|View Poll Results: Who deserves MVP for this game?|
|Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll|
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:00:48 PM||#1|
Join Date: Jun 2011
Returning to Our Roots Postgame
Disclaimer: may be tl;dr
Also the poll will make sense if you make it to the end.
This was the second mafia game I ever hosted, and the first postgame I’ve ever written, so we’ll see how this goes.
The concept for this game came about when I saw Blue_Tornado’s thread in OSI about how Smogon mafia was dying and getting too complex. I decided that a simple NOC game would help us return closer to the game’s roots, hence the name.
The game wasn’t just some arbitrary clusterfuck of common roles, like Luigi’s Mansion Mafia unfortunately was. The Village was given a combination of power roles that could either dominate the Mafia or shoot themselves in the foot. The backups to inspector and bg were designed to prevent rands from hurting the village too badly. The Mafia was designed to be able to counter this, more or less. Janitor gave them better safeclaiming potential, while framer limited the effectiveness of two inspectors.
The odd part of this game is that barring a few particular instances, the night roles weren’t really that helpful for either side, especially with the early deaths of the village info roles.
Without further ado, here are the roles of the game, starting with our winners, the Mafia.
Your boss has ordered you to infiltrate and eliminate the disgustingly peaceful village of Mafiatown. So you will.
Your team consists of:
Ditto - The Stalker - Inspector
khz - The Framer - Framer (no shit)
kingofkongs - The Gossip - Announcer
auramaster - The Hooker - Take a guess.
Each night, you will choose one member to execute your team’s kill. The chosen member will send Walrein a PM titled “Night X - Killing USER”. USER will die.
From your previous stakeout, you know that the town does not have a Barber, a Beggar, a Taxi Driver, a Fireman, or a Reporter. Use this information however you like.
Your team’s official IRC channel is #ronwashington. All relevant modes have been set. Please contact Walrein ASAP for access to the channel.
You win if the only living players are allied with the mafia, or if nothing can prevent the same.[/quote]
This was the Mafia’s team PM. Not much to say about this except that the safeclaims didn’t help a bit. The original plan was to have kingofkongs claim reporter, a reasonable claim for an announcer, but that didn’t quite go so well. Also, the whole “PM Walrein” thing really didn’t happen, as all of the Mafians except khz pretty much sent actions solely over IRC.
Standard mafia inspector here. The Mafia’s only source of information besides pr-hunting (like scumhunting, but with power roles).
Ditto moled the village quite well, being the cleanest villager in the eyes of some thanks to his high activity level and prodding of inactives, despite the fact that he never made a reads list. This eventually backfired on him when Metal Bagon thought him clean as well and took a potshot at him the night he died. He could have hooked MB at this point, having inspected him already, but he left him unhooked hoping he would shoot at a villager, and this backfired. He was very misfortunate with his inspects - respectively, they were on a vanillager, the miller, and Metal Bagon (the only good inspect, but a no-brainer as well; this was a the night after he falseclaimed), and the night he died he was trying to inspect another vanillager.
The framer is a role that is most prevalent on the site EpicMafia, but I decided it work well for the Mafia’s deception motif. It’s basically a nerfed Dickens role - this one only having the ability to make villagers appear guilty, without the power to mask Mafians. I realize I’ve caught a lot of flak for including a Dickens in a beginner game before, but this is a very common role, and it’s not nearly as powerful as the one I included in Luigi’s Mansion. The role never came into play anyways, with the inspections dying to rands early on.
khz was one of the best mafians, with very few questioning his cleanliness until it was too late. The concerns raised by Jalmont on the final day were legitimate - many times he made posts with little-to-no content just to appear active, and it worked long enough to let them pull out a victory.
These guys were the source of tons of frustration for me, especially Hydrattler and Pernicious. Maxim was more active than them, but made tiny posts that were few and far between, and after missing actions from him for 2 straight nights, I subbed him out. Big mistake. Hydrattler didn’t do jack shit, making two meaningless posts and not sending actions. Pernicious came in, made one suspicious as hell list of reads, and then left Smogon. Yet somehow ginga was able to come in and take the suspicion off himself despite the inactivity and general scumminess. Go figure. It should be noted, however, that ginga left a stray vote on auramaster on the final day, which almost cost them the lynch.
The intention of having two announcers was to have them both claim in their announcements and give the village something to discuss Day 1. Maybe they’d even lynch between them.
