Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

***Oglemi**** · Oct 5th, 2011, 11:56:17 PM

Hey all, with the latest usage statistics we are finally able to create the bottom-most tier, NeverUsed! Here the worst of the worst duke it out to be top dog. Will NU be the only non-weather centric metagame? Which Pokemon will be deemed too powerful? How big of an influence is Eviolite going to have on the metagame? All cool stuff to figure out in this new exciting territory!

Thanks to Antar and yours truly, the BW Dex has been updated with the full list of NU Pokemon.

NU will stay static short of usage stat changes for quite a while though, so have fun with whatever may be broken in the tier for some time!

The Smogon PO Server will be updated with the new tier in due time.

So here is tentatively what is not allowed in NU. Everything not listed here is up for grabs.

Code:

Uber:

Mewtwo
Lugia
Ho-Oh
Blaziken
Kyogre
Groudon
Rayquaza
Deoxys
Garchomp
Dialga
Palkia
Giratina
Manaphy
Darkrai
Arceus
Deoxys-A
Shaymin-S
Giratina-O
Excadrill
Thundurus
Reshiram
Zekrom

OU:

Venusaur
Ninetales
Tentacruel
Cloyster
Gengar
Starmie
Gyarados
Vaporeon
Dragonite
Politoed
Espeon 
Forretress
Scizor
Skarmory
Blissey
Tyranitar
Celebi 
Swampert
Breloom
Salamence
Metagross
Latias
Latios
Jirachi
Infernape
Gastrodon 
Bronzong
Lucario
Toxicroak
Magnezone
Gliscor
Heatran
Rotom-W
Deoxys-S
Conkeldurr
Scrafty
Reuniclus
Jellicent
Ferrothorn
Haxorus
Mienshao
Hydreigon
Volcarona
Terrakion
Virizion
Landorus

BL:

Wobbuffet
Staraptor
Kyurem

UU:

Blastoise 
Nidoqueen
Nidoking
Arcanine
Machamp 
Slowbro
Chansey
Jolteon
Aerodactyl
Snorlax
Zapdos
Mew
Crobat
Xatu
Azumarill
Umbreon 
Heracross
Houndoom
Kingdra
Donphan
Porygon2 
Hitmontop
Raikou
Suicune
Flygon
Milotic
Dusclops
Registeel
Empoleon
Roserade
Ambipom
Mismagius
Spiritomb
Hippopotas
Hippowdon 
Abomasnow
Weavile
Rhyperior 
Togekiss
Mamoswine
Froslass
Azelf
Cresselia
Shaymin
Rotom-H
Deoxys-D
Victini
Stoutland 
Whimsicott 
Darmanitan 
Sigilyph
Zoroark
Escavalier
Chandelure 
Golurk 
Bisharp
Cobalion
Tornadus 

BL2:
Alakazam
Venomoth
Sableye
Yanmega

RU:

Charizard 
Sandslash
Clefable
Primeape
Victreebel 
Hitmonlee
Hitmonchan
Scyther
Omastar
Kabutops
Moltres
Typhlosion
Feraligatr
Gligar
Steelix
Qwilfish
Entei
Sceptile
Ludicolo
Hariyama
Aggron
Medicham
Manectric
Sharpedo
Crawdaunt
Claydol
Honchkrow
Munchlax
Drapion
Tangrowth
Electivire
Porygon-Z
Gallade
Dusknoir
Rotom
Uxie
Rotom-C
Lilligant
Krookodile
Crustle
Cofagrigus
Archeops
Sawsbuck 
Galvantula
Ferroseed
Accelgor
Bouffalant
Mandibuzz
Durant

Fire Blast · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:02:16 AM

I think you mean Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

Seems like an interesting mteagame to play! I've been hoping to use some of those pokemon successfully (Emboar)

tomtom5858 · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:06:28 AM

HAHA OGLEMI CAN'T STICKY THINGS HERE. Anyways, this looks pretty badass. Thanks!

