Smogon University PO Statistics — October 2011 - Page 9

LucaroarkZ · Nov 8th, 2011, 12:05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pharaohcalvin

That was done with an inner focus d-night... :/ I didn't bother even swapping the ability. and I was using a defensive spread (As I was comparing it too my D-night I use), and no it isn't only offensive ones. Also I can use the Dragon Claw, because unlike salamance, d-night can afford to get the extra dds up do to multi=scales, which means he does not miss out on any okoes. As far as haxorus goes, now think how many dd dances d-night can get up with those screens! Will will stay Hax does have its niche, but salamance is just outclassed ^^

You obviously didn't see the calc I did. Dragonite is barely 2HKOing Skarmory with a +1 Fire Punch; not like a +2 Fire Punch will be a whole lot different. On the other hand, Salamence has a high chance to OHKO with Fire Blast.

Also, you have no idea how unlikely it is to get 2 Dragon Dances without screens, even with Dragonite.

If Salamence were "completely outclassed", it would be UU. Alas, it isn't.

EpicTurtle · Nov 8th, 2011, 12:17:50 AM

I find it really funny that the top five Mons that are most used can be used on a team together.

So....

Nite, Rotom W, Scizor, Toed and Ferro can pretty much be used in every Rain team.

pharaohcalvin · Nov 8th, 2011, 12:47:49 AM

Things that are completely outclassed, can be kept in by bad players, look at Electivire in gen 4 OU. In all honestly the only thing Salamance has going for it is the ability to take down Skar easier, which isn't all that much. And he would be BL if he dropped out of OU, because he sure wouldn't be UU for long.

cornYBird · Nov 8th, 2011, 12:55:57 AM

Mixmence and 3 atk mence still outclasses dragonite in immediate power. Besides after stealth rock dmg nite is just a slower, albiet bulkier version of mence.

pharaohcalvin · Nov 8th, 2011, 1:01:09 AM

hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I think this is not a thread to debate this in. I you two wish to continue, we may do so in private chat, and/or on my wall, or if it is fine to continue here, if a mod would be kind to say so, then I am more then willing to show you how with just the wee team support d-night needs, he is better then mence. However, I don't think either of us will budge so yeah, it might just be fruitless.

Rayquaza_ · Nov 8th, 2011, 3:37:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pharaohcalvin

Things that are completely outclassed, can be kept in by bad players, look at Electivire in gen 4 OU. In all honestly the only thing Salamance has going for it is the ability to take down Skar easier, which isn't all that much. And he would be BL if he dropped out of OU, because he sure wouldn't be UU for long.

Lol.
Nothing outclassed Electivire in Gen 4, because there was no better physical-oriented electric type.
I don't care if you didn't like it, that's the cold hard truth.
Quit the anti-Electivire fad please.

waterwarrior · Nov 8th, 2011, 9:15:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pharaohcalvin

Things that are completely outclassed, can be kept in by bad players, look at Electivire in gen 4 OU.

"Oh look, a Gyarados! Better use my Electric- OH SHIT HE'S GOT AN EVIRE!"

That's how it worked. And then the opponent got swept if their Scarf Flygon/ Swampert is dead, or they didn't have one.

And what DID outclass Evire back in gen 4? Jolteon? Magnezone? Rotom? Zapdos? Wait a minute, they're all completely different from EVire! -.-

CommandurrClowncrete · Nov 8th, 2011, 9:28:40 AM

Evire wasn't that good. Having to rely on a 70 base power Stab move to sweep isn't as good as you make it sound. Apart from great coverage, he didn't have anything going for him.

And now we have team preview to pretty much make the Gyara-vire combo useless. You see them in the same team and you know your opponent is going to do.

TM13IceBeam · Nov 8th, 2011, 10:27:33 AM

I think we can already tell that by the very fact that Electivire is RU.