It didn’t turn out that way. kok forgot to send his action N0, so Maxim, in his only action-sending of the game, sent in a joke announcement. kok then proved he was a horrible troll and got himself lynched on Day 1, ironically fulfilling my expectation of an announcer dying in said lynch. All in all, kok was probably the worst non-Hydrattler/Pernicious mafian.
Standard hooker. Seriously, what mafia DOESN’T have a hooker these days?
auramaster made some great plays during the night, but his day play was sketchy. I can’t remember if he posted a list of reads all game, and it was rather suspect if he did. Mostly he made small, insubstantial posts, often consisting of a vote tally and a comment that someone else had already said, just worded differently. Honestly, I’m surprised he wasn’t lynched earlier, as he played pretty much identically to Acklow (another mafia hooker) in Desktop Dungeons (another simple NOC). Granted, he did try to bus Pernicious to look cleaner, and he played well at night, as he pretty much took over the night actions when Ditto died. He correctly deduced that EP was bodyguard and that either Empoof, pokemaniac, or Mithril was vig, and he planned out endgame pretty well.
Overall, no one on the Mafia played spectacularly, but many played decently and they worked well as a team. The surviving three didn’t come under much heat until the final day (save for ginga’s predecessors), and they chose their kill targets well. The village made some dumb plays, but the Mafia did earn their victory.
Now let’s move on to our hapless village.
Do you need a role breakdown? It’s a vanillager.
nEsp/Quagsires: nEsp didn’t post much, but the posts he did make were branded as IIOA by the village, which quite a few of them were. He DID have some opinions, which he put in a spreadsheet (which I deleted from my list when he abandoned it iirc), but for some reason he never posted these.
Quagsires came in and fulfilled all of my expectations for a player of his caliber. He was active, posted plenty of opinions, and was one of the few villagers who didn’t seem to have brain damage. Unfortunately, he was killed off by Orcinus Duo’s “gambit”, which I will be discussing (read: ranting about) a little later.
Flamestrike: Flame was rather quiet during the early game, but each post he made was well-thought-out and contained plenty of opinion. I knew this guy would be a force if he started posting, so I prodded him to be a bit more active, and he essentially began to lead the village. Of course, this eventually led to his demise.
TalkingLion: TL’s inexperience definitely showed in this game, as he made plenty of questionable moves. Most prevalent among these was the attempt to switch lynch targets from kok to Nightmare Jigglypuff after many had already started bandwagoning kok. I understand you may not have had a scum read on him, but at that point, its better to just not vote at all. It didn’t help that he crumbled under pressure the next day, leading to him being shot by Empoof.
Orcinus Duo: The infamous “Orcinus Dumbass”, as some have called him. Up until his failed gambit, Duo actually played a rather solid game, getting a (admittedly lucky) bandwagon on a mafian on Day 1 and putting billymills-like pressure on some people. Unfortunately, he got on the bad side of Aura Guardian, who prefers to be on the sending end of pressure rather than the receiving end. This made AG make some questionable plays and get marked as scummy.
Orcinus’s ploy still confuses me, but I think the intention was to analyze voting patterns or something? I don’t even know. It probably sounded OK on paper, but it was executed horribly. For starters, he apparently forgot about the possibility that if he mislynched a villager, he would be next. This essentially wasted 2 days for the village. Secondly, of all the suspicious and inactive villagers available, he picked... Quagsires, one of the most vocal and intelligent players, and a player who in my mind was as clear as day.
This misplay shouldn’t be all that anyone remembers about OD, but it kinda DID cost the village the game. To sum up OD’s analysis, I leave you with a quote from UncleSam:
Standard inspector here. Only interesting thing is that he had a backup.
zorbees requested to not be vanilla, so I gave him the village’s most important role. The naturally soft-spoken zorbz made characteristically short posts with billy-style rand votes. Some posts contained even less than this, which I attribute to an attempt to act semi-scummy so that the mafia wouldn’t nightkill him. Unfortunately, Ditto decided to go namekilling, so zorbees was the first casualty.
I didn’t want the village to be completely fucked if the best roles got randed early, so I gave the inspector and bg a slightly nerfed backup. In the Sherrif’s case, he was a lowly alliance checker.
tas’s first (real) post in the thread was a request to sub out, so skipping right over him and getting to Paperblade. Another naturally quiet guy, Paperblade played similarly to zorbees, but his posts had a bit more content. He was a bit too obvious in revealing his Mithril inspect, which led to his death.
