Balanced Hackmons

[bluemon]

wonderguard and OHKO moves are illegal

[Groudon ex]

Regigigas @ Lum Berry
Trait: Pure Power
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Extremespeed
- Shadow Claw

This is definitely my favourite sweeper in the metagame at the moment. Substitute is basically mandatory for any setup sweeper in this metagame to deny revenge kills by Blissey. Combined with Toxic Spikes support, it can quite easily deal with things that bother it such as Heart Swap Arceus and Shedinja. I'm running Jolly nature to get the jump on rival Regigigas/Slaking who run Adamant nature.

[AasTmO]

@Omnigross, in Pure Hackmons, I believe they are. This is the balanced hackmons though. And at Q2: Yes, they do.

[zyrefredric]

There are so many things I'm dying to try out right now, but I can't seem to connect to Pokemon Showdown.

It just says: "If the client is taking a long time to load, try refreshing in a few minutes. If it still doesn't work, Pokemon Showdown may be down for maintenance. "

then "Could not connect to Showdown server at novawave.ca:8000. You may have mistyped the address, or the server may be down for maintenance. We apologize for the inconvenience."

Is it really down for maintenance? That's the same thing that it said since 2 days ago.

[malomyotismon]

Mewtwo@white herb
Simple
252hp 252 speed 6 special attack
timid
psyshock
aura sphere
ice beam/thunder(bolt)/flamethrower
Shell smash

Simples, I do not know much about ubers but the idea of mewtwo getting a 3+ speed and special attack boost is scary. The eves need adjusting but the principle is simple and heck it's ubers so it's hard to make something that is not already broken.


Typhlosion@life orb
sheer force
252 sp attack 252 speed
timid
fire blast
thunderbolt
hidden power (ice)/focus blast/aura sphere
quiver dance

lets face it thyphlosion is not going to learn an ice move so hp ice will do fine, he already is capable of generating lightning with his fur, yet dose not learn thunderbolt. Quiver dance is his salvation, even now quiver dance would boost Tye up into a solid uu contender, with his pitiful move pool holding him back. Give him one extra coverage move we have a real contender for volcanora in ou, lack of a 4x Sr weakness for just one, sheer force can give him the power of volcanora in thunderbolt and fire blast or flamethrow but the reliance on a hidden power which will not boosted by sheer force will hold him back.

[Tetrinity]

This is Hackmons, you can max out all EVs. And why HP Ice on Typhlosion when you could give it Ice Beam/Blizzard? For that matter, why Typhlosion at all? His stats aren't exactly the greatest out there, or his typing... mono-Fire STAB isn't doing all that much. Pretty nice looking Mewtwo set, though I would probably suggest Substitute over something to prevent a Blissey revenge kill.

Anyway, this metagame looks ridiculously fun. Might have to give it a try some time. :D

[windwolf777]

Why not infernape ? Higher attacking statsand speed.

[malomyotismon]

Originally Posted by Fat Tetrinity

This is Hackmons, you can max out all EVs. And why HP Ice on Typhlosion when you could give it Ice Beam/Blizzard? For that matter, why Typhlosion at all? His stats aren't exactly the greatest out there, or his typing... mono-Fire STAB isn't doing all that much. Pretty nice looking Mewtwo set, though I would probably suggest Substitute over something to prevent a Blissey revenge kill.

Anyway, this metagame looks ridiculously fun. Might have to give it a try some time. :D

It is because thyphlosion sucks atm, we may as well make a balanced hackmon for poor typhlosion to give him a saving grace set that's not too far fetched.

As for mewtwo, he should be able to at least 2ko blissey after a boost, maybe max his special attack out for a would be ohko, idk i'd have to do the math.

how about i save shaymin?

Shaymin@life orb
magic guard
252 speed and sp attack/ maxed
timid
Quiver dance
Flamethrower/earth power
Ice beam/earth power
Seed flare

[AasTmO]

I'm not playing this thing so I can theorymon the shit out of it:
- Final Gambit Blissey?
- Rain teams sporting some Rain Dish/ Swift Swim / Hydration stuffs?
- Random Rocky Helmets? (yea f u sheddy)
- Drizzle Water Spout Palkia? (Double STAB 150 base power attack coming off base 150 SpA? Sure, why not!)
In a similar vein,
- Drought Overheat Specs Reshiram?
- Hydration Sheddy in the rain? (bound to net you one free turn sooner than later)

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat malomyotismon

It is because thyphlosion sucks atm, we may as well make a balanced hackmon for poor typhlosion to give him a saving grace set that's not too far fetched.

As for mewtwo, he should be able to at least 2ko blissey after a boost, maybe max his special attack out for a would be ohko, idk i'd have to do the math.

how about i save shaymin?

Shaymin@life orb
magic guard
252 speed and sp attack/ maxed
timid
Quiver dance
Flamethrower/earth power
Ice beam/earth power
Seed flare

He's talking about blissey running imposter. Almost every blissey runs imposter now-a-days. Way more bulkier means that it will KO you before you can KO it.

For the typhlosion and Shaymin set. While I love the idea of using Underused/NEVER USED threats it really cant be helped in this metagame. Your gonna see pokemon that consist of
-Slaking/Regigigas+Pure Power+Extreme Speed
-Giratina/Lugia with prankster/magic guard
-Mewtwos/any uber special sweeper with Contrary
-Blissey with imposter
-Maybe a couple of illusion pokes
-Unaware pokes with heart swap
-Prankster with heart swap
-Sub/QuiverDance/recovery move/ Filler Attack move sets
-Shedinja with sturdy(which is slowly losing its popularity)
-and maybe some random creative set
lol anything else I'm missing.
Idk if shaymin nor typhlosion can stand up at all to these threats, actually any of these threats. The mewtwo set however is very creative and can possibily work. As Terinity said you would definitly wanna add Sub on there to stop imposter blissey and add a lum berry since having defense in this metagame doesnt really matter anyways. Slaking/regigigas OHKOS you with or without the drop.


Mewtwo@ Lum Berry
Trait: Simple
Nature: Modest
psystrike
Sub
ice beam/thunder(bolt)/flamethrower
Shell smash

Originally Posted by Fat AasTmO

I'm not playing this thing so I can theorymon the shit out of it:
- Final Gambit Blissey?Tried it out and yes it works! But only use 1 on a team though
- Rain teams sporting some Rain Dish/ Swift Swim / Hydration stuffs?yes that work
- Random Rocky Helmets? (yea f u sheddy)yes that works
- Drizzle Water Spout Palkia? (Double STAB 150 base power attack coming off base 150 SpA? Sure, why not!)Faced one and it was overkill lol
In a similar vein,
- Drought Overheat Specs Reshiram? Drought on another poke, and add contrary to reshiram
- Hydration Sheddy in the rain? (bound to net you one free turn sooner than later)The whole point of sheddy is sturdy. Take that away is like taking superman's powers away :/

[DDRMaster]

The problem with Hydration Shedinja is that it's pretty much useless after your opponent finds out you don't have Sturdy. They'll just hit it with any attack it isn't immune to and it won't be able to switch in on attacks like it normally would. Hydration also activates at the end of the turn, so if your opponent is faster and Spores you, you still won't get to act in that turn. The other ones sound cool, though.

[Tetrinity]

Originally Posted by Fat jamashawalker

He's talking about blissey running imposter. Almost every blissey runs imposter now-a-days. Way more bulkier means that it will KO you before you can KO it.

This, though I'm female ;) Imposter scarfed Blissey basically has twice the bulk of any setup sweeper and an extra +1 to speed. If you've been boosting attacking stats, you're screwed unless you have a way to block the attack, which is where Sturdy Shedinja comes into play. If you've been boosting defensive stats... well, you'd better have a phazer or something immune to the move it picks, because otherwise that Blissey ain't going anywhere until it's out of PP.

The idea of running Shedinja without Sturdy is an interesting one... people expect it so much that they might not even try to attack. But then, what might you replace it with? Magic Guard comes to mind, preventing KOs from indirect damage instead, but you lose the ease of switching in plus one round of Sandstorm and the jig is up. Though it might be amusing, if somewhat gimmicky, to run two Shedinja, one with Sturdy and one with Magic Guard... heh.

[AasTmO]

Lemme try one more: Flash Fire Dialga? Allows him to tank most of the Contrary pokemon for a second.. And yeah, Hydrinja wasn't the best thought out pokemon.

[fade5]

Drizzle Water Spout Palkia? (Double STAB 150 base power attack coming off base 150 SpA? Sure, why not!)

Even better would be Swift Swim Water Spout Palkia with Drizzle Support.
I've actually used Water Spout Kingdra+ Drizzle Politoed in Battle Subway Doubles (yes, it's just as cheap as it sounds); it's terrifying how much power Water Spout Kingdra has, I can only imagine what Palkia could do since it's basically Kingdra on steroids.

[Imanalt]

Originally Posted by Fat AasTmO

Lemme try one more: Flash Fire Dialga? Allows him to tank most of the Contrary pokemon for a second..

Contrary pokemon are rare when laying good opposition, and not really a significant threat until very late game vs a good team

Water spout + specs palkia wouldnt work very well (i tried it ;) Water spout doesnt do enough even with modest nature in rain (38.9% - 45.8% to giratina)

Now running that swift swim + tail glow + water spout might be interesting, but slaking espeeds would do enough to make water spout mediocre.