I'm not sure if it was everyone jumping onto the bandwagon that Electivire was shit, but imo it's a great BP recipient...

alphatron · Nov 8th, 2011, 11:14:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rayquaza_

Lol.
Nothing outclassed Electivire in Gen 4, because there was no better physical-oriented electric type.
I don't care if you didn't like it, that's the cold hard truth.
Quit the anti-Electivire fad please.

This. The time has long since passed where hating on Electivire made you look like a good player. E-vire wasn't good at all, but its not the worst pokemon in the entire series.

Cobraroll · Nov 8th, 2011, 2:34:40 PM

A shame that Electivire is among the many Pokémon who didn't get the stats their looks beg for. I mean, an electric troll should be more powerful. Look at the expression on its face, the muscles, the tails, never mind the colours...they all scream "I AM SCARY!", but the stats Game Freak gave it were labelled "mixed bag". It sure looks like it can punch through concrete and throw cars across soccer fields single-handed while powering a small metropolitan area with its tails, but I guess that fur really is there only for hiding a ridiculously slim frame and a hideous little head.

I've also always wondered why it didn't get Static. Now well, it might find a use in some later generation.

SHUCKLE MAN · Nov 8th, 2011, 4:40:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

This. The time has long since passed where hating on Electivire made you look like a good player. E-vire wasn't good at all, but its not the worst pokemon in the entire series.

I agree. I'm soooooooooo tired of people whining about Electivire. It's got to the point where it's underrated, if anything.

~~Xephyr~~ · Nov 8th, 2011, 5:49:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SHUCKLE MAN

I agree. I'm soooooooooo tired of people whining about Electivire. It's got to the point where it's underrated, if anything.

I think it's just the sheer disappointment. A Pokemon that can hit most the types super-effectively? Good God, it must be incredible! Then it turned out to be decent but not really great. Then people decided it'd be fun to bash on it.

SJCrew · Nov 8th, 2011, 6:26:39 PM

Evire was never a great Pokemon, but the thing that really did him in was Platinum, which gave us Rotom-A. For all of his super effective coverage, he didn't have a move in his arsenal to threaten that thing, and it severely cut down on his chances to troll around with a Motor Drive boost. People laughed at him because it was the cool thing to do, but in reality, those are the breaks. A decent Pokemon was screwed over by significant metagame advances, and managed to keep up with the tier through sheer popularity.

It's a lot better than what happened to Dusknoir, who was actually pretty handy in Gen 4 OU, but ended up never being seen or heard from again. To this day, I have not seen anyone even attempt to use him in Gen 5 OU. Maybe a few times in UU.

tomtom5858 · Nov 8th, 2011, 6:39:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

Dusknoir...a few times in UU.

What server is this again? Certainly not Smogon, I've only been seeing them in RU and NU.

BurningMan · Nov 8th, 2011, 6:43:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SJCrew

It's a lot better than what happened to Dusknoir, who was actually pretty handy in Gen 4 OU, but ended up never being seen or heard from again. To this day, I have not seen anyone even attempt to use him in Gen 5 OU. Maybe a few times in UU.

This is because he is totally outclassed by its Pre-Evo and Cofagrigus now in the its niche as a defensive spinblocker.

Its still not as sad as what happend to Umbreon who got ripped of its only trick this gen (i don't really know why its UU, Chansey is like a 100 times better as a supporter and Curse is meh)

***Antar**** · Nov 8th, 2011, 7:07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BurningMan

Its still not as sad as what happend to Umbreon who got ripped of its only trick this gen (i don't really know why its UU, Chansey is like a 100 times better as a supporter and Curse is meh)

Yeah, Chansey pretty much 100% outclasses Umbreon. But who really wants to run the Pink Bitch?

Avira · Nov 8th, 2011, 7:30:27 PM

In UU, Umbreon doesn't autolose to Mismagius and SubChandelure like how Chansey does, making it worth a team slot. It is also a better answer to Azelf.

skidilidy · Nov 8th, 2011, 8:15:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat BurningMan

This is because he is totally outclassed by its Pre-Evo and Cofagrigus now in the its niche as a defensive spinblocker.

