Balanced Hackmons

[Pwnemon]

yes, it does work the same as roar + copycat. but it has a 10% miss chance so glhf with that hax

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat Agent Gibbs

I was considering trying out Hackmons with a set like this, but I was wondering. Does Dragon Tail + Copycat work like Roar + Copycat does? If it does, I'm considering running that on Giratina, but I had a feeling that it wouldn't work since so many people run Roar/Whirlwind instead.

From what I can tell, this is illegal in game and thus will eventually become unavailable. In the meantime, feel free to use it (I personally avoid it because of issues with acc).

[Zarel*]

Originally Posted by Fat iss

True story: Hackmons came from a battle between aesoft and I. He hadn't disallowed illegal moves/abilities on ladder yet, so I 6-0ed him with Tail Glow Drought Celebi. The game's come quite far since then, but this is real.

That's not really true. Even before that, #insidescoop was talking about implementing Sharkmons in PS. I renamed it to Hackmons so what it was about was clearer in the name.

Originally Posted by Fat Imanalt

i just would like to point out that vs the top level players, contrary is very mediocre. Things like sturdy shedinja, imposter bliss and prankster spore find their way onto good teams, giving contrary pokes hell.

Substitute protects against Imposter and Prankster, and Contrary does horrible things to a lot of common sets, even good sets. I wouldn't write it off.

Originally Posted by Fat verbatim

From what I can tell, this is illegal in game and thus will eventually become unavailable. In the meantime, feel free to use it (I personally avoid it because of issues with acc).

This is true.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Agent Gibbs

I was considering trying out Hackmons with a set like this, but I was wondering. Does Dragon Tail + Copycat work like Roar + Copycat does? If it does, I'm considering running that on Giratina, but I had a feeling that it wouldn't work since so many people run Roar/Whirlwind instead.

It works the same, but Dragontail has slight accuracy problems which could be game breaking and misses out on getting shedinja on the switch. while roar misses out on hitting magic bouncers lol its all up in the air really

EDIT: Pretty much any poke with this set is deadly. Its been on every team ive made so far and always manages to turn the game around

Trait:Magic bounce
-Quiver Dance
-Recover
-Sub
-(attack move)

[Professor Science]

I was thinking about running a Metal Burst Wobbafett. The idea is that Wobbafett takes a strong hit, leaving it with 1 HP with either Sturdy or a Focus Sash, then OHKO the opponent in return with a Metal Burst. This would work because Wobbafett has almost unrivalled HP but pretty poor defenses, and almost getting OHKO'd shouldn't be a problem with Pure Power Slaking and whatnot. I was thinking of running either Sturdy with ChestoRest for possibly taking out two pokes, but Magic Bounce with Focus Sash is probably better, for a basically guaranteed KO on at least 1 pokemon. Does Metal Burst hit through Sturdy? Anyway, I really don't know what the other moves would be. Spore? Explosion? idk. Just my theorymon.

[NTT]

Hmm, there's now a new playlist simply called Hackmons. Anybody know how the two differ?

[Cobraroll]

More noobish theorymoning:

Multitype Blissey, holding a Spooky Plate. Just for the fun of people trying to hit it with Fight moves. Before the trick is revealed (when somebody uses a fight move), nobody would even think about using a Ghost move on Blissey, while extremely few Pokémon carry a Dark move as their main anti-Blissey move, so the trick isn't likely to be revealed by accident.

Or you could go for any other plates that give a better defensive typing.
On the downside, you miss out on Leftovers...

[DDRMaster]

Sort of going off of what Cobraroll posted, why don't more people use Illusion? I figure you could really mess with your opponent since even if they figure out you're using Illusion, they won't be sure which Pokemon it actually is.

[Deck Knight]

I love balanced Hackmons. Here's a few things from my factory of weirdness.

This is a lead I've been toying with. It needs a bit of help.


Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry
Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
Ability: Trace
Spore
Spikes
Taunt
Baton Pass

So the idea here is information/disruption. Basically, find out what my opponent has, then either Sleep them with a faster Spore (Prankster), set up hazards, Taunt, or Baton Pass out to see if I can get a good matchup if they switch out. I might swap out Taunt for Substitute though given the insane amount of Magic Coat users.


Registeel @ Leftovers
Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
Ability: Flash Fire
Punishment
Heart Swap
Sacred Fire
Iron Head

I initially made this as a counter to Contrary Reshiram. Registeel has fantastic bulk, and Steel + Flash Fire gives it a resistance to Dragon + Fire. Not only that, it resists Stored Power and Extremespeed, so it can usually get the drop on opposing mons using those strategies. Flash Fire also prevents it from burns since basically nothing uses Scald in hackmons, and once activated it basically has Fire STAB. Hackmons is so volatile that one action your opponent gives up can cost them a game (e.g. if Slaking gets greedy after Belly Drum and tries Sacred Fire, Registeel absorbs it, Heart Swaps the attack boost, and proceeds to crush all enemies.


Dialga @ Leftovers
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
Ability: Mold Breaker
Toxic
Quiver Dance
Dragon Pulse
Milk Drink

Pretty straightforward. Basically I looked at Dialga as a very good balance of resistances and stats, and decided it'd be a pretty epic QD Sweeper (100 HP, 120 Def, 150 SpA). Mold Breaker lets it Toxic bulky Magic Bounce mons, Dragon Pulse straight through Sturdy Shedinja. It might not be the best mon for this role, but it does at least resist ESpeed and nobody seems to use Fighting priority.

Otherwise I've made a sand team. Sandstream screws Shedinja and cuts the bulkiness of a lot of mons. I used Regirock as the SS Starter since it has the highest bulk in Sand without using an item (hi Eviolite Rhydon)

[Pwnemon]

Why would you ever use Registeel instead of Ferrothorn?

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat Pwnemon

Why would you ever use Registeel instead of Ferrothorn?

1. Registeel is bulkier, especially on the special side where it will be taking Contrary boosted Draco Meteors, Psycho Boosts, and Stored Power. 80 / 150 / 150 blows 74 / 131 / 116 out of the water.

2. Registeel can actually benefit from Heart Swapped Speed boosts. +2 Registeel hits 398 Spe, enough to outrun everything but Deoxys formes. Iron Head's 30% flinch thus becomes an infuriating game changer. Ferrothorn's +2 is a laughable 278, remember the ability isn't Prankster, so there's no priority on it.

Yeah, it's cool that Flash Fire Ferrothorn takes Groudon Nature Power EQ better and turns its 4x Fire weakness into an immunity. Unfortunately it doesn't have the bulk to do what it needs to do, and can't fully capitalize on Heart Swapped speed boosts.

[Nyktos]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

Multitype Blissey, holding a Spooky Plate. Just for the fun of people trying to hit it with Fight moves. Before the trick is revealed (when somebody uses a fight move), nobody would even think about using a Ghost move on Blissey, while extremely few Pokémon carry a Dark move as their main anti-Blissey move, so the trick isn't likely to be revealed by accident.

Or you could go for any other plates that give a better defensive typing.
On the downside, you miss out on Leftovers...

I don't know how Showdown handles it, but iirc (edit: and Bulbapedia agrees) in the real game Multitype doesn't work if you hack it onto something other than Arceus.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Professor Science

I was thinking about running a Metal Burst Wobbafett. The idea is that Wobbafett takes a strong hit, leaving it with 1 HP with either Sturdy or a Focus Sash, then OHKO the opponent in return with a Metal Burst. This would work because Wobbafett has almost unrivalled HP but pretty poor defenses, and almost getting OHKO'd shouldn't be a problem with Pure Power Slaking and whatnot. I was thinking of running either Sturdy with ChestoRest for possibly taking out two pokes, but Magic Bounce with Focus Sash is probably better, for a basically guaranteed KO on at least 1 pokemon. Does Metal Burst hit through Sturdy? Anyway, I really don't know what the other moves would be. Spore? Explosion? idk. Just my theorymon.

Ive seen a set like that but better. With Blissey. I believe the set was

Blissey @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
-Cotton Guard
-Metal Burst
-SoftBoiled
-Taunt

That set was extremely frustrating to deal with. Massive HP meant that almost any small hit on blissey meant a large hit on the opponent with metal burst. After 1 cotton guard not even pure power slaking could stand up to blissey. Of course though this set is beat by almost any magic bounce set up user

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat NTT

Hmm, there's now a new playlist simply called Hackmons. Anybody know how the two differ?

In Hackmons (technically Pure Hackmons) Wonderguard and OHKO moves are legal. The two are entirely different metagames and I recommend you give them both a shot.

[megados]

im surprised nobody is using a slow start pokemon that has skill swap. it would cripple pretty good and in turn gain a very good ability

[BurningMan]

Originally Posted by Fat megados

im surprised nobody is using a slow start pokemon that has skill swap. it would cripple pretty good and in turn gain a very good ability

Because the opponent can just switch out and gets back its normal ability while you're stuck with a random ability that might not benefit you as much as you want it to.

[NTT]

Originally Posted by Fat megados

im surprised nobody is using a slow start pokemon that has skill swap. it would cripple pretty good and in turn gain a very good ability

^^^What BurningMan said, plus there's Mold Breaker+Spore which will screw things up infinitely more without having to use an initially handicapped Poke.

[Toa Tahu]

I'm curious. How would a Final Gambit abuse team work? Run 4-5 mons with something like this:
x@Chesto Berry
Jolly, Multiscale
Final Gambit, Bullet Seed, filler, filler
And CB Slaking.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Toa Tahu

I'm curious. How would a Final Gambit abuse team work? Run 4-5 mons with something like this:
x@Chesto Berry
Jolly, Multiscale
Final Gambit, Bullet Seed, filler, filler
And CB Slaking.

