Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[Chinese Dood]

That's interesting. It's good to know that it works to some degree. I was thinking of trying out an Eviolite Prankster Murkrow with Quash (but haven't got much of the details figured out yet).

Currently at 77 streak in Double Subway:
Dugtrio / Arena Trap / Jolly @ Sash: Bulldoze / Beat Up / Memento / Rockslide
Terrakion / Justified / Jolly @ Wide Lens: Rockslide / Protect / Earthquake / Sacred Sword
Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Life Orb: Psyshock / Grass Knot / Dragon Pulse / Thunderbolt
Rotom-H / Levitate / Timid @ Scarf: Trick / Thunderbolt / Overheat / HP Ice 70

Just trying out Beat Up Justified... Latios and Rotom-H were just levitating fillers that help out. A couple close calls, but yah, I wouldn't bother with having this on record list until I post an update of when I lose. Won't say much more about the team either since it's more or less self explanatory.

Well, maybe one thing. Memento is mainly so Latios or Rotom can get in for free and attack. Usually I memento something that threatens Terrakion, unless Terrakion is already low on health. Bulldoze for slowing pokemon down and some damage obviously.

EDIT: Lost at battle 85. Opponent had Gengar Bouffalant lead. Gengar OHKO'd Terrakion with Focus Blast and I was at a huge disadvantage from there on. Ended up with Rotom vs Archeops and 60% Probopass. Tbolt KOs Archeops. Stone Edge brings Rotom to red. If Rotom does not crit with Tbolt (or Probopass Stone Edge/whatever move does not miss), I lose, and Tbolt didn't crit, bringing Probopass to around 20%, Stone Edge hits and KOs Rotom. Heh. Not too big of a deal. Now that I think of it, I'm not sure why I'm even using a Dugtrio instead of Whimsicott (which can tailwind > Bulldoze). Probably it was because BeatUp + Memento is illegal egg combo on Whimsicott. O well. I'll see what I come up with next.

[atsync]

Actually Murkrow sounds like the best user of Quash for general teams (Kingdra is only good in rain). Can't believe I never thought of it before. I have a dream world Murkrow in my PC somewhere so I too might try it sometime.

Too bad the move has such poor distribution because it has good potential. To me it seems that the only things that learn it that can actually use it effectively are Murkrow, Kingdra (in rain) and maybe Raikou because of its base 115 speed.

[Chinese Dood]

Maybe potentially Slowking (or Spiritomb?) in Trick Room, but yah, I didn't actually realize that only very few pokemon actually learn this move (I was mainly looking into Murkrow because it seems to have a lot of different options... like I even thought about using Psych Up on it for this current Beat Up Justified team, since Psyching Up to get +4 with Sucker Punch isn't bad when it has decent bulk through Eviolite and ground immunity for Terrakion's EQs, but have yet to try out, since I'm not sure its bulk is enough).

[bluemon]

how common are spiritomb and sableye?

[ashez]

4 spirtomb and no sableye.

so its 4 spirtombs out 998 different pokemon sets according to list on first page lol

so not common yet if your team struggles with them it'l be more common lol

Edit: Just printed out the spreadsheets great work guys ow you alot :)

[Destiny Warrior]

I think the Pokemon you face isn't taken randomly out of 900+ mons. IIRC the game starts with the smaller no.s and gradually goes up to the higher numbers.

[Peterko]

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks: 252, 95, 56, 25
When (highest): September 16th until September 18th, 2011

1. Whimsicott (F) „LOCA“
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31-00-31-31-31-31
EV spread: 0-0-0-252-6-252
Lv.50: 135-64-105-129-96-184
Moves:
~ Giga Drain
~ Sunny Day
~ Tailwind
~ Beat Up

Yeah, crazy Pokémon. Whimsicott is one of the best Pokémon in the game thanks to Prankster. It has so many options but just 4 moveslots. Initially used Grass Knot with a more defensive EV spread but it didn´t work as I lost two early streaks (that I didn´t count). I don´t like the fact that Grass Knot triggers Static. Giga Drain is a surprisingy good attack on Whimsicott, it often lets you live longer and even finish battles at full health. The negative is that it misses OHKOs even on some of the 6x weak Ground/Water types. Sunny Day is superb. It priority kills enemy weather (#1), ensures you won´t get frozen (#2), makes Water attacks neutral on Terrakion (#3) and boosts Darmanitan´s Flare Blitz to spectacular levels (#4). Beat Up your partner, who likes it. This Pokémon is not easy to use, because there´s always more than one option plus the AI is often unpredictable. Para status sucks if you haven´t used Beat Up yet although you still priority set up and outspeed over 40% of the Subway under Tailwind (92 speed).

2. Terrakion „LACOSTE“
Item: Wide Lens
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31-31-30-02-31-31
EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
Lv.50: 167-181-110-70-111-176
Moves:
~ Sacred Sword
~ Rock Slide
~ X-Scissor
~ Protect

1-2-2-2. That´s the most frequent Beat Up damage. This works rather well at +4 (tripled attack) but isn´t unstoppable. Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves. Rock Slide misses very rarely (once in about 50 battles) and flinches, saving your butt a lot. X-Scissor is a necessity for Psychic types, for example to stop TR on Slowbro/King most of the time. Certain Poison types like Nidoqueen resist all your lead´s attacks but Latios should fix those. The AI´s randomness of Poison/Grass types is annoying. They either SolarBeam Terrakion or Sludge Bomb+Poison Whimsicott, effectively OHKOing both. 176 speed gets on my nerves as there´s 4 other Pokémon tieing with you, but the ones that outspeed you by 2 points or more like Froslass and Espeon are even worse. This lead duo is as effective as the person using it. One bad decision / hax / AI randomness and it falls apart like a house of cards.

3. Darmanitan (M) „BOROTRA“
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31-31-30-17-30-31
EV spread: 6-252-0-0-0-252
Lv.50: 181-211-75-38-75-147
Moves:
~ Flare Blitz
~ Rock Slide
~ Earthquake
~ Protect

You really don´t want to face a Flare Blitz from a Sheer Force Life Orb Darmanitan under Sun and Tailwind, it´s insane. It OHKOs even the likes of Cofagrigus. Note that there´s no HP losss drawback of Life Orb when using Flare Blitz and Rock Slide ;) Recently, switched to Jolly, because of cases when I don´t set up Tailwind or when it peters out.

4. Latios (M) „DRAGON“
Item: Choice Specs*
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31-31
EV spread: 6 –0-0-252-0-252
Lv.50: 156-99-100-273*-130-178
Moves:
~ Psyshock
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Thunderbolt
~ Grass Knot

A staple of my teams. In the back row, at times, I miss Protect.

Team weaknesses: Hax, AI unpredictability, Trick Room. Hail teams are dangerous for everyone, even priority Sunny Day alongside Terrakion and Darmanitan won´t always save you. There´s no way to stop TR from being set up by certain Pokémon like Dusknoir and Cofagrigus, unless you flinch them (most of the time you´re occupied with their partner, anyway). Protect helps a lot in these cases, as do timely switches.

I´d say using the moveset and trainer list is mandatory with this team. Turn 1 & 2 decisions are even more important than with other teams.

I was sceptical of Terracott, because I lost my first streak at #14. Then months later I tried another, losing at #20. I didn´t give up and reEVd Whimsicott to max spA/speed (actually taking another lv.1 Cotonee I bred and training it within 30 minutes), giving it Giga Drain because of static. It worked really well and once again, the highest streak I got was on my first try.