Tyranitarphantom · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:09:21 AM

inb4 "Gorebyss will rape everything"

Anyways, a bunch of interesting things down here, including Gorebyss, Eelektross, Gardevoir, Torterra, Masquerain/Mothim/Butterfree, and Rotom-F/Rotom-S

Also heres hoping that Simisage/Simisear/Simipour will be viable down here. Gothitelle too, I'd love for her to finally see use

Sunbeam · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:11:38 AM

YES! Finally BW NU =D. Can't wait to play this when the server gets updated.

DTC · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:20:58 AM

This looks really cool. :)

Sub Emboar with Sub / Fire Blast / Hammer Arm / Wild Charge will probably be really good as it can break through 4 of some of the biggest defensive threats in the tier (Tangela, Miltank, Audino and Slowking) while setting up a sub on 2 of them.

Some big threats I see in this new meta are: Tangela, Miltank, Audino, Slowking, Mespirit, Tauros, Bravairy, Sawk, Lickilicky, Swellow, Magmortar and Scolipede.

Will be quite interesting, I wonder how this tier will go. I notice there is a severe lack of spinners in this tier and many of them face some pretty big flaws. (Lack of recovery and weak to SR will be the biggest problems.)

V0x · Oct 6th, 2011, 1:51:19 AM

Zwelious looks really good, especially since the Steel-types with high defense are 4x weak to Ground AND Fighting so partners will be of no shortage. Maybe 'Ton and Marowak and even Trick Room support ;) ? Although Eviolite Tangela will have pretty high defense o break through....and there's that Hustle 80% accuracy thing too

Also, I find it odd Gorebyss is down here if people were complaining about it upstairs. Whatever ~

NoJohns · Oct 6th, 2011, 2:01:33 AM

The best late game sweeper in the game is NU (again).

Time to prove yourself, Linoone. Now where did my salac berry run off to...

locoghoul · Oct 6th, 2011, 2:02:13 AM

Seems like a TR tier imo. Banette (set up), Rampardos, Ursaring, Marowak, Wailord, Emboar just to name a few.

WinstonShnozwick · Oct 6th, 2011, 2:22:06 AM

Wow, UU, RU, and now NU are my landscape to paint a bloody picture with Exeggutor. Muwahahahaha

GDK · Oct 6th, 2011, 2:43:24 AM

Wow there are not a lot of spinners down there.

SR will bring rape and destruction.

2sly4u · Oct 6th, 2011, 3:45:25 AM

Not too many Steel/Ghosts. Tauros could be pretty damn good down here.

Phi · Oct 6th, 2011, 3:56:52 AM

The list of spinners is pretty short and hilarious and with all the SR weak pokemon stuffed down there I'm wondering how people will try to make them work out. If the strategy dex is right, NU's selection of Rapid Spinners includes among its non-SR weak members Spinda and Eviolite Wartortle, and otherwise has Armaldo, Cryogonal and Delibird. On the other hand Probopass and Bastiodon are kinda crappy but sturdy basically guarantees they'll at least get stealth rock up if that's what you want them to do. Notably, though, most stuff that gets Stealth Rock doesn't have much long term offense potential, especially considering the explosion nerf. Golem probably looks like it has the most potential there. Wartortle will probably end up as the dominant spinner though, since it isn't weak to Stealth Rock and can kill has STAB super effective water attacks to bring down any hazards layers.
NU is going to be an interesting tier though. It's a combination of pokemon with good typings but bad stats, Pokemon with hilariously bad typings but a couple of decent stats, and most of generation one (which I guess was both :\). I'd love if the ridiculous disparities between the defensive and offensive stats in most pokemon cause shit like shuckle to get some use, though i'm guessing that at the end of the day there will be few surprises and most of the top threats will be top threats from past generations without the power creep shit that walls or sweeps them in higher tiers, like Tauros.

LeviLamprey · Oct 6th, 2011, 4:01:41 AM

:O
LUVDISC
I AM SURPRISED.
I'm going to use it for team support. :>
I don't know, RU is only appealing because LILLIGANT.
But looking over this, I can see a fair few mons wreaking havoc in NU.
Linoone does well enough in RU...
Regice will be fun, too.
SO MANY CHOICES!
And SHelgon, and...and...
I think this is something better tested than hypothesised about.
*off he goes*

skitz0phrenic · Oct 6th, 2011, 5:00:50 AM

Volbeat will be able to pass +3's down here with ease.

