Balanced Hackmons - Page 9

Bugdomking · Mar 29th, 2012, 12:45:06 AM

If there was an underpowered tier, there would have to be some restrictions on the tier. Species Clause, perhaps, Ability Clause, maybe even a Move Clause.

I don't know.

ElectivireRocks · Mar 29th, 2012, 7:02:35 AM

Any good Serene Grace abuser?

Serene Grace+Sacred Fire is incredibly powerful on paper.
Scald can be used if Flash Fire is too popular.

Also No guard+Sing/Inferno/Zap Cannon/Dynamic Punch makes for a good status plataform and gets past Sap Sipper if you want to sleep something.

megados · Mar 29th, 2012, 7:10:24 AM

Why not use spor instead of sing

ElectivireRocks · Mar 29th, 2012, 7:27:30 AM

As I said, No guard + Sing to get past Sap Sipper.

Tetrinity · Mar 29th, 2012, 7:58:44 AM

May as well use Hypnosis over Sing. More PP and you aren't blocked by Soundproof. Not that Soundproof is at all common, but Hypnosis has no real downside with No Guard compared to Sing, so...

Vemane · Mar 29th, 2012, 9:45:52 AM

If showdown decided to work, illusion would be fun.

put shedinja in the last spot and give illusion to slacking or something. As they try and residual you are free to bellyspeed sweep. If blissey comes in the illusion blocks imposter

Nobody is gunna be attacking shedinja so the the illuion won't be broken. Everyobe will just run around trying to toxic the bitch before it 1hkos

Skyshayde · Mar 29th, 2012, 10:05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

If showdown decided to work, illusion would be fun.

put shedinja in the last spot and give illusion to slacking or something. As they try and residual you are free to bellyspeed sweep. If blissey comes in the illusion blocks imposter

Nobody is gunna be attacking shedinja so the the illuion won't be broken. Everyobe will just run around trying to toxic the bitch before it 1hkos

This post is win, that'd be hilarious.

blasphemy1 · Mar 29th, 2012, 1:08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jamashawalker

I agree I would like an underpowered tier, but that would be hard to set up. Because people will still run the same sets just with different pokes. The only reason giratina has such a high usage is because its the bulkiest pokemon in the game. And if we had an underpowered tier people would just use the next bulkiest pokemon with the same sets as giratina.

Certainly its typing has something to do with its usage (immune to Extremespeed), its decent speed, and the fact it doesn't have a paltry attacking stat. When you go down the list of next bulkiest Pokemon, they don't fill the same shoes. Not even close.

Scoopapa · Mar 29th, 2012, 2:14:33 PM

I personally like Poison Heal + Coil a lot, for a number of reasons:

1. Poison Protects you from all sorts of Spore, even with Mold Breaker (which magicbounce does not)
2. Coil helps against Huge Power gigas very well.
3. Poison relies on your item, so Blissey gains nothing from it. Typically I use Sacred Fire as a coverage move, Since the burn is somewhat crucial for outstalling lefties blissey.
4. Gaining 12.5% each turn along with def boosts can make it hard for Shedinja to finish you off, while you can go for sacred fire burns.
5. Protect fucks with Copytail strategies somewhat.

Traditional phazing works against it, of course, but there are worse things to be stopped by in hackmons. Im not sure what the best user of this stratis, though, since back when i was doing this Rock Arceus could hold a toxic orb on PS, lol. Normal Arceus might work well, if you accept damaging Giratina as a lost cause. Unfortunately Ghost/Dragon type STAB makes it hard to break past Blissey. Perhaps Palkia could work too, using Water STAB to avoid Blissey.

Quiver Dance is useable with this strat, too, but helps less vs. Extremespeed, and no sacred fire.

DDRMaster · Mar 29th, 2012, 3:01:55 PM

Well anything that gets STAB on Sacred Fire can't be Burned, so that wouldn't help much with Blissey. Palkia seems like it could work well, but Contrary Dragon-types will run right through it. I then thought of Dialga but I realized that it can't be Poisoned.

Edit: Copycat+Dragon Tail shouldn't work because Copycat can't copy Dragon Tail. I'm not sure if that glitch exists on PS.

**verbatim** · Mar 29th, 2012, 4:13:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DDRMaster

Well anything that gets STAB on Sacred Fire can't be Burned, so that wouldn't help much with Blissey. Palkia seems like it could work well, but Contrary Dragon-types will run right through it. I then thought of Dialga but I realized that it can't be Poisoned.

Edit: Copycat+Dragon Tail shouldn't work because Copycat can't copy Dragon Tail. I'm not sure if that glitch exists on PS.

It has been fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Vemane

If showdown decided to work, illusion would be fun.

put shedinja in the last spot and give illusion to slacking or something. As they try and residual you are free to bellyspeed sweep. If blissey comes in the illusion blocks imposter

Nobody is gunna be attacking shedinja so the the illuion won't be broken. Everyobe will just run around trying to toxic the bitch before it 1hkos

The only big issues I have with this (meaning its viable) is that you need to send in Slaking on a faint (as opposed to switching in on an attack) and that +6 Slaking without Pure Power actually fails to ohko Giratina with Shadow Sneak (its that bulky, for reference, slaking would have about 2016 attack).

windwolf777 · Mar 29th, 2012, 8:44:28 PM

I couldnt save my team. Any advice on just a general 6 member team on what's good ?

benbass · Mar 29th, 2012, 10:37:49 PM

i use a no guard excadrill with horn drill(to ensure a win in a battle that always hits)
and no wondertomb isnt

MajorGambit · Mar 29th, 2012, 11:58:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat benbass

i use a no guard excadrill with horn drill(to ensure a win in a battle that always hits)
and no wondertomb isnt

Except that OHKO moves are banned...

Groudon ex · Mar 30th, 2012, 4:28:47 AM

Dialga @ Lum Berry
Trait: Serene Grace
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Shift Gear
- Iron Head
- Substitute
- Recover

This is quite a fun set to abuse Serene Grace. Despite many considering it cheap, flinch-hax is an effective way of killing things. This Dialga set can pull off the strategy exceptionally well. With a bit of luck, you could end up killing literally anything. The partial Steel typing is incredibly useful as it provides a resistance to Extremespeed.

Omnigross266 · Mar 30th, 2012, 8:50:09 AM

This is a list of pokemon that are not be OHKO'd by +6 Pure Power Slaking's ExtremeSpeed (Excluding immunities) :

Probopass
Bastiodon
Regirock
Aggron (11% chance to 2HKO.)
Lairon
Aron
Steelix

That is a list of 7 pokemon, none of which are competitively useable. That prover, people, that Belly Drum Slaking has no useable hard counters.

DDRMaster · Mar 30th, 2012, 9:00:46 AM

I have a feeling all of those Pokemon die to a Mach Punch, anyway, except maybe Steelix. It's clear that the only way to kill Slaking is either with a Prankster (for Spore) Ghost-type that can take a Shadow Sneak or a faster Pokemon with Extremespeed.

Pikapwnd · Mar 30th, 2012, 9:54:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Omnigross266

This is a list of pokemon that are not be OHKO'd by +6 Pure Power Slaking's ExtremeSpeed (Excluding immunities) :

Probopass
Bastiodon
Regirock
Aggron (11% chance to 2HKO.)
Lairon
Aron
Steelix

That is a list of 7 pokemon, none of which are competitively useable. That prover, people, that Belly Drum Slaking has no useable hard counters.

What abouta blissey w/ slaking's defenses?

akela · Mar 30th, 2012, 10:08:19 AM

Did everyone forget about Haze? Red Card?

It is quite unlikely that a Slaking (or team) will have anyway to get another Belly Drum off.

The Reptile · Mar 30th, 2012, 10:40:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Omnigross266

Belly Drum Slaking has no useable hard counters.

Sturdy Shedinja

Unless they have Mold Breaker, but I haven't seen many BD Slakings that pack Mold Breaker (that, and Huge/Pure Power is better almost 99% of the time)

Omnigross266 · Mar 30th, 2012, 11:07:29 AM

^Good point. But that way, any 'mon who can KO it with sturdy who switches in on the BD/a death can take the ES and KO. I'm searching for a 'mon that can counter BD Slaking without using the ability slot.

