place so that Azelf could make the best choice of a move with Choice Specs. When I read Excadrill's first analysis after the Japanese game came out, it was raving about its Sand Rush ability, and I thought, "What's so great about it?" I now know what's so great about it. Excadrill could outspeed anything for a revenge kill, whenter it be a Starmie or a Weavile. It came in and wreched havoc on any team. I first had it with a Ground Gem, but I lost one battle in the 30's because Excadrill was killed in one hit, so I gave it a Focus Sash instead, which proved to be useful many times. I could also afford to run Adamant nature because of Sand Rush, which was also useful.

Last and maybe not least is Azelf. I picked Azelf because I like him and I needed a strong Levitater. He was nothing to mess with as well on my team. He rarely got time to shine because of the other members usually taking care of the job, but it was really nice taking out some of those threats with one hit, like Bronzong and Ferrothorn. He basically hit hard and killed as much as he could before dying to attacks and the damage from Sandstorm. I only used Grass Knot once, but it was useful for bulky Ground/Water types. Azelf did a decent job overall and he still gave me a reason to like him.

I lost on Battle 91 against a Sunny Day trainer. She started off with a Rapidash and a Victreebel. I thought she would try to pop my T-tar's balloon with Rapidash before my Landorus could use EQ, and I also thought victreebel would try to hit T-tar for a super effective hit, so I Protected with T-tar. Rapidash uses Sunny Day instead, Landorus EQ's taking out Rapidash and leaving Victreebel enough HP tp last 2 Life Orb recoils, and Victreebel Solarbeams my Landorus for a KO. I send in Azelf and she sends in Arcanine. Victreebel starts the turn because of Chlorophyll and takes out T-tar with a Solarbeam, and then dies itself. Azelf Psyshocks Arcanine, putting it in the reds, and Arcanine kills Azelf with a Flamethrower. At this point I'm praying for another fire type so that I can OHKO them both with EQ. I send in Excadrill, and she sands in Tangrowth... and I know its over. Arcanine Flamethrowers and brings it down to its sash, Tangrowth Leech Seeds, Excadrill uses EQ and kills Arcanine and barely dents Tangrowth, and Excadrill loses health from Leech Seed and dies. If i hadn't Protected the first turn, I might have won, but I felt it was reasonable to use Protect becasue of faster opponents hitting my T-tar first and breaking its balloon so Landorus kills it. Oh well.

Doubles are more interesting and faster-paced, but also more annoying in my opinion. I prefer singles, but doubles was a nice break from singles. I encourage others to try it at least once, and to try different teams such as rain, sun, and Trick Room teams to see which fits you best.

fluffyflyingpig · Sep 7th, 2011, 8:34:09 PM

Clearly I've been obsessing over one team for too long, people are coming up with all the other fun stuff I came up with but haven't tested yet. Back over 500, and settled on Dpulse/Psyshock/tbolt/protect. I'll do a last big writeup when i lose this streak.

A big congrats to R Inanimate. I had a very very similar rain team mostly bred and trained, glad to see it works in practice. Power split Shuckle was the most exiting thing for me in this gen because I really wanted to make Shuckle work. I tried it with a couple of different sweepers but haven't had much luck.

I have been using a Whimsicott/Smergle/Stored power team for breaks between doubles matches. It's pretty silly but a lot of fun. Cotton spore/taunt/worryseed/memento seemed to work better for me, idk.

Chinese Dood · Sep 7th, 2011, 9:52:02 PM

Worry seed with Smeargle? Is your Smeargle still running Spore then (or... I guess maybe Protect/Sub/Baton Pass/Other Boosting move?)? Sounds interesting

Yeah it's pretty silly but fun. :)