Also Prankster Sableye and Murkrow are down here too for the time being.

Musharna is down here...whaaaat.

This tier has all the bulk that can't hang with Yanmega in RU.

Golem/Gigalith/Bastiodon to be the premiere SR users.

Scolipede/Cacturne/Garbodor/Glalie seem to be some of the best (decent) Spikes users.

WhiteyMcFly · Oct 6th, 2011, 11:29:16 AM

Relicanth and Carracosta are going to be a real force to be reckoned with in NU. Dual STABs from it are completely unresisted in the tier. With the former being the one that can carry Stealth Rock and a stronger STAB move, and the latter carrying Shell Smash, it's a real tossup between the two. They both will end up causing some huge damage.

I'm gonna go with Relicanth on this one simply for the SR and the power of its rock-type STAB.

Fangren · Oct 6th, 2011, 12:22:39 PM

Ooh, I'm so happy that NU is finally getting started, and with so many cool pokemon too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat WhiteyMcFly

Relicanth and Carracosta are going to be a real force to be reckoned with in NU. Dual STABs from it are completely unresisted in the tier. With the former being the one that can carry Stealth Rock and a stronger STAB move, and the latter carrying Shell Smash, it's a real tossup between the two. They both will end up causing some huge damage.

I'm gonna go with Relicanth on this one simply for the SR and the power of its rock-type STAB.

Quagsire says hello, especially with Curse and Recover alongside Water Absorb (or Unaware) and STAB EQ.

EDIT: Also, I don't think we can quite discount Cryogonal as a spinner. It may be SR weak, but it's immune to spikes/toxic spikes and has Recover.

***Antar**** · Oct 6th, 2011, 5:31:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Fangren

Quagsire says hello

The hilarious thing about Quagsire is that its OU usage is higher than its UU and RU usage. Quagsire has 5x the OU usage of Yanmega.

SuperPascal · Oct 6th, 2011, 6:37:28 PM

I think these pokémon will get the most usage:
Mesprit and Regirock as stealth rock users as well as walls
Cryogonal as a spinner
Rotom-s as a paraflincher
Sableye as an annoying wall
Klinklang as a good set-up sweeper and one of the only steel type (probably one of the best poke in the tier)
Serperior and jumpluff as speedy subseeders
Emboar as a powerful wallbreaker or sweeper with flame charge
Sawk as a cool fighting type with sturdy
Swellow as a dangerous guts sweeper
Zweilious as a eviolite powerhouse
shelgon as a good eviolite wall
and Eelektross as a cool electric type with no weakness :)

Did I miss any?

DTC · Oct 6th, 2011, 6:45:29 PM

Yes you did.

Miltank, Tangela and Slowking will all wreck the tier. It's incredibly hard to break through them. (Especially Slowking)

Klinklang, Shelgon, Zweilous, Serperior and Jumpluff won't be that good. Klinklang is good if he manages to set up but he's walled by a lot, Shelgon will probably be okay, Zweilous is extremely slow but can wreck if he manages to get a hit in, and Serperior+Jumpluff are literally just trolls that don't have much use in the tier other then subseeding, and that's just an annoying strategy. Eel also has trouble against prepared teams, it'll probably be really good at the beginning though.

Also, Rotom-S would work better as a scarfer, para-flinching isn't very reliable. Mespirit would probably be used for sub cm sweeping, although there's also Dusion for that who will probably wreck in the tier too if you be careful of Sableye.

sax king · Oct 6th, 2011, 6:51:08 PM

This is such a stallish tier. Everything has fairly low speed as well as pretty poor attack (as compared to higher tiers), and not to mention the fact that each team will probably run at least three eviolite mons.

**Molk** · Oct 6th, 2011, 6:52:13 PM

just one thing to say, rotom-s is nu and normal rotom is ru. that.......is..........hilarious.

TropiOUs · Oct 6th, 2011, 6:53:46 PM

CTRL+F'd for Snover,no results before this post.
Rotom-F is going to be really fun to use.

Amarillo · Oct 6th, 2011, 7:11:02 PM

Look out for Stallrein + Tspikes...

