Racism on the Server

elchupo · Nov 28th, 2011, 8:06:42 AM

I suppose this is the best place discuss something that I've noticed and has been irking me.

Why is it that every time I see someone use a racial epitaph on the server's chat (happens quite often), the mods don't do anything to curb it or reprimand it? Especially whenever I see 3 or 4 mods reply very quickly with a "English only" when someone writes something in a different language, yet don't say anything when the N-word is dropped, or Spic, or something similar.

I was just wondering what smogon's policy on this is? I know the server is currently in a bit of "battle" with SkarmPiss but I think that has nothing to do with his anti-Semitism and everything to do with his spamming (so it can't really be argued that he's being banned because he's a bigot).

Not that I'm arguing that the server should be strictly all PC, but If Smogon prides itself on intelligent debate and discourse, why doesn't this extend to its server chat? A simple "We don't tolerate that on here" from a mod would suffice.

***Antar**** · Nov 28th, 2011, 8:14:19 AM

I second this. Using racial slurs, even in friendly banter, should be far less acceptable as behavior than using a non-English language.

**Solace*** · Dec 1st, 2011, 10:17:08 AM

I usually kick/mute for excessive use of that stuff anyway, but in a non-serious conversation as long as it's not spam or meant to be derogatory towards another user it's usually let go. not everything is meant to be offensive imo, but we try to make sure it doesn't turn into something offensive.

**kd24** · Dec 1st, 2011, 10:31:02 AM

i agree with solace - there's a difference between saying "whats up my n-word" to someone and calling someone a "fucking n-word" when you lose for example. there's also a point of excessive use should be muted if they ignore a warning not to.

now, if i get pmed by multiple users that they are completely uncomfortable or offended by the chat, then i would make an announcement to tone down the language because obviously if im getting pms, then there is way too much going on - however, that has yet to ever happen and i don't think its that big of a deal for right now.

Alan · Dec 1st, 2011, 1:40:35 PM

I haven't been on PO in forever, but complaining about racist slurs in any online gaming medium is like complaining about nudity in porn.

**blarajan** · Dec 1st, 2011, 1:59:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Alan

I haven't been on PO in forever, but complaining about racist slurs in any online gaming medium is like complaining about nudity in porn.

He's right. Honestly, as kd24 said, if it's not using the word offensively (like.."fuck you dirty haxing n-er") then I don't honestly see the problem. If someone is getting rude or insulting people, I tell them to stop doing that or to calm down at the risk of a mute. It depends on the purpose of the word--not the word itself.

**Glen** · Dec 1st, 2011, 2:34:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat elchupo

racial epitaph

here lies a nigga

Steamroll · Dec 1st, 2011, 3:08:59 PM

unless it's pointed at a group of users or one in particular it shouldn't be taken as racist. KD, Solace and Blara have it right that the use of the word is much more important than the meaning of it.

On terms of handling it, I usually give out a warning before kicking/muting. I haven't had any cases where it's gone beyond a kick so I think people understand that it can be offensive.

kriss1989 · Dec 1st, 2011, 3:30:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat elchupo

a racial epitaph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

here lies a nigga

*slow clap for genuine cleverness* I think he meant epithet, unless there are people using slurs on dead people. Quite frankly, that's just rude; you should speak well of the dead not curse at them.

c l e a r · Dec 1st, 2011, 7:47:39 PM

basically, it is the context behind the word being said. People going on the server should know this already.

elchupo · Dec 2nd, 2011, 12:14:56 PM

I understand the futility in complaining about slurs on on-line gaming commnunities, but I was honestly confused when I seen things using like the n-word slide, compared to the response when someone wrote in a different language. It gave a very "White is right" vibe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Glen

here lies a nigga

I actually did mean to write epithet. I guess I've just been listening to too much old school punk.

Blue_Tornado · Dec 2nd, 2011, 12:27:35 PM

I don't get the flood of "obviously, this can't be helped" posts. You're implying that the 'racism' the OP is complaining about is normal internet shenanigans when it's not. When someone consistently misuses offensive 'racial' words, it really doesn't matter if the dude doesn't mean any offense - it's offensive. Besides, I've seen way too many instances in which there was a CLEAR crossing of lines and yet nothing was done about it.

**blarajan** · Dec 2nd, 2011, 3:25:06 PM

It's not inherently offensive, especially since the connotation for the word is predominantly a playful getting. I have never once been pmed about how the word on server as it is commonly used offended someone.

