(Beginner) Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

[Orcinus Duo]

Eh. If we're gettiing NWO to L-1, I propose a second bandwagon on Metal Bagon. Firstly, editing out his vote (not even an unvote!) looks like he was afraid of any suspicion on him, which obviously scummy. And secondly, yes, jumping on Empoof looks like he was eagerly trying to blend in with the crowd (haha that failed), avoiding attention.

[Aura Guardian]

Originally Posted by Fat khz

Seconding getting NWO to L-1 for 2 reasons:

1. Get more info from him. Notice that in this response he doesn't defend himself, just counterattacks some more:



By consensus he seems the most suspicious player by far, so at worst we clean him as noob town (or at least alleviate suspicion, good since mayor is useful late game so we don't want to lynch him now) and at best he cracks under pressure and outs himself as mafia. Either way, we should get a better read on him.

2. If anyone hammers him, they become suspect because they are either noob town or (more hopefully) scum.

Vote New World Order

Though I'm willing to unvote if it's necessary so that we can prove/disprove him as mayor against a counter claim.

(If you wonder about the formatting of this quote, I c/p'ed this in from your post, and unbolded your vote just in case) EDIT: Ok, I hate formating from c/p; suddenly it's right???

While I agree that his counter-attacking instead of defending is suspicious, his claim is not so in the least. Engineer Pikachu explained perfectly, I think. Until he defends himself more, my vote stands, but it is with some hesitation that I let it do so.

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

Eh. If we're gettiing NWO to L-1, I propose a second bandwagon on Metal Bagon. Firstly, editing out his vote (not even an unvote!) looks like he was afraid of any suspicion on him, which obviously scummy. And secondly, yes, jumping on Empoof looks like he was eagerly trying to blend in with the crowd (haha that failed), avoiding attention.

I think you just named our D2 lynch target - or D1 if NWO defends himself better slightly. I agree with your overall analysis. And the analyses of a few others

[Orcinus Duo]

Which analyses do you agree/disagree with, Aura Guardian?

[Aura Guardian]

I did not phrase that well, sorry. I meant that I agree with most/all of the ones regarding Metal Bagon. It just so happens that there are a few others, so I said I agree with a "few others" because there are a "few others."

Though, I do disagree with EP's analysis that the odds are unfavorable, but I think we have enough data to make that less important of a disagreement.

Other analyses I disagree with, since I'll interpret your question in the broadest relevant sense:

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

Spiffy: Town because scums don't willingly sub out in my experience
Empoof: Noob town for voting NL, even in RVS

Your evidence for Spiffy's innocence or guilt is somewhat irrelevant in my experience.
And I'm not quite so certain about Empoof.

Originally Posted by Fat New World Order

You seem to be very hypocritical. You openly said right here that no lynch would put mafia in a favorable position, yet you criticize me for lynching who I thought was the most suspicious individual.

I disagree with this one for obvious reasons.

Also, I disagree with khz on there being a "most" suspicious this early in the game - just rather suspicious.
(also, what does RVS stand for?)

[Orcinus Duo]

random voting stage, the first votes of a game where we have little/no information to go on.

Spiffy is town as far as I'm concerned at this point in time because of his subbing, which is the only info we have to go on. It's not a strong town read by any means, but it's a town read nonetheless.

I'd love to hear your logic behind empoof not being noob town. His vote for you is clearly RVS.

[nEsp]

I fail to see how getting subbed in/out proves a role to be town. Could you please explain how the time of subbing can give hints on whether or not a role is town, as I fail to see why IRL occurrances would happen at one time if you're mafia, and at one time if you're town?

[Spiffy]

khz no offense but I don't see how your vote was necessary, as NWO had like three votes on him already, especially since he's claimed mayor!
And I really don't see what other defense he has to make other than claiming mayor. He explained why he voted for Ditto, and although it was pretty crappy reasoning, it was an explanation nonetheless. So I really don't understand votes such as "I'm voting him until he gives an explanation!"

I don't mean to be "buddying" NWO, but I tend to do that to claimed mayors from time to time! I'd hate to lose our mayor D1 like in Peace NOCed. -_-

[Orcinus Duo]

Originally Posted by Fat nEsp

I fail to see how getting subbed in/out proves a role to be town. Could you please explain how the time of subbing can give hints on whether or not a role is town, as I fail to see why IRL occurrances would happen at one time if you're mafia, and at one time if you're town?

Typically, townies (especially VT) are more likely to sub out than Mafia, but that's just in my experience in mafiascum. If you land a power role, especially in a game so eagerly wanted such as this one, it would definitely take more to make you sub out than if you had a largely nonconsequential role. That's my crappy reasoning from the one content post that Spiffy has made. Like I said, it's a weak read.

I'm fairly concerned about the speed at which NWO claimed. It was completely unnecessary, and I'm starting to see it as a town/mafia gambit. Revealing mayor a page into d1 is definitely not a very pro-town thing to do and it ups our chance of losing a power role. But...yeah, let's wait to see if anyone counterclaims.

Lynch: Metal Bagon looks like a good target for stated reasons. Who's with me?