Also, the lack of Steel-types are really disturbing to say the least--I'm thinking stall will be viable thanks to Eviolite users + Quagsire, but the lack of good rapid spinner and steel types hurts Stall as well. I'm seeing Cryo as a crucial part of NU stall for its ability to wall and haze the 'broken' Gorebyss, as well as spin and recover. TBH, Cryogonal is really good. Look no further than WhiteQueen's UU team, and countless other RU teams that succeeded with Cryogonal as its spinner.

Hail's down here too, so expect that to be a dominant playstyle until Hail gets kicked out. I'm pretty sure hail is so dominating to the point that it wouldn't be too surprising to get it quickbanned. Thank god we finally got to stop the Swift Swimmers from falling all the way down to NU, but because of that, all Sun / Rain abusers are stuck in RU. That means that hail will have monopoly on all weather forms because nobody will bother running weather-changing moves.

DTC · Oct 6th, 2011, 7:22:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat MoltenKyurem

just one thing to say, rotom-s is nu and normal rotom is ru. that.......is..........hilarious.

That's not hilarious. Rotom-S doesn't have as good speed as Rotom. Rotom also has a better typing and had a good niche in RU being able to block the 2 most common spinners in RU (Blastoise and Claydol) and be able to easily beat them. It's typing also helped it check a few other notable threats.

And @Amarillo, I don't think hail will be that bad. Rotom-F, however, makes hail teams quite a lot more powerful with it being able to check many dangerous threats to hail teams and being a good pokemon in hail in general.

Oct 6th, 2011, 12:02:16 AM	#2
Fire Blast Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,067 Washington	I think you mean Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread Seems like an interesting mteagame to play! I've been hoping to use some of those pokemon successfully (Emboar) __________________ Interested in the the Pokemon Value System? Where every pokemon is viable! CAP ASB Team

Oct 6th, 2011, 12:06:28 AM	#3
tomtom5858 Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 426 Berries that turn your mouth blue by the swiftly flowing river	HAHA OGLEMI CAN'T STICKY THINGS HERE. Anyways, this looks pretty badass. Thanks! __________________ † I could give a damn what your religion is † Last edited by NixHex; Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:42:23 PM. Reason: yes but i can

Oct 6th, 2011, 12:09:21 AM	#4
Tyranitarphantom Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 358 Kentucky	inb4 "Gorebyss will rape everything" Anyways, a bunch of interesting things down here, including Gorebyss, Eelektross, Gardevoir, Torterra, Masquerain/Mothim/Butterfree, and Rotom-F/Rotom-S Also heres hoping that Simisage/Simisear/Simipour will be viable down here. Gothitelle too, I'd love for her to finally see use __________________ My Scramble Challanges, or more importantly, My Pokemon Blue Scramble Challange! Check out Well Seasoned Gaming! Current LPs: Metroid Prime, Pokemon Sapphire, and Illusions of Gaia My main alt on Showdown is Switcheroo When playing on Wifi, I use legal hacks

Oct 6th, 2011, 12:20:58 AM	#6
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	This looks really cool. :) Sub Emboar with Sub / Fire Blast / Hammer Arm / Wild Charge will probably be really good as it can break through 4 of some of the biggest defensive threats in the tier (Tangela, Miltank, Audino and Slowking) while setting up a sub on 2 of them. Some big threats I see in this new meta are: Tangela, Miltank, Audino, Slowking, Mespirit, Tauros, Bravairy, Sawk, Lickilicky, Swellow, Magmortar and Scolipede. Will be quite interesting, I wonder how this tier will go. I notice there is a severe lack of spinners in this tier and many of them face some pretty big flaws. (Lack of recovery and weak to SR will be the biggest problems.) __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Oct 6th, 2011, 1:51:19 AM	#7
V0x I love mafe Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,374	Zwelious looks really good, especially since the Steel-types with high defense are 4x weak to Ground AND Fighting so partners will be of no shortage. Maybe 'Ton and Marowak and even Trick Room support ;) ? Although Eviolite Tangela will have pretty high defense o break through....and there's that Hustle 80% accuracy thing too Also, I find it odd Gorebyss is down here if people were complaining about it upstairs. Whatever ~ __________________ [21:11] <&Oglemi> opera da best [21:12] <%Birkal> I love opera [21:12] <%Birkal> our college put on cosi last year; it was great [21:12] <%Birkal> OH MY GOODNESS [21:12] <%Birkal> THIS CONVERSATION IS ABOUT WEB BROWSERS [21:12] <%Birkal> =X

Oct 6th, 2011, 12:11:38 AM	#5
Sunbeam Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 89 Hyrule	YES! Finally BW NU =D. Can't wait to play this when the server gets updated.

