LC Community Create A Team (Step 2-4)

[Corkscrew]

I have to disagree with iss about a subpunch set going nowhere. Focus Punch does a shedload of damage to the majority of mons. Also a Sub works well with Sucker Punch as it forces the opponent to attack. I'm also unsure about the best set; Whilst swords dance makes it mega powerful, it has no STAB to abuse. So I think RayJay was right that there should be a SD Baton Pass Gligar as a teammate.
@Dracoyoshi, I checked the LC Banlist before I suggested BrightPowder and it's not mentioned anywhere. The evasion clause just says moves that increase evasion, whilst the Item List only mentions Berry Juice.

Whilst Solosis is powerful, it's really not doing anything whatsoever to Murkrow. I suppose Cranidos could work as a teammate. But I can't help thinking that Priority overall is much more common this round. With the right support though, I could actually see a trick room team working.

I've also tried using Teddiursa and I just can't seem to get it to work. Maybe it's just me, I'm not exactly the best battler around. But with Croagunk pretty much everywhere, and priority becoming more common, it's not going to last very long. Especially with Toxic Orb.

I do like the suggestion of Totodile. It seems like a pretty solid choice with it's coverage and priority. I wouldn't mind seeing a CCAT around it.

So yeah, I actually like all but Teddiursa. If you're allowed to vote for your own suggestion I'm voting for Cacnea; Mainly because it has the potential to be such a powerful force, yet pretty much no-one uses it.
If not, I'll vote for Solosis, as it would be fun to get a trick room team to work in littlecup.

[Dracoyoshi8]

BrightPowder is mentioned onsite as banned under the Evasion Clause. Lax Incense is banned for the same reason. Evasion Clause applies to all tiers (aside from Street), thus both items are banned from Little Cup.

Also, I'm voting for Cacnea as well. I feel it could be a lot of fun to toy around with.

[SkyNet]

Totodile

Cute + Badass = winning!

[Ray Jay]

I'm seeing a lot of votes for Totodile, honestly there's nothing wrong with that; I'm just a little confused what it does that Tirtouga doesn't. Most people that picked Totodile didn't really back up their post, so anything they can offer would be nice. Thanks.

[San_Pellegrino]

totodile isn't weak to fighting

nuff said

edit: or ground for that matter

[Elevator Music]

Cacnea. I don't like the set posted, but the other pokes seem like balls, no offense~


and by no offense I mean I'm very skeptical of set up pokemon in general, so like totodile/teddiursa seem bad. and i've used all solosis but hey

[macle]

Those are you choices. Bold your vote, you can only vote one. Also you should probably put a reason for your vote or it wont count! I want discussion here :)

post reasoning behind your vote or I'm deleting it.

[comatthew6]

Cacnea is my choice because it can be a real bitch with all that evasion behind it. SubPunch with the ability to boost its Attack with Swords Dance can be pretty deadly, despite the fact that Gligar does this slightly better.

[Ray Jay]

Originally Posted by Fat San_Pellegrino

totodile isn't weak to fighting

nuff said

edit: or ground for that matter

I guess the question is whether or not a neutrality to Fighting-type attacks is worth sacrificing 12 base points in Attack and a secondary STAB and Shell Smash. We discussed this yesterday on IRC, and the thing was that by the time Totodile takes a hit setting up Swords Dance (it honestly doesn't force THAT much out, unlike Tirtouga, who has notable resistances to types possessed by 2 of the 3 unbanned), probably some hazard damage, and LO recoil, it's not going to be taking a Fake Out + Vacuum Wave from Croagunk anyways, so the Fighting neutrality seems pointless. I guess a completely healthy Totodile does have the upper hand against Croagunk to an extent, but the metagame's too offensive at the moment to keep one mon completely healthy in most of your games. You are completely sacrificing the ability held by Tirtouga to reliably beat Mienfoo and Scraggy with Aqua Tail and Splash Plate.

[SkyNet]

Originally Posted by Fat Ray Jay

I'm seeing a lot of votes for Totodile, honestly there's nothing wrong with that; I'm just a little confused what it does that Tirtouga doesn't. Most people that picked Totodile didn't really back up their post, so anything they can offer would be nice. Thanks.

The only thing Totodile and Tirtoga share is the water typing, Dile is the perfect sweeping partner for the baby turtle. Remember that Totodile gains access to Aerial Ace which it can use to beat Crogunk switch-ins and Superpower to beat Ferroseed and Lileep!

