Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

[lordkira]

Not sure about a japanese forum but there are quite a lot of Koreans who got some nice winning streaks, such as 300, 400+'s posted on just random sites if ou search on google lol.

[Progeusz]

Ehh... And there I thought I may get near to 100 because it was going well...
75 wins, proof - http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6564/dsc00023.png

Previously, I was trying with MixTar + haxChomp + SpecsLatios but my record was 49 (yeah, just after boss battle there was painful loss at the hand of Excadrill, Dragonite and something else)
After another loss (this trio has tremendous problems with DD, especially Gyara) I got tired of constant subbing in Sandstorm and switched to Staraptor with his ridiculously powerful STAB Choice Band Reckless Brave Bird. haxChomp made no sense without Ttar, I didn't want Sandstorm (and someone slow) on my team, so I decided on Bulky SD Scizor. I chose Latios as third member as he's bulkier and stronger than Starmie (I don't have many competitive ready Pokemon in box).

1. Staraptor @ Choice Band, Reckless, Jolly, 4/252/0/0/0/252
Moves:
~ Brave Bird
~ Close Combat
~ Double-Edge
~ U-Turn
Staraptor wrecks teams. Killing three opponents in row is something common for him. Sometimes, he doesn't even have to care that much about resists, simply 2hkoing foes. Brave Bird 80% of the time, sometimes U-Turn or switch to Scizor (eventually Latios). Legends are no problem. Birds, Dogs, Musketeers, Genies are ohkod by BB/DE, Regis die to Close Combat (ok, Bulky Steel and Rock survive one attack - even worse for them as that means +6 Scizor)

2. Scizor @ Leftovers, Technician, Adamant, 252/40/0/0/212/4
Moves:
~ Bullet Punch
~ Bug Bite
~ Roost
~ Swords Dance
Scizor sets up +6 with ease on anything without Fire move or powerful neutral STAB. He especially likes Ice types which Staraptor and Latios hate. I love mass murdering with 40bp move. Only status that poses threat to him is 5+ turn freeze, rest of them are usually irrelevant (with +6 and priority...)

3. Latios @ Choice Specs, Levitate, Timid, 4/0/0/252/0/252
Moves:
~ Draco Meteor
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Surf
~ Psyshock
Latios - no comment needed, he dies only to hax or random Mirror Coat/Metal Burst. Surf and Psyshock are pretty much useless :(

How I lost
#1 Staraptor Close Combats Raichu, Focus Sash, Static, Discharge, KO
#2 Scizor Bullet Punch, KO, Static
#3 Electivire Protects, Scizor Bullet Punch
#4 Electivire Fire Punch, 1 HP, Scizor Bug Bite, ~2/3
#5 Scizor Bullet Punch, <10%, Electivire Ice Punch, KO
#6 Electivire Protect, Latios Dragon Pulse
#7 Dragon Pulse, KO
#8 Jolteon Swagger, confusion
#9 Jolteon Thunderbolt, confusion
#10 Jolteon Thunderbolt, 8/156, Dragon Pulse, <5%
#11 Jolteon Thunderbolt, Latios fainted

Any changes? There should be some as I didn't put much thought in that team.

[ashez]

quick 4t since u have roost on scizor y not try lum berry instead of leftovers

[Progeusz]

I don't need Lum Berry that much. Bullet Punch (main attack) ignores paralysis; even with burn he has "+3" after 3 SDs (but with burn I have to use Roost quite often), Sleep... most of sleepers use other moves vs Scizor and Psychics/Grass simply die to Bug Bite.
Scizor is really bulky, most of resisted hits deal ~20% which lets it SD up quickly even with paralysis/burn. Sometimes it looks like "switch into Scizor -> SD x2/3 -> Roost -> BP rape" - mainly vs Ice types
To be honest, I lost it to status only once in ~200 battles - 6 turns freeze with crit and SpDef drop (Frosslass).
I was using Iron Plate before but Leftovers proved to be more useful.
Oh, and I don't have Lum Berry xD