Sep 6th, 2011, 12:53:51 PM	#659
Peterko Never give up! Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,070	tried Sun, but... Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#1): 21 Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#2): 74, 53, 32, 21 Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#3): 85, 32 Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks (#4): 30 1. Ninetales (M) „KYUUBI“ Item: Choice Scarf* Ability: Drought Nature: Timid IVs: 31, 3, 31, 30, 30, 31 EV spread: 36, 0, 14, 248, 0, 212 Lv.50: 153, 73. 97, 132, 120, 241* Moves: ~ Heat Wave ~ SolarBeam ~ Extrasensory ~ Hidden Power Ground 70 2. Sawsbuck (M) „CHOPPER“ Item: Choice Band* Ability: Chlorophyl Nature: Adamant IVs: 31, 31, 31, 31, 31, 31 EV spread: 84, 252, 4, 0, 12, 156 Lv.50: 166, 250, 91, 72, 92, 135 (270) Moves: ~ Horn Leech ~ Double-Edge ~ Wild Charge ~ Jump Kick 3. Latios* (M) „DRAGON“ Item: Choice Specs* Ability: Levitate Nature: Timid IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252 Lv.50: 156 / 99 / 100 / 273* / 130 / 178 Moves: ~ Psyshock ~ Dragon Pulse ~ Thunderbolt ~ Grass Knot 4. Heatran (M) Item: Air Baloon Ability: Flash Fire Nature: Naive IVs: 30 spA, 31 speed EV spread: don´t know, transferred for test purposes Lv.50: 156, 109, 121, 181, 108, 141 Moves: ~ Heat Wave ~ Flash Cannon ~ Earth Power ~ Protect In the first streak (#1) I used a LO Sheer Force Nidoking as 4th team member, as it was freshly bred and I wanted to try it out. I lost to something random. Then (#2) I switched to Arcanine (Blitz, CC, Wild, ES with a Sitrus), probably my favourite Pokémon. It´s awesome and a great team player with Intimidate. Unfortunately, it doesn´t work that well with this team as it can´t handle the Flash Fires, notably Chandelure, which beat this team by itself twice in a row (the #36 & #22 losses). I can´t believe I missed Heatran as a potential Pokémon. I tend to overlook this standalone Pokémon in the Pokédex whenever I theorymon something despite it having awesome resists and always giving me trouble when I face it. It worked pretty well and I´d recommend it to every Sun team, but it obviously shares a Fighting weak with Buck and that´s not ideal, thus I wasn´t able to get further. The biggest problems are fast Rock Sliders or bad lead combinations that my 2 can´t handle properly, of course Dragons are bad and Tyranitar with something like Aero, Aero in general. #75 vs Pilot Chand: Charizard, Moltres, Aerodactyl 1. wild charge, tres 1%, heat wave, tres KO, zard 80%, flame charge, CH, KO buck - foe aero, me latios 2. heat wave, dragon claw, 80/156, rock slide, double KO - me arcanine 3. dragon claw CH, rock slide, KO 0-3 #53 vs Scientist: Magmortar, Milotic, Lickilicky, Conkeldurr 1. leech+wave, overheat - me latios, foe licki 2. protect, explosion, double KO - me arcanine, foe conk 3. blitz 90%, focus blast, fling, KO 0-2 #86 vs Gentleman Kavan: Zapdos, Regigigas, Regirock, Virizion 1. Buck Double-Edge, Zapdos fainted, Heat Wave, Gigas avoided, Double Team - foe Regirock 2. Double-Edge, Gigas avoided, Heat Wave, Gigas avoided, 20% to Regirock, Regirock Stone Edge, Tales fainted, Gigas DT - me Latios 3. Buck out -> Heatran in, Dragon Pulse, Regirock lives with 5%, Regirock Stone Edge, Heatran avoided, Gigas Drain Punch, Tran at 96/156 4. Regirock Custap Earthquake, Heatran fainted, Latios Dragon Pulse, Regirock fainted, Gigas Drain Punch, Latios 138/156 - me Buck, foe Virizion 5. Buck Double-Edge, Gigas avoided, Latios Dragon Pulse, Gigas at 30%, Virizion Sacred Sword, Buck fainted, Gigas Payback, Latios 36/156 6. Latios Dragon Pulse, Gigas fainted, Virizion Sacred Sword, Latios fainted 0-1 Fk accuracy issues. I despise Gigas with a passion. Now if the Subway decides to be a real dick and lead with the two most annoying legends (also Cune because it survives everything) you´re dead. If you don´t kill Zapdos ASAP and it starts DTing, you may as well start packing your bags cause you´re leaving the Sub soon. OK so Buck´s awesome and one-hit Zap, but of course this time it´s Gigas screwing with you. Yes it can´t get it going, but who cares if you can´t hit it! Then of course I´m generous enough to put RRock into Custap range to sink even into deeper shit. #33 vs Biker: Gyarados, Hydreigon, Archeops, Bronzong 1. switch out Tales, Latios in, Buck Wild Charge OHKO Gyara, Hydra Focus Blast KO Buck. - me Tales, foe Archeops 2. Tales Heat Wave, Archeops Rock Slide, Tales at 9/153, Latios 87/156, Latios flinched, Hydra Dragon Rush, Latios fainted. - me Heatran 3. Tales Heat Wave, Arch 31%, Sitrus to 56%, Archeops Quake, Tales fainted, Heatran Flash Cannon, Hydra 5% left, Hydra Fire Blast, Flash Fire activated. 