Oct 6th, 2011, 2:01:33 AM	#8
NoJohns Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 98	The best late game sweeper in the game is NU (again). Time to prove yourself, Linoone. Now where did my salac berry run off to...

Oct 6th, 2011, 2:02:13 AM	#9
locoghoul Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 676 Charlotte	Seems like a TR tier imo. Banette (set up), Rampardos, Ursaring, Marowak, Wailord, Emboar just to name a few. __________________ Ubers RMT Corona Blast! Girotina's Revenge Here comes the Sun

Oct 6th, 2011, 2:22:06 AM	#10
WinstonShnozwick Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 485	Wow, UU, RU, and now NU are my landscape to paint a bloody picture with Exeggutor. Muwahahahaha __________________ Steel Pokemon are boss. Metagross is the real steel. Annoyance List; Gliscor, Jirachi, Politoed Threat List; Magnezone, Volcarona, Terrakion, Landorus Watch List; Dragonite, Hydreigon

Oct 6th, 2011, 2:43:24 AM	#11
GDK Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 100	Wow there are not a lot of spinners down there. SR will bring rape and destruction.

Oct 6th, 2011, 3:45:25 AM	#12
2sly4u Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 535 I'm comfy and easy to wear.	Not too many Steel/Ghosts. Tauros could be pretty damn good down here.

Oct 6th, 2011, 3:56:52 AM	#13
Phi Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 152	The list of spinners is pretty short and hilarious and with all the SR weak pokemon stuffed down there I'm wondering how people will try to make them work out. If the strategy dex is right, NU's selection of Rapid Spinners includes among its non-SR weak members Spinda and Eviolite Wartortle, and otherwise has Armaldo, Cryogonal and Delibird. On the other hand Probopass and Bastiodon are kinda crappy but sturdy basically guarantees they'll at least get stealth rock up if that's what you want them to do. Notably, though, most stuff that gets Stealth Rock doesn't have much long term offense potential, especially considering the explosion nerf. Golem probably looks like it has the most potential there. Wartortle will probably end up as the dominant spinner though, since it isn't weak to Stealth Rock and can kill has STAB super effective water attacks to bring down any hazards layers. NU is going to be an interesting tier though. It's a combination of pokemon with good typings but bad stats, Pokemon with hilariously bad typings but a couple of decent stats, and most of generation one (which I guess was both :\). I'd love if the ridiculous disparities between the defensive and offensive stats in most pokemon cause shit like shuckle to get some use, though i'm guessing that at the end of the day there will be few surprises and most of the top threats will be top threats from past generations without the power creep shit that walls or sweeps them in higher tiers, like Tauros. __________________ Read the print in the mint.

Oct 6th, 2011, 4:01:41 AM	#14
LeviLamprey Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,205	:O LUVDISC I AM SURPRISED. I'm going to use it for team support. :> I don't know, RU is only appealing because LILLIGANT. But looking over this, I can see a fair few mons wreaking havoc in NU. Linoone does well enough in RU... Regice will be fun, too. SO MANY CHOICES! And SHelgon, and...and... I think this is something better tested than hypothesised about. off he goes __________________ CAP ASB Shenanigans Pikurei Forums (12:01:01) EmeraldOx: we can be clumsybuddies ;w;

Oct 6th, 2011, 5:00:50 AM	#15
skitz0phrenic Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 290	Volbeat will be able to pass +3's down here with ease. Also Prankster Sableye and Murkrow are down here too for the time being. Musharna is down here...whaaaat. This tier has all the bulk that can't hang with Yanmega in RU. Golem/Gigalith/Bastiodon to be the premiere SR users. Scolipede/Cacturne/Garbodor/Glalie seem to be some of the best (decent) Spikes users. Last edited by skitz0phrenic; Oct 6th, 2011 at 5:21:13 AM.