After reading this I quickly just threw together a random team full of blisseys and Giratina's with the CB slaking at the end. and it did surprisingly well. No one saw it coming and by the time they did it was too late. BUT in one battle I saw a bug in the move and Generation changes that affect the move

1. You are killed if they switch in a ghost type. Its supposed to fail if the opponent is immune to final gambit.
2. Sash is supposed to break regardless. I used it on someone with a sash and the sash was still in tact.
3. Just looked up that in Gen. V Magic Coat can now reflect back foresight. Since Magic Coat and Bounce reflect the same things, Magic Bounce Giratina is a complete counter to this style.
4. Havent tried on shedinja with sturdy yet. I had a random weather inducer on there so didnt really worry about shedinja yet. Im curious though if it will break through sturdy or not. Since it didnt break through sash I dont think itll be any different

Its probably good to have on 1 blissey on your team for the surprise factor but a whole team wouldnt be advisable. I won a couple of games against those that didnt have a giratina, but once ppl saw it once the strategy was completely ruined.

[alexwolf]

Golurk @ Lum Berry
Max evs on everything, Adamant nature
Ability: Prankster
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Nature Power
- Ice Shard

Use Belly Drum against anything that tries to Spore you. After the berry is consumed use Sub to prevent the second Spore, and go to town sweeping with priority EQ and Ice Shard. Golurk is chosen over any other Ground type because it cannot be revenge killed by ES users like Slaking after the Sub is broken. And Golurk has a pretty healthy Atk stat of 124 already so at +6 everything dies regerdless.

This set should be better used with sandstorm support to get rid of Shedinja (stall 1 turn with priority sub and then he dies) and something that is immune/resists the ground/ice combo just in case you don't manage to set-up a sub and Imposter Blissey gets your boosts. Levitate Heatran is one of the best options as it takes nothing from Ice Shard and is immune to EQ, while also being immune to sand damage. As a bonus it can also ohko Shedinja with Magma Storm!

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

Golurk @ Lum Berry
Max evs on everything, Adamant nature
Ability: Prankster
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Nature Power
- Ice Shard

Use Belly Drum against anything that tries to Spore you. After the berry is consumed use Sub to prevent the second Spore, and go to town sweeping with priority EQ and Ice Shard. Golurk is chosen over any other Ground type because it cannot be revenge killed by ES users like Slaking after the Sub is broken. And Golurk has a pretty healthy Atk stat of 124 already so at +6 everything dies regerdless.

This set should be better used with sandstorm support to get rid of Shedinja (stall 1 turn with priority sub and then he dies) and something that is immune/resists the ground/ice combo just in case you don't manage to set-up a sub and Imposter Blissey gets your boosts. Levitate Heatran is one of the best options as it takes nothing from Ice Shard and is immune to EQ, while also being immune to sand damage. As a bonus it can also ohko Shedinja with Magma Storm!

This looks very interesting, however I see one (fixable) weakness. Insofar as using Substitute to block the second spore, the main user of Spore in Balanced Hackmons is Giratina, who (also having Prankster) will outspeed your sub. Unfortunately Golurk at +6 has no way of outspeeding the Spore and killing (closest is 77.38 - 90.87% from Shadow Sneak). For this reason, I recommend switching out Substitute for something else (running Magic Coat, or even trying to fight Giratina with Belly Drum is a bad idea with the recent increase in Restalk Dragon Tail Giratina's that will essentially remove Golurk from the fight in one hit).

[Arcticblast]

So I'm trying to create a Pokemon that will counter all stat boosters. This is what I had:

Spiritomb @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
Impish Nature
- Crunch
- Drain Punch
- Haze
- Magic Coat

Haze is to remove the Pokemon's boosts, either PP stalling them or ruining Baton Pass. Unfortunately, it's laughably weak and still can't take some strong attacks. Any suggestions?

[bluemon]

i liked the idea, but why spiritomb?

sure it has no weaknesses, but its stats arent that great.
i would use something like deoxys-d or LOL shuckle (although neither has much offensive presence). porygon 2 is also a good choice.

the regis might actually work, and i think the key is finding a poke that resists fire+fighting since a lot of contrary users use vcrate and superpower/close combat.

jellicent with unaware sounds particularly fun too.

you might also want to try night shade/ seismic toss.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Arcticblast

So I'm trying to create a Pokemon that will counter all stat boosters. This is what I had:

Spiritomb @ Lum Berry
Trait: Unaware
Impish Nature
- Crunch
- Drain Punch
- Haze
- Magic Coat

Haze is to remove the Pokemon's boosts, either PP stalling them or ruining Baton Pass. Unfortunately, it's laughably weak and still can't take some strong attacks. Any suggestions?

The only thing that thing has other pokes is that fact that its not weak slaking, who stil will come out on top. With a weak attack it may not even hurt slaking with drain punch. But I would change haze to Heart Swap, and change drain punch with a recovery move.

[Omnigross266]

Two quick questions:

Q1. In Pure Hackmons, is WonderTomb/WonderEye legal?
Q2. Does No Guard Make OHKO mover 100% accurate ?