4. Archeops Protect, Heatran Protect, Hydra Focus Blast, Heatran protected. 5. Archeops Rock Slide, Heatran at 80/156 HP, Flash Cannon, Hydra KO - foe Zong 6. Archeops Quake, Heatran fainted. 0-2 After this early loss, I gave up and caught 3 Sevaddles (31,31,30,17,30,31) to test Leavanny as a lead instead of Buck. I used Leaf Blade / X-Scissor / Shadow Claw / Razor Leaf but only got to 30 before losing badly to something because it can´t take a hit. Well, here´s the usable Chlorophyl Pokémon that get enough speed for the majority of Subway Scarfers: 232-322 SAWSBUCK @ Choice Band: Horn Leech, Double-Edge, Wild Charge, Jump Kick 226-316 LEAVANNY @ Choice Band: Leaf Blade, X-Scissor, Shadow Claw, Aerial Ace, Poison Jab, Flail 222-312 LILLIGANT @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Grass Knot, Helping Hand, Quiver Dance, Growth 202-290 SHIFTRY @ Focus Sash: Fake Out, Sucker Punch, Low Kick, Seed Bomb, Leaf Storm, Growth, Rock Slide 182-268 VICTREEBEL @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Power Whip, Leaf Blade, Sucker Punch, Leaf Storm, Growth, WeatherBall 152-234 EXEGGUTOR @ Focus Sash: Sleep Powder, Wood Hamer, Leaf Storm, Grass Knot, Psychic, Psyshock, Zen Headbutt, AncientPower fastest Subway Pokémon: 258 Manectric 4 SCARF Switcheroo, Thunder, Volt Switch, Overheat ground 250 Entei 3 SCARF Eruption, Heat Wave, Extrasensory, SolarBeam water, ground, rock 240 Terrakion 2 SCARF Sacred Sword, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Aerial Ace fighting, ground, water, grass, psychic 231 Garchomp 3 SCARF Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Fang, Crunch ice, dragon 229 Landorus 2 SCARF Earthquake, Rock Slide, Outrage, Brick Break ice, water 228 Staraptor 2 SCARF Pursuit, Close Combat, Roost, Final Gambit ice, electric, rock 228 Typhlosion 3 SCARF Eruption, Focus Blast, Heat Wave, Extrasensory water, ground, rock 225 Pinsir 4 SCARF X-Scissor, Earthquake, Close Combat, Guillotine fire, flying, rock 216 Accelgor 1,3,4 Yesterday, I bred a HP Rock and also a HP Ice Drought Vulpix, but I haven´t tested them yet as I don´t have Fire Stones and don´t feel like searching for them right now. Also I almost always Heat Wave, SolarBeam only Fishermen/Parasol ladies and some Ground teams, Tales´ spA is so low that a 80 or 70 BP move does pitiful damage. Another option would be to Specs it, but I like the speed hmm. Next thing I´d do would breed an Exeggutor or Victreebel, they have much better synergy (fighting resist) with Heatran which is crucial, because Fire types and other random stuff that knows Fire moves and Fighting moves often use a Fighting move on Buck which sucks for the incoming Heatran. The Rock weak is bugging me the most, so I´d been thinking about using Garchomp or dunno even Flygon (ground/rock immu/res for Tales). With Drought, Water isn´t such an issue, Buck fixes those plus I think Tales has yet to be OHKOed by a water attack. What speaks for Buck is the fact that CB DE is superb in taking out oposing Fires and it OHKOs a lot of other stuff (it´s basically a Tauros on speed). None of the other Chlorophyl Pokémon is able to do that (I think). Plus Sawbuck´s a cool Pokémon lol. Wild Charge is another attack that helps immensely, taking out Gyarados and other flyers in one hit, obviously Pilots are bad for this team. I have not used Jump Kick much, maybe once or twice but it´s a better option than Megahorn which isn´t suitable for anything, really. CB is the item of choice for Buck IMO, because you´ll be recoiling a lot and you need the boost. Leavanny is cool to look at, but its attacks are resisted by the same stuff Ninetales has trouble dealing with...yeah there´s battles that end in 2 turns but there´s more battles that give you a headache upon seeing the foe´s lead duo. The quadruple Fire and Flying weaknesses don´t help, even Incinerate KOs you. I´d probably Sash this one and maybe use Flail (with SD?) ... So yeah, I´ve played a bit of Sun (around 350 battles) and it was fun, but I didn´t get far. Good Luck to others who try it. __________________ Black & White Battle Subway Records Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records DP Battle Tower Records (Smogon's Greatest Hits) Emerald Battle Frontier Max Stats Pokemon Database Battle Subway Super Singles record: 623 - Cloyster, Garchomp, Suicune Last edited by Peterko; Sep 7th, 2011 at 4:29:05 AM.