Here are battle logs of close matches and losses:

Streak #1

#169 vs Psychic: Gallade, Drifblim, Gardevoir, Cofagrigus
1. Whimsi Beat Up, Terra X-Scissor, Gallade fainted, Drifblim Hypnosis, Terra fell asleep.
- foe Gardevoir
2. Whimsi Tailwind, Gardevoir Psychic Whimsi, Drifblim Shadow Ball Terra, Tera fast asleep.
3. Whimsi Sunny Day, Gardevoir Psychic, Terra fainted, Drifblim Shadow Ball, Whimsi fainted.
- me Darm + Latios
4. Latios Bolt, Drifblim at 20%, Darm Flare Blitz, Gardevoir fainted.
- foe Cofagrigus
5. Drifblim Custap Shadow Ball, Latios fainted, Darm Flare Blitz, Cofagrigus fainted, Tailwind petered out.
6. Darm Flare Blitz, Drifblim fainted, recoil, Darm fainted.
0-0, streak continues.

I would´ve lost if it were an Unburden Drifblim. Thunderbolting it was a mistake in the first place.

#186 vs Worker: Froslass, Vanilluxe, Glaceon, Walrein
1. Whimsi Beat Up, Froslass Blizzard, Terra frozen, Vanilluxe Blizzard, Whimsi fainted, Terra at 2 HP.
- me Darmanitan
2. Lass Ice Shard, Terra fainted, Darm Rock Slide, Lass avoided, 80% dmg to Vanilla, Vanilla Flash Cannon Darm.
- me Latios, 2-4
3. Latios Psyshock, Lass fainted, Darm Slide, Vanilla fainted.
- foe Glaceon & Walrein, 2-2
4. Latios Psyshock, Darmanitan Slide, Glaceon fainted, Walrein Curse.
5. Latios Psyshock, Walrein fainted.
2-0

#253 vs Nursery Aide Evelyn: Glaceon, Espeon, Jolteon, Vaporeon
1. Terra Protect, Whimsi Sunny Day, Espy Psychic Gem Psychic, Whimsi Focus Sash, Glace Blizzard, Whimsi fainted.
- me Latios
2. Latios Dragon Pulse, 90% to Espy, Espy Psychic, Terra fainted, Glace Blizzard, Latios avoided.
- me Darmanitan
3. Espeon Psychic, Darm 52/181 HP, Latios Dragon Pulse, Espy fainted, Darm Flare Blitz, Glace fainted, recoil, Darm fainted.
- foe jolteon & vaporeon
4. Jolt Shadow Ball, Latios 68/156 HP, Latios Dragon Pulse, CH, Vaporeon fainted.
5. Jolt Shadow Ball, Latios fainted.
0-1

Streak #2

#96 vs Biker: Garchomp, Escavalier, Starmie, Metagross
1. Tailwind, Scary Face, Iron Head, Protected
2. Switch in Darm instead of Terra, Beat Up Darm (misclick), Scary Face Darm, Megahorn, Sash.
3. Sunny Day, Incinerate, KO, Flare Blitz, Esca fainted.
- me Latios, foe Starmie
4. Latios Dragon Pulse, 98% dmg to Starmie, Starmie Psychic, Darm fainted, Chomp Scary Face Latios
- me Terra
5. Terra Protect, Starmie Ice Beam Latios, Chomp Fire Blast Latios, Latios D-Pulse, Starmie fainted.
- foe Meta
6. Chomp Fire Blast, Latios fainted, Terra Sacred Sword, Meta Meteor Mash, Terra fainted.
0-2

Streak #3

#57 vs Veteran Donta: Muk, Glaceon, Tyranitar, Haxorus
1. Whimsi Beat Up, Terra Sacred Sword, Glaceon fainted, Muk Gunk Shot, Whimsi Sash.
- foe Tyranitar
2. Terra Protect, Whimsi Sunny Day, Muk Shadow Sneak, Whimsi fainted, Ttar Superpower, Terra protected.
- me Darmanitan
3. Muk QC BB CH OHKO Terra, Darm Flare Blitz, Muk fainted, Ttar Rock Slide, Darm fainted.
- me Latios, foe Haxorus
4. Latios Dragon Pulse, Haxo fainted, Ttar Slide.
5. Latios Dragon Pulse, Ttar Slide, Latios fainted.
0-1