[Shineygengar]

Totodile because i love the fact that it can just set up and go with aqua jet. it can also revenge kill things with unboosted aqua jet. i can't think of much else to say that hasn't already been said. i also love its movepool, so i made a quick reference list.

swords dance, dragon dance, aqua jet, crunch, ice punch, superpower/brick break, rock slide, aqua tail/waterfall, flail (if you run focus sash, otherwise useless), substitute(and focus punch), shadow claw, aerial ace, dragon claw.

those are pretty much all of its usefull moves, beside the ones like dig and dive that aren't worth mentioning.

[Fireworks]

Cacnea for the simple reason that it seems the most interesting and fun to bild a team around.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat SkyNet

The only thing Totodile and Tirtoga share is the water typing, Dile is the perfect sweeping partner for the baby turtle. Remember that Totodile gains access to Aerial Ace which it can use to beat Crogunk switch-ins and Superpower to beat Ferroseed and Lileep!

This this this! I think it would be cool to build an offensive team around two underrated and similar sweepers that can beat down their common counters. Totodile it is!

[Crux]

FUCK TENNISACE :(

Totodile it is then, we will be using Raseri's set, post teammates etc.

[tennisace]

HAH.

Suggesting standard Tirtouga, though with Earthquake to deal with Croagunk. The reason for this is simple: standard Croagunk (no idea how accurate the dex is unfortunately) can't ko Tirtouga with Fake Out + Vacuum Wave without a crit! This would allow Tirtouga to easily OHKO Croagunk with EQ, allowing Totodile a chance to set up with one of its main checks gone. Still doesn't do much about Ferroseed but hey, whatcha gonna do...

Tirtouga @ Splash Plate
84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spe
Sturdy
Adamant
-Shell Smash
-Aqua Tail
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

[Corkscrew]

Unless I counted wrong, both Cacnea and Totodile have 6 votes?

EDIT:

I counted my own vote.

Fair enough, in that case I'd like to suggest Chinchou, as Totodile is going to find it difficult to get past Mantyke, Chinchou and Staryu.

The standard Eviolite set is probably the most useful:

...

---

Chinchou @ Eviolite
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 52 Def / 232 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Grass
- Substitute

[Crux]

I counted my own vote.

[Drifloon]

Tirtouga @ Splash Plate
84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spe
Sturdy
Adamant
-Shell Smash
-Aqua Tail
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

maybe hp fire over aqua tail or stone edge so totodile can sweep better late game

[Ray Jay]

Croagunk (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 212 HP / 36 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SAtk / 116 SDef
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Vacuum Wave
- Shadow Ball

Lickitung (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Wish
- Heal Bell
- Protect
- Dragon Tail

Keep in mind I am proposing both of these Pokemon be considered as potential teammates, they each have something useful but I am by no means saying we have to use both or that either is the best one out there (ie, I know I play more defensively then a lot of people do so...)

The first Pokemon is a modified SovietGunk, for those who know what that is. The basic concept is that Totodile has a consistently hard time taking faster Grass- and Electric- type attacks. The main notable thing here is that Croagunk can soak Thunderbolts from Staryu and even Chinchou if it has Drain Punch; Drain Punch replaces the typical Sucker Punch, which also makes Dark Pulse illegal (which is why Shadow Ball is used to still hit Missy). With Fake Out, Croagunk can do miniscule yet IMPORTANT damage as Gligar switches in. Notably, Totodile can reliably KO most Gligar after SR with a +2 Aqua Jet, and this is made more comfortable with some Fake Out damage.

Misdreavus is rather bulky and has Will-O-Wisp, and thus seems problematic for Totodile if it invests heavily enough to live a Crunch. Croagunk handles defensive Misdreavus pretty well, but if we pack a cleric, this is largely superfluous as SD Totodile can take out Misdreavus while weathering the burn, then have it healed off. Lickitung is probably the best option here; can also pass Wish while using Heal Bell and synergizes well with Croagunk. Its monstrous Special Defense means we don't have to watch out for stuff like Scarf Snover or Electric-type attacks if Croagunk is weak.

The final notable thing of this core would have to be the fact that Croagunk absorbs Tspikes (not too notable since we have a cleric, but Totodile still hates them late game) and all three Pokemon greatly benefit from entry hazards. If someone else wants to suggest a Pokemon for entry hazards, they greatly help Totodile (especially when you consider the fact that a lot of its switch-ins are not immune to Spikes, but whatev I know a lot of people don't like using Spikes)

[prem]

okay this is going no where. so im going to list things that can and will check totodile (not that its hard lol). also im only listing mons that i think are important. because mantyke means nothing in this metagame

eviolite mienfoo, croagunk, Chinchou, Lileep, ferroseed, staryu, exeggcute, axew, dratini, and joltik

by looking at that list, i would say lets use acrobat gligar because this team is probably going to be offensive with lo totodile and something to beat like 90% of those mons is great lol.
Gligar (F) @ Flying Gem
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 SpdJ
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Baton Pass

i say use baton pass because bronzor is something that will come in on gligar often, and being able to get totodile in without much fear at +2 is extremely useful.