Sep 6th, 2011, 2:36:26 PM	#660
Chinese Dood Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,053	Currently using this team: Whimsicott @ Sash Careful / Prankster - Cotton Spore / Encore / Charm / Flash Smeargle @ Leftovers Jolly / Moody - Spore / Substitute / Quiver Dance / Baton Pass Espeon @ White Herb Timid / Magic Bounce - Calm Mind / Substitute / Stored Power / HP Bug 70 Comment: Should be obvious how this team works, so I won't go into detail. It's just pretty awesome when a 4x resisted Metagross gets OHKO'd by Stored Power. I almost just use Stored Power on anything that is not dark type. Usually I just baton pass when I know Espeon is around +5 or +6 in SpA, at which point stored power is probably usually around 400+ base power. O yeah, obviously Blissey is OHKO'd also. Sometimes I just boost a little bit and then baton pass to Espeon if my opponent has taunt/roar. Magic Bounce hasn't been used that much, but it's still been useful in some situations. Plenty of things can go wrong in the initial setting up, but yah, I'll see how far this one goes. The worst is when Smeargle is setting up but gets both Accuracy and Evasion lowered, because then it can't spore perfectly or just avoid things with Evasion. Also White Herb on Espeon was kind of essential just because getting negative accuracy boosts is not so fun. HP Bug, followed by Calm Mind is the least used move in the team so far, since Smeargle does the job with QD already usually. EDIT: Yeah, I know Calm and Timid are probably better for Whimsicott / Smeargle, but I haven't bothered to breed those and it's not a huge difference anyway, so yeah. O yeah, Stored Power just OHKO'd a Cresselia too. EDIT2: In case one does not know how Stored Power works. It's 20 base power attack initially, and it's +20 base power for each increase in stat (decreases have no effect). So, 6 quiver dances = 6 * 3 * 20 = +360, so 380 base power. With Moody boosting Attack/Accuracy/Evasion/Defense also, it's not hard to get over 400 base power with +6 SpA. Last edited by Chinese Dood; Sep 6th, 2011 at 3:00:51 PM.