Streak #4

#26 vs Nurse set3, not4: Gastrodon, Cofagrigus, Golurk, Meganium
1. Whimsi Giga Drain, Gastro fainted, Terra Sacred Sword, Cofagrigus immune, Trick Room.
- foe Golurk
2. Terra Protect, Cofag Shadow Ball, Golurk Earthquake, Terra protected, Whimsi Giga Drain.
3. Terra out, Latios in, Cofag Destiny Bond, Golurk DynamicPunch, Whimsi confused, hurt itself.
4. Cofag Shadow Ball, Whimsi fainted, Golurk Shadow Punch, Latios fainted.
- me Darm & Terra
5. Dual Protect, Trick Room ended.
6. Double Rock Slide, Cofag fainted, Golurk at 1% HP, Golurk Earthquake, Darm fainted, Terra lives.
- foe Meggy
7. Terra Rock Slide, Golurk fainted, Meggy flinched.
8. Terra X-Scissor, Meggy 10% left, Meggy Seed Bomb, Terra fainted.
0-1

[Cradily]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle streaks: 252, 95, 56, 25
When (highest): September 16th until September 18th, 2011



2. Terrakion „LACOSTE“
Item: Wide Lens
Ability: Justified
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31-31-30-02-31-31
EV spread: 0-252-0-0-6-252
Lv.50: 167-181-110-70-111-176
Moves:
~ Sacred Sword
~ Rock Slide
~ X-Scissor
~ Protect

1-2-2-2. That´s the most frequent Beat Up damage. This works rather well at +4 (tripled attack) but isn´t unstoppable. Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves. Rock Slide misses very rarely (once in about 50 battles) and flinches, saving your butt a lot. X-Scissor is a necessity for Psychic types, for example to stop TR on Slowbro/King most of the time. Certain Poison types like Nidoqueen resist all your lead´s attacks but Latios should fix those. The AI´s randomness of Poison/Grass types is annoying. They either SolarBeam Terrakion or Sludge Bomb+Poison Whimsicott, effectively OHKOing both. 176 speed gets on my nerves as there´s 4 other Pokémon tieing with you, but the ones that outspeed you by 2 points or more like Froslass and Espeon are even worse. This lead duo is as effective as the person using it. One bad decision / hax / AI randomness and it falls apart like a house of cards.

Nice I totally forgot about ignoring evasion boosts from sacred sword. Thats a great way to kill pesky brightpowder abusers. I'll have to try that at some point.

[UpsideDownHitmontop]

Originally Posted by Fat Cradily

Nice I totally forgot about ignoring evasion boosts from sacred sword. Thats a great way to kill pesky brightpowder abusers. I'll have to try that at some point.

I don't think it ignores evasion boosts from items/snow cloak/sand veil. It only ignores evasion boosts from moves like double team.

[Peterko]

Exactly, that´s why I wrote "Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves." as I researched the other cases where it missed, so:

Curse, Cotton Guard, Stockpile, Iron Defense, etc. (foe raised its defense stat) - yes
Double Team, Minimize (foe raised its evasion) - yes

Snow Cloak, Sand Veil (foe´s ability) - no
BrightPowder, Lax Incense (foe´s held item) - no
Flash, Kinesis, Smokescreen, etc. (your own lowered accuracy) - no

but Terra holds Wide Lens, which means Powder and Lax Incense are almost nullified (100 x 0,9 x 1,1 = 99).

Also posting to say that I think I´m the only person who doesn´t like the fact that the 2012 VGC season begins in November 2011 in North America...it means TPCI pretty much killed this records topic lol :(

We needed more people like twash to play the Subway, but now everyone competitive is more likely to play PO and test teams for the new metagame...instead of the Subway

This is even worse now that the dominant feelings I get from playing the Subway are nervousness, disappointment and anger, so I have to force myself to actually play these days lol...on the other hand, getting 10 doubles teams on the list and the experience I gathered during thousands of Subway double battles should help if I decide to play the next season´s VGC...I did quite a few battles on PO already and it amuses me how everyone uses politoed+ludicolo leads only to fall to my countermeasure :p

oh, forgot to mention that earlier today, I updated the list, also added twash´s links to Subway movesets with lv.50 stats

[Chinese Dood]

@Peterko: Did you misplay in your #253 battle in the first turn? Like outspeeding Espy (via Tailwind) should be more important than preventing freeze (via Sunny Day)? Anyway, still awesome job! Much higher than anything I have to show for.

