Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 (DS, June in JP, Fall in EU/NA/AU) - Updated May 12th

[ElectivireRocks]

Ice is a bad defensive type and Dragon is a good defensive type, how exactly is their combination "horrible"? It's mediocre at worst.

I find really annoying how even the pokemon analyses on the site use completely arbitrary and inconsistent ways to describe a pokemon's typing.

[StallMandibuzz]

Ice's crippling weakness to Fighting and Rock moves, weakness to the ever-so-common Stealth Rock, and the fact that it only resists itself.

[Aeromence]

alright, i think the ability overdrive on kyurem is only available on bw2, which will mean that freeze shock / ice burn take 0 turns to charge, and both those moves have the secret secondary effect to change kyurems form. thats my theory

[satchmo]

It'd be funny if they gave Kyurem Zen Mode to change forms.

[DDRMaster]

Originally Posted by Fat StallMandibuzz

Agreed, Blue. I doubt they'll give us a Poison Typed Legendary, since they always have to give us 3-4 Psychic Legendaries and 3-4 Dragon Legendaries each Gen.

There's nothing saying we couldn't have a Dragon/Poison komodo dragon legendary.

Also, the reason Dragon/Ice is so bad is that Ice is only useful as an offensive type, but Dragon and Ice get redundant coverage (both SE against Dragons and resisted by Steel). Ice just gives a bad weakness to SR and makes it so that Steel-types are an even better counter to it. They resist both of Kyurem's STAB moves and have a STAB SE attack (with priority on many of them thanks to Bullet Punch) that will take a sizable chunk out of Kyurem, if not immediately KOing it.

Poison doesn't really need to hit anything else SE. Its useful resistances, only two weaknesses, and immunity to Toxic already make it a good defensive type. What Poison needs is more moves like Acid Spray or Clear Smog and better versions of Poison Fang so they can lower the opponent's stats and Toxic them through Taunt. Many walls would kill for a way to do that.

[ElectivireRocks]

The whole "Dragon + Ice = redundant" argument doesn't work because Dragon doesn't hit Ground, Grass and Flying (very common types) for SE damage like Ice does, plus Ice Beam is a lot more reliable than Draco Meteor and Outrage.

By this definition, Fire and Bug are redundant attacking types as well but Volcarona does just fine even though it lacks a way to safely deal with opposing Fire types (lol HP ground, and Hurricane is unreliable if the opponent has Ninetales).

The Ice typing gives Kyurem a big advantage over most dragons and that's the ice neutrality, something no other OU dragon has.

[DDRMaster]

Kyurem's Dragon STABs already maim Ground, Flying, and Grass-types unless they invest a large amount in Defenses. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Steelix are exceptions to this, due to their Steel-typing. However, HP Fire will hit all of them harder than Ice Beam.

Volcarona's completely different because its Bug STAB allows it to hit most Water-types neutrally as well as hitting Lati@s and Tyranitar SE. These are very common counters to most Fire-types that are immediately reduced to being checks because of Volcarona's STAB Bug attacks. Kyurem doesn't have this advantage because Ice Beam and Blizzard hit very few Steel-types much harder than a Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Fat ElectivireRocks

The whole "Dragon + Ice = redundant" argument doesn't work because Dragon doesn't hit Ground, Grass and Flying (very common types) for SE damage like Ice does, plus Ice Beam is a lot more reliable than Draco Meteor and Outrage.

By this definition, Fire and Bug are redundant attacking types as well but Volcarona does just fine even though it lacks a way to safely deal with opposing Fire types (lol HP ground, and Hurricane is unreliable if the opponent has Ninetales).

The Ice typing gives Kyurem a big advantage over most dragons and that's the ice neutrality, something no other OU dragon has.

Dragons have access to Draco Meteor, meaning those Ground-types and Flying-types (especially with Stealth Rock) are likely to be 2HKOed if not OHKOed. With STAB, your super effective Ice Beam is hitting for roughly just 40% more than 240% with what Draco Meteor could do to Grass-types.

Fighting / Fire is ideally Dragon's most practical, secondary type. Add Dragon Pulse just gives you the accuracy when trying to hit all other types for at least neutral damage.

What's tempting is the Ice-typing promotes Hail control because traditionally your Special Attack is high enough to spam Blizzard as well as Draco Meteors / Focus Blast.

