Zoroark

[Jimera0]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. Of course anyone who is paying close attention and is knowledgeable about mechanics and movesets is going to be able to tell a Zoroark most of the time. The purpose isn't to fool those types of people, the purpose is specifically to catch those who aren't paying close enough attention, or who don't know the full movepools of almost all pokemon. For those of you who play TF2, you'll know the way this works from the Spy class. Experienced players won't be fooled by almost any disguise unless you go to extreme lengths, but you'll fool many, many more who aren't so experienced or perceptive.

Still, this isn't going to win you any high ranking battles or tournaments obviously. It can help with laddering however, as a lot of the people you're playing aren't going to have their whole attention on the battle, or won't be experienced, etc.

[richja223]

If you have the Zoroark from the new event that has Snarl, the move can be pretty useful. His Special Attack is so high that I found using Nasty Plot, followed by repeated Snarl attacks is pretty effective in Double Battles.

[NoahChron20]

I got that same exact one today!
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Turtwig IS the Pokemon with 2 left feet!

[tomtom5858]

Originally Posted by Fat richja223

If you have the Zoroark from the new event that has Snarl, the move can be pretty useful. His Special Attack is so high that I found using Nasty Plot, followed by repeated Snarl attacks is pretty effective in Double Battles.

And you plan on pulling off multiple Snarls HOW, with those defences?

[kmuffinman]

For Zoroark, it is better to hit hard right off the bat or as soon as possible with NP/SD

[JellyOs]

Haxorus and Zoroark are the best partners IMO.The 2 solid counters to Haxorus are Gliscor and Skarm. You send in Zoro (disguised as HAx, both take same entry damage) and SD. Then use HP Ice or Flamethrower to take Skarm/Glis out and get ready for a DD Haxorus sweep.

I use the zoro set as:
Zoroark@Expert Belt
252 Spe/252 S. Atk/4 HP
Naive/Rash
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-HP Ice
-Flamethrower

SD on the switch, lure Skarm/Glis out while being Haxorus, KO and then Hit stuff with Sucker Punch or your other 2 coverage moves

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat JellyOs

Haxorus and Zoroark are the best partners IMO.The 2 solid counters to Haxorus are Gliscor and Skarm. You send in Zoro (disguised as HAx, both take same entry damage) and SD. Then use HP Ice or Flamethrower to take Skarm/Glis out and get ready for a DD Haxorus sweep.

I use the zoro set as:
Zoroark@Expert Belt
252 Spe/252 S. Atk/4 HP
Naive/Rash
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-HP Ice
-Flamethrower

SD on the switch, lure Skarm/Glis out while being Haxorus, KO and then Hit stuff with Sucker Punch or your other 2 coverage moves

The problem with that is that Haxorus will be forced to use Rivalry, since Mold Breaker gives a visual cue. While Rivalry may have merit in Pokemon Online, Rivalry is garbage and inferior to Mold Breaker in every way in-game. A player can take advantage of the common knowledge that Rivalry sucks in-game and use that information to make a prediction that the "Haxorus" you just sent out is actually Zoroark.

Honestly, I think Infernape is the better partner. It takes the same hazards damage and its ability doesn't give a visual cue, and both also take damage from Sandstorm and Hail. The two also have some moves in common, such as Nasty Plot and Focus Blast. Both can also run a Swords Dance set.

[kmuffinman]

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

The problem with that is that Haxorus will be forced to use Rivalry, since Mold Breaker gives a visual cue. While Rivalry may have merit in Pokemon Online, Rivalry is garbage and inferior to Mold Breaker in every way in-game. A player can take advantage of the common knowledge that Rivalry sucks in-game and use that information to make a prediction that the "Haxorus" you just sent out is actually Zoroark.