ElectivireRocks · Mar 30th, 2012, 11:19:19 AM

Bulky Ghost types with Prankster Heart Swap are 100% counters to BellyPower Slaking.

Omnigross266 · Mar 30th, 2012, 11:23:42 AM

^Good, but they have to have more speed than Slaking or it will go first and cripple them with Shadow Sneak.

ElectivireRocks · Mar 30th, 2012, 11:38:13 AM

Prankster Giratina-A with a +speed nature outspeeds base 100's with a neutral one so as long as Slaking doesn't run +speed Giratina-A will always win.

Would +6 unstabbed Pursuit from Giratina-A be enough to OHKO Slaking if it switches out?
If so I'd run heart Swap/Extremespeed/Mach Punch/Pursuit.

The best way to deal with it is probably checking it with faster Ghost types. Prankster Gengar with Encore and Destiny Bond can switch into Belly Drum or ES and cripple/KO Slaking.

AfroThunderRule · Mar 30th, 2012, 1:00:33 PM

What is the most common ability on Slaking anyways? Pure/Huge Power? I'm asking because I've seen some Slaking use Scrappy meaning even Giratina loses to +6 Silk Scarf Extremespeed iirc. :(

Mar 29th, 2012, 7:10:24 AM	#203
megados Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 251 For Narnia	Why not use spor instead of sing __________________ The bird of Hermes is my name eating my wings to make me tame.

Mar 29th, 2012, 7:58:44 AM	#205
Tetrinity Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 261 Cardiff, Wales	May as well use Hypnosis over Sing. More PP and you aren't blocked by Soundproof. Not that Soundproof is at all common, but Hypnosis has no real downside with No Guard compared to Sing, so... __________________ Scramble Challanges Platinum, Medium-Hard Difficulty (Champion!) White, Obnoxious Difficulty (two updates)

Mar 29th, 2012, 2:14:33 PM	#209
Scoopapa Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 922	I personally like Poison Heal + Coil a lot, for a number of reasons: 1. Poison Protects you from all sorts of Spore, even with Mold Breaker (which magicbounce does not) 2. Coil helps against Huge Power gigas very well. 3. Poison relies on your item, so Blissey gains nothing from it. Typically I use Sacred Fire as a coverage move, Since the burn is somewhat crucial for outstalling lefties blissey. 4. Gaining 12.5% each turn along with def boosts can make it hard for Shedinja to finish you off, while you can go for sacred fire burns. 5. Protect fucks with Copytail strategies somewhat. Traditional phazing works against it, of course, but there are worse things to be stopped by in hackmons. Im not sure what the best user of this stratis, though, since back when i was doing this Rock Arceus could hold a toxic orb on PS, lol. Normal Arceus might work well, if you accept damaging Giratina as a lost cause. Unfortunately Ghost/Dragon type STAB makes it hard to break past Blissey. Perhaps Palkia could work too, using Water STAB to avoid Blissey. Quiver Dance is useable with this strat, too, but helps less vs. Extremespeed, and no sacred fire. __________________ List of Topic Leader Posts from early CAP4 discussion threads Read these if you haven't yet and are working on CAP4 Last edited by Scoopapa; Mar 29th, 2012 at 2:33:26 PM.

Mar 29th, 2012, 8:44:28 PM	#212
windwolf777 Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 164 Inside the Fire, in the Asylum, chilling with The Animal, gettin Down With the Sicknesses	I couldnt save my team. Any advice on just a general 6 member team on what's good ? __________________ http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463764 Why not try hackmon ? Where nothing is impossible and only the strong survive FREE ORIGINAL THUNDER BRO........ AND DRILL

Mar 29th, 2012, 10:37:49 PM	#213
benbass Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1 Otho,IA	i use a no guard excadrill with horn drill(to ensure a win in a battle that always hits) and no wondertomb isnt __________________ From a conversation between Lady Astor and Winston Churchill: Lady Astor:"If I were your wife I'd put poison in your coffee." Winston Churchill:"If I were your husband I'd drink it!

Mar 29th, 2012, 12:45:06 AM	#201
Bugdomking Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 91	If there was an underpowered tier, there would have to be some restrictions on the tier. Species Clause, perhaps, Ability Clause, maybe even a Move Clause. I don't know.