[Cobraroll]

Originally Posted by Fat Aeromence

alright, i think the ability overdrive on kyurem is only available on bw2, which will mean that freeze shock / ice burn take 0 turns to charge, and both those moves have the secret secondary effect to change kyurems form. thats my theory

I see one major hole in your reasoning here:

If, and this is pretty likely, Freeze Shock and Ice Burn are Kyurem-exclusive moves, then why would GameFreak want to make them with a charge-up turn, only for the only Pokémon to learn them to negate it with its ability? It's like giving recoil to a move that can only be learned by Pokémon with Rock Head, only worse, 'cause Freeze Shock and Ice Burn can't even be chosen by Metronome. Why would they go to such great lengths to troll Smeargle?
Negating the charge turn is a fool's dream, I think.

Also, why do people think a new ability will be introduced mid-gen? It essentially screws over backwards compability (abilities can't be changed, meaning that Overdrive Kuyrem couldn't even be hooked up to a B/W1 game). Deoxys, Shaymin, Giratina and Rotom change formes without using abilities, and, lo and behold, they are all always backwards-compatible to their games of origin.

[Prophet]

Are some of you still expecting Hoenn in B2W2?

*Laughs*

no.

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat Prophet

Are some of you still expecting Hoenn in B2W2?

*Laughs*

no.

Ah well. At least this means that, when GameFreak does get around to making Hoenn remakes, they'll be more fleshed out than if they had gone with putting Hoenn in B2W2.

[chunx93]

I wonder how they will make game play interesting even though there will be most likely the same starters. I mean the games would be boring if you used the same starters :(
hoen starters would be pretty cool but not likely to happen

[Firestorm]

Something I uncovered while looking around the GBU site during the International Challenge:

※The Pokémon Global Link will undergo a redesign to correspond with the Japanese release of Pokémon Black Version 2 and Pokémon White Version 2 in June of 2012. Due to the work involved in the renewal, the site will go offline temporarily. Season 5 will continue up until the site is brought offline. Further details about the schedule of the redesign will be announced on the Pokémon Global Link, as well as on the official Pokémon website.

Hopefully this means they'll be fixing up some of the issues with GBU. Well, by issues I really just mean issue which is not being able to figure out who disconnected.

[TheWalrus9]

Originally Posted by Fat chunx93

I wonder how they will make game play interesting even though there will be most likely the same starters. I mean the games would be boring if you used the same starters :(

wouldn't be any different than crystal and emerald. slight twists to the storyline here and there, but overall same starters and same available pokemon. so far they've been interesting enough deviations to warrant a playthrough, and if the new features they implement in the dream world require a BW2 upgrade, that will also be added incentive.

[Rayquaza_]

It would be interesting if we played as N and his starter was Reshiram in White 2 and Zekrom in Black 2.
It would also be a nice touch if said starter was level 52 just like the final battle in B/W 1.

No, I'm not joking, it would be a very smart move that would please the fans to no end. Who plays as a girl character anyway?

[Cobraroll]

^Most of the girls who play this game, I guess. You know, kids aged 4-10 make up about 90% of the game sales, and a fair chunk of them are girls.

Also, starting at lvl 52, with a legendary Pokémon? Not. Going. To. Happen. Mark my words. Same goes for:
- Playing as N (the topic is absolutely crammed with reasons why)
- Importing B/W1 game saves from the start (As this would throw game balance out of the window if you don't have B/W1)
- New abilities (backwards compability)
- Triple typing (Would require a fundamental change in game mechanics, backwards compability)
- New moves (See above)
- Entirely new Pokémon (See above)
- Changes to existing types' properties (See above)

Use common sense, people. Remember that the games, as using the current formula, have sold hundreds of millions of games over the course of 16 years. They will not jeopardize the potential sales by radically changing formula for a main series game. Half the fun with Pokémon games is trading or battling with friends, so the won't sacrifize backwards compability mid-generation.
The main character is also given as little back story as possible, and this is intentional. The player is supposed to picture him-/herself in the lead role. Come on, find me one Pokémon game where the story of the main character goes beyond a couple of hints of his/her immediate past (Colosseum) or some vague mention of "You've lived here all your life" or "You're new to the area" (every game ever). Lately, the games don't even suggest a name for your character. N's backstory is far too extensive for him to be used as a player character. He will most likely be in the storyline, but not as a playable character.

