(Beginner) Returning to Our Roots NOC Mafia - GAME OVER: The Mafia Wins

[Empoof]

TalkingLion is my top mafia suspect right now. We've all talked about how the mayor claim was preemptive. He had 3 votes on him (2 people +1 mayor) before his claim. He steered the bandwagon in a different direction very close to deadline before a mafia flip. I would love a counterargument telling me he's town from someone, keeping in mind what Orcinus said about if he turns up scum it doesn't mean you're scum. I understand the no experience argument, but even I'm tired of hearing this one from people and I no-lynched D1. If this game is where you're getting experience from (as it is for ME i would like to point out) then continue to better your performance after you'd made a flop. You're only going to get better by reading through the thread, reading outside sources, and i recommend reading anything about your role/other roles in any of the mafia wiki's there are out there. HELP TOWN HELP YOU (or something like that)

Engineer Pikachu, what are your thoughts on Aura Guardian so far?

much love, cranky Empoof

P.S. I would like to note that over 40 people signed up for this game and while this is a beginner game, i would hope we have people who are interesting in playing mafia...

[Walrein]

Empoof gets epicness points for posting a Maplestory pic.

Carry on.

[Engineer Pikachu]

Originally Posted by Fat Orcinus Duo

You didnt have an opinion. So after 11 pages, you still don't have a read on anybody?

No, I honestly don't have a read that I'm confident on. It's probably a good time to say that I've never done an NOC before, and I've only done a couple mafias prior to this one.

EDIT: @Empoof: I'm not really sure. He's been making logical posts, but in the only other game I played with him, he played like this and ended up being a mafia member moling the village...

[nEsp]

Originally Posted by Fat Spiffy

Please don't rip things out of its context. This was in regard to NJiggly's role, not mine.

Originally Posted by Fat Paperblade

nEsp, I don't follow your logic on Metal Bagon. Why would the mafia kill him when most people think he's scummy?

I assume that this reasoning of mine may be due to me being newbie-ish, but let me explain. If I were mafia, I wouldn't dare let someone who could be inspector live, especially considering that MB was unlikely to have a BG that night, due to him being so suspicious. It's not like we wouldn't think along the lines of "mafia may be sparing him because we may think he's scum". But I guess this leads to a WIFOM situation...

Originally Posted by Fat Paperblade

also it's possible that zorbees just got namekilled, as he's a pretty good player

I'm afraid that I'm not used to the community yet, and I've not seen how good certain users are. It's agree that it's quite possible he got namekilled and we were just unlucky that he was the inspect.

Maxim, how come you chose to vote for NJiggly instead of any of the other two you listed?

[Orcinus Duo]

Answering for maxim, he thinks njiggs was more scummy.

Quite frankly, this day discussion isn't getting anywhere. Let's just Lynch TalkingLion

[Paperblade]

I would like to give TL the chance to claim (if nothing else) before pushing him to majority, since I don't really see any downsides to it.

Edit: Remember that pasting your role PM is a no-no. If you are town, it would not do to have you getting yourself modkilled :|

[Empoof]

I'm comfortable with (unvote) Lynching TalkingLion, and he's already tried to claim a vanilla villager... My reasons for lynching him are in my last post btw.

As it seems town as pretty much decided TL is suspicious, could someone outline the risks of TL having truth to his claim and letting me know how much this lynch would hurt town if he flips vanilla? As in, does his vanilla claim outway his suspicious behavior. Yes, lynching town is obviously bad but is it worse to go after someone less suspicious with the chance that they have a power role or are more beneficial to town survival?

If this is confusing I'm willing to rephrase/elaborate.

[Paperblade]

Oh right that. Note to self: Make a spreadsheet

lynch talkinglion

[khz]

Originally Posted by Fat Empoof

I would love a counterargument telling me he's town from someone, keeping in mind what Orcinus said about if he turns up scum it doesn't mean you're scum.

I'll just play devil's advocate here for a moment; the only reason I can see for TL being scum is that he claimed VT. My reasoning behind this is that if he was scum and wanted to prevent himself being lynched, wouldn't he claim a power role? If he claimed, say, alliance checker or something then he might have gained some time while we checked out that claim because we didn't want to lynch such a key role. Lynching a vanilla townie is the least worst of the harmful lynches, so there won't be so much apprehension than if he claimed a power role.

Having said that, I'm going to reread the thread before casting my vote. I'm not sure if I am convinced by this logic or not lol.

[Paperblade]

The reason for the lynch is that the "Hey guys we should lynch NJiggs" during D1 felt like a noob maf trying to divert attention from his mafbuddy and he's not really explaining himself today. In addition, he claimed vanilla, so if we're wrong, we aren't losing anything of importance.

[khz]

Originally Posted by Fat Paperblade

The reason for the lynch is that the "Hey guys we should lynch NJiggs" during D1 felt like a noob maf trying to divert attention from his mafbuddy and he's not really explaining himself today. In addition, he claimed vanilla, so if we're wrong, we aren't losing anything of importance.

By "this logic" I mean what I posted.

EDIT: Just finished reading over the thread. I don't think any townie can be that noob and try to change a lynch 15 mins before deadline. At least if he does flip town, we only lose a vanilla townie, and not one thats awfully likely to be productive in the future.

Lynch TalkingLion

[Empoof]

Originally Posted by Fat khz

I'll just play devil's advocate here for a moment; the only reason I can see for TL being scum is that he claimed VT. My reasoning behind this is that if he was scum and wanted to prevent himself being lynched, wouldn't he claim a power role? If he claimed, say, alliance checker or something then he might have gained some time while we checked out that claim because we didn't want to lynch such a key role. Lynching a vanilla townie is the least worst of the harmful lynches, so there won't be so much apprehension than if he claimed a power role.

Having said that, I'm going to reread the thread before casting my vote. I'm not sure if I am convinced by this logic or not lol.

First, thank you for posting a counter argument.

Going the "mafia claiming a power role" route can be dangerous for a mafia player, as there could be counterclaims and we could poke him for evidence of his role (if he has night actions, some results, etc). Alternatively, if claimed vanilla he doesn't have to worry about counterclaims or night results and it's not a role that requires any proof.

Yet, this lynch does seem pretty ideal, seeing as we either flip a scum or a vanilla...

WIFOM: TL is mafia and knew claiming village would be the least scummiest claim
@khz i think Paperblade was talking about how you say the only scummy evidence is the claim, instead of his other scummy actions.
It's late and that logic is probably not quite there. I'll review my post tomorrow.
EDIT: by "that logic" i meant my own not khz or anyone elses

[Mithril]

While I still find pokemaniac to be very suspicious, if the consensus is to lynch talkinglion I don't have a problem with it.

unvote and lynch TalkingLion

[khz]

Originally Posted by Fat Empoof

First, thank you for posting a counter argument.

Going the "mafia claiming a power role" route can be dangerous for a mafia player, as there could be counterclaims and we could poke him for evidence of his role (if he has night actions, some results, etc). Alternatively, if claimed vanilla he doesn't have to worry about counterclaims or night results and it's not a role that requires any proof.

Yet, this lynch does seem pretty ideal, seeing as we either flip a scum or a vanilla...

WIFOM: TL is mafia and knew claiming village would be the least scummiest claim
@khz i think Paperblade was talking about how you say the only scummy evidence is the claim, instead of his other scummy actions.
It's late and that logic is probably not quite there. I'll review my post tomorrow.
EDIT: by "that logic" i meant my own not khz or anyone elses

That's good for the mafia too: since they know who's town and who's not (assuming only one mafia) and village have no reason to lie, they find the identity of power roles.

[Orcinus Duo]

TL is noob scum, wouldn't have thought of fakeclaiming a power role.