[Aerrow]

Crux quit LC so Charmander is taking over this project.

[Furai]

Looking at prem's wonderful check-list, I'd like to make another suggestion: Murkrow.
Murkrow's usage is pretty low in the statistics, and with this CCAT, I believe we could have a direct impact on its usage. Murkrow is a great Pokemon to use, as it creates a lot of pressure on the opponent. The set is obviously going to be the SubRoost set, as I want to be as top-skill as possible. Plus, it's Murkrow's deadliest set;



Murkrow (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch

[Trakyan]

I'd like to suggest a bulky venonat as i believe the one mentioned was a batton passer.

Venonat @ Eviolite
Trait: Compound Eyes
EVs: 236 SDef / 196 Def / 36 HP
Nature: Careful
-Morning Sun
-Stun Spore
-Poison Fang
-Bug Bite

EVs and nature here are to maximize eviolites efficiency. Morning sun is venonats only recover and stun spore is good for paralysis which would make totodiles life easier, poison fang can poison walls that interfere with totdile and bug bite is to avoid being walled by steels or steal some oran berries. This thing also takes toxic if someone aims it at totodile while its setting up.

A swablu could work but with toto it opens an electric weakness, here is the swablu set though just in case.

Swablu @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: SDef 236 / Def 196 / HP 76
Nature: Impish
-Roost
-Substitute
-Fly
-Ominous Wind

Roost is the method of recovery while sub can block statuses aimed at it, fly acts almost like a protect in its semi invulnerable state which works well if you need to PP or status stall something, omnious wind is there for the possibility to raise the defenses. It could also use heal bell to cure totodile of any status or body slam to spread paralysis to make totodiles set up and sweep easier.

Booth those pokes are bulky and could take hits aimed at totodile (barring electric attacks in the case of swablu)

duskull and porygon could work too, booth reaching 17 and 18 in booth defensive stats respectively, natu could also work as a team mate to bounce back hazards which would wear down totodile otherwise. Porygon/duskull/venonat are probably the best defensive options for totodile since they dont share a weakness with him.

maybe a togepi with a similar spread and set to natu but with wish somewhere in there to give totodile his second wind?

by the way ray jay, having a cleric doesnt nullify toxic spikes since they poison you upon re entry into the feild, only the cleric gets to stay un poisoned that way.

[blarajan]

Hi my name is Mienfoo.



Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 156 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Payback

So what does this nig do for us? Well Totodile gets shat on by Scraggy, and does nothing to stop it from setting up. Mienfoo fixes that. With the given defensive investment, it is never OHKOed by a +1 Adamant Scraggy HJK. Since intelligent (ie: not prem) people don't run that shit, this is more a safety measure. Plus, its incredible bulk gives it outs against a lot of shit that checks Totodile, like Chinchou.

Now, other than its bulk, why are we using Mienfoo? I figured--might as well help Totodile set up, right? So here comes SubPassing. Mienfoo makes a fanfuckingtastic SubPasser due to its ability to force switches and Regenerator. Hi I'll come in on Scraggy, scare you, get up a Substitute, and then get the fuck out of there. The big reason, though, is Regenerator. For most Pokemon, if you set up a Substitute, it's crucial it remains standing. With Mienfoo, it sets it up to buffer itself from the next switch, and let you react accordingly. And even if the Substitute dies as you Baton Pass...well it's just like U-Turn, except you don't risk the hit (so it's kind of better???). Then Regenerator happens and you're at full health anyways and dgaf you wasted that Substitute. Mienfoo's relatively low speed means you will not get fucked up switching out badly, etc. The given spread will never be 2HKOed by Misdreavus at full health, but easily 2HKOes with Payback. This is important as our Totodile gets fucked by Misdreavus.

Thanks to RayJay for helping with the spread.

edit: Let's also make sure that we have playtested the sets we are recommending. We're trying to make a team that is competitively viable.

[Trakyan]

Ohh, since this isnt a DD set a hazard user would do well in insuring some KOs with aqua jet on pokes that could do a good deal of damage to totodile. How about anorithe? it can spin, set up SR and is a sweeper in its own right as well as being decently fast. Not to sure for a specific set though since we only have one member of the team and a SRer or spinner could come in later.