[ashez]

i personly think thats a risky way to play status will ruin a streak at some point lol, its why most teams have sub/set up pokes. I would run lum or personally replace roost with sub, added insurence is a must, with a sub up you get free hits, for example u faint a poke and have a +6 scizor behind a sub, it gives you at least 2 safe attacks, while they break/attack your sub, but id always run sub/SD/BP/superpower and enough speed to take out heatran who would murder your scizor if lat/reptor have fainted. Sub would also protect you from freeze hacks, Just my thoughts lol

[Peterko]

Originally Posted by Fat Groombridge

Super Doubles, 168 wins and going
Also - and this is a big one - it means Hydra can outspeed and kill Scarf Pinsir by itself.

Modest 252 spe Hydra = 150 speed + scarf = 225 speed
Jolly 252 spe Pinsir 4 = 150 speed + scarf = 225 speed

They tie, although X-Scissor has a 25% chance to OHKO while Thrower always OHKOs, so your odds of winning the showdown are better.

Originally Posted by Fat lordkira

Not sure about a japanese forum but there are quite a lot of Koreans who got some nice winning streaks, such as 300, 400+'s posted on just random sites if ou search on google lol.

Would you mind posting links of at least few of those "quite a lot 300/400+ records?"

Hmm, I searched for some battle videos on the global terminal, it sucks that they don´t list highest streaks, there´s too much < streak 10 video spam...I mean, seriously? Also I can only search by battle mode and pokémon and it also gives videos with the pokémon on oponents teams ._.

I searched Latios, Politoed, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Whimsicott, Metagross...

Nonetheless, I found these videos:
#567: Politoed, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Toxicroak. Video number: 72-38980-60568
#440: Infernape, Latios, Rotom-W, Metagross. Video number: 26-39851-39453
#273: Garchomp, Aerodactyl, Rotom-W, Metagross. Video number: 37-83435-14838
#223: Politoed, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Scizor. Video number: 90-96665-14226
#216: Politoed, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Toxicroak. Video number: 23-05957-79711
#203: Whimsicott, Terrakion, Thundurus, Landorus. Video number: 89-61513-36741

The second one uses dragon gem draco meteor (losing to kingdra) but still beats my highest record wtf, the third uses sash aero + LO chomp, the last one uses rock gem rock slide. The rain teams are pretty much the same, I think one of the ludicolo uses scald+giga drain.

As for me, other than MetaTorn I´ve bred and tried Volbeat in singles, only like 10 battles alongside heatran and gastrodon. I´ve used Tail Glow, BP, Encore, Bug Buzz, but 3 turn encore only lets me baton pass and set up sub. I´d like Sub on Volbeat but taunt would kill the strategy.

I´ve also tried a TR doubles team. I´m not a TR person, but I wanted to give Duskull a shot. Yeah, Duskull. With Eviolite. The thing almost never dies lol. I used
Hitmontop @ Sash: FO, Mach, Sucker, CC
Duskull @ Eviolite: TR, WoW, Pain Split, Night Shade
Snorlax @ Sitrus: Drum, DE, Seed Bomb, Fire Punch
Amoongus @ Black Sludge: Rage Powder, Spore, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb
and lost at #29 to some bad luck, another test with lead guts Hariyama and a Psych Up Meta instead of Top/Amo ended at like 8 lol...

Oh yeah, tested out quick feet Linoone @ Toxic Orb: Belly Drum, Facade, Shadow Claw, Switcheroo in doubles alongside intimidate Top and lol it either died or managed 1 kill per battle :/ but I only did like 14 battles between 21-35.

[Progeusz]

Replacing Roost with Sub is pointless as most neutral attacks deal 30-40% - breaking sub, but easily healed up with Roost. Even haxChomp has some trouble when Subbing every once in a while, and he has Sand Veil.
Heatran is the only Steel type that this Scizor has problems with (edit: Steelix as well). I can simply switch to Latios if Staraptor haven't killed Heatran already. I considered Superpower but Bug Bite hits stronger most of the time (135 vs 120), trolls ChestoRestos & Subbers and has no side effect.

