(Data) State of The Game (11/13/2011) - IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT IN POST #233

[LouisCyphre]

There's an easier way to buff Rapid Spin.

Current Rapid Spin

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Rapid Spin: The Pokemon spins extremely quickly in place, generating a pulse of air that frees the Pokemon from any grasp the opponent has on it and physically knocking away Leech Seed, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock that are on its side of the arena. If Rapid Spin removes a hazard from the field, the Rapid Spin user will suffer the damage/effects of the removed hazard.

Attack Power: 4 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive

New Rapid Spin

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Rapid Spin: The Pokemon spins extremely quickly in place, generating a pulse of air that frees the Pokemon from any grasp the opponent has on it and physically knocking away Leech Seed, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock that are on its side of the arena.

Attack Power: 4 | Accuracy: 100% | Energy Cost: 3 | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Typing: Normal | Priority: 0 | CT: Passive

[Tortferngatr]

Deck made the original nerf to Rapid Spin due to hazards becoming closer in nature to worthless status if Rapid Spin had NO costs. My idea's goal is to keep RS's opportunity cost high, but also keep the cost of hazard stacking high while making RS more viable against massed hazards.

[Lord Jesseus]

I wouldn't say worthless, unless you set up against the spinner itself you're likley to get at least one Pokemon hit, and hazards aren't exactly weak. And if they don't have one of the 18 FEs capable of learning Rapid Spin...
edit: 18 +CAPs, for some strange reason veekun doesnt list them. :p
ok so its 21 overall
edit: +Smeargle aaaaargh

[Rediamond]

I agree with Lou's proposal.

The fact is, a Pokemon already has to suffer hazard damage switching in, and bar energy intensive combinations, it can still be spin blocked. That, and it means that there is a tactical reason to preserve or destroy spinblokers in longer switch=KO matches.

And I firmly believe that it should not be a good idea to hazard stack if the enemy has a spinner. And if you look at the list of spinners, there will not be a spinner in every long battle. Therefore, spikes are still good in quite a few situations.

[Lord Jesseus]

Note before reading: I was bored/curious
Also: Forgot Smeargle above...

Yeah, spinners aren't hugely popular in ASB either. According to the census as of Nov 28 (a bit old, I know, but should give a fair idea):
Tomohawk: 28
Starmie: 18
Fidgit: 18
Colossoil: 13
Excadrill: 11
Cloyster: 10
Blastoise: 8
Claydol: 8
Kabutops: 7
Donphan: 6
Armaldo: 6
Tentacruel: 4
Smeargle: 4
Foretress: 3
Hitmonchan: 3
Sandslash: 1
Torkoal: 1
Spinda: 1
Delibird: 1
Tyrogue: 1
Hitmonlee: 0
Hitmontop: 0
Cryogonal: 0
Total: 134

Now I actually counted them up, perhaps poorly, and worked out there to be approximately 2030 Pokemon in ASB (at that time) meaning potential spinners account for.... 6.6% of ASB Pokemon. Not very much...

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Wait, NOBODY has a Hitmonlee, Top or Cryogonal?

Huh.

I agree with Lou's proposal over Tort's, I think Tort's changes the mechanic of spinning too much.

[zarator]

I support Lou's proposal too. None in their right mind would set up hazards against a Starmie or a Tomohawk anyway (save for Froslass, I guess). And the opportunity cost is pointless, as if the spinner comes in after you set up hazards (as it should be), it is still taking massive damage.

[Flamestrike]

As one of the noted abusers of hazards in big matches I 100% agree; the only change Rapid Spin needs is to remove the taking damage when spinning hazards bit.

[Tortferngatr]

Originally Posted by Fat Son_of_Shadoo

Wait, NOBODY has a Hitmonlee, Top or Cryogonal?

Huh.

I agree with Lou's proposal over Tort's, I think Tort's changes the mechanic of spinning too much.

Cryogonal is outclassed by Blissey at walling/support, by Syclant at Ice-type offense, by Cloyster as an Ice-type Rapid Spinner, and by Glaceon as a pure Ice-type.

And Necturna as 100/5 special bulk.

[Its_A_Random]

I agree with Lou's proposal. If anything, this is how it works ingame & it is far easier on referee's too. Other than that, the same reasons as everyone else as to why Lou's proposal is superior.