Oct 6th, 2011, 11:29:16 AM	#16
WhiteyMcFly Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 19	Relicanth and Carracosta are going to be a real force to be reckoned with in NU. Dual STABs from it are completely unresisted in the tier. With the former being the one that can carry Stealth Rock and a stronger STAB move, and the latter carrying Shell Smash, it's a real tossup between the two. They both will end up causing some huge damage. I'm gonna go with Relicanth on this one simply for the SR and the power of its rock-type STAB.

Oct 6th, 2011, 6:37:28 PM	#19
SuperPascal Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 51 Canada	I think these pokémon will get the most usage: Mesprit and Regirock as stealth rock users as well as walls Cryogonal as a spinner Rotom-s as a paraflincher Sableye as an annoying wall Klinklang as a good set-up sweeper and one of the only steel type (probably one of the best poke in the tier) Serperior and jumpluff as speedy subseeders Emboar as a powerful wallbreaker or sweeper with flame charge Sawk as a cool fighting type with sturdy Swellow as a dangerous guts sweeper Zweilious as a eviolite powerhouse shelgon as a good eviolite wall and Eelektross as a cool electric type with no weakness :) Did I miss any? __________________ B/W Uber peak: #1 RMT:http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3451138 B/W RU peak: #1 RMT:http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453610 B/W NU peak: #1 http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3456733 G/S/C UU Peak: #1

Oct 6th, 2011, 6:45:29 PM	#20
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Yes you did. Miltank, Tangela and Slowking will all wreck the tier. It's incredibly hard to break through them. (Especially Slowking) Klinklang, Shelgon, Zweilous, Serperior and Jumpluff won't be that good. Klinklang is good if he manages to set up but he's walled by a lot, Shelgon will probably be okay, Zweilous is extremely slow but can wreck if he manages to get a hit in, and Serperior+Jumpluff are literally just trolls that don't have much use in the tier other then subseeding, and that's just an annoying strategy. Eel also has trouble against prepared teams, it'll probably be really good at the beginning though. Also, Rotom-S would work better as a scarfer, para-flinching isn't very reliable. Mespirit would probably be used for sub cm sweeping, although there's also Dusion for that who will probably wreck in the tier too if you be careful of Sableye. __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Oct 6th, 2011, 6:51:08 PM	#21
sax king Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 767 I'm not sick, but I'm not well	This is such a stallish tier. Everything has fairly low speed as well as pretty poor attack (as compared to higher tiers), and not to mention the fact that each team will probably run at least three eviolite mons. __________________ The 90's were awesome

Oct 6th, 2011, 6:52:13 PM	#22
Molk Recipe for disaster Moderator Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,239 Long Island	just one thing to say, rotom-s is nu and normal rotom is ru. that.......is..........hilarious. __________________ 16:46 <TLCNU> Esca literally is 2HKO'd by Stoutland Fire Fang 10:33 skylight molk put me in your sig

Oct 6th, 2011, 6:53:46 PM	#23
TropiOUs Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 419 North Korea	CTRL+F'd for Snover,no results before this post. Rotom-F is going to be really fun to use.

Oct 6th, 2011, 7:11:02 PM	#24
Amarillo yellow! Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 713	Look out for Stallrein + Tspikes... Also, the lack of Steel-types are really disturbing to say the least--I'm thinking stall will be viable thanks to Eviolite users + Quagsire, but the lack of good rapid spinner and steel types hurts Stall as well. I'm seeing Cryo as a crucial part of NU stall for its ability to wall and haze the 'broken' Gorebyss, as well as spin and recover. TBH, Cryogonal is really good. Look no further than WhiteQueen's UU team, and countless other RU teams that succeeded with Cryogonal as its spinner. Hail's down here too, so expect that to be a dominant playstyle until Hail gets kicked out. I'm pretty sure hail is so dominating to the point that it wouldn't be too surprising to get it quickbanned. Thank god we finally got to stop the Swift Swimmers from falling all the way down to NU, but because of that, all Sun / Rain abusers are stuck in RU. That means that hail will have monopoly on all weather forms because nobody will bother running weather-changing moves.