I think Scizor is the most solid member of this team, he's doing what he should and never fails at that. Maybe use Ttar or Gastrodon to laugh at Electric and Fire?

[Groombridge]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Modest 252 spe Hydra = 150 speed + scarf = 225 speed
Jolly 252 spe Pinsir 4 = 150 speed + scarf = 225 speed

They tie, although X-Scissor has a 25% chance to OHKO while Thrower always OHKOs, so your odds of winning the showdown are better.

Whoa, looks like I miscalculated - I thought Hydra beat it by a point. Still, the odds are still in my favour at least - and Ape can always use Fake Out to secure the kill. I'm extremely reluctant to go Timid for this thing, though, as I notice the slight lack of Hydra's hitting power with no boosting item: it doesn't OHKO Dragonite or Latios, for instance. But I do love the speed.

Nice work having a go with a TR team. Why didn't you use Dusclops instead of Duskull? There were no EQ users on your team, so Levitate wasn't strictly necessary. (Unless you didn't want to train up a Duskull, which I understand)

[ashez]

i also like to see the links if possible.

Peterko i also been testing a similar set but with twave instead of attackin move, also with heatran but with latios, wasnt as amazing as hoped lol.

Yh roost gives you extra healing but sub protects you from status and critical hits which is needed, a untimely crit is enough to end a . streak where a sub would save you, most people here would class sub as best move in the tower/subway.

[Taylor]

I think it's best if I team up with someone who is willing to play Super Multi Train because I really am desperate to get this trophy and it has proven to be a real challenge to earn it by myself. Props to TR on such a streak; I've tried his team and didn't have as much success.

If anyone is willing to spare some time later on tonight, please contact me lol.

I would like to plow my way through singles with Typhlosion, Ninetails and Blaziken and see how far I can get.

[Progeusz]

Status is no problem for this Scizor* while untimely crit means that I have to Roost again 2-3 times and nothing more. There aren't many attacks capable of dealing 50% (100% with crit) to Bulky Scizor - some boosted STABs and that's it? If they do more, they're most likely Fire type. Actually, the only problematic not-Fire move is Waterfall with its flinch rate - it's like 60% to me...

*Out of sleepers, only Ninetales, Poliwrath 2, Politoed 4, Breloom 3 are capable of killing Scizor. Both Staraptor and Latios murder them.
Freeze is rare and needs to last 5+ turns to pose a danger.
Out of not-Fire WoWers, only Spiritomb 2 and Gengar 2 are capable of killing Scizor. Fire types kill Scizor without the need for status.
Without Roost, this Scizor won't be able to get to +6 - he still won't have any hope of beating Fire types, even with Sub up. When I see Fire move user I simply switch or sacrifice.


I'd like to see links with 300+ streaks as well, they might use some awesome strategies.

[Tombstoner]

Oh hey, Jumpman broke the record again! Nice! :D
Trying the team right now; probably won't stay with it past 70 because it's kinda his team and as some have said it's more the team than the playing.
I'm just wondering if the better option for Dragonite the turn after Sub is DD or Roost because of Multiscale. Which is it?

[Peterko]

I knew that getting a female Sableye in the Dream World today was a bad omen. There had to be some kind of compensatory justice. So, later today, I had battles with 5 x Tornadus fully para in a row or a double burning Heat Wave from Volcarona and a myriad of CHs happening almost every turn.

Oh, I´m using MetaTorn, but this time, Meta holds a Choice Band, its LO went to Hydra and I use Sash Medicham instead of Hitmontop. The team feels super awesome when you have played so many Subway battles, I know if a team is amazing (200+ worthy) or good (100+) or not-so-good-but-you-still-want-to-get-a-higher-streak-than-possible. With a first cathegory team, losing „early“ hurts. Unfortunately, I lost just a few battles before beating the first 137 MetaTorn streak despite this version of the team generally having an easier time and I feel this is the (much) better team. SashCham is amazing, so is CBMeta (no more surviving Bullet Punches, Mr. Aero).