Backup bodyguard. The nerf would have been that he could only protect every other night. This role never came in to play, however, since EP never died, leaving pokemaniac as essentially a vanillager all game.
pokemaniac’s opinions were... interesting. He used odd logic to come to his conclusions, which were often wrong. He also had an annoying tendency to repeat what others had already said, which Paperblade pointed out in one of his last posts:
The fact that this role is a miller wasn’t expressly stated in the PM, but it WAS strongly hinted at. Pretty standard otherwise.
Niggly, as some call him, played rather poorly. He was quite inactive, his posts contained very little substance, and he flat-out refused to post reads. Honestly, I probably would have lynched him as well.
Very standard vigilante. I wasn’t lying when I told OD that Empoof reserving had nothing to do with what role he got, unless he requested a role. All non-requests were randomized, meaning that Empoof getting vigilante was sheer coincidence. I still probably shouldn’t have spoken up about the matter, however.
Empoof’s play was very solid. As vigilante, he always shot at the most suspicious target (Talking Lion, then Metal Bagon, then Pernicious the night he died). His no lynch play at the beginning was a bit suspicious, but people rightly put it down to inexperience. Some of his posts were a bit shallow, but he always spoke his mind.
Everything I have to say about the announcer role was said in kok’s analysis.
Mithril seemed to have IRL issues during the game, as even after I activity prodded him he posted very little. The fact that he only posted when called out is probably just an unfortunate coincidence. Somehow, this managed to make people think him scummy the entire game even after Paperblade, who said “Dunno, [Mithril] just seems like village to me”, turned up village. Oh well. He did use the announce pretty well, using it to anonymously provide input rather than trolling.
A standard hooker. Contrary to what AG believed, the mafia hooker did NOT have higher priority: the prios were exactly to same. If either hooker had targeted the other, the other would be hooked.
Aura Guardian played like typical AG, never afraid to speak his mind. There were times when his vocal nature hurt him, like his shouting match with OD killing all other discussion in the thread, and his accidental hooker claim. He did manage to hook one mafian, but Maxim was idling that night and khz performed all the mafia kills. Jalmont subbed in and immediately asserted his newness. His hooks were no more successful than AG’s; one targeted Engineer the night he tried to save Flame, although the mafia were also hooking EP. Jalmont nearly saved the village on the final day with his vote on aura, but he caved and switched to himself after being pressured by Kaxtar, which ended the game.
New World Order/Kaxtar:
Standard mayor is standard. Bonus points for integrating the game’s flavor into his role name.
NWO wound up claiming D1, a very unintelligent move in my opinion. I’m surprised that the mafia didn’t kill him right there and then. Of course, they wound up getting lucky. NWO was one of the most inactive players not named Maximdrattlernicious, eventually getting subbed out for Kaxtar. I had high hopes for Kax when he started being much more active than his predecessor, but he wound up tunnel visioning on Jalmont on the final day, leading to village defeat.
Safeguard was the role that could have either saved or fucked the village. On the one hand, safeguard could stop mafia hooks (though the role could still be hooked). On the other hand, it could also block the BG. The power of the role depended on the user.
polelover subbed out immediately, so no comments on him. Spiffy subbed in (without the lynch spiffy jokes for once) and became one of the best villagers, promoting discussion and providing experienced opinions. It quickly became quite clear that he was clean - which is why he raged so much when Engineer Pikachu declined to protect him and he became ded.
Overall, the village was killed by inexperience and namekills. Spiffy, zorbees, and to a lesser extend Paperblade all fell victim to this, leaving most of the remaining villagers as people playing their first mafia game. The ones that lasted to the end were all pleasantly active, but their inexperience showed in their opinions and analyses. The level of play by the village as a whole was a bit disappointing.
One player left - Metal Bagon, our wolf.
Wolf with inspect and immune to the first kill attempt on him. This included lynching, hence the failed lynch on him. Quite similar to the underpowered wolf from Luigi’s Mansion, but wolves generally don’t need as many abilities in NOC.