Honestly, I think Infernape is the better partner. It takes the same hazards damage and its ability doesn't give a visual cue, and both also take damage from Sandstorm and Hail. The two also have some moves in common, such as Nasty Plot and Focus Blast. Both can also run a Swords Dance set.

i doubt so. Haxorus can still use Rivalry, thus when they don't see Mold Breaker 99% of all players will assume its Rivalry. Come on, who will predict that the Haxorus without MB is Zoroark? Zoroark isn't used at all in the metagame, the only people who have a small chance of catching on are those who have a Zoroark and know how to use it. Anyway, its not like Gliscor/Skarm can threaten Zoroark anyway

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat kmuffinman

i doubt so. Haxorus can still use Rivalry, thus when they don't see Mold Breaker 99% of all players will assume its Rivalry. Come on, who will predict that the Haxorus without MB is Zoroark? Zoroark isn't used at all in the metagame, the only people who have a small chance of catching on are those who have a Zoroark and know how to use it. Anyway, its not like Gliscor/Skarm can threaten Zoroark anyway

Have you honestly seen anyone using Rivalry Haxorus outside of PO? Any player with a brain would think "Hey, this isn't PO! People probably use female Pokemon! I'm gonna use Mold Breaker!".

I'm saying this as someone who has used and currently uses Zoroark in Standard OU. Haxorus is not a good idea for something to disguise Zoroark as.

Yes, Haxorus CAN use Rivalry, but the ability is so terrible outside of PO that you may as well never use it. Also, this noob help called team preview shows your opponent that you have a Zoroark. Zoroark users have to work around team preview, and using Pokemon with abilities that give visual cues (Mold Breaker, Pressure, etc.) aren't gonna help.

It would be like disguising Zoroark as Politoed. Yes, Politoed can use something other than Drizzle, but the other abilities are so inferior to Drizzle that it's not like they'll actually be used. And yet again, team preview.

Have you even competed against any Zoroark users?

[kmuffinman]

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

Have you honestly seen anyone using Rivalry Haxorus outside of PO? Any player with a brain would think "Hey, this isn't PO! People probably use female Pokemon! I'm gonna use Mold Breaker!".

I'm saying this as someone who has used and currently uses Zoroark in Standard OU. Haxorus is not a good idea for something to disguise Zoroark as.

Yes, Haxorus CAN use Rivalry, but the ability is so terrible outside of PO that you may as well never use it. Also, this noob help called team preview shows your opponent that you have a Zoroark. Zoroark users have to work around team preview, and using Pokemon with abilities that give visual cues aren't gonna help.

It would be like disguising Zoroark as Politoed. Yes, Politoed can use something other than Drizzle, but the other abilities are so inferior to Drizzle that it's not like they'll actually be used. And yet again, team preview.

Have you even competed against any Zoroark users?

Yes I have, and on a side note, one guy had the best disguise ever; Shedinja. (being sarcastic if you didn't notice). I used Zoroark before for many matches and I am glad that it has served me well
And I think you misunderstand. I did not mean that Haxorus can be a good partner for Zoroark, I meant that practically no one will predict that this Haxorus is a Zoroark simply because it doesn't have Mold Breaker! I completely agree with your argument that haxorus is not the best partner for Zoroark, I personally used Dusclops, its just that it is very unlikely someone will be able to predict this!

[Molk]

Originally Posted by Fat kmuffinman

Yes I have, and on a side note, one guy had the best disguise ever; Shedinja. (being sarcastic if you didn't notice). I used Zoroark before for many matches and I am glad that it has served me well
And I think you misunderstand. I did not mean that Haxorus can be a good partner for Zoroark, I meant that practically no one will predict that this Haxorus is a Zoroark simply because it doesn't have Mold Breaker! I completely agree with your argument that haxorus is not the best partner for Zoroark, I personally used Dusclops, its just that it is very unlikely someone will be able to predict this!

I cycle between infernape, mismagius, and gengar, depends on the tier

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat kmuffinman

Yes I have, and on a side note, one guy had the best disguise ever; Shedinja. (being sarcastic if you didn't notice). I used Zoroark before for many matches and I am glad that it has served me well
And I think you misunderstand. I did not mean that Haxorus can be a good partner for Zoroark, I meant that practically no one will predict that this Haxorus is a Zoroark simply because it doesn't have Mold Breaker! I completely agree with your argument that haxorus is not the best partner for Zoroark, I personally used Dusclops, its just that it is very unlikely someone will be able to predict this!

Why would you use Dusclops as a partner for Zoroark? Sure, Dark and Ghost go together like peanut butter and jelly, but Dusclops's only ability is Pressure, meaning your opponent will immediately figure out that your "Dusclops" is a Zoroark.