#133 vs Janitor Oscar: Typhlosion, Vaporeon, Suicune, Bronzong
1. Switch out Meta, Hydra in, Vappy Helping Hand, Typhlo Eruption, Tornadus fainted, Hydra 89/167.
- my Cham in
2. Cham Fake Out Typhlo, Vappy QC (#1) Shadow Ball, Cham 6/136, Hydra Dragon Pulse, Typhlo fainted
- foe Suicune
3. Vappy QC (#2) Shadow Ball, Cham fainted, Suicune Surf, Hydra Dragon Pulse, 60% to Cune, 27/167 after LO.
- my Meta in
4. Hydra Protect, Suicune Surf, Meta 104/155, Meta Quake, CH on Cune, Cune fainted, Vappy Surf, Meta 29/155.
- foe Zong
5. Vappy QC (#3) Shadow Ball, Meta fainted, Hydra Dragon Pulse, Vappy 5% left, Zong Light Screen.
6. Vappy QC (#4) Shadow Ball, Hydra fainted.

Before turn 1 I had two options, Acrobatics (1) and Tailwind (2). I´ve faced scarf Typhlo twice or three times, it CH OHKOd Tornadus once (didn´t know its set) and died the other times to Acrobatics. My mistake was not checking Vaporeon´s moveset, a huge mistake in hindsight, or else I would´ve used Tailwind for sure. That stupid Vaporeon had to QC hax me though...

Hydra Dragon Pulse does 94-112 = 53-64% dmg to Suicune
Meta Quake does 65-77 = 37-44% dmg to Suicune
The CH maybe wasn´t needed and the KO depended on damage range.

Hydra Dragon Pulse does 111-132 = 54-64% dmg to Vappy
Meta Quake does 78-92 = 38-45% dmg to Vappy
Here, average damage kills Vappy, which I apparently didn´t get turns 4-5 lol.

So, had I Tailwinded turn 1, I would bring in Meta for the fallen Tornadus and Quake OHKO Typhlo + Dragon Pulse Vaporeon getting to 3-2 and being faster, then get rid of Cune without taking a hit from it and eventually win.

[Cradily]

Originally Posted by Fat Peterko

Before turn 1 I had two options, Acrobatics (1) and Tailwind (2). I´ve faced scarf Typhlo twice or three times, it CH OHKOd Tornadus once (didn´t know its set) and died the other times to Acrobatics. My mistake was not checking Vaporeon´s moveset, a huge mistake in hindsight, or else I would´ve used Tailwind for sure. That stupid Vaporeon had to QC hax me though...

Lawlz, that's like my rule number one, always check the freaking water type's move sets. Chances are you'll find out they will use a status move when your expecting a surf. Although, its hard to play the "pin the moveset on the eeveelution" due to the many times you can't use process of elimination. Unless its after turn one and you see one if its moves...

[Zari]

whew, first time posting in this thread, but whatever. I've been having some success with a team on super doubles, and I thought I'd share it so others could try it if they wanted + get some feedback on it. Anyways, on with the team:



Hitmontop @ Sitrus berry | Intimidate
Adamant Nature
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EVs: 220 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Def
Lv50 Stats: 153 / 161 / 120 / 49 / 130 / 90
~Fake Out
~Mach Punch
~Rock Slide
~Close Combat (/Wide Guard?)



Volcarona @ Focus Sash | Flame Body
Timid Nature
IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 30 / 30 / 31
EVs: 4 HP / 44 Def / 248 SpA / 216 Spe
Lv50 Stats: 161 / x / 91 / 186 / 125 / 161
~Quiver Dance
~Heat Wave
~Bug Buzz
~Hidden Power Ground 70


Latios @ LO | Levitate
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 / 22 / 30 / 30 / 30 / 31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Lv50 Stats: 155 / 95 / 100 / 181 / 130 / 178
~Dragon Pulse
~Psyshock
~Thunderbolt
~Surf