Originally Posted by Fat Son_of_Shadoo

Wait, NOBODY has a Hitmonlee, Top or Cryogonal?

Mrc has Hitmonlee, DA & Rodan have Cryo, & I have Hitmontop, iirc.

[Terrador]

Originally Posted by Fat Flamestrike

As one of the noted abusers of hazards in big matches I 100% agree; the only change Rapid Spin needs is to remove the taking damage when spinning hazards bit.

YES. As evidenced by my match vs Rediamond not too long ago, even with a Spinner, it's often not even worth spinning. Hazards are appropriate in strength as they are, but Lou's proposal absolutely needs to go through.

As if giving your opponent a turn to get the damn things off the field isn't annoying enough.... Also, random tidbit: subsequent layers of Spikes are inefficient bar in the largest of Switch=OK matches. Learn it.

[Son_of_Shadoo]

Clearly the census needs to be updated then. I'm willing to have a bash at that. Also, here's a reference to the match Terrador just described: Rediamond Vs. Terrador.

Oh hey 2.2k.

[Elevator Music]

Meant to make a post about this a few days ago but I was busy, but... I think the current confusion needs to be changed or clarified. This is what we currently have:

Originally Posted by Fat DAT

Confusion

When Confused, a Pokemon has a 50% chance to hurt itself in confusion (4 Base Attack power, applies the Pokemon's Attack to its Defense). Each Confusion level has a 1/3rd chance of being selected when it is inflicted. Confusion has three levels of severity. Confusion Stage lowers by 1 at the beginning of the Pokemon's action until it hits 0. When the confusion counter hits 0, the Pokemon snaps out of confusion and attacks normally.

When a Pokemon hits itself in confusion or receives 16 or more damage from a single attack, its Confusion stage is lowered to a minimum value of 1. Confusion is removed if the Pokemon is switched out.

When a Pokemon hits itself in confusion, its attack fails and it instead expends three (3) energy on a four (4) Base Attack Power, typeless self-damaging attack. The Energy Cost of the originally called move is ignored.

Intense Confusion: Lasts for four (4) actions.
Severe Confusion: Lasts for three (3) actions.
Slight Confusion: Lasts for two (2) actions

I understand the current use of 'counters' (which is basically what they are) is slightly unintuitive for Tangled Feet's sake, and have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is the "When a Pokemon hits itself in confusion or receives 16 or more damage from a single attack, its Confusion stage is lowered to a minimum value of 1" part. This meaning of this sentence is unclear at best. I personally think the value should be lowered by 1 each time you are hit in confusion (or by an attack that does 16+ damage, which could also be discussed), but the wording right now strongly implies that the value is lowered straight to 1, meaning you will snap out of confusion the next time you attack. But that's the stronger interpretation of it atm, so that's how I've been reffing it and have seen it reffed most of the time.

Like I said though, I think the value should just be lowered by 1 each time. It doesn't really boost confusion too much. You could potentially hit yourself in confusion 3 2 times at most. Realistically that's almost never going to happen though, because you'll probably be hit by a strong attack (or two) in the meantime. If people have a problem with that, I guess they could just take out Intense Confusion? It's not like there is really a difference between Intense and Severe confusion with the way things currently are now anyways.


However, if I (and a ton of other people) have just been interpreting the wording wrong and this really is the way things are, then the wording should definitely be clarified and I would be happy!

[Objection]

I think what it means is confusion stage lowers by 1, but can never go below 1. Though yes, the wording for that should be changed. If I recall correctly, the stage lowering of sleep and attraction are mentioned but not detailed at all. (EDIT: OK, the sleep one is detailed but the attraction one is not.)

Also, you'd only be able to hit yourself in confusion twice at most.

[Leethoof]

I'd like to bring up this idea I had, and it doesn't really fit in the RP thread, so I'll post it here.

The Pokemon Review Center

In this thread, users can submit reviews of their favorite pokemon, to help both newbies and veterans shopping around for new additions to their team. The review will be consisted of two parts: a "quick-look" and the in-depth explanation. The quick-look will have specific ratings on three important parts of an ASB mon: Offense, Defense, and Support, rated from a range of horrible, poor, average, good, great. The in-depth explanation would be where the author can explain the ins and outs of using the mon, its strengths and weaknesses, pointing out notable moves, etc.

Perhaps a commitee or some kind of QC/GP team for ASB could be established to ensure the quality of these reviews.