Honestly, I can't see that working against anyone who has an understanding of the metagame.

[Lucalibur]

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

Honestly, I can't see that working against anyone who has an understanding of the metagame.

QTF


he can work sometimes, depending on what type of mindgames you use and how good the enemy is at seeing through them, but most of the time Zoroark will simply be a inferior sweeper on your team that can be easily replaced.



he is still really Badass though.

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucalibur

QTF


he can work sometimes, depending on what type of mindgames you use and how good the enemy is at seeing through them, but most of the time Zoroark will simply be a inferior sweeper on your team that can be easily replaced.



he is still really Badass though.

I dunno, I've been able to use Zoroark successfully against players who were actually good.

Then again, I don't use Pokemon with abilities like Pressure for disguises.

[Lucalibur]

emphasy on the fact i said he can work sometimes, but will fail most of the time.


and yeah, having a team without any pokemons that got abilities such pressure or mold breaker helps a lot on the long run.

[kmuffinman]

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

Why would you use Dusclops as a partner for Zoroark? Sure, Dark and Ghost go together like peanut butter and jelly, but Dusclops's only ability is Pressure, meaning your opponent will immediately figure out that your "Dusclops" is a Zoroark.

Honestly, I can't see that working against anyone who has an understanding of the metagame.

well that was when i was still starting out, and used Zoroark for a lead. i wasn't processing such things then :p

[Emperor]

Just noting from the Move Tudors thread that Zoroark is going to get...Trick

Should be fun to abuse :P Random Choice Tricking on people who can't Trick

[Jukain]

And Low Kick iirc.

[LucaroarkZ]

I've been using Trick on Choice Specs Zoroark on Pokemon Showdown lately, it's loads of fun to use. Disguise it as something that doesn't learn Trick, and use Trick as their wall that won't like being tricked Choice Specs comes in. I haven't tried Low Kick yet, but in theory it would be a nice alternative to Focus Blast (and I think with the right EVs, it will do more than a max SpA Focus Blast to Blissey. Don't know though). But, that's theory. Low Kick is definitely going to replace Low Sweep on physical Zoroark sets though (not like anyone uses those anyway)

[Challenger]

Originally Posted by Fat LucaroarkZ

The problem with that is that Haxorus will be forced to use Rivalry, since Mold Breaker gives a visual cue. While Rivalry may have merit in Pokemon Online, Rivalry is garbage and inferior to Mold Breaker in every way in-game. A player can take advantage of the common knowledge that Rivalry sucks in-game and use that information to make a prediction that the "Haxorus" you just sent out is actually Zoroark.

Honestly, I think Infernape is the better partner. It takes the same hazards damage and its ability doesn't give a visual cue, and both also take damage from Sandstorm and Hail. The two also have some moves in common, such as Nasty Plot and Focus Blast. Both can also run a Swords Dance set.

You can take it a step further. Skarmory "counters" Haxorus by absorbing its attacks and then whirlwinding it out, or by Brave Bird. Using Nasty plot or swords dance either has your Zoroark phased, or massively damaged by a pretty sad attack.

[LucaroarkZ]

Originally Posted by Fat Challenger

You can take it a step further. Skarmory "counters" Haxorus by absorbing its attacks and then whirlwinding it out, or by Brave Bird. Using Nasty plot or swords dance either has your Zoroark phased, or massively damaged by a pretty sad attack.

First off, that comment I made was made like, 9 months ago. Also, Skarmory won't be enjoying anything from Nasty Plot Zoroark excluding Dark Pulse/Night Daze, as a +2 Focus Blast OHKOs after Sturdy is broken and Flamethrower OHKOs after Sturdy is broken regardless of whether or not Zoroark has boosts. SD Zoroark is actually really bad and almost completely outclassed by Lucario and Terrakion, so no Zoroark users really use it. So, I don't see what your point is.

[ChrisTehAwesome]

Choice Specs Zoroark is quite the force. As a lead it OHKO's Deoxys-D with a Modest Nature, which is really nice. Midgame it is even more powerful, as it's a lot less predictable. Showdown's team switch feature coupled with new threats that occupy everyone's attention lets our favorite Illusionist sneak around and Trick everything. Definitely an underrated threat.