Rotom-W @ Leftovers | Levitate
Modest Nature
IVs: 31 / 2 / 31 / 30 / 31 / 31
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 248 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Lv50 Stats: 156 / 63 / 128 / 171 / 128 / 107
~Substitute
~Thunderbolt
~Hydro Pump
~Hidden Power Grass 70

-----
It's a simple strategy, really; Top FO's and intimidates the opposition while volca either QD's or attacks, depending on who's out on the opposite side of the field. Sitrus berry on Top usually guarantees it can take at least two hits, perhaps more. Mach punch is standard priority, and close combat is really only there for ttar, who otherwise can give me a bit of trouble depending on who the second opponent is. Rock slide is so I can hit the dragon/flying crew for a least some SE damage with the first two mons out.

Volcarona is also standard fare, QD is obvious to outspeed more stuff; the EVs listed give 161 speed at Lv50, enough to outspeed everything but the two fastest mons in the subway (both of which are scarved) after one QD; hidden power ground gives me something to hit fire types, though sometimes I find myself wishing it had hp rock. Heat wave hits both opponents (obviously) and serves as my primary stab, while bug buzz is secondary stab and hits the psychic types that 'top dislikes SE.

Latios serves as my fast power-killer, hitting many different things SE, and ohkoing a bunch of stuff. I run surf > ice beam because of the spread power + the fact that, even with LO surf doesn't do enough to break Rotom's Sub. Dpulse, psyshock, and tbolt are the bread and butter of latios' sets anyways.

Finally, Rotom-W. Rotom has been a very good blessing for this team, as the flying + water + extra fire resist is golden. Seriously, more people need to use this dude. Anyways, tbolt and hpump are obligatory stab moves that dish out a lot of damage, and hidden power grass deals with the water/grounds who like to give me trouble otherwise. Substitute is so I can block status and hide from ohko moves for a turn.

----

EDIT: Just lost the streak at 103

Will edit in proof in about an hour

Any and all comments/critiques are welcome!

[atsync]

Ok so I just got a streak of 87 in super singles with my Cloyster team. The way I lost was stupid and embarassing (more on that below).

Team

Cloyster @ focus sash
Naughty
ivs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
evs: 0/252/0/12/0/244
stats: 125/161/200/107/58/121
Skill Link

Icicle Spear
Rock Blast
Surf
Shell Smash

Garchomp @ lum berry
Jolly
ivs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
evs: 0/252/0/0/4/252
stats: 183/182/115/90/106/169
Sand Veil

Earthquake
Substitute
Dragon Claw
Swords Dance

Ferrothorn @ leftovers
Sassy
iv: 31/31/31/x/31/0
evs: 252/0/68/0/188/0
stats: 181/114/160/72/176/22
Iron Barbs

Gyro Ball
Curse
Leech Seed
Substitute

Cloyster is pretty cool. It's a bit like Scarf Darmanitan in that it can sweep many teams on its own really quickly. As you can see mine is mixed. Not sure whether it's actually better than pure physical but Surf having 100 accuracy is a nice bonus, and it can deal with defensively biased pokemon that shrug off my other moves (e.g. Cobalion 4). The evs are set to ensure I outspeed Scarf Terrakion after 1 smash (sadly I'm still outsped by Scarf Entei no matter how much speed I put in).

I've found the best pokemon to set up on are opposing set up pokemon, particularly Amnesia, Stockpile and Calm Mind. Those pokemon are stupid and think they can beat me if they can set up alongside me. Instead, I maximise my offences and speed, plus I still have my Focus Sash intact. I can't lose unless the opponent just happens to have two priority users in tow (but even then my other team members can finish up).

Garchomp serves as my status absorber. It may seem unorthodox, but with Lum Berry, Substitute, Thunder Wave immunity and its great speed stat, it can turn Will-O-Wisp spammers into set up bait. It also has great initial power in Earthquake if it needs to attack right away. Plus, Garchomp can abuse the Sandstorm that Cloyster hates. The evs maximise attack and speed. The remaining is put into Sp. Def rather than HP to ensure I can make 4 substitutes at full health rather than three. Hasn't mattered yet but you never know.