[Aura Guardian]

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

random voting stage, the first votes of a game where we have little/no information to go on.

Spiffy is town as far as I'm concerned at this point in time because of his subbing, which is the only info we have to go on. It's not a strong town read by any means, but it's a town read nonetheless.

I'd love to hear your logic behind empoof not being noob town. His vote for you is clearly RVS.

Actually, I think it was more voting against me because I voted against him because he voted No Lynch. And it was more of uncertainty - sort of like a gut feeling, only slightly less compelling to me. Oh, and thanks for the definition of RVS.

Originally Posted by Fat Spiffy

khz no offense but I don't see how your vote was necessary, as NWO had like three votes on him already, especially since he's claimed mayor!
And I really don't see what other defense he has to make other than claiming mayor. He explained why he voted for Ditto, and although it was pretty crappy reasoning, it was an explanation nonetheless. So I really don't understand votes such as "I'm voting him until he gives an explanation!"

I don't mean to be "buddying" NWO, but I tend to do that to claimed mayors from time to time! I'd hate to lose our mayor D1 like in Peace NOCed. -_-

I think that this is overall more of a "we want more reasoning than that" than a "he hasn't given any reason." However, I would like to improve our odds a bit. So...

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

I'm fairly concerned about the speed at which NWO claimed. It was completely unnecessary, and I'm starting to see it as a town/mafia gambit. Revealing mayor a page into d1 is definitely not a very pro-town thing to do and it ups our chance of losing a power role. But...yeah, let's wait to see if anyone counterclaims.

Lynch: Metal Bagon looks like a good target for stated reasons. Who's with me?

I'm also concerned about that speed, but I've seen similar things from townies before (... and, during one of the first few games I've played, made the claim early mistake as a townie), so I think I'm convinced... enough... that NWO is town. So, yeah, on to pressuring the next target.

Vote Metal Bagon.

Will unbold my previous vote shortly.

[Nightmare Jigglypuff]

I'd like to weigh in on Empoof with regards to his alignment (Also posting so that i won't be subbed out.) I played MUDS mafia with him, and he was incredibly good. He seemed to catch on very quickly and easily decided everyone's plans. I find him voting NL kinda strange, but this is his first NOC game and he could have thought that No Lynch was a good idea.

All in all, i think Empoof is clean.

[Spiffy]

Just posting to say I've retracted my vote for kingofkongs because he hasn't been online in two days and hasn't seen my post yet.

[nEsp]

Originally Posted by Fat Nightmare Jigglypuff

I'd like to weigh in on Empoof with regards to his alignment (Also posting so that i won't be subbed out.) I played MUDS mafia with him, and he was incredibly good. He seemed to catch on very quickly and easily decided everyone's plans. I find him voting NL kinda strange, but this is his first NOC game and he could have thought that No Lynch was a good idea.

All in all, i think Empoof is clean.

Wait a second. First you say that Empoof should be a good player, and that you find his behavior strange. Then you say that you think he is clean?

As I think all of us know, there are two possible reasons he could have voted no lynch:

1. He's a newbie.

2. He's mafia or neutral.

You say that he's not new to mafia, even though he's new to NOC. This eliminates option one. Sure, you say that he could have thought that a no lynch was a good idea, but if he's the "incredibly good" player you say he is, he should have been able to realise that it's actually a bad idea.

[Orcinus Duo]

Originally Posted by Fat Nightmare Jigglypuff

I'd like to weigh in on Empoof with regards to his alignment (Also posting so that i won't be subbed out.) I played MUDS mafia with him, and he was incredibly good. He seemed to catch on very quickly and easily decided everyone's plans. I find him voting NL kinda strange, but this is his first NOC game and he could have thought that No Lynch was a good idea.

All in all, i think Empoof is clean.

This takes scum buddying to a whole new level.

Empoof I feel is clean, even with theOMGUS'ing on AG. Niggly, whats your read on MB?

(also, do I need to keep hyperlinking stuff? And I'd like to request for people not to edit out their votes, otherwise it's hard to keep track of the game.)

[New World Order]

I don't see what other defense I'm supposed to put up, there has currently been no other mayor to step up and challenge this position. I've revealed my reasoning for making a potentially bad lynch: on day 1, any lynch is worth the risk since you don't want mafia getting a free day, even though you get a 1/3 chance of actually getting a mafia, that slight chance is still worth the risk provided you don't accidentally kill an important town role like inspector or... mayor! As well, if I were mafia, why would I fake claim a common role like mayor? It would be an instant death if the real mayor stepped up. Because even if the real mayor is lynched Day 1, you're still going to die Day 2 or die to a vigilante. As well, Engineer Pikachu's strategy for a mayor off is prone to Stealth Lynches, if me and the fake mayor each vote on each other, then suddenly two mafia members vote on me last minute, then I die early game. (although this might reveal 2 mafia in the Stealth Lynchers)

Oh yeah, this is only my second mafia game, so I didn't know that revealing mayor on day 1 was a bad idea. Since loudkirbyking revealed himself as village leader day 1 in PMD mafia and proceeded to win the game almost single handedly, even though there actually was another mayor who didn't claim for some reason. So I thought it was a good idea to reveal the role right now so people can't fake it. I guess I'll need bodyguard for now or something.