Sep 6th, 2011, 2:42:03 PM	#661
sasuke-kun19 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 100	did a decent 37 in double battle mode with this team: Infernape @ Focus Sash Trait: blaze Nature: jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk) EVs: 6HP, 252Atk, 252Spd -Fake out -Flare Blitz -Close Combat -Thunder Punch (any suggestion for this one? useful only against slowbro, gyara and someone else) Tornadus @ flight gem Trait: Prankester Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk) EVs: 6HP, Atk, 252Spd -Acrobatics -Tailwind -Taunt -Protect the strategy used by my two leads is simple: try to set up tailwind when necessary, fake out the most reliable threat that is not a ghost (possibly the one who threats tornadus, because infernape can take a hit thanks to focus sash)... taunt is for trick room Pokes that ruins my whole strategy! if I can hit hard the two opponents without many problems, i go for a double ko with acrobatics and CC/flare blitz, or other times i fake out one of the enemies and kill the other one with acrobatics! the move tailwind is crucial for my other pokes, that are: Excadrill @ life orb Trait: sand rush Nature: adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk) EVs: 6HP, 252Atk, 252Spd -Protect -Earthquake -X-Scissor -Rock Slide hydreigon @ Choice Specs Trait: Levitate Nature: Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk) EVs: 6HP, 252SpA, 252Spd -Dragon Pulse -Dark Pulse -Flamethrower -Surf they can destroy anything that is not resisted, and they have a great potential together! i always go for dragon pulse and rarely use other's hydreigon moves... evs in speed are needed when i don't manage to set up tailwind or when its effect ends and tornadus is dead. the streak is not great but i have to pay more attention because sometimes i simply do terrible mistakes that costs me the match!! anyway i'd like some suggestion to improve it.. i was thinking of dropping excadrill for a special attacker that possibly carries ice beam or something to hit harder pilot's team which are always full of flying pokes, and most notably intimidate leads followed by other intimidate users that cripple 3/4 of my team... thanks in advance __________________ platinum: 3008 6662 2314 heart gold:1892 6544 5774 black (online battles/trades): 4599 1005 7378 ZX93, Bojan and Sasuke-kun Lair