[Cradily]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Exactly, that´s why I wrote "Sacred Sword ignores oponent´s Defense and Evasion boosts from moves." as I researched the other cases where it missed, so:

Curse, Cotton Guard, Stockpile, Iron Defense, etc. (foe raised its defense stat) - yes
Double Team, Minimize (foe raised its evasion) - yes

Snow Cloak, Sand Veil (foe´s ability) - no
BrightPowder, Lax Incense (foe´s held item) - no
Flash, Kinesis, Smokescreen, etc. (your own lowered accuracy) - no

Bummer, whoops, wells not that useful but it still helps.

[Peterko]

Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood

@Peterko: Did you misplay in your #253 battle in the first turn? Like outspeeding Espy (via Tailwind) should be more important than preventing freeze (via Sunny Day)? Anyway, still awesome job! Much higher than anything I have to show for.

Thanks.

You´re right, of course. It was the first battle that day (after 147 the day before) and I guess I panicked upon seeing Glaceon and maybe I had that other battle I posted (where I got frozen) still in mind. That pokémon is a nightmare (QC/Sash/Powder/Snow Cloak and Blizzard, are you serious Game Freak?), like #2 after Froslass (did I mention I hate 178 speed?). Yes, in that first moment I forgot the 178 speed on Espeon that Terra has a 50/50 chance to OHKO...

With Tailwind up, Latios and Darmanitan would´ve cleaned up nicely.

I remember another case of losing because of not Tailwinding when it was obvious and that was in Paris top 16 this year omg...

[atsync]

Thanks for updating the list Peterko, but you made a minor mistake. You basically need to move myself and kuladiamond up 2 spots on the singles list.

Screw VGC, I'm still playing subway (not that my streaks are jawdroppingly good but still :D)

[bluemon]

Trying to use a hyper offensive sand team.
which poke should i use?

tyranitar or hippowdon.
I know what you guys are thinking, this team is TOO FIGHTING WEAK, or TOO WATER TYPE WEAK.

its okay. i will destroy it before it destroys me.
i have the other two pokes down, but i need to solidify my options.

item on excadrill?
return or x-scissor?

also, what item on garchomp?


excadrill @widelens/air balloon/life orb
ability: sand rush
trait: adamant
52hp/252atk/20def/12sp.def/172speed
-swords dance
-earthquake
-rock slide
-return/x-scissor

garchomp @leftovers/brightpowder
ability: sand veil
trait: jolly
4hp/244atk/4def/4sp.def/252speed
-sub
-swords dance
-dragon claw
-earthquake

[atsync]

I prefer X-scissor personally, though it probably depends on what moves you put on your lead (if the lead can deal with most of the stuff X-scissor hits, then there would be less need for X-scissor).

As for items, it's usually better just to try them all out and see which one works best for you.

[bluemon]

hmmm... im leaning towards ttar. with chople berry.

[ashez]

you may have already looked but i used a sandstorm team in singles, and my orgininal team was similar to urs but chomp and drill are way to similar i tried them a few times and just didnt click. obviously my team started out offensive and turned into a team consisting of a stat dropper/sweeper/wall and in my opinion its only way sandstorm will work in singles. the coverage isnt good enough, and shares to many weaknesses and commom ones at that, you'l be bombarded with water and fight trainers and i cant see how you'd pull wins out consistantly lol.

but out the two leads you memtioned i'd defo go for fasthippos, hippo lol its a monster! but i personally aint to fond of ttar lol

[Oliver1224]

Hello all, im new here as a member but have been a lurker for quite a while. Anyways, i've built a team that looks good (to me anyways). My current streak in the super singles atm is 55 (and still going). I finished my whimsicott this morning and started the super singles. I decided to take a break for a bit. Anyways, heres the team.