[TalkingLion]

All right, let me just say this. I do agree that there isn't much to lose from me being lynched as I don't have any role to help the village, and I didn't want to fakeclaim as there's no reason for me to if I'm village. Not only am I not helpful, but I'm also appearing as scum. One thing that I would like to point out is that NJ has not posted in the thread since Day 1, even though he was online yesterday. He is clearly avoiding this as he doesn't want to sound any more like scum. Well I don't think there's much else that I can do to save myself at this point, but I just want to say that you could be lynching a mafia instead of a vanilla.

[Orcinus Duo]

I agree that you're not helpful. Why not start being helpful?

[TalkingLion]

I don't see how I can. First, I'm going to be lynched today unless someone else proves to be more scummy. Second, I have no role so I can't give any night results out. What else is there to do that can be helpful?

[Orcinus Duo]

Oh yeh, I forgot, Vanilla townies are completely useless and have no ability to help town. 9.9

This is a good lynch regardless of cardflip.

[Orcinus Duo]

Originally Posted by Fat Aura Guardian

I think that's rather unlikely, but now that I reflect on the NOC game I hosted and on SDS's Lockdown 2, I guess it isn't implausible.

Wait AG what do you mean by this? Njiggs participated in those two games? How was performance?

[Nightmare Jigglypuff]

@Walrein, nice inactivity pm.

Orcinus, I didn't participate in those two games. I actually don't even think i was around for them. The only other NOC game i was in was Desktop Dungeons one, and in that one i got killed off the next night without any say.

Anyways, my analysis if the game so far.

Aura_Guardian: He's being a control freak. At the same time, he does that a lot, so i'd say he's town.
Metal Bagon: Has been acting incredibly suspicious, could very well be mafia. At the same tome, i know how Metal Bagon thinks, and there still is a chance of him being noobtown.
TalkingLion: Has completely avoided the question of why he tried to protect a mafioso, and is just acting scummish in general.

I'll probably post more analyses if you'd like me to, but for now, the safest option is to Lynch TalkingLion.

[Orcinus Duo]

njiggs analyze empoof please

EDIT: I'm actually going to unvote for now. I'd like to hear from the following people:
Njiggs on analyzing empoof, on what should be done for inactives, and on what hints he sees as being definite scumtells.
Empoof on what behaviors he thinks are pro-town.
TL on...nah, I've heard enough.
And, all three of you on below:

There is a method to my madness.

Since there is a chance of scum pushing a potential mislynch on TL while I'm asleep, might as well get my reasoning over with
1. The epiphany here was that empoof reserved a spot in this game. This, to me, hints that he is mayyyybbeee a power role, since he most likely requested a role and since he was the only confirm, he probably got it.
2. Njiggs buddied with empoof pretty summily
Therefore, this string of incredibly weak logic leads to
3. Empoof is a power role with a partner,
4. empoof and njiggs is scum.

This is mostly gut, to be honest. But that's just me. My suggestion is at this point to lynch nightmare jigglypuff, and i'm not going to vote because i'd like to hear other opinions.

[Maxim]

Unvote

Lynch TalkingLion

[Nightmare Jigglypuff]

Analysis on Empoof? Did a noobtown move on D1. Has been trying to stay under the radar ever since then, but that could also be paranoia. All in all, probably a noobtown.

[auramaster]

Counted up the votes, I think this is correct but I could be wrong because so many people haven't unbolded their previous votes!

TalkingLion: Aura Guardian, New World Order, Engineer Pikachu, Empoof, Paperblade, khz, Mithril, Nightmare Jigglypuff, Maxim (9)
NJiggly: TalkingLion, auramaster (2)
Maxim: Flamestrike, Spiffy (2)

Majority is on TalkingLion and has been for two hours, unless their is another mayor/negative vote/etc. that we don't know about. Also Lynching Nightmare Jigglypuff partly because he didn't answer all of OD's questions, partly because I suspect he's Mafia as mentioned in my last post, and partly because ending the day early with majority prevents NJiggly/Empoof/TL from answering OD's questions, so I'm keeping my vote off of TL. For this reason, I also encourage at least one person voting for TL to unvote for now.