Sep 6th, 2011, 5:40:09 PM	#667
*Jibaku [02:06] <DixieNormous> Rodan x pookar: Just Do It Super Moderator** Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,909 Foursquare, a sprained ankle, bottlecap ninjas, and wallball	One thing that Quiver Dance does that Shell Smash doesn't is the special defense boost, which works well in tandem with Whimsy's Charm to ensure Espeon gets in without the Sub broken. __________________

Sep 6th, 2011, 10:38:28 PM	#671
Chinese Dood Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,053	O yah, I did think about shell smash, and I was actually going to sketch Shell smash, but then for some reason I totally forgot about it and sketched Quiver Dance instead and then decided to go with it to try it out for now anyway. Also, I thought about Xatu, but having to Miracle Eye + Store Power in 2 turns wasn't ... what I would like ideally. EDIT: O yeah, forgot to mention, I'm surprised there was this much interest in my team. It's not even that great, lol. There are plenty of leads that Whimsicott doesn't do such a good job allowing Smeargle to set up on. I have yet to even break 70 streak with this team. Last edited by Chinese Dood; Sep 6th, 2011 at 11:21:24 PM.

Sep 5th, 2011, 8:29:38 PM	#655
Zacchaeus Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,268	Your plan doesn't work. Struggle recoil inflicts 25% damage to the user, so the opponent will survive somewhere between 4-6 turns depending on their item and HP

Sep 6th, 2011, 2:54:32 AM	#657
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	why would u use a ferrothorn over other pokemon (like dd dragonite or something) with curse and substitue, you are crit magnet. if its something like dd feraligatr, u outspeed and ko. unlike ferrothorn.

Sep 6th, 2011, 7:09:27 AM	#658
Eelektrawss Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8 VA	@ Bluemon: Ferrothorn's resistances make it pretty easy to set up on most things, and he also resists every weakness of Gastrodon and Shuckle. Outspeeding isn't really an issue with me atm thanks to Flash. It may come up though, so thanks for the heads up. @ some guy: I thought about Stealth Rock but never got a chance to actually try it out, I have another Shuckle sitting in Plat. that I may try. Power Split does work against Clear Body PKMN though, but I use Gastro Acid mainly for Flash. I haven't really encountered any problems with Sturdy/Sashed PKMN yet, but I'm sure it'll come up. Hmmm, I haven't though about adding another attscker, does Shuckle provide enough support to have 2 set up PKMN? I can see how 'Mence could help with Intimidate though. I've actually considered Leech Seed>Power Whip, but with just Shuckle and Gastrodon as alternates I'd really have problems with Curse Ferrothorn. Bulk up Scrafy wasn't a problem when I faced one early on, but it never Subbed. Flash abuse did help me out a lot though, so maybe I should try some kind of bulky attacker that can also abuse Flash? Thanks for the tips.

Sep 6th, 2011, 4:14:49 PM	#662
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	@chinese dood did you try shell break on smeargle? i can see it being better since its twice as much boosts, and besides, you have calm mind on espeon, which is the same thing as a quiver dance.

Sep 6th, 2011, 5:07:51 PM	#664
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	you do with shell break too. i think quiver dance with calm mind is kinda redundant. you have white herb on espeon anyways ;)

Sep 6th, 2011, 5:22:05 PM	#665
Zacchaeus Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 3,268	Peterko - I also found sun teams very underwhelming bluemon - The proper English name is Shell Smash, and Quiver Dance was probably picked because Shell Smash would make it harder to get the base power of Stored Power up in a timely manner sasuke-kun19 - I really hope you didn't mean to say 37 streak. If you did mean 37, that's really bad and you should do a good amount more work before posting about your team Chinese Dood - You've sparked my interest. Also I'm pissed that Espeon only gets Signal Beam by 4th generation tutor

Sep 6th, 2011, 5:27:27 PM	#666
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	WAIT... wouldnt shell smash make it easier for smeargle/espeon to get the stored power boost? shell smash is +6 (the -2 is mediated by white herb) as opposed to quiver dance's +3

Sep 6th, 2011, 6:00:21 PM	#668
atsync Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 790 Australia	Not to mention it would be kinda risky to lower Smeargles defences. Imagine if it used shell smash unprotected by sub/spore and then got a moody defence drop on top of that (ideally you wouldn't boost without sub or spore active but you never know when something unfortunate will occur than would prevent that for some reason).