[Walrein]

List of common definitions so that Orc doesn't have to keep hyperlinking:
RVS - The Random Voting Stage
Buddying - Where one mafioso seems to always support another mafioso
OMGUS - Short for Oh My God You Suck, basically a revenge vote at the person who voted you
MYLO - Mislynch and Lose, means that if a villager is lynched that day, the town will lose after the mafia nightkill
LYLO - Lynch or Lose, means that scum MUST be lynched or the town will immediately lose
FoS - Finger of Suspicion, a formal declaration of suspicion without having to vote
Bus - When one mafian gets another lynched to try to appear cleaner
ISO: Isolation. Usually refers to reading a player's posts in isolation. You can view one person's posts "in Isolation" by clicking the post# in the top right corner of the post.

Let me know if I forgot any.

[nEsp]

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

(also, do I need to keep hyperlinking stuff? And I'd like to request for people not to edit out their votes, otherwise it's hard to keep track of the game.)

I believe you should just to link to a list of abbreviations. I believe most people are able to figure out the meaning of obvious terms such as "buddying" without the use of a wiki, though.

[zorbees]

EDIT: unvote Spiffy from earlier

Lynch Aura_Guardian

[Walrein]

Vote Tally
New World Order (2): Ditto, khz
Metal Bagon (2): Orcinus Duo, Aura Guardian
Aura Guardian (2): Empoof, zorbees

[Aura Guardian]

I would love to see your reasoning, zorbees.

[Orcinus Duo]

Originally Posted by Fat New World Order

I don't see what other defense I'm supposed to put up, there has currently been no other mayor to step up and challenge this position. I've revealed my reasoning for making a potentially bad lynch: on day 1, any lynch is worth the risk since you don't want mafia getting a free day, even though you get a 1/3 chance of actually getting a mafia, that slight chance is still worth the risk provided you don't accidentally kill an important town role like inspector or... mayor! As well, if I were mafia, why would I fake claim a common role like mayor? It would be an instant death if the real mayor stepped up. Because even if the real mayor is lynched Day 1, you're still going to die Day 2 or die to a vigilante. As well, Engineer Pikachu's strategy for a mayor off is prone to Stealth Lynches, if me and the fake mayor each vote on each other, then suddenly two mafia members vote on me last minute, then I die early game. (although this might reveal 2 mafia in the Stealth Lynchers)

Oh yeah, this is only my second mafia game, so I didn't know that revealing mayor on day 1 was a bad idea. Since loudkirbyking revealed himself as village leader day 1 in PMD mafia and proceeded to win the game almost single handedly, even though there actually was another mayor who didn't claim for some reason. So I thought it was a good idea to reveal the role right now so people can't fake it. I guess I'll need bodyguard for now or something.

Ok. After that, I call for a bandwagon on NWO.

Calling for BG is what I see as a mafia attempt at flushing out the village protect, as to diminish chances of the NK getting blocked. Furthermore, calling EPs strategy flawed is so bad that it can't possibly be noob town. One townie for two scum? Hello this is very very good? This is a seriously bungled attempt at not being forced to prove the role, and thus NWO doesn't have the role to prove.

unvote: Lynch NWO

[Walrein]

Orc: Yes he is.

[Orcinus Duo]

Yeah lol I realized a few minutes after posting.

Also, include ISO in the thingy.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

Ok. After that, I call for a bandwagon on NWO.

Calling for BG is what I see as a mafia attempt at flushing out the village protect, as to diminish chances of the NK getting blocked. Furthermore, calling EPs strategy flawed is so bad that it can't possibly be noob town. One townie for two scum? Hello this is very very good? This is a seriously bungled attempt at not being forced to prove the role, and thus NWO doesn't have the role to prove.

unvote: Lynch NWO

I can prove this role if you like, my vote against anyone elses one on one. I don't see how calling for BG makes me suspicious. If I have an important role for late game, it would be of the village's best interest to protect me until late game.

[auramaster]

About Empoof, I don't think either NJiggly or nEsp has a very convincing argument. NJiggly's doesn't make any sense, with him describing Empoof as a great player and a newb in the same sentence, and why does that make you think Empoof is clean? nEsp makes a little more sense, but just because Empoof has played well in a previous OC game, doesn't make him a good NOC player.

I am also curious why zorbees voted for Aura_Guardian, could you explain why you voted for him?

[Aura Guardian]

Originally Posted by Fat New World Order

I can prove this role if you like, my vote against anyone elses one on one. I don't see how calling for BG makes me suspicious. If I have an important role for late game, it would be of the village's best interest to protect me until late game.

No sensible mafia member would step up for the one-on-one, meaning our chances of mafia lynch go down to 0. Overall, that would be worse than a no lynch because then we'd lose a villager guaranteed and our mayor would be out in the open - thus meaning the mafia only has to rand OTHER villagers until they hit the BG. Overall, bad strategy, there.