[blasphemy1]

Actually changes to existing types' properties and new Pokemon aren't completely out of the question. As far as backwards compatibility, the new games could serve as host of the information and translate it to information Black and White could understand.

[UltiMario]

It's possible with stuff like Move Base Power/Acc, Stats, and POSSIBLY Type Match-ups, but something like changing things to Triple Type (which would completely change the damage forumla, even for double type mons) and New abilities are out of the question, and new forms will likely not be usable over Wifi, like Gen IV, unfortunately (not until Pokemon Stadium/PBR BW, anyways).

[Dark Arceus]

Originally Posted by Fat Cobraroll

^Most of the girls who play this game, I guess. You know, kids aged 4-10 make up about 90% of the game sales, and a fair chunk of them are girls.

Also, starting at lvl 52, with a legendary Pokémon? Not. Going. To. Happen. Mark my words. Same goes for:
- Playing as N (the topic is absolutely crammed with reasons why)
- Importing B/W1 game saves from the start (As this would throw game balance out of the window if you don't have B/W1)
- New abilities (backwards compability)
- Triple typing (Would require a fundamental change in game mechanics, backwards compability)
- New moves (See above)
- Entirely new Pokémon (See above)
- Changes to existing types' properties (See above)

Use common sense, people. Remember that the games, as using the current formula, have sold hundreds of millions of games over the course of 16 years. They will not jeopardize the potential sales by radically changing formula for a main series game. Half the fun with Pokémon games is trading or battling with friends, so the won't sacrifize backwards compability mid-generation.
The main character is also given as little back story as possible, and this is intentional. The player is supposed to picture him-/herself in the lead role. Come on, find me one Pokémon game where the story of the main character goes beyond a couple of hints of his/her immediate past (Colosseum) or some vague mention of "You've lived here all your life" or "You're new to the area" (every game ever). Lately, the games don't even suggest a name for your character. N's backstory is far too extensive for him to be used as a player character. He will most likely be in the storyline, but not as a playable character.

OMG someone else with a brain. After reading all of the above mentioned everywhere like people know it will happen and by people that think it will happen is really, really annoying. I would bet all the Pokemon I just rng'd in Diamond that none of the above will happen. At most maybe some small accuracy/basepower tweeks. I don't get how people can't comprehend how we aren't getting any major changes like the ones listed in the quote.

Originally Posted by Fat blasphemy1

Actually changes to existing types' properties and new Pokemon aren't completely out of the question. As far as backwards compatibility, the new games could serve as host of the information and translate it to information Black and White could understand.

Unless they have B2/W2 have backwards compatibility where they change the Pokemon to match what was available in black and white originals, it just wouldn't work. One of pokemons bases, as stated in an interview with the makers of pokemon, is the backwards compatibility between most versions. I highly doubt they would start a new or anything in b2/w2. To majorly change the game would make it incompatible with bw1 and ruin one of the main goals with pokemon.

[Miscellaneous]

Apart from cleaning up aspects of the intergame coding (which they should do already because it sucks) I hope these games actually add something to Gen V.

All I can gather so far is that they introduce a few new forms of Kyurem, although Ice/Fire and Ice/Electric both have some interesting ramifications it hardly warrants buying a new game. A few Japanese websites have hinted that the games will use DSi enhancements. I'm sure there will be new move tutors/ perhaps TMs and such. However, as the games must be interactive with B/W they can't introduce anything new outside of that specific game (i.e. they can't change anything about battle mechanics other than expanding movepools).

I'm quite annoyed really. The publishers really are pushing the whole "milking" stage too far. I'm sure B/W #2 will be distinct enough from B/W #1 to give people a reason to buy them also, however I'm also certain that B/W # 2 will be different from each other to give a reason for people to buy both also. Basically; to get the most out of Gen V and to have every available options in the game mechanics you're going to have to buy 4 games. And then they're probably going to remake R/S/E (2 games probably), I'm sure buying 6 games for one generation is a bit too much to ask even for the most dedicated fan.

/rant.

[blasphemy1]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Arceus

Unless they have B2/W2 have backwards compatibility where they change the Pokemon to match what was available in black and white originals, it just wouldn't work. One of pokemons bases, as stated in an interview with the makers of pokemon, is the backwards compatibility between most versions. I highly doubt they would start a new or anything in b2/w2. To majorly change the game would make it incompatible with bw1 and ruin one of the main goals with pokemon.

