Official(!) Smogon University PO Stats -- September 2011

[Antar*]

I've just posted stats (both for this month and for the past three months) for the "full team method" (only count teams where all six pokemon were revealed).

The percentages tend to be different, especially towards the tops of the usage stats, but the thing I think most people care about is the cutoff point (tiers).

So here's the difference in tierings that I'm seeing between the two versions:

• Mamoswine falls to UU with Maestro's method, stays OU with the full-team method
• Tangrowth falls to RU with Maestro, Aerodactyl stays OU; switch that for full-team (Gastro is OU no matter which analysis we use)
• With Maestro's method, Kabutops and Ludicolo are RU; full team method has them as part of the initial NU

As far as I can tell, these were the only differences. Granted, I just did a quick look. Let me know if I missed something.

The point of this exercise is this: the more full-team agrees with Maestro, the better the chances are that both would agree with stats that had been compiled with the old method (remember: we *can't* compile stats with the old method right now due to the fact that the server doesn't collect the relevant info).

So yes, that Hippo-Stoutland gap that Snuch pointed out is indeed an artifact in the methods I use. HOWEVER, I hope I've convinced him and anyone else that my methods are a little more "trustworthy" for determining tiers.

[bwburke94]

So we're all set for NU play now? I've been waiting for a year to play NU, and it looks like a weatherless NU is a possibility. Last gen NU was too much hail.

[melvni]

Originally Posted by Fat bwburke94

So we're all set for NU play now? I've been waiting for a year to play NU, and it looks like a weatherless NU is a possibility. Last gen NU was too much hail.

Originally Posted by Fat Antar

Three-month RU stats

 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | 71   | Snover          | 0      |  2.602% |

RU

 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon         | Usage  | Percent | 
 + ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- + 
 | 86   | Snover          | 0      |  2.147% |

Weatherless NU? I think not. Instead, prepare for the wrath of the mighty NU Perma-hail equipped Stallrein (insert evil laugh and/or apologies for having to deal with this here).

You may not like it, but, with Hippowdon's potential drop down to UU meaning that Hippopotas will probably drop to RU, I don't see a dramatic rise in Snover anytime soon (at least not a permanent one, it could always rise during the period in which both the hippos would technically by UU and gain a RU spot for a few months or so).

[bwburke94]

Uh oh, Snover's back? I better build an anti-hail team!

[Antar*]

I'd love to see an initial NU metagame, and of course there's nothing to stop anyone from playing a battle where you and your opponent restrict yourselves to only pokemon found on my NU list.

But I doubt we'll see an official NU (as supported on the Smogon server and with analyses and suspect testing) for quite a bite longer.

[Ereborus Nyx]

i think Landorus should be higher up the OU ladder, since it is beast under Sandstorm, which we don't see to much of these days!

[HuntSaboteur]

Gastrodon isn't even good in RU. ROFLYSST.

I'm actually compiling my own stats at the moment.

[Meru]

15. Deoxys-S +10
32. Espeon +2
37. Vaporeon +2
49. Mew +6
68. Gorebyss +18
71. Ninjask +11

Does this not say that Baton Pass has had a giant spike?

Would've included Celebi since it managed to retain it's #19 position.

[Raikaria]

*Sigh*

And thus a pokemon goes up to OU purely because it checks Rain.

Even though if they carry HP Grass or Ferrothorn, Gastrodon becomes either dead or lets free hazards up.

And Gastrodon fails against any other type of team.

Meanwhile, Porygon2 failed to do this when he checked Gyarados, Heatran, Salamence, Vaporeon and Jolteon with the same moveset! One of which ended up an Uber...

See parralells?

Originally Posted by Fat Nelson-X

Vaporeon, Swampert OU ? wtf ?...

These things are shit and it's funny to see Tornadus UU. I guess he will be fine in UU without drizzle to support him.

Vaporeon is a pretty decent Wishpasser still, and has some teeth under Rain [And can stall with HydraRest].

Also, it's used on Baton Pass teams to pass Acid Armors and Roar out opposing Stat-Uppers. Vapreon would probobly be a solid OU if Rotom-W and Ferrothorn wasn't everywhere. It's far from shit.

And Swampert, if it wasn't for rain, deserves OU more than Gastrodon...

[waterwarrior]

| 13 | Keldeo | 116 | 10.199% |

Wait wut? I never saw a Keldeo used by anyone but me :S

[Arcticblast]

Only 116 uses.

How many times did you battle last month? 116?

[waterwarrior]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

Only 116 uses.

How many times did you battle last month? 116?

Saying as Chansey has only 64, and I used her in every battle, it can't be all me lol.

EDIT: | 29 | Tentacruel | 28450 | 7.134% |
| 38 | Latias | 22083 | 5.538% |


What is this I don't even...

[Antar*]

Originally Posted by Fat waterwarrior

Saying as Chansey has only 64, and I used her in every battle, it can't be all me lol.

Remember that the stats are for only pokemon that actually appear in battle, rather than all pokemon on a team [edit: though why you'd send out Keldeo twice as often as Chansey, I'd have no idea]

But we are in the realm of small-number statistics for those metagames. One or two trainers (especially if they're extremely active) will greatly skew the stats.

[BTzz]

Tentacruel's position isnt THAT surprising. It's a staple on Rain stall teams (which are gaining popularity), but yeah Latias should be higher.

[skitz0phrenic]

| 65 | Roserade | 9059 | 2.272% |

Why so low....this thing is so good against rain and sand teams.

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Originally Posted by Fat HuntSaboteur

Gastrodon isn't even good in RU. ROFLYSST.

I'm actually compiling my own stats at the moment.