But instances where it's obviously racist are dealt with, through mutes or even bans. The other mods can attest to this.

~~Asterat~~ · Dec 2nd, 2011, 4:21:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Antar

I second this. Using racial slurs, even in friendly banter, should be far less acceptable as behavior than using a non-English language.

why not just put in a censor. I agree with antar BTW

**Solace*** · Dec 2nd, 2011, 4:29:32 PM

putting in a censor is probably very difficult, and i don't think its worth it. given the fact that i havent really seen anybody overly use the word or have a bad intention of it, i dont think its that big a deal

Woodchuck · Dec 2nd, 2011, 5:57:01 PM

Honestly, you aren't giving the mods enough credit. At least in my experience, every time I've seen an ill-intentioned use of a racial slur, it's been disciplined with at least a warning. While these shouldn't be ignored, if the 'attack' is in good humor I really don't see what the problem is.

***Delko**** · Dec 2nd, 2011, 6:35:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Solace

given the fact that i havent really seen anybody overly use the word or have a bad intention of it, i dont think its that big a deal

My thoughts exactly.

yee · Dec 2nd, 2011, 6:51:31 PM

I agree with Woodchuck that the mods can be trusted in making sure ill-intentioned racist slurs will be taken seriously and punished.

Yamata no Orochi · Dec 2nd, 2011, 8:56:54 PM

I've hardly seen this user inside the PO server, but mods do take this stuff seriously if it isn't a joke or anything.

***Great Sage***** · Dec 2nd, 2011, 10:09:01 PM

Smogon has never had any particular policy on racism. However, if someone is making malicious racist comments, the moderators will take appropriate action. We will (and have) banned users for consistently making impolitic remarks. We will not try to filter out every little thing (or really anything at all) that might offend someone, because word filters are absurdly easy to bypass and in general not worth the effort. We will also not continue debating in this thread, because we're going around in circles and, though cliche, "it's the Internet". Some people are going to say things that you don't like; certainly it is not that hard to ignore a passing mention of a slur, and as I said, disciplinary action does occur for persistent cases.

Nov 28th, 2011, 8:06:42 AM	#1
elchupo Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 367	Racism on the Server I suppose this is the best place discuss something that I've noticed and has been irking me. Why is it that every time I see someone use a racial epitaph on the server's chat (happens quite often), the mods don't do anything to curb it or reprimand it? Especially whenever I see 3 or 4 mods reply very quickly with a "English only" when someone writes something in a different language, yet don't say anything when the N-word is dropped, or Spic, or something similar. I was just wondering what smogon's policy on this is? I know the server is currently in a bit of "battle" with SkarmPiss but I think that has nothing to do with his anti-Semitism and everything to do with his spamming (so it can't really be argued that he's being banned because he's a bigot). Not that I'm arguing that the server should be strictly all PC, but If Smogon prides itself on intelligent debate and discourse, why doesn't this extend to its server chat? A simple "We don't tolerate that on here" from a mod would suffice.

Nov 28th, 2011, 8:14:19 AM	#2
*Antar That's Dr. Antar to you Super Moderator** Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 2,050 DC Metro Area	I second this. Using racial slurs, even in friendly banter, should be far less acceptable as behavior than using a non-English language. __________________ Codes and Hacks I Use PBR FC: 4898-8739-8815 (See here) Black FC: 4040 5386 0128 / White 2 FC: 4771 3664 7215 My Narrated PBR & Gen V Battles My Trade Thread Convert any sim team to pkms Pokemetrics: A Blog

Dec 1st, 2011, 10:17:08 AM	#3
Solace* i was born to save the doctor Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,978 i love #thatPOWER Mentor	I usually kick/mute for excessive use of that stuff anyway, but in a non-serious conversation as long as it's not spam or meant to be derogatory towards another user it's usually let go. not everything is meant to be offensive imo, but we try to make sure it doesn't turn into something offensive. __________________ when ppl are like ‘the new pokemon are so unoriginal and dumb’ im like?? ? ? celebi was a flying onion

Dec 1st, 2011, 10:31:02 AM	#4
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	i agree with solace - there's a difference between saying "whats up my n-word" to someone and calling someone a "fucking n-word" when you lose for example. there's also a point of excessive use should be muted if they ignore a warning not to. now, if i get pmed by multiple users that they are completely uncomfortable or offended by the chat, then i would make an announcement to tone down the language because obviously if im getting pms, then there is way too much going on - however, that has yet to ever happen and i don't think its that big of a deal for right now. __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

Dec 1st, 2011, 1:40:35 PM	#5
Alan Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,715 get the reptile to me	I haven't been on PO in forever, but complaining about racist slurs in any online gaming medium is like complaining about nudity in porn. __________________ music youtube Lorem ipsum id est oculis

Dec 1st, 2011, 3:08:59 PM	#8
Steamroll Woof Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,762 (*・_・)ノ⌒┻━┻ Mentor	unless it's pointed at a group of users or one in particular it shouldn't be taken as racist. KD, Solace and Blara have it right that the use of the word is much more important than the meaning of it. On terms of handling it, I usually give out a warning before kicking/muting. I haven't had any cases where it's gone beyond a kick so I think people understand that it can be offensive. __________________ *Pokemon Showdown!* \| *#pokemon!* \| *teambats!* *emoticons!* \| *chat logs!* \| *Gen VI!* \| *roller coaster!* \| *Henry!*

Dec 1st, 2011, 7:47:39 PM	#10
c l e a r Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,280 Carousel of Agony	basically, it is the context behind the word being said. People going on the server should know this already. __________________ いつからだろう君のことを追いかける There is no chance, no destiny, no fate, that can circumvent or hinder or control the firm resolve of a determined soul. - Ella Wheeler Wilcox Soul Silver FC: 5070 6986 0930 \| Black FC: 0218 1017 4907 I use legal hacks sometimes, events have been legit checked if I use them.

Dec 2nd, 2011, 12:27:35 PM	#12
Blue_Tornado Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 2,898 Phantastic	I don't get the flood of "obviously, this can't be helped" posts. You're implying that the 'racism' the OP is complaining about is normal internet shenanigans when it's not. When someone consistently misuses offensive 'racial' words, it really doesn't matter if the dude doesn't mean any offense - it's offensive. Besides, I've seen way too many instances in which there was a CLEAR crossing of lines and yet nothing was done about it. __________________ .

Dec 2nd, 2011, 3:25:06 PM	#13
blarajan no abuse pls Moderator Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,727 Mentor	It's not inherently offensive, especially since the connotation for the word is predominantly a playful getting. I have never once been pmed about how the word on server as it is commonly used offended someone. But instances where it's obviously racist are dealt with, through mutes or even bans. The other mods can attest to this. __________________ Team Babby: Little Cup in Ubers RMT

Dec 2nd, 2011, 4:29:32 PM	#15
Solace* i was born to save the doctor Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,978 i love #thatPOWER Mentor	putting in a censor is probably very difficult, and i don't think its worth it. given the fact that i havent really seen anybody overly use the word or have a bad intention of it, i dont think its that big a deal __________________ when ppl are like ‘the new pokemon are so unoriginal and dumb’ im like?? ? ? celebi was a flying onion

Dec 2nd, 2011, 5:57:01 PM	#16
Woodchuck <Feranfell> punbot irl aka virginity protector Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,652 us best	Honestly, you aren't giving the mods enough credit. At least in my experience, every time I've seen an ill-intentioned use of a racial slur, it's been disciplined with at least a warning. While these shouldn't be ignored, if the 'attack' is in good humor I really don't see what the problem is. __________________

Dec 2nd, 2011, 6:51:31 PM	#18
yee Signed and Sealed in Blood I would die for you Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,033	I agree with Woodchuck that the mods can be trusted in making sure ill-intentioned racist slurs will be taken seriously and punished.

Dec 2nd, 2011, 8:56:54 PM	#19
Yamata no Orochi http://pastebin.com/s3p3efrV Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 258	I've hardly seen this user inside the PO server, but mods do take this stuff seriously if it isn't a joke or anything. __________________ Loli Hadron Collider

Dec 2nd, 2011, 10:09:01 PM	#20
*Great Sage* Administrator** Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,872 Boston, MA Mentor	Smogon has never had any particular policy on racism. However, if someone is making malicious racist comments, the moderators will take appropriate action. We will (and have) banned users for consistently making impolitic remarks. We will not try to filter out every little thing (or really anything at all) that might offend someone, because word filters are absurdly easy to bypass and in general not worth the effort. We will also not continue debating in this thread, because we're going around in circles and, though cliche, "it's the Internet". Some people are going to say things that you don't like; certainly it is not that hard to ignore a passing mention of a slur, and as I said, disciplinary action does occur for persistent cases.