It would certainly alienate the Black and White owners, but it's in the realm of possibility. Really the concern I had was type match-ups, which is within the constraints of what they can do while still providing backwards compatibility. Someone said Game Freak won't do that again, though.

I expect more mechanic changes to areas outside of battling. Things like partner Pokemon from HGSS, battle frontier, new breeding and EV mechanics, berries, non-Unova wild Pokemon present during main story, new forms, bigger distinctions between seasons, gym leader roster and gym design changes, and possibly the musketeers playing a larger role in the storyline seem plausible and welcomed imo.

[RBG*]

https://www.facebook.com/questions/10150694714917390/

Y'all should vote in the Facebook Question on the Smogon Facebook Page ^_^!

[Arcticblast]

Originally Posted by Fat UltiMario

It's possible with stuff like Move Base Power/Acc, Stats, and POSSIBLY Type Match-ups, but something like changing things to Triple Type (which would completely change the damage forumla, even for double type mons) and New abilities are out of the question, and new forms will likely not be usable over Wifi, like Gen IV, unfortunately (not until Pokemon Stadium/PBR BW, anyways).

This is the only thing remotely battle-related that I can see happening. Anything else would either interfere with backwards compatibility (new anything, basically) or alienate old players (updated type matchups).

Originally Posted by Fat Miscellaneous

I'm quite annoyed really. The publishers really are pushing the whole "milking" stage too far. <snip> I'm sure buying 6 games for one generation is a bit too much to ask even for the most dedicated fan.

So what if they're milking it? Why not milk it? I've already bought more than 6 anyway. Makes me want to play Mystery Dungeon some more... but I'm going off on a tangent.

Originally Posted by Fat blasphemy1

I expect more mechanic changes to areas outside of battling. Things like partner Pokemon from HGSS, battle frontier, new breeding and EV mechanics, berries, non-Unova wild Pokemon present during main story, new forms, bigger distinctions between seasons, gym leader roster and gym design changes, and possibly the musketeers playing a larger role in the storyline seem plausible and welcomed imo.

Fixed. I hope they don't go too far with new forms though, two (four?) new forms for one Pokemon is a bit much (shut up Rotom) so...

[Katakiri]

Well BW has a half-way decent DLC system in the Pokemon Global Link.
They might just pull it off with something like the 3rd Gen Berry Patch. I wouldn't think it would be horribly difficult to put an "if gate" on altered attacks & abilities (see 4th Gen Hypnosis) that would redirect to the downloaded updated BW2 mechanics if the other player is using BW2 but keep them the same against 2 BW players.

New abilities just depends on what empty slot data there is for Abilities and what the BW DLC system is capable of.

Formes would be even more iffy but, if there's a space for them like people are saying, they might come into play, most likely without an altered sprite though. Like the new Kyurem formes having Kyurem's sprite, but keeping their typing/stats.

Originally Posted by Fat Miscellaneous

I'm quite annoyed really. The publishers really are pushing the whole "milking" stage too far. I'm sure B/W #2 will be distinct enough from B/W #1 to give people a reason to buy them also, however I'm also certain that B/W # 2 will be different from each other to give a reason for people to buy both also. Basically; to get the most out of Gen V and to have every available options in the game mechanics you're going to have to buy 4 games. And then they're probably going to remake R/S/E (2 games probably), I'm sure buying 6 games for one generation is a bit too much to ask even for the most dedicated fan.

Or get a friend. I never felt any need to buy anything other than one version and the 3rd game. The only reason I have all the games is because I constantly get them as gifts. I'd never spend money on basically the same game. Yellow, Crystal, & Emerald did enough different that it kept my interest. I was disappointed with Platinum overall but BW2 being a sequel gives my high hopes for it.

If I want to complete my Pokedex or see all the multiplayer functions, I'll just play with one of my college roommates. The version differences are pretty minor in the long run. Only available Pokemon & mentions of *insert legendary Pokemon here* getting replaced by *insert other legendary Pokemon here* are different, with the exception of White Forest/Black City & Appearance/Music/Gym Leader changes of Opelucid City. You and your wallet's better off just looking up the clips on YouTube if you really need to see them.

Since these games are actual sequels, just be glad they didn't release a 3rd game and then the sequels.

[deluge]

For backwards compatibility we only need that the features and Pokemon of BW work with BW2. BW2 can (and certainly will) have features BW doesn't have and still be backwards compatible.