Ferrothorn can deal with Water and Steel types nicely which is important because Cloyster can't set up well against them at all. It also deals with Trick Room. It's the standard set so it brings the usual benefits to the team. The only downside is the fighting weakness, but it isn't that big of a deal usually (though I did have one annoying battle where the opponent lead with Fake Out Mienshao with Mach Punch Conkeldurr as back up). The evs focus on Sp. Def, but some Def investment is absolutely necessary because Ferrothorn struggles to keep its Substitute up against strong Earthquakes and X-Scissors without Def investment if it has no Curse boosts.

Certain steels can be troublesome to this team, especially Trick Room Bronzong (if Ferrothorn has died). It really all depends on the situation though.

How I Lost:

I lost mainly because I didn't check the first pokemon's moveset carefully enough, along with a retarded accidental misclick (in that I meant to click one move but missed and hit the other).

Battle 88 vs. Pilot Chand

I send out Cloyster, Chand sends out Honchkrow
I Shell Smash, Honchkrow Thunderwaves
Honchkrow Drill Pecks (Cloyster at 38 HP, Life Orb recoil), Cloyster fully paralysed
Honchkrow Sucker Punches, Cloyster dead

I send in Garchomp
I Substitute (Garchomp at 138 HP), Honchkrow Drill Pecks (sub broken, Life Orb recoil)
I Dragon Claw (Honchkrow at 20%), Honchkrow Drill Pecks (Garchomp at 29 HP, Life Orb recoil)
I Substitute (lol WTF), Honchkrow Night Slashs, Garchomp dead, Honchkrow dies to recoil

I send out Ferrothorn, Chand sends out Charizard
Charizard Fire Punchs (Ferrothorn at 13 HP), I Gyro Ball (Charizard at 60% with Iron Thorns damage)
Charizard Fire Punches, Ferrothorn dead (Charizard at 50% with Iron Thorns damage).

Ok, so firstly I Shell Smashed without seeing that Honchkrow 4 has Thunder Wave. If I'd switched in Garchomp then things might have turned out differently. After the Thunder Wave I left Cloyster in as a paralysed Cloyster is basically useless, and of course it was fully paralysed.

I chose to Substitute first with Garchomp because I thought Honchkrow might Sucker Punch, though it was probably a 50/50 chance between Sucker Punch and Drill Peck (note they have the same power). I then go to kill it with consecutive Dragon Claws, but then I literally miss the Dragon Claw button on the second attempt and use Substitute instead!

Of course, the opponent just happened to have a Charizard when Ferrothorn was my last hope. What is funny is that when I sent out Ferrothorn I actually thought to myself 'he is probably gonna send out a Moltres or a Charizard'. I must be psychic (or I've played enough to know that the subway is really good at putting you into worst case scenarios).

For the record, Chand's last pokemon was Zapdos. 2 of the Zapdos used in the subway have Heat Wave, so there's a chance I lost by a long shot. I'd say the Thunder Wave mess at the start was the true game decider. If I'd switched in Garchomp then, it could have beaten Honchkrow and then Cloyster could have set up on Charizard or Zapdos and won (assuming Zapdos didn't paralyze or evasion-hax me). I don't think the misclick changed anything (Garchomp was almost dead and I doubt a near dead Garchomp and Ferrothorn would have beaten Charizard and Zapdos, especially if Zapdos had Heat Wave).

I will be giving this team another shot in the future that's for sure, but not right now.

[ashez]

Whats the best way to handle the bug/steels when using a rain dance team? I'm really struggling against them atm and unsure what to do, Fire move is obviously pointless, so should i use a strong/stab fighting move to wipe them out?

[some_guy]

My second attempt with Shuckle, Vaporeon and Salamence lost at 106, but I think the teams got potential for a much longer streak, so I won't do a proper write-up yet.