W. T. F.

Gastrodon is actually extremely solid in RU, espescially alongside Ferroseed. Provides a very strong check to the tiers special attackers, assuming your not fool enough to treat it like Chansey and be able to wall anything at anytime. IMO, being a full stop to any Yanmega at full health, and being able to switch into ones lacking Giga Drain is extremely solid.

[Pocket]

Originally Posted by Fat Antar

I've just posted stats (both for this month and for the past three months) for the "full team method" (only count teams where all six pokemon were revealed).

The percentages tend to be different, especially towards the tops of the usage stats, but the thing I think most people care about is the cutoff point (tiers).

So here's the difference in tierings that I'm seeing between the two versions:

• Mamoswine falls to UU with Maestro's method, stays OU with the full-team method
• Tangrowth falls to RU with Maestro, Aerodactyl stays OU; switch that for full-team (Gastro is OU no matter which analysis we use)
• With Maestro's method, Kabutops and Ludicolo are RU; full team method has them as part of the initial NU

As far as I can tell, these were the only differences. Granted, I just did a quick look. Let me know if I missed something.

The point of this exercise is this: the more full-team agrees with Maestro, the better the chances are that both would agree with stats that had been compiled with the old method (remember: we *can't* compile stats with the old method right now due to the fact that the server doesn't collect the relevant info).

So yes, that Hippo-Stoutland gap that Snuch pointed out is indeed an artifact in the methods I use. HOWEVER, I hope I've convinced him and anyone else that my methods are a little more "trustworthy" for determining tiers.

I think using full-team method may be more accurate. That split in Hippopotas and Stoutland's usage for this month was slightly disturbing.

[yaya0]

 | 125  | Rotom-H         | 1864   |  0.467% | 
 | 126  | Claydol         | 1838   |  0.461% | 
 | 127  | Slowking        | 1832   |  0.459% |

This is just wrong.


(fyi, about 300 of those Claydol uses were mine.)

[skitz0phrenic]

Originally Posted by Fat yaya0

 | 125  | Rotom-H         | 1864   |  0.467% | 
 | 126  | Claydol         | 1838   |  0.461% | 
 | 127  | Slowking        | 1832   |  0.459% |

This is just wrong.


(fyi, about 300 of those Claydol uses were mine.)

The Claydol stat seems pretty accurate to me. I don't recall a Claydol ever giving me a hard time thus far in Gen V. There's just so much Ice/Water/Bug flying around that it overwhelms him imo.

He struggles severely against Rain, and TTar. The only weather starter he can handle is most Ninetales, but honestly like 80% or more of the Pokedex can take down Tales.

I just don't see much use for him in the current metagame.

[yaya0]

It definitely is not built to sweep, but it can be solid in support; e.g. a TrickScarf or similar set to cripple walls.

[Darusare]

Run curse on your gengar and stop bitching allready
thats all
or anything with perish song

[yaya0]

Also, I just noticed that I pushed Victini to OVER 9000!!! usages.

[zyrefredric]

now that the battle log in the smogon server lists the pokemon in each team before the battle, can't we just that data for the usage?

[GtM]

Originally Posted by Fat Raikaria

*Sigh*

And thus a pokemon goes up to OU purely because it checks Rain.

Even though if they carry HP Grass or Ferrothorn, Gastrodon becomes either dead or lets free hazards up.

And Gastrodon fails against any other type of team.

Meanwhile, Porygon2 failed to do this when he checked Gyarados, Heatran, Salamence, Vaporeon and Jolteon with the same moveset! One of which ended up an Uber...

See parralells?

False. I've used Gastrodon in over a hundred matches and can confirm he's actually pretty useful elsewhere. Most Thundurus won't even attempt to beat him whereas they can just wear down Swampert, whilst Choiced Rotom-W is completely screwed if it DOESN'T pick Hidden Power Grass. It should be pretty obvious if the opponent's going to use it, and then you can switch into Skarmory of all things! If anything tries to run a Grass move to deal with Gastrodon, it's significantly easier for the rest of the team to deal with and much less of a threat.

In addition, Since Ferrothorn won't try to KO Gastrodon (its too obvious :P) and since Gastrodon outspeeds, getting a 3HKO with a Storm Drain'd Earth Power and a layer of Spikes is possible and something I constantly abuse. Storm Drain is not only helpful against Rain but also against powerful Water type threats outside of Rain. Admittedly Rain makes its immunity more desired, but it would still have plenty of utility of Rain was banned.

To anyone stating that Gastrodon isn't useful, you're playing him too defensively. I've been using the 124 HP / 252 SpA / 132 SpD Modest spread and it has pretty damn good offensive presence with or without a Storm Drain boost. Meanwhile, it still survives Thundurus's +2 LO Focus Blast or +0 LO Grass Knot. I haven't really missed the extra bulk of the Calm spread, and personally I think it might be worth making the above spread the primary option on the analysis.

[Antar*]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

I think using full-team method may be more accurate.

The problem with using the full-team method is that you end up throwing out A LOT of data (almost half of all teams).

Originally Posted by Fat zyrefredric

now that the battle log in the smogon server lists the pokemon in each team before the battle, can't we just that data for the usage?

Battle logs *still* don't do this (the 1.0.30 version implements it on the client-side only, but in any case, Smogon is still running 1.0.23). Innocent Criminal made a patch that generates separate files that basically just list the full teams (with moves, EV spreads, etc.), but it hasn't been implemented, last I heard.

My methods were really designed as a temporary fix, to be used until Innocent Criminal's patch (or the original stats plugin) were up-and-running. I have a proposal for what we should do if we ever need to use the battle logs permanently, but I don't see any reason we should have to.