Mar 29th, 2012, 7:02:35 AM	#202
ElectivireRocks Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 270	Any good Serene Grace abuser? Serene Grace+Sacred Fire is incredibly powerful on paper. Scald can be used if Flash Fire is too popular. Also No guard+Sing/Inferno/Zap Cannon/Dynamic Punch makes for a good status plataform and gets past Sap Sipper if you want to sleep something.

Mar 29th, 2012, 7:27:30 AM	#204
ElectivireRocks Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 270	As I said, No guard + Sing to get past Sap Sipper.

Mar 29th, 2012, 9:45:52 AM	#206
Vemane Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 349	If showdown decided to work, illusion would be fun. put shedinja in the last spot and give illusion to slacking or something. As they try and residual you are free to bellyspeed sweep. If blissey comes in the illusion blocks imposter Nobody is gunna be attacking shedinja so the the illuion won't be broken. Everyobe will just run around trying to toxic the bitch before it 1hkos

Mar 30th, 2012, 4:28:47 AM	#215
Groudon ex Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 148 Blighty	Dialga @ Lum Berry Trait: Serene Grace Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Shift Gear - Iron Head - Substitute - Recover This is quite a fun set to abuse Serene Grace. Despite many considering it cheap, flinch-hax is an effective way of killing things. This Dialga set can pull off the strategy exceptionally well. With a bit of luck, you could end up killing literally anything. The partial Steel typing is incredibly useful as it provides a resistance to Extremespeed.

Mar 30th, 2012, 8:50:09 AM	#216
Omnigross266 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 34	This is a list of pokemon that are not be OHKO'd by +6 Pure Power Slaking's ExtremeSpeed (Excluding immunities) : Probopass Bastiodon Regirock Aggron (11% chance to 2HKO.) Lairon Aron Steelix That is a list of 7 pokemon, none of which are competitively useable. That prover, people, that Belly Drum Slaking has no useable hard counters. __________________ Peaked at No. 1 in the 'Hackmons' category on Pokemon Showdown on 18.3.2012.

Mar 30th, 2012, 10:08:19 AM	#219
akela Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,134 Minnesota	Did everyone forget about Haze? Red Card? It is quite unlikely that a Slaking (or team) will have anyway to get another Belly Drum off.

Mar 30th, 2012, 11:07:29 AM	#221
Omnigross266 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 34	^Good point. But that way, any 'mon who can KO it with sturdy who switches in on the BD/a death can take the ES and KO. I'm searching for a 'mon that can counter BD Slaking without using the ability slot. __________________ Peaked at No. 1 in the 'Hackmons' category on Pokemon Showdown on 18.3.2012.

Mar 30th, 2012, 11:19:19 AM	#222
ElectivireRocks Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 270	Bulky Ghost types with Prankster Heart Swap are 100% counters to BellyPower Slaking.

Mar 30th, 2012, 11:23:42 AM	#223
Omnigross266 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 34	^Good, but they have to have more speed than Slaking or it will go first and cripple them with Shadow Sneak. __________________ Peaked at No. 1 in the 'Hackmons' category on Pokemon Showdown on 18.3.2012.

Mar 30th, 2012, 11:38:13 AM	#224
ElectivireRocks Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 270	Prankster Giratina-A with a +speed nature outspeeds base 100's with a neutral one so as long as Slaking doesn't run +speed Giratina-A will always win. Would +6 unstabbed Pursuit from Giratina-A be enough to OHKO Slaking if it switches out? If so I'd run heart Swap/Extremespeed/Mach Punch/Pursuit. The best way to deal with it is probably checking it with faster Ghost types. Prankster Gengar with Encore and Destiny Bond can switch into Belly Drum or ES and cripple/KO Slaking. Last edited by ElectivireRocks; Mar 30th, 2012 at 11:54:43 AM.

Mar 30th, 2012, 1:00:33 PM	#225
AfroThunderRule I suck. Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 415 New York City	What is the most common ability on Slaking anyways? Pure/Huge Power? I'm asking because I've seen some Slaking use Scrappy meaning even Giratina loses to +6 Silk Scarf Extremespeed iirc. :(