I was facing a Salamence with DD, Rock Slide, Dragon Claw and Zen Headbutt. Rockslide got 3 flinches on Shuckle. It would've been fine except I had Vaporeon in with +6 Defense and was pp-wasting Dragon Claw (so my Mence could set up), but I got hit by 2 consecutive crits which first broke the sub and then KOd (as the opposing Mence was at +6 Attack).
If only I'd been using sub when the first one hit, but I was worried about running out of pp :/

But anyway; no insurmountable problems as yet.

@atsync
That is classic subway shenanigans that it was a charizard on the blind switch, especially considering the number of pokes that Ferrothorn can set up on. Looks like a good team though. Must be nice to take less than 5 minutes per battle :P

[R Inanimate]

Originally Posted by Fat ashez

Whats the best way to handle the bug/steels when using a rain dance team? I'm really struggling against them atm and unsure what to do, Fire move is obviously pointless, so should i use a strong/stab fighting move to wipe them out?

Is this for Singles or Doubles?

[ashez]

Sorry ment to say, in doubles. Running a team similar to yours atm and bug/steel causing me trouble, lost twice to the bulky one cant think name but begins with e lol.

[Chinese Dood]

I don't see why you would struggle against Bug / Steel if you are using a rain team. Just overpower it with your STAB water moves.

Do you mean Escavalier? I'm sure it's 2HKO'd by any STAB water move in the rain.

[ashez]

yh thats the one CD lol memory went blank ha. Maybe its who its paired with why im struggling then, but i do only have 1 water abuser in the front row which is toad with HP. Im trying to use a less standard rain team, but am only certain on the 3 members atm, but atm that poke could OHKO both my original back line which might also be why i struggled. Looking into a new 4th membber atm.

[R Inanimate]

What Chinese Dood says is correct, for the most part your STAB water attacks should be used against Steels and Bugs.

Pokemon like Escavalier, Bronzong, and Metagross can take 2 75% powered Surfs in the rain, but if you have something with an Absorb Bulb or Life Orb, the extra power can allow you to take them out without any problems.

The only Steel Types I can think of that can give you troubles are Empoleon, Registeel, and Ferrothorn.

Empoleon resists water, but can't really hit back that hard, so you can usually leave them alone except for Empoleon 3 who has Icy Wind.

Ferrothorn is tough to take out. Ferrothorn 4 is most common but just sits there and sets up without attacking. You can literally KO it with Surf before it ever tries to make a move. Ferrothorn 3 doesn't have as much defense, and doesn't hit too hard but you have to watch out for Explosion. You will need a strong Fighting move for dealing with Ferrothorn 2 since it has Rest. Ferrothorn 1 is rarest, but it can be annoying with Sandstorm and Thunder Wave. It should also be taken out with Fighting moves.

Registeel is not resistant to water, but some of them have Amnesia, and can get to be a real pain if you let them get set up.

As for Bug Types, aside from Scarfed Pinsir, you shouldn't have troubles with Bug Types. I think all of them except Vespiquen and the previously mentioned Escavalier get 2HKO by 75% Surf in Rain.

[ashez]

Cheers for the heads up, tad slow on the rain team part, perviously stayed away from them but recently decided to try it out. Gave me abit to think about, scarfers arent a problem to my team due to running one myself who is doing well, much better than i thought it could anyway. I thought i'd need to fit a fighting move in there somewhere but currently only have one and its FB of all moves lol, so guna look into adding HP fighting onto my scarfer to see how it goes.

My main problem with the bug/steel types were both my back ups were murdered by them and obviously having a scarfer up front who isnt bulky ment i could get myself into a mess. but i've only been playing this team past few days so still learning how to play it etc

I might look into the items i'm running aswell due to atm i'm using focus sash, scarf,leftovers and absorb bulb so might need to add more power into the team via life orb etc, tempted to take out sash for life orb due to it not being as used much but i no for fact first match without it i'l loose haa!

cheers for the help CD and R.Inanimate, are you two working on anything new?

hopefully have a update for you soon :)

[R Inanimate]

Since the new VGC season came up earlier than expected, I've been a busy building myself a team for it since I might attend one of the November regionals. Thus, I haven't really been doing much in terms of the Battle Subway.