Gengar@ Focus sash
Hasty
252SpA/252Spe/6HP
Thunderbolt
Shadowball
Counter
Destiny Bond



Whimsicott@ Occa berry
Bold
252HP/252def/6SpDef
Charm
Memento
Leech Seed
Stun Spore



Garchomp@ Yache berry
Jolly
252Atk/252Spe/6HP
Swords Dance
Substitute
Earthquake
Outrage


The reason this team looked good to me without much thought was because, Gengar can most likely get the first 2 of the opponents pokes out of the way. If not 2, always 1. Which leaves Garchomp and Whimsi to clean up the rest. With Whimsi crippling the opponent, and yache berry and sub on Garchomp, i thought that even 2 remaining ice types wouldnt give me much trouble. im sure you guys can see where im going with this team, and the way im trying to use this setup. sorry for the crappy format, and i know i suck at explaining things. i also didnt mean to make this a RMT if thats what it looks like.

[Chinese Dood]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

We needed more people like twash to play the Subway, but now everyone competitive is more likely to play PO and test teams for the new metagame...instead of the Subway

People will have to breed for their pokemon eventually, and now subway and vgc have the exact same rules (other than no auto levelling to 50 for vgc?), so maybe people will still try out their teams in double subway I hope! :P

EDIT:
@Oliver1224: That is sort of an interesting idea I think. I mean, I'm not sure how far it will get, but just making use of Destiny Bond to make it a 2 vs 2 is interesting to look into. I dunno, I was just thinking just now maybe 2nd pokemon could be a trick-scarf crippler with a 3rd pokemon set up sweeper (not too unlike your current team). Even if opponent's 2nd pokemon is locked into a non damaging move and switching, it will still just be a crippler + a set up sweeper vs an unknown pokemon + a known choice-locked pokemon. Haha, I dunno. Maybe I'll try out something similar in the future.

[Oliver1224]

the thought of a 2v2 or even 2v1 in the subway is what got me going to make this team. i searched everywhere to see if anyone else had made a team kinda like this one, but i couldnt find anything. im glad i decided to give it a try though, my streak is at 79 and still going at the moment. ive actually had little to no problems either. one close call with a mence/dragonite/kingdra team, but that was due to a misclick with gengar. actually pain split Spiritomb gives me trouble, i dont know what set spiritomb that is but they always use him as their lead.

i'll post pics of my team and streak after i lose, dont know when that will be though. probably soon with my luck. you should do the team with the 2nd poke being trickscarf crippler, i think its a great idea. might try it myself after this streak.

[bluemon]

now that sableye is released......

theorymon time
i just came up with this team quickly. its a doubles team, and i dont have all 4 pokes yet. here it is without ev spreads

sableye
-swagger
-foul play
-recover
-sub

quagsire
(unaware)
-stockpile
-swagger
-recover
-scald

sounds good on paper...

[Cradily]

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

now that sableye is released......

theorymon time
i just came up with this team quickly. its a doubles team, and i dont have all 4 pokes yet. here it is without ev spreads

sableye
-swagger
-foul play
-recover
-sub

quagsire
(unaware)
-stockpile
-swagger
-recover
-scald

sounds good on paper...

So Sableye is just trying to make its opponent hurt its self in confusion? or is there another role I'm missing

[atsync]

So Sableye is just trying to make its opponent hurt its self in confusion? or is there another role I'm missing

I think the idea is to boost the opponents attack with swagger to boost the power of foul play while using sub, stockpile, recover and unaware to minimize the amount of damage taken if they hit through the confusion.

I don't see it working.

[Chinese Dood]

Yeah, relying on confusion is just not a good idea, and then of course there are Own Tempo pokemon like Lilligant that just does not care about quagsire.