Sep 6th, 2011, 6:08:48 PM	#669
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	ehhh, i would rather use memento on whimsicott and use shell smash but i see the logic in quiver dance.

Sep 7th, 2011, 4:38:05 AM	#672
Peterko Never give up! Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,070	AeroChamp Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streak: 88 1. Aerodactyl (M) Item: Choice Band* Ability: Unnerve Nature: Jolly IVs: 31, 31, 31, 08, 31, 31 EV spread: 0, 252, 6, 0, 0, 252 Lv.50: 155, 235, 86, 62, 95, 200 Moves: ~ Rock Slide ~ Aerial Ace ~ Crunch ~ Dragon Claw 2. Machamp (M) Item: Choice Scarf Ability: No Guard Nature: Jolly IVs: 31, 31, 31, 16, 31, 31 EV spread: 6, 252, 0, 0, 0, 252 Lv.50: 166, 182, 100, 70, 105, 175* Moves: ~ DynamicPunch ~ Stone Edge ~ Ice Punch ~ Fire Punch 3. Latios (M) „DRAGON“ Item: Choice Specs* Ability: Levitate Nature: Timid IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252 Lv.50: 156 / 99 / 100 / 273* / 130 / 178 Moves: ~ Psyshock ~ Dragon Pulse ~ Thunderbolt ~ Grass Knot 4. Metagross „DOOMSDAY“ Item: Occa Berry Ability: Clear Body Nature: Adamant IVs: 31, 31, 31, 21, 31, 31 EV spread: 84, 252, 4, 0, 6, 164 Lv.50: 166, 205, 151, 99 , 111, 111 Moves: ~ Iron Head ~ Earthquake ~ Rock Slide ~ Bullet Punch I wanted to try out CB Aero for a long time. I was surprised that it is almost a glass cannon, but why does it always trouble me when I face it? Oh, the speed and Rock Slide, an awful combination. I like AA and DynamicPunch, it´s a great feeling to actually "hit" in the Subway. AeroChamp are surprisingly good together (surprisingly because I just smacked Champ there), Fighting+Rock is a great attacking combination plus Unnerve makes sure no Lum Berries ruin the fun of confusion. Slide+DP = flinchfusion...if only it worked as well as imagined, the foe almost never flinches or hurts itself in confusion when you need it (below are some hax examples of the opposite), oh my god and Rock Slide missing the wrong oponent is the funniest thing...not ._. Note about Unnerve: I like the fact that there´s no Sitrus activation, ChestoRests and Custap hax, but that only applies when Aero is alive...or switch and their Sitrus activates ._., you want to switch back in to nerf their Custap, oh but it activates before you come in lol... #77 vs Veteran Colombo: Suicune, Latias, Zapdos, Virizion 1. Aero Dragon Claw, 90% dmg to Latias, Latias Thunder, Aero fainted, Champ DynamicPunch 30% to Cune, Cune hurt itself. - me Latios 2. Latias DM, Latios fainted, White Herb, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune Rest, Chesto. - me Meta 3. Meta Bullet Punch, Latias fainted, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune hurt itself in its confusion. - foe Zapdos 4. Champ DynamicPunch, Zap Light Screen, Meta Slide 60% dmg to Zap, Cune Ice Beam 128/166, Champ frozen. 5. Zap Thunder, Champ fainted, Meta Slide, Zap fainted, Cune flinched. - foe Virizion 6. Virizion Sacred Sword, Meta Quake, Cune fainted, Viri at 78%. 7. Virizion Protect, Iron Head, Protected. 8. Virizion Sacred Sword Meta at 59/166 HP, Iron Head, 20%HP left. 9. Virizion Protect, Bullet Punch, Protected. 10. Meta Bullet Punch, Virizion fainted. 1-0 Yeah obvious mistake of sending in Latios instead of Meta to finish off foe Latias, end of turn 2 I was pretty much a goner, seeing as Machamp had only 2 more attacks. One of the best Metagross comebacks I experienced. #85 vs Socialite Saty: Cresselia, Suicune, Tornadus, Virizion 1. Cune Protect, Aero Slide 22% to Cresse, Champ DynamicPunch, Cune protected, Cresse Icy Wind. 2. Aero Slide, Champ DynamicPunch, Cresse flinched, Cune hurt itself, Cune Lefties. 3. Aero Slide, Cune avoided, Champ DynamicPunch, Cresse flinched, Cune hurt itself, Cune Lefties. 4. Champ back, Meta in, Aero Slide, CH on Cune, Cune fainted, Cresse at 3%, Icy Wind. - foe Tornadus 5. Aero back, Champ in, Tornadus Focus Blast Champ, Meta Slide, Tornadus avoided, Cresse fainted. - foe Virizion 6. Viri Calm Mind, Champ Stone Edge, 75% to Tornadus, Air Slash, Champ fainted, Meta Iron Head, Tornadus fainted. - me Aero 7. Aero Aerial Ace, CH, Virizion fainted. 3-0 The above battle showcases the simple fact that Rock Slide is among the top worst attacks in the game (hi VGC´11 metagame), I´d say #2 in Subway doubles after Blizzard and also this game sucks, too much hacks. #89 vs Psychic: Spiritomb, Bronzong, Gardevoir, Froslass 1. Crunch + DynamicPunch Bronzong, Tomb WoW Aero, Zong TR through confusion. 2. Zong Zenbutt through confusion, Champ lives with low HP, Tomb Substitute, Champ DP, Zong KO, Aero Crunch Tomb. - foe Gardevoir 3. Tomb Sucker, Champ fainted, Gardevoir Shadow Ball, Aero Crunch CH, Tomb sub broke. - me Meta 4. Tomb Sucker, Aero fainted, Meta Iron Head Tomb to 20%, Garde Bolt. - me Latios 5. Tomb Custap Sucker Latios, Meta Bullet, Tomb fainted, Garde Shadow Ball, Latios fainted. - foe Froslass, TR ended 6. Froslass Shadow Ball, Gardevoir Thunderbolt, Meta fainted. 0-2 Bronzong is a .... and should die in a fire, no wait maybe it´s Heatproof, OK so we need an Earthquake...oh it´s Levitate, after all. Yeah I should change the back row to handle these (and Slow-family) better. Simple, yet one of the better teams I built, 88 on the first try is good (I don´t remember the last time I got over 100 lol). I´d change the back row because Psychics and Harlequins trouble me. __________________ Black & White Battle Subway Records Platinum/HG/SS Battle Frontier and DP Battle Tower Records DP Battle Tower Records (Smogon's Greatest Hits) Emerald Battle Frontier Max Stats Pokemon Database Battle Subway Super Singles record: 623 - Cloyster, Garchomp, Suicune