Example

Take a guess

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Bastiodon


Stats: 90 / 2 / 7 / 2 / 5 / 30
Offense: Average
Defense: Good
Support: Average

In-Depth Review:

Bastiodon, often the forgotten of the trio of rock-/steel-types, is actually a formidable Pokemon. Its offensive stats of 2/2 are pretty much terrible, but either of these can easily be boosted with a -speed nature, such as Quiet or Brave. It's offensive movepool is excellent, featuring Fire Blast, Thunder, and Blizzard on the special side, as well as EdgeQuake on the physical side, giving it virtually perfect coverage with a few MC invested into it. Its terrible stats and excellent movepool balance out to make Bastiodon fairly average offensively.

Defensively, its stellar 7/5 Stats are made worse by the fact that only has 90 HP. This may seem to be a major problem, especially with the fact of its two 4x weaknesses. However, its massive defenses (and Sturdy!) shore these up, especially with its fantastic defensive movepool. Counter and Metal Burst make your opponent wary of spamming super-effective attacks, while Wide Guard and Magnet Rise can help with earthquake and friends. It also has the standard Protect, Endure, and Substitute, which can increase Bastiodon's survivability if used smartly! Its good stats, mediocre typing, and good movepool make Bastiodon a good Pokemon defensively.

Supporting wise, Bastiodon has a few notable tricks. It has Taunt and Torment, two of the most useful moves in CAP ASB, though they are not used very well due to Bastiodon's slow speed. It also has the powerful Stealth Rocks, extremely useful in larger battles, and Roar to abuse hazards, as well as the previously mentioned Wide Guard. However, its has nothing exceptional support-wise, so it remains average in this category.

Some other tips on using Bastiodon:
- Its Dream World ability Soundproof makes it immune to Perish Song (among other things), so feel free to use Perish Song in a double battle with an ally!
- Bastiodon's immunity to poison, being mostly special-based, not minding the speed drop from paralysis, and Soundproof to give it immunity to most sleep-inducing moves make it fare very well against status abusers.
- With the combination of Taunt and Metal Burst, Bastiodon can force the opponent to attack while it sits back and reflects the damage. Be careful of Dig and negative priority combos (and the very rare slower mon), though, as Metal Burst has 0 priority!

Edit: Lou also thinks 'mon of the week' is a good idea, so we'd probably have to decide as a community which we'd rather have.

[LouisCyphre]

I'll propose what I thought Leethoof was originally talking about. Imagine, if you will, the following thread:

Thread: (Data) Mon of the Week - Volcarona

Originally Posted by Fat Douche

Mon of the Week

Review the following mon:


Volcarona
100/2/3/5/4/100

Flame Body | Swarm (DW)

Guiding Questions

1. What roles does this mon fill? Offensive, supportive, or a blend? How diverse is this mon in its playstyle?
2. What are this mon's selling points? What makes it preferable when compared to competition for the same role?
3. What are some of this mon's "must-have" moves? Which moves open up new avenues or playstyles when purchased?
4. What are some of this mon's failings? What holds it back, or makes it unsuitable for use in certain situations?
5. What counters this mon? What can this mon do to fight back against its counters?

Originally Posted by Fat Other Douche

1. I've found Volcarona to be a deceptively diverse mon. Her stats and Generation V status suggest a vanilla beatdown attacker, but a couple of key moves let her perform as a bulky tank, rain attacker, doubles or triples support, or some other more niche roles. She's certainly capable of surprising unwary foes.
2. The first things that stand out are Volcarona's stats—blistering Special Attack, above-average defenses, and comparitively high speed. Fire typing gives her powerful STABs to abuse, and access to instant recovery, possible 100/4/4 bulk, and the constant threat of burn make her a convincing defensive piece, on top of her powerful offensive presence.

Originally Posted by Fat Less Verbose Douche

1. She can attack while tanking, and can function in Sun or Rain well.
2. High SpA, powerful STABs, great bulk and speed, unique typing and helpful abilities.
3. Fire STABs, Morning Sun, Light Screen, SolarBeam, and Endure.
4. The Rock weakness is killer, stopping things from walling stuff she'd otherwise be a complete stop to.
5. Regirock is the closest thing to a guaranteed stop; high special defense and Rock STAB help bring her down, but burn is unpleasant.

I'd finish this, but you get the idea already.