MB made mistakes from the start when he bandwagoned on AG’s random vote with no reasoning whatsover, a big no-no in early game situations. He compounded the situation by generally acting shifty and ignoring questions posed to him, and his ridiculous claim was the straw that broke the camel’s back. He did all he could to take down a villager, hopefully the vig, the night he died, but he wound up hitting Ditto ._.
I definitely put a lot more thought into this game than Luigi’s Mansion, and it showed. This game was rather close, and even on the final day it was still anyone’s game. Overall, the mafia definitely played a better game and earned their victory.
Best Villager - Flamestrike
This one was tough, since there wasn’t really a standout star on the village, but Flamestrike provided good insight and became a huge asset when he finally started talking.
Best Non-Vanilla Villager - Spiffy
Short lifespan, but definitely contributed a ton while he was alive.
Best Mafians - khz/Ditto
I really couldn’t pick between the two of them - Ditto had everyone in the village fooled, but died too early, while khz had longevity but didn’t quite dispel all the doubts about him.
Best Play - auramaster posting Metal Bagon’s fake from PMD.
Ignoring the questionable legality of this move, the play pretty much condemned Metal Bagon, eliminating the pesky wolf.
Worst Play - OD’s gambit.
I think I’ve already said everything that’s to be said about this play. Honorable mention goes to pretty much the entire final day for the village.
Funniest Moment - kok’s failed troll and subsequent rage.
Biggest Facepalm Moment - The 2 listed under “worst play”, along with E.P. getting double hooked when he finally got a protect right.
I think this one is pretty much self explanatory.
Most Active Villager - Orcinus Duo
If nothing else he was this.
Most Active Mafians - Ditto/auramaster
Again, hard to choose. Ditto was active in both the thread and on IRC, but died early. aura was pretty quiet in the thread, but led via IRC and was p. much always on, even during Ditto’s life.
Best Poster - Empoof
Best Non-Player Poster - UncleSam
Your post speaks the truth.
I'm going to do something a bit differently with this postgame. You may have noticed the poll that came with this postgame. I am going to let you, as players and observers, vote on the overall MVP for this game, with the candidates being the MVP winners for best villagers and mafians. Without further ado, let the voting and commenting begin!
<%minwu> happy feet, wombo combo, that ain't flacco
Mafia players might be interested in this
pun battle 2012
Last edited by Walrein; Feb 19th, 2012 at 8:23:55 PM.
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:08:14 PM||#2|
Join Date: May 2009
Wherever Democracy and Freedom Reign.
It is with the utmost humility I accept this most prestigious of awards.
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:08:38 PM||#3|
Join Date: Dec 2008
I deserve the Peyton Manning award, in that the village sucked without me.
I HAVE WON THE BET
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:13:49 PM||#4|
Join Date: Jul 2010
a fistful of quarters
The sad thing is that my lynch day 1 will promote the opinion that bandwagoning someone early game without having them defend themselves is a good idea. I don't care about dying early now, but i can't emphasize enough how much of a bad idea this is.
"I am an overachiever and proud of it! Put this in your signature too if you agree!"
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:16:05 PM||#5|
Join Date: Apr 2011
kok be furimad
And yeah I was way too obvious/eager with the Mithril thing. I should have gone with my original plan and waited until he was actually in danger of being lynched.
Also I voted Spiffy for MVP because it's kind of like lynching him.
Edit: Oh wait, now I remember. I outed because I was worried I was gonna die and wanted to hint at my inspect... Yeah smooth move.
Last edited by Paperblade; Dec 14th, 2011 at 10:26:46 PM.
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:18:16 PM||#6|
just came to say hello
Join Date: Aug 2008
|Dec 14th, 2011, 10:20:38 PM||#7|
take into the air...
Join Date: May 2009
Yeah, I have to say that I did a rather horrible job this game.
Having never played NOC before, this was a rather new experience; coupled with the fact that out of the few mafia games that I've played (Walrein, I have no clue where you got the vet part from) and the fact that I've almost never been village, I was pretty much destined to fail quite badly, as I'd done mostly IRC communication in the past games. For some strange reason, I also thought that I couldn't protect the same person two nights in a row, hence my rather erratic night actions, and my accidental slip and misplays in the game didn't help me much either.