[NTT]

That's an interesting question actually, which viable Pokemon/Attack combination has the largest immediate damage output? I'd hazard a guess at Pure Power Ho-oh with V Create in the sun. Not necessarily an effective 'mon, but I expect it would rip virtually anything apart.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat NTT

That's an interesting question actually, which viable Pokemon/Attack combination has the largest immediate damage output? I'd hazard a guess at Pure Power Ho-oh with V Create in the sun. Not necessarily an effective 'mon, but I expect it would rip virtually anything apart.

Change that to Darminatan and yep you got the highest damage output in the game. The Sun,STAB+180 base power move, and pure power allows it to be better higher than any other special attacker and slaking. lol im gonna try that for overkill...

Since smogon's damage calc cant calc for darminatin I did it for Ho-oh. All done with Adamant+pure power+Sun- V-create

Choice Band vs Giratina- 76.3% - 89.9%
Choice Scarf vs Giratina- 50.7% - 59.8%

Choice Scarf vs Lugia- 127.2% - 150%

I'm defintely gonna be running rampant with choice scarf lol over kill!! Not even blissey can 100% revenge kill you. The question is though between Ho-oh or daminatan. Slaking cant OHKO with Espeed to Ho-oh..only doing 68% - 80.3%. While it can OHKO darminatan. However Darminatan is slightly stronger and can switch into the majority of pokes that got a +1 speed boost from quiver dance and outspeed them.

[Cobraroll]

Originally Posted by Fat NTT

That's an interesting question actually, which viable Pokemon/Attack combination has the largest immediate damage output? I'd hazard a guess at Pure Power Ho-oh with V Create in the sun. Not necessarily an effective 'mon, but I expect it would rip virtually anything apart.

Pure Power Slaking with Choiced Explosion, I think. As you said, not necessarily effective, but...

[Imanalt]

Originally Posted by Fat jamashawalker

Change that to Darminatan and yep you got the highest damage output in the game. The Sun,STAB+180 base power move, and pure power allows it to be better higher than any other special attacker and slaking. lol im gonna try that for overkill...

Since smogon's damage calc cant calc for darminatin I did it for Ho-oh. All done with Adamant+pure power+Sun- V-create

Choice Band vs Giratina- 76.3% - 89.9%
Choice Scarf vs Giratina- 50.7% - 59.8%

Choice Scarf vs Lugia- 127.2% - 150%

I'm defintely gonna be running rampant with choice scarf lol over kill!! Not even blissey can 100% revenge kill you. The question is though between Ho-oh or daminatan. Slaking cant OHKO with Espeed to Ho-oh..only doing 68% - 80.3%. While it can OHKO darminatan. However Darminatan is slightly stronger and can switch into the majority of pokes that got a +1 speed boost from quiver dance and outspeed them.

I think you may have forgotten something in your calc's, as by my calc 252 adamant CB vcreate from 140 base attack to 252/252 +def nature giratina in sun does 48% - 56.5%

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

Pure Power Slaking with Choiced Explosion, I think. As you said, not necessarily effective, but...

Sun Boosted V-Create actually has a higher Base Power but Slaking will do slightly more damage thanks to its higher Atk.

[jamashawalker]

Originally Posted by Fat Imanalt

I think you may have forgotten something in your calc's, as by my calc 252 adamant CB vcreate from 140 base attack to 252/252 +def nature giratina in sun does 48% - 56.5%

Did you add Pure Power ability to the mix and how were you able to come up with a 140 base power Fire pokemon? I just did the calc w/o pure power and came up with about the same answer. Also weird I just did the calc again with pure power and it said it was a OHKO on 252/252 giratina. O_o

[verbatim]

Originally Posted by Fat NTT

That's an interesting question actually, which viable Pokemon/Attack combination has the largest immediate damage output? I'd hazard a guess at Pure Power Ho-oh with V Create in the sun. Not necessarily an effective 'mon, but I expect it would rip virtually anything apart.

Unfortunately thats not enough to OHKO Giratina, you deal 60.71 - 71.62% in the sun with a Pure Power sun boosted V-Create. If you REALLY want to score the kill on Giratina you could run an attack boosting nature and a Choice Band (netting you 100 - 117.85%) but then you'll be and revenge killed by the majority of the tier.

[AasTmO]

252 jolly CS Pure Power sun boosted V-Create should do the trick for most intents and purposes, right?

[moonbound]

It's somewhat disappointing that this got 4 pages long before someone mentioned that marowak gets priority stab earthquake (when using prankster nature power) coming off 568 attack without life orb recoil or being locked with a choice item.

[bluemon]

Originally Posted by Fat moonbound

It's somewhat disappointing that this got 4 pages long before someone mentioned that marowak gets priority stab earthquake (when using prankster nature power) coming off 568 attack without life orb recoil or being locked with a choice item.

i tried that but its very underwhelming.

slaking is stronger with pure power and extremespeed. and an extra priority level to.