Its still not as sad as what happend to Umbreon who got ripped of its only trick this gen (i don't really know why its UU, Chansey is like a 100 times better as a supporter and Curse is meh)

Dusknoir actually has acceptable offenses and can so fill a different role than its pre-evo. For example, a SubPunch set can be used to lure and kill Tyranitar, while still doing a good job at defensive spinblocking.

Axmaster68 · Nov 8th, 2011, 10:29:32 PM

I'm laughing as Quagsire gets 3% usage in OU, but yet is still RU, where it gets 3% usage too!

***Antar**** · Nov 8th, 2011, 10:34:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Axmaster68

I'm laughing as Quagsire gets 3% usage in OU, but yet is still RU, where it gets 3% usage too!

Yeah, it amuses me, too.

People think that just because a pokemon is NU means that it sucks and couldn't *possibly* compete in OU.

Maybe that kind of thinking made sense back in the days when DougJustDoug based all the tiers on OU usage, but not any more with the way we do things.

Challenger · Nov 11th, 2011, 1:28:18 AM

I wonder, with Swamper dropping, if it will see new life in UU? One would think that it would take over as a reliable stealth rocker, but I doubt anyone is taking that from Donphan soon.

TM13IceBeam · Nov 11th, 2011, 5:37:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat nld230

I wonder, with Swamper dropping, if it will see new life in UU? One would think that it would take over as a reliable stealth rocker, but I doubt anyone is taking that from Donphan soon.

Swampert is OU and will continue to be OU for the next couple of months.

It's still too early to tell what will happen as UU will also undergo the same tier changes, meaning that Donphan may or may not be UU(it's also quite close to the OU cutoff iirc).

Darkon · Nov 11th, 2011, 7:33:12 AM

Well i'm seeing Dragonite in 9 of 10 teams in ladder, and probably Rotom-W will down in usage too. And i'm not seeing any sandstorm team in today battles, maybe sands down even more in usage D:

Jukain · Nov 11th, 2011, 2:05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Thundur

I think the rain mixed attacker set is really a great set. With hurricane, aqua tail, e speed, and roost with leftovers. Hit anything hard with hurricane or aqua tail and finish off the next turn with e speed. Great set.

Why wouldn't you run surf and thunder in those slots..... Mixed rain abuser is outclassed by pure special rain abuser. Although I guess rain boosted aqua tail can take on Blissey and Chansey, and Extremespeed can take on some scarfers and weakened Latios. But then why split the EVs and not just run Outrage over Hurricane?

Nov 8th, 2011, 12:17:50 AM	#202
EpicTurtle Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 429 Chompy for OU	I find it really funny that the top five Mons that are most used can be used on a team together. So.... Nite, Rotom W, Scizor, Toed and Ferro can pretty much be used in every Rain team. __________________ "If I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." -1 Cor 13:2 "40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’" - Matthew 25:40 (ESV)

Nov 8th, 2011, 12:55:57 AM	#204
cornYBird Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 13	Mixmence and 3 atk mence still outclasses dragonite in immediate power. Besides after stealth rock dmg nite is just a slower, albiet bulkier version of mence. __________________ hgss fc:2794 4929 8312 b/w fc: coming soon I DO use legal hacks: Legal Pokesav sets

Nov 8th, 2011, 10:27:33 AM	#209
TM13IceBeam Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 3,248 stuck in the past, locked in the present, banned from the future	I think we can already tell that by the very fact that Electivire is RU. I'm not sure if it was everyone jumping onto the bandwagon that Electivire was shit, but imo it's a great BP recipient... __________________ Start of turn 24 Natu used Grass Knot! It's super effective! The foe's Corsola lost 31% of its health! Riolu ftw Amazing Rotom-S is amazing KAKUNA i'm dead, don't bother contacting me