In general, I felt that the village was stuffed full of either inactive or dumb players, with some obvious exceptions like Flamestrike and Quagsires; I, for one, played pretty badly. Since I'm pretty bad at deduction without IRC, I tried not to vote for somebody until I was reasonably sure that they were scum or if they were acting very suspicious. Unfortunately, the village (NJiggly, TalkingLion, kind of Orcinus) did a hell of a lot better at acting scummy than the mafia did; kudos especially to Ditto and khz. Orcinus essentially wasted two lynches for us, which may have been enough for us to turn the game around, but I doubt it.
|Dec 14th, 2011, 11:34:07 PM||#8|
Join Date: Apr 2011
Ugh, I thought I performed probably as well as I could have considering all the suspicion already on AG.
tbh, while I did have fun, NOC just really isn't my cup of tea. At the end of the game I just gave up, although I feel that I probably could've convinced people to lynch auramster. I just had this feeling of being ignored by the rest of the village. I think I brought up some good points, and yes while some of my logic was flawed I think I did as good of a job as I could've to try and clean myself (well being really defensive probably didn't help but w/e). Overall, I was kind of taken aback that nobody seemed to notice or care about 1. ginga's overreaction to my vote on him 2. khz's overreaction to my thoughts on him 3. the fact that auramaster had been online but had not posted for a week 4. My reasoning towards why the mafia hadn't killed me (which turned out to be right). I guess that was why I stopped caring and admitted defeat at the very end.
Looking back, I have no idea what I was thinking with my hooks. I can't really explain why I chose OD and EP. I actually thought EP was town and that there was a high possibility that he was a BG but I decided to hook him for some reason anyway. I was also thinking about hooking an inactive player instead but decided not to for some reason. (I was planning on hooking khz or auramaster the day i was lynched). Yeah don't know what else to say other than the fact that my hooks were pretty terrible.
|Dec 14th, 2011, 11:41:26 PM||#9|
Join Date: Dec 2008
I succeeded in my goal of not shooting myself in the foot and surviving past Day 3, therefore I am happy :) khz and Ditto definitely earned the win though, even if me and ginga had been taken out khz could probably have won the game by himself because he was trusted by everyone except Jalmont.
Not sure about Ditto, but I supported the zorbees kill because he was considered village by everyone, and was contributing to discussion. Kaxtar was left alive so long because until the game got close, his power wasn't a big threat, and both him and NWO were too inexperienced to help the village discussion much.
Was going through the channel log and found some fun predictions from me and kongs :)
23:42 <&auramaster> Who should we target?
23:42 <&kingofkongs> well in my opinion
23:42 <&kingofkongs> walrein gave at least one noob a power role
23:42 <&kingofkongs> and limited it on the more experienced players
23:42 <&kingofkongs> to try to make the game more of a learning experience
23:42 <&kingofkongs> that being said
23:42 <&kingofkongs> talking lion is most likely to get himself lynched (Nearly lynched Day 2 and killed by Vigilante the next night)
23:42 <~Walrein> roles were randomized
23:43 <&kingofkongs> he belived me in #PMD
23:43 <~Walrein> except for requests
23:43 <&auramaster> Probably, or at least gave it (A power role) to someone who doesn't stick out, like NJiggly or Engineer Pikachu (EP was Bodyguard, NJiggly was Miller)
23:45 <&kingofkongs> i know for a fact that ag has made plenty of stupid moves
23:45 <&kingofkongs> kk
23:45 <&kingofkongs> keeping him around in a shaky position is a great thing for us
23:45 <&kingofkongs> ag could easily be lynched and shit (Aura was suspicious, his sub was lynched)
|Dec 15th, 2011, 4:08:58 AM||#10|
Join Date: Aug 2011
redemption will come. -.-
reasoning behind gambit still stays, although looking back on it quagsires was a really fucking bad target. probably won't do it in the near future, but as I've said before, town has been cruising on luck for the entire game, and the sheer amount of subs is ridiculous. sorry guys. lesson to take away: don't play games close to finals.
typon77: orcinus is sex
13:38 SimonSays Okay, start pulling out.
13:38 SimonSays Let her sleep for the night.
Stroke softly the tigers of flame, you've nothing to fear.
i'm just the matchmaker
Last edited by Orcinus Duo; Dec 15th, 2011 at 4:23:13 AM.
|Dec 15th, 2011, 8:59:18 AM||#11|
Join Date: Dec 2007
gg, had a blast. Would play NOC again.
It is the empty space which makes the bowl useful. - Lao Tzu