Sep 7th, 2011, 5:53:28 PM	#673
navy823 Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2	Pokemon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles Record: 90 My team: Tyranitar @ Air Balloon Adamant Sand Stream 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 Def Rock Slide Earthquake Crunch Protect Landorus @ Life Orb Jolly Sand Force 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 SpA Earthquake Rock Slide Hidden Power Ice Protect Excadrill @ Focus Sash Adamant Sand Rush 252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP Earthquake Rock Slide X-Scissor Protect Azelf @ Choice Specs Timid Levitate 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 HP Psyshock Flamethrower Thunderbolt Grass Knot Sand Stream, Sand Rush, Sand Force, you guessed it, a sandstorm team. I tried a sun team and a rain team before this one, but both failed at about 36 battles. I started thinking about a sandstrom team, since Excadrill is one of my favorite Pokemon, and sure enough it worked perfectly. The Quake-Slide combo may seem overused on this team, but it actually helps a lot in double KO's and flinch hax. The first one is obviously Tyranitar. He took hits surprisingly well, even surviving Brick Breaks and Focus Blasts here and there. He did more than I expected him to do. He was also useful for drawing in Fighting and Grass moves, against which he could Protect while Landorus used Earthquake to deal enough damage for a OHKO or a 2HKO. It also surprisingly drew in all status moves such as toxic, so I could Protect with T-tar agaist those as well. It got screwed a few times with priority moves and its Air Balloon, and I made the mistake a few times of killing it after Spiritomb used a Shadow Sneak to pop its Balloon. Overall it made a good partner with Landorus, and it rarely died in any of the battles. Landorus was probably the MVP of the team. 200 BP Earthquake after STAB and Sand Force boost? Yes please. This thing could put dents in anything with its Earthquake. It was faily fast as well, and usually could kill both opponents without even giving them a chance to move. Rock Slide was also boosted and got flinch hax often, crippling pokemon that even resisted it. I'm not sure why I put Hidden Power Ice on him, because the only ones it helped with were Tangrowth, Flygon and Claydol. Everything else took much more damage from Earthquake or Rock Slide. Protect was used only for Ice moves. If an ICe move was on one of the first Pokemon, Landorus would Protect while T-tar would Rock Slide to put them down enough for Landorus to KO them the next turn. Landorus did not die easily as well, and the dynamisc duo of Tyranitar and Landorus was extremely hard to beat. The next Pokemon of the team was Excadrill. If one of the first ones died, I always chose Excadrill to take its place so that Azelf could make the best choice of a move with Choice Specs. When I read Excadrill's first analysis after the Japanese game came out, it was raving about its Sand Rush ability, and I thought, "What's so great about it?" I now know what's so great about it. Excadrill could outspeed anything for a revenge kill, whenter it be a Starmie or a Weavile. It came in and wreched havoc on any team. I first had it with a Ground Gem, but I lost one battle in the 30's because Excadrill was killed in one hit, so I gave it a Focus Sash instead, which proved to be useful many times. I could also afford to run Adamant nature because of Sand Rush, which was also useful. Last and maybe not least is Azelf. I picked Azelf because I like him and I needed a strong Levitater. He was nothing to mess with as well on my team. He rarely got time to shine because of the other members usually taking care of the job, but it was really nice taking out some of those threats with one hit, like Bronzong and Ferrothorn. He basically hit hard and killed as much as he could before dying to attacks and the damage from Sandstorm. I only used Grass Knot once, but it was useful for bulky Ground/Water types. Azelf did a decent job overall and he still gave me a reason to like him. I lost on Battle 91 against a Sunny Day trainer. She started off with a Rapidash and a Victreebel. I thought she would try to pop my T-tar's balloon with Rapidash before my Landorus could use EQ, and I also thought victreebel would try to hit T-tar for a super effective hit, so I Protected with T-tar. Rapidash uses Sunny Day instead, Landorus EQ's taking out Rapidash and leaving Victreebel enough HP tp last 2 Life Orb recoils, and Victreebel Solarbeams my Landorus for a KO. I send in Azelf and she sends in Arcanine. Victreebel starts the turn because of Chlorophyll and takes out T-tar with a Solarbeam, and then dies itself. Azelf Psyshocks Arcanine, putting it in the reds, and Arcanine kills Azelf with a Flamethrower. At this point I'm praying for another fire type so that I can OHKO them both with EQ. I send in Excadrill, and she sands in Tangrowth... and I know its over. Arcanine Flamethrowers and brings it down to its sash, Tangrowth Leech Seeds, Excadrill uses EQ and kills Arcanine and barely dents Tangrowth, and Excadrill loses health from Leech Seed and dies. If i hadn't Protected the first turn, I might have won, but I felt it was reasonable to use Protect becasue of faster opponents hitting my T-tar first and breaking its balloon so Landorus kills it. Oh well. Doubles are more interesting and faster-paced, but also more annoying in my opinion. I prefer singles, but doubles was a nice break from singles. I encourage others to try it at least once, and to try different teams such as rain, sun, and Trick Room teams to see which fits you best.

Sep 7th, 2011, 8:34:09 PM	#674
fluffyflyingpig Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 35	Clearly I've been obsessing over one team for too long, people are coming up with all the other fun stuff I came up with but haven't tested yet. Back over 500, and settled on Dpulse/Psyshock/tbolt/protect. I'll do a last big writeup when i lose this streak. A big congrats to R Inanimate. I had a very very similar rain team mostly bred and trained, glad to see it works in practice. Power split Shuckle was the most exiting thing for me in this gen because I really wanted to make Shuckle work. I tried it with a couple of different sweepers but haven't had much luck. I have been using a Whimsicott/Smergle/Stored power team for breaks between doubles matches. It's pretty silly but a lot of fun. Cotton spore/taunt/worryseed/memento seemed to work better for me, idk. Last edited by fluffyflyingpig; Sep 7th, 2011 at 8:51:00 PM.

Sep 7th, 2011, 9:52:02 PM	#675
Chinese Dood Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 1,053	Worry seed with Smeargle? Is your Smeargle still running Spore then (or... I guess maybe Protect/Sub/Baton Pass/Other Boosting move?)? Sounds interesting Yeah it's pretty silly but fun. :)