Nov 8th, 2011, 6:26:39 PM	#214
SJCrew Believer, going on a journey... Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,802	Evire was never a great Pokemon, but the thing that really did him in was Platinum, which gave us Rotom-A. For all of his super effective coverage, he didn't have a move in his arsenal to threaten that thing, and it severely cut down on his chances to troll around with a Motor Drive boost. People laughed at him because it was the cool thing to do, but in reality, those are the breaks. A decent Pokemon was screwed over by significant metagame advances, and managed to keep up with the tier through sheer popularity. It's a lot better than what happened to Dusknoir, who was actually pretty handy in Gen 4 OU, but ended up never being seen or heard from again. To this day, I have not seen anyone even attempt to use him in Gen 5 OU. Maybe a few times in UU. __________________ (02:53:55) +shrang: sleep is epic (16:14) .No Scrafty in UU.: CBtar? (16:14) .No Scrafty in UU.: that sounds like a not bad set (16:04:25) +Steamroll: nobody likes me @Relados: snowflakes has no sense of humor

Nov 8th, 2011, 10:29:32 PM	#220
Axmaster68 Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 701 The place where the Mudkips lie in peace and harmony.	I'm laughing as Quagsire gets 3% usage in OU, but yet is still RU, where it gets 3% usage too! __________________ Rage SS Scramble- Chapter 2 up! I have now soloed Whitney with a level 23 Totodile without X items or SE moves! Canceled SS Scramble CAP ASB Team

Nov 8th, 2011, 12:47:49 AM	#203
pharaohcalvin Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 191	Things that are completely outclassed, can be kept in by bad players, look at Electivire in gen 4 OU. In all honestly the only thing Salamance has going for it is the ability to take down Skar easier, which isn't all that much. And he would be BL if he dropped out of OU, because he sure wouldn't be UU for long.

Nov 8th, 2011, 1:01:09 AM	#205
pharaohcalvin Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 191	hmmm, the more I think about it, the more I think this is not a thread to debate this in. I you two wish to continue, we may do so in private chat, and/or on my wall, or if it is fine to continue here, if a mod would be kind to say so, then I am more then willing to show you how with just the wee team support d-night needs, he is better then mence. However, I don't think either of us will budge so yeah, it might just be fruitless.

Nov 8th, 2011, 9:28:40 AM	#208
CommandurrClowncrete Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 70 Gujarat, India	Evire wasn't that good. Having to rely on a 70 base power Stab move to sweep isn't as good as you make it sound. Apart from great coverage, he didn't have anything going for him. And now we have team preview to pretty much make the Gyara-vire combo useless. You see them in the same team and you know your opponent is going to do.

Nov 8th, 2011, 2:34:40 PM	#211
Cobraroll Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 750	A shame that Electivire is among the many Pokémon who didn't get the stats their looks beg for. I mean, an electric troll should be more powerful. Look at the expression on its face, the muscles, the tails, never mind the colours...they all scream "I AM SCARY!", but the stats Game Freak gave it were labelled "mixed bag". It sure looks like it can punch through concrete and throw cars across soccer fields single-handed while powering a small metropolitan area with its tails, but I guess that fur really is there only for hiding a ridiculously slim frame and a hideous little head. I've also always wondered why it didn't get Static. Now well, it might find a use in some later generation.

Nov 8th, 2011, 7:30:27 PM	#218
Avira Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 234	In UU, Umbreon doesn't autolose to Mismagius and SubChandelure like how Chansey does, making it worth a team slot. It is also a better answer to Azelf.

Nov 11th, 2011, 1:28:18 AM	#222
Challenger Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 100	I wonder, with Swamper dropping, if it will see new life in UU? One would think that it would take over as a reliable stealth rocker, but I doubt anyone is taking that from Donphan soon.

Nov 11th, 2011, 7:33:12 AM	#224
Darkon Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 71	Well i'm seeing Dragonite in 9 of 10 teams in ladder, and probably Rotom-W will down in usage too. And i'm not seeing any sandstorm team in